Internet Censorship Continues Due to "Everybody Draw Mohammad Day"

You have provided no sources that there was any level of violence or threats that created a spontaneous outpouring of public indignation.

articles.latimes.com...

news.bbc.co.uk...

abcnews.go.com...

Here are a few sources of violence and threats that created a spontaneous outpouring of public indignation.

Originally posted by rationaluser
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

www.youtube.com...

According to you this is a "Peaceful protest" ha don't make me laugh do you know people were in that embassy when it was on fire try telling me no-one was hurt in that "freedom of expression" you're just digging a bigger hole to bury yourself in, if ever there was a religious apologist hiding behind the guise of an "agnostic" it would be you.

Wow a two year old YouTube Video?

Gee I guess it will be safe to walk to the store today afterall?

By the way do you think Christians would protest if a Muslim Newspaper drew cartoons of Jesus flying a U.S. Airforce Plane dropping bombs on women and children?

So in reality, you don't have current sources for what is essentially a religious fued that you are taking part in even though you claim not to be religious?

Alrighty then.

So if the last major demonstrations occured over 2 years ago, in response to what a large portion of the world finds culturally and religiously offensive your idea of making this all better, is trying to prod them into reacting again to prove what point?

Once again who out there feels a need to draw cartoons of mohamed for artistic and not political reasons?

Anyone?

Who out there is embarking on a career as an artist specializing in pictures of Mohamed because there is a market for them.

Anyone?

Yeah in fact I want to keep digging the hole deeper, as it will serve as a nice fox hole to protect myself from the radicalized fools on both sides of the issue.

However having said that, in order for someone to protest an action, someone first has to take an action, so who was that?

Who actually chose to provoke a reaction?

Which came first the chicken or the egg.

Is the egg to blame for the chicken, or is the chicken to blame for the egg.

Hint child support cases don't demand that the children pay the parents.

Here's your original claim:

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Here in lies the conspiracy, it is Christian, and Jewish fundamentalists who are trying to provoke a greater confrontation to lead to an even greater Holy Crusade beyond those currently being waged in Afghanistan and Iraq, and these groups are being prodded to do this by the Military Industrial Complex and the Banking Cartel that finances and profits off of the debt that war creates.

Show me how the "Military Industrial Complex and the Banking Cartel" prodded Christian and Jewish fundamentalists into "draw mohammed day" in order to further a holy crusade.

Originally posted by Cabalis

You have provided no sources that there was any level of violence or threats that created a spontaneous outpouring of public indignation.

articles.latimes.com...

news.bbc.co.uk...

abcnews.go.com...

Here are a few sources of violence and threats that created a spontaneous outpouring of public indignation.

This is all based off of two incidents by all accounts so far, one that resulted in a random act of violence, and one that resulted in a random threat of violence,

No the outpouring was not spontaneous as the Draw a Cartoon day happened much later in one case and years later in the other case, after publicizing and preplaning and organizing it which is of course not what the word spontaneous means.

Words really do have precise meanings people.

Grab a dictionary, and learn what they mean.

Clearly preplanning and orchestration, publicity and coordinating went into promoting a grass roots response and that is not spontaneous.

Had people taken to the streets the day of the South Park controversy entirely based on an independent reaction arrived entirely on their own, that would have been spontaneous.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Here's your original claim:

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Here in lies the conspiracy, it is Christian, and Jewish fundamentalists who are trying to provoke a greater confrontation to lead to an even greater Holy Crusade beyond those currently being waged in Afghanistan and Iraq, and these groups are being prodded to do this by the Military Industrial Complex and the Banking Cartel that finances and profits off of the debt that war creates.

Show me how the "Military Industrial Complex and the Banking Cartel" prodded Christian and Jewish fundamentalists into "draw mohammed day" in order to further a holy crusade.

Once again show me you know what the word conspiracy means.

Show me you are capable of honest debate and have a mind to learn.

Or show me that they didn't do this.

So far you haven't been able to demonstrate you even know the basic meaning of critical words to the debate, or even have the propensity to learn those rudimentary ellements.

Challenging a person to teach a person incapable or undesirous of learning is rather redundant.

