Internet Censorship Continues Due to "Everybody Draw Mohammad Day"

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Which in fact they did instigate such things, since the whole thing originated through a corporate entity that they control.

That is... "if internet sources are to be believed".

Which sources? The ATS conspiracy theorist threads that claim Facebook is CIA?

Sorry, Father Doodoo and Rabbi Peepee are here telling me I have to go draw mohammed now and upload it to Facebook. I always do what they say and so does everyone else.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Which in fact they did instigate such things, since the whole thing originated through a corporate entity that they control.

That is... "if internet sources are to be believed".

Which sources? The ATS conspiracy theorist threads that claim Facebook is CIA?

Sorry, Father Doodoo and Rabbi Peepee are here telling me I have to go draw mohammed now and upload it to Facebook. I always do what they say and so does everyone else.

So once again you can't provide a source for something you have claimed, and need to deflect away again, by disrespecting ATS itself.

Can you even say why you are on ATS as a poster who provides no sources what so ever, and doesn't even know the definition of the word conspiracy, posting on highly inflamatory threads that promote intollerance and confrontation with others, that would benefit the Military Industrial Complex and their associated Bankers?

VIACOM happens to be an International Media Conglomerate that is connected through both its ownership and board of directors with major military suppliers and banks.

Researching it's board of directors and major preferred stock investors is a simple matter for anyone who wants to know those things.

They are all part of Public Records.





[edit on 24/5/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by traditionaldrummer

That's essentially the way a viral meme works. All viral memes are distributed and accepted through cultures, not mandated and controlled by institutions.

By the way since the United States is a multi-cultural state made up of ethnicities and nationalities of immigrants from around the world, what culture(s) do you imagine are at play here?

So once again you have failed to think out your own statements here, as the people most likely to Draw Mohamed to upset Muslims are from cultural backgrounds who have long been at odds with Islam.

These would primarily be the people from the other two sects of Abraham, the Christians and the Jews. Or people associated with the pro-war culture, the Military Industrial Complex.

So those would be your cultural ellements at play.

Additionally it was an institution VIACOM that created the programming that led to the controversy.

It was another institution Face Book that provided the venue for the people to react on a pre-planned day, in a pre-planned way. Which was done in a highly coordinated and publicized effort through other corporate owned institutions.

In fact I have identified every required ellement is in fact present and involved to warrant a serious consideration and investigation of the whole affair as being an orchestrated conspiracy from the beginning.

So not only are you failing to make logical arguments, you are in fact identifying the very elements that denote a conspiracy at play, while trying to claim that there is no conspiracy at play.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

So once again you can't provide a source for something you have claimed, and need to deflect away again, by disrespecting ATS itself.

I could source you to all those times I asked you for some evidence to back your claims, then you finally said it was only an opinion, but then you kept trying to prove it but still haven't.

I've really only claimed that this was not an organized conspiracy theory like you've described. That is, the military industrial complex manipulating fundie christians and jews to create a facebook event to further a holy war. Since I can't prove a negative and you can't prove your claim I suspect my contention holds.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
So once again you have failed to think out your own statements here, as the people most likely to Draw Mohamed to upset Muslims are from cultural backgrounds who have long been at odds with Islam.

These would primarily be the people from the other two sects of Abraham, the Christians and the Jews. Or people associated with the pro-war culture, the Military Industrial Complex.

Well, that's a mighty big assumption. Also, you left out the atheists and agnostics too, plus the nontheistic cartoonists and maybe even the liberal photoshop enthusiast. As long as we're making wild guesses, it might even be all a bunch of old chinese men with funny hats who drive with their blinkers on or possibly retired porn stars who went bald and are collecting welfare. I guess if we're just trying to figure things out on our own, really, anything goes.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.
Marcus Aurelius

This is simply a level of wisdom you either do not agree with or have yet to achieve.

Facts are nothing in reality but a series of opinions on circumstance.

You might also want to consider...

The wise are instructed by reason, average minds by experience, the stupid by necessity and the brute by instinct.
Marcus Tullius Cicero

And then ask yourself where those being manipulated into drawing a cartoon to make a political statmenet would fall into that above scale.

Of course then there is this to ponder...

I am not ashamed to confess that I am ignorant of what I do not know.
Marcus Tullius Cicero

Though the truth is, it appears this is more your style...

When you have no basis for an argument, abuse the plaintiff.
Marcus Tullius Cicero

In fact if you listen carefully to what people say they will tell you everything.

You have said you do not find ATS to be a source of credible information yet you post on ATS, so if I were to adopt your same reasoning, nothing you have said is credible because you post on ATS.

You refuse to entertain any opinion or perspective not your own, and ask for validation of those opinions and perspectives of others without any actual consideration of fairly considering or investigating them