You're avoiding the issue, please answer traditionaldrummer's question. Show us the trail of breadcrumbs, connect the dots from the military industrial complex to Draw Mohammad Day.

[edit on 24-5-2010 by dontblink]

[edit on 24-5-2010 by dontblink]

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Challenging a person to teach a person incapable or undesirous of learning is rather redundant.

No more strawmen, no more ad hominem, no more ducking your way out of it.

You made the claim. Back it up with evidence please.

[edit on 24-5-2010 by traditionaldrummer]

reply to post by dontblink


I have already touched on the issue and displayed things like the Carlysle Group and references to Public Records where Christian-Judean concepts and words involving the words Holy Crusade have been used.

I have been mentioning these things to people who don't know the meaning of the words: Spontaneous and Conspiracy.

The fact of the matter is that you aren't of a mind to investigate the conspiracies, or discuss them.

You can't even identify a base conspiracy when they are transpiring, and Cartoon Day is a conspiracy.

If you can't see how the Military Industrial Complex and Banks have profited off of Middle East Wars, you are in fact likely living in an alternative reality, where real world intellectual events, aren't allowed to intrude in illusionary emotional events.

In conspiracies you look at those with motive, and opportunity and the most to gain, with the assumption that no action is a random event, especially when it requires a massive amount of preplanning and coordination.

Who stands to gain the most off of inflaming tensions between the Christian West and the Muslim East?

The military industrial complex and the banks, as that is who has benefited the most off of existing tensions.

Would these extremely wealthy and powerful entities miss an opportunity to fan the flames and create more tension?

Not on your life.

That's all simple logic, and debating people who don't even know dictionary meanings of the words that they are employing, is not debating people who have any logic.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Challenging a person to teach a person incapable or undesirous of learning is rather redundant.

No more strawmen, no more ad hominem, no more ducking your way out of it.

You made the claim. Back it up with evidence please.

[edit on 24-5-2010 by traditionaldrummer]

Actually you are going no where fast my friend, why don't you go back to my very original post in this thread and answer my original questions to you?

Which you still haven't done.

Questions are a control factor, the person asking the questions is in control and all you are simply trying to do is take control of the debate through asking questions you have already displayed you have no genuine or honest interest in the answers of, to deflect away from the questions that have been put to you.

You have failed to make any point thus far in the debate, in regards to your opinions, so it's natural you would want to keep deflecting away from that.

Once again, show some genuine sincerity in your approach and I am well known for discussing very complex conspiracies in intricate detail on ATS.

I will be happy to discuss the conspiracy with you, once if and providing you can admit to the fact that the Cartoon Day was preplanned and coordinated and orchestrated.

If you can't display you understand what a conspiracy is, then demanding to talk about something you can't even define is simply a form of deflection.

Thanks.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Challenging a person to teach a person incapable or undesirous of learning is rather redundant.

No more strawmen, no more ad hominem, no more ducking your way out of it.

You made the claim. Back it up with evidence please.

[edit on 24-5-2010 by traditionaldrummer]

Actually you are going no where fast my friend, why don't you go back to my very original post in this thread and answer my original questions to you?

Just as I said before:

Prove it, or you made it up.

Apparently you made it up.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Was Draw Mohammad day planned? Absolutely, there's a Facebook event for it and everything. It's the brainchild of cartoonist Molly Norris. It's purpose? To provide a rebuttal of islamist threats made to the creators of South Park, Trey Parker and Matt Stone. Does this constitute a conspiracy? Of sorts...

con·spir·a·cy [kuhn-spir-uh-see]
1.the act of conspiring.
2.an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.
3.a combination of persons for a secret, unlawful, or evil purpose: He joined the conspiracy to overthrow the government.
4.Law. an agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act.
5.any concurrence in action; combination in bringing about a given result

I assume you're referring to definition 5 which is the broadest definintion of the word however an event created on a whim by a cartoonist that simply became viral due to the popularity of an entertainment television show, the general rebelliousness of youth and the aversion of American's to having their right to free expression trampled on by terrorists is hardly the militarey industrial complex at work.

I've decided to meet you half way on this, I'm willing to accept that draw Mohammad day is a conspiracy in a very general sense in that it was a planned event. However, I refuse to believe that this planned event was drafted for the express purpose of furthering a protracted religious war with Islam; not without some evidence.

It should be noted as well, the Koran does not expressly forbid depictions of Mohammad, only certain traditions and sects within Islam (such as Sunni Islam) "generally" prohibit depictions.

Also, why would the US military industrial complex want a war with Islam when so much of the US foreign interests lie in fostering lasting and positive relationships with nations like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Turkey, and the UAE?

Words really do have precise meanings people.

Grab a dictionary, and learn what they mean.

Clearly preplanning and orchestration, publicity and coordinating went into promoting a grass roots response and that is not spontaneous.

Had people taken to the streets the day of the South Park controversy entirely based on an independent reaction arrived entirely on their own, that would have been spontaneous.

I do know what spontaneous means, thank you.

The initial response by the artist calling for an organized "Draw Mohammad Day" was indeed, spontaneous. Of course pre-planning, orchestration, publicity and coordination had to go into an event that called for numerous people across the globe to participate.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


Wow those are real scientific standards you are employing.

Trying to dominate me my friend, is something you will never be capable of, so lets go back to my original post...

So like here is the common sense question.

If the Islamic World tells the Judean-Christian World it's forbidden to jump off of a cliff, is some attention seeking moron on Face Book going to come up with "Jump Off a Cliff Day"?

How many people who normally have no interest in cliffs, or jumping, or jumping off cliffs are then going to jump off of a cliff out of spite?

This was not about freedom of press, this was about freedom to be intollerant and antagonistic towards others.

Where you failed to answer those questions, then lets go to my second post...

Where you failed to address this...

It is a button pushing response, where people (Judean-Christians) have been goated into (not by Islamists but other Judean-Christians) to do something that they would normally never do.

If you weren't inclined to draw a picture of Mohamed without someone pushing an emotional hot button that then prompted you to do it, you are then engaging in the exact kind of behavoir that is being used to illustrate why you should be a pawn that allows you to be exploited emotionally.

Then lets jump to my thrid post where you failed to address this...

So while some are worried that those in the Islamic East are pawns to a manipulative Islamic Agenda, they are busy themselves falling prey to a manipulative Judean Christian Agenda that is aimed at getting people to be confrontational and fight one another over these issues through emotional exploitation.

It’s called divide and conquer warfare and there is absolutely no virtue in it whatsoever, nor is there any virtue in letting others pick the time and place and nature of your battles in life because it suits their agenda.

I have never had cause to draw a cartoon of a religious figure in my life, and the truth is that the people who drew these cartoons did so with the intent to be disrespectful and offensive to others, not to ensure their own freedom of expression to express something that they normally would never, if they hadn’t been manipulated in mass to do so by agent provocateurs promoting an agenda.

So then lets jump on to my fourth post where you failed to address these...

Alright, name me a Muslim who has actually intimidated you?

Can you?

I can't think of one who has tried to intimidate me, not personally.

Political satirists using cartoon art to make politicized points are in fact political satirists using cartoon are to make politicized points. The politics of all religions tend to be deadly. How does one draw a character of a person who’s face is lost to history and why?

These events of Muslims threatening and intimidating non Muslims are highly exaggerated by bigots and religious xenophobes either for the purpose of religious politics or to fuel the deadly and very costly military industrial complex.

In reality they aren’t threatening or attacking us, we are threatening and attacking them.

Whether people drew cartoons of Mohamed as a goof, or to purposefully inflame passions still shows poor judgment and questionable taste, whether you choose to consider that or not, and it is highly doubtful any such people are displaying there renderings on their living room walls. In fact chances are they drew those pictures for the sole purpose of being disrespectful, threatening, and belligerent towards other people’s sensibilities.

Not the type of behavior I would be proud of or consider wise.

So my questions to you is which Muslim has personally threatened you personally. Which wall of your home do you proudly feel a need to display a cartoon rendering of someone’s religious prophet based solely on your imagination of what that individual should look like?

With all the problems are nation has, that people engage in this kind of nonsensical and counterproductive behavior as a means to make a ‘point’ is utterly amazing.

So lets then go on to my fifth post where you fail to address these...

Everything is a conspiracy my friend.

The fact that you haven't actually found opportunity to directly answer any of my sincere and earnest questions actually illustrates that.

The truth is that because these things don't directly effect you, because these things aren't actually being perpetrated against you, all you can do is actually speak of other things, or have to speak to the fact, that you can't actually answer the questions I have put to you, because you have no real answer for them.

It is all a conspiracy and a manipulation, one that in fact dates back thousands of years and is still on going.

People love to create drama, and spectacle where there is in fact none, and they are manipulted into doing that, by people who do conspire to take advantage of that aspect of human nature, for power, control and profit.

So lets go on to my sixth post where you have failed to address these...

Who though has in fact been violently killed for drawing cartoons of Mohamed?

How is antagonizing people further actually going to curtail these undocumented and alledged incidents of violence and murder?

There are in fact people from all religions, and nationalities who commit isolated acts of violence in the name of God and Country.

Should we hold whole nations to account and whole religions to account for the random and isolated acts of a few people?

As far as I know a very limited group of people including Salmon Rushdie and a European Cartoonist have had death threats made against them for literary and satarical works that a small number of Muslim extremists have taken objection too.

Small number being the key word there.

To my knowledge neither of these people have been killed.

As someone who has spoken out against all religions in sincere and questioning ways I can tell you I have been threatened and called names by Christians, and Jews but have never been threatened or called names by a Muslim for questioning or speaking out against organized religion.

Shouldn't we also be applying the same standards to militant Christians and Jews as well as Muslims and contriving to make social statements through antagonistic means towards these other sects as well?

Here in lies the conspiracy, it is Christian, and Jewish fundamentalists who are trying to provoke a greater confrontation to lead to an even greater Holy Crusade beyond those currently being waged in Afghanistan and Iraq, and these groups are being prodded to do this by the Military Industrial Complex and the Banking Cartel that finances and profits off of the debt that war creates.

Yes in fact I do say it is all a conspiracy.

Where there is motive and opportunity and profit to be made, and there are motive, opportunities and profits to be made off of fanning and fueling and exploiting confrontations amongst the religious minded, there are going to be conspiratorial minded people who will want to conspire to take advantage of those opportunities and profits to be made.

To think otherwise is not wise.

The Internet is rife with organized and paid special interest groups and government entities that seek to promote and exploit and profit off of these things.

To think otherwise is also not wise.

I only say it is a conspiracy, because people in fact do conspire to do things like Cartoon day.

It didn't happen by spontaneous random accident now did

So by the way we still haven't gotten to what you are claiming I originally said in the thread, even though I have displayed all the things I have said in the thread.

So when you understand that debates are about a quid pro quo of answering and asking questions and can actually answer ONE question which you have failed to do, you will have earned the right to ask more questions.

In the meantime you are simply trying to continue to deflect away from a long list of questions you have failed to answer in any direct or honest way, while at the same time displaying you don't even comprehend what the word conspiracy means.

All the while trying to employ two sets of standards for evidence, absolutely none for your own opinions, and something carved in Stone by either the Government or God for everyone else's opinions.

Seriously.

Some do want a war with Islam, neo-cons and many evangelical Christians have jumped on the band wagon of war against Islam.

These Types are perfectly tickled pink over this incitement over these cartoons.
Neo cons have been peddling the war of the “clash of civilization” for years now.

Just because this con man Obama—Obama-Con— sprouts pious platitudes doesn’t mean whatever dark force in the US power structure started all this Islamic strife since 911, has gone away.

reply to post by dontblink


Very well said.
Star for you.



[edit on 24-5-2010 by Cabalis]

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

Wow those are real scientific standards you are employing.

We aren't in a lab

Trying to dominate me my friend, is something you will never be capable of, so lets go back to my original post...

I have no interest in dominating you. I just wanted you to back up your incredible assertion, and you won't, because you can't.

In the meantime you are simply trying to continue to deflect

Paging Dr. Freud! We've got a felonious case of projection here!

Sorry, I'm not playing your game of answer a question with a question so that you can weasel out of supporting your conspiracy claims. I hope you brought a really big ladder because that hole you're digging just keeps geting bigger.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


Oh it's easy to figure out a conspiracy you just follow the money from SouthPark to Commedy Central to VIACOM!

Tied in with the bix six corporations, associated with vast military industrial and banking interests.

Are you guys really this oblivious to the ways of the world.

So by the investigative work of people trying to counter my claims of a conspiracy they have actually been kind enough to display the conspricay that they can't see, by providing me the basic facts to follow the money.

This all stemmed from a controversy over a South Park episode evidently, whose episodes air on Commedy Central that VIACOM then wanted to censor, to create a media sensation, and to employ the masses who have the lowest common denominator threshhold for entertainment and news to manipulate them by their emotions which is all they pretty much think with to create a movement aimed at further inflaming tensions between Judean-Christian Westerners and Muslim Easterners, while deflecting the blame for it away from VIACOM by getting brain dead cartoon fans to do their dirty work for them.

See how that works, of course you don't!

I do though.

As I said the Military Industrial Complex and the Bankers manipulated the whole thing, and all you have to do is follow the money and the corporate bunny trail to figure that out.

It's very elementary, I hope this debate hasn't kept you from enjoying other great cartoons like Tom and Jerry, and Bugs Bunny!

By the way you haven't been able to answer one question put to you.

Originally posted by rationaluser
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

www.youtube.com...

According to you this is a "Peaceful protest" ha don't make me laugh do you know people were in that embassy when it was on fire try telling me no-one was hurt in that "freedom of expression" you're just digging a bigger hole to bury yourself in, if ever there was a religious apologist hiding behind the guise of an "agnostic" it would be you.

More danish embassies were stormed and set on fire. This year the cartoonist Westergaard survived anaxe attack by a Somali

Really, it is so hard to believe that some people just can't "let go". "Peaceful" is relative. Banging on a door with an axe is according to danish standards,not peaceful. Why not join one of the "We hate Westergaard" facebook groups instead. Sure they are entitled to "freedom of speech" all they want


Timeline of the JyllandsPosten Muhammad cartoons

Facebook has 20 million users worldwide, is worth billions of dollars and, if internet sources are to be believed, was started by the CIA.

The social networking phenomenon started as a way of American college students to keep in touch. It is rapidly catching up with MySpace, and has left others like Bebo in its wake.

But there is a dark side to the success story that's been spreading across the blogosphere. A complex but riveting Big Brother-type conspiracy theory which links Facebook to the CIA and the US Department of Defence.

The CIA is, though, using a Facebook group to recruit staff for its very sexy sounding National Clandestine Service.

Checking out the job ads
does require a Facebook login, so if you haven't joined the site - or are worried that CIA spooks will start following you home from work -check them out on the agency's own site.



The story starts once Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg had launched, after the dorm room drama that's led to the current court case.

Facebook's first round of venture capital funding ($US500,000) came from former Paypal CEO Peter Thiel. Author of anti-multicultural tome 'The Diversity Myth', he is also on the board of radical conservative group VanguardPAC.

The second round of funding into Facebook ($US12.7 million) came from venture capital firm Accel Partners. Its manager James Breyer was formerly chairman of the National Venture Capital Association, and served on the board with Gilman Louie, CEO of In-Q-Tel, a venture capital firm established by the Central Intelligence Agency in 1999. One of the company's key areas of expertise are in "data mining technologies".

GlobalResearch.com

You say this was all coordinated through FaceBook huh?

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
So by the investigative work of people trying to counter my claims of a conspiracyAs I said the Military Industrial Complex and the Bankers manipulated the whole thing, and all you have to do is follow the money and the corporate bunny trail to figure that out.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Here in lies the conspiracy, it is Christian, and Jewish fundamentalists who are trying to provoke a greater confrontation to lead to an even greater Holy Crusade beyond those currently being waged in Afghanistan and Iraq, and these groups are being prodded to do this by the Military Industrial Complex and the Banking Cartel that finances and profits off of the debt that war creates.

Show us how the "Military Industrial Complex and the Banking Cartel" prodded Christian and Jewish fundamentalists into "draw mohammed day" in order to further a holy crusade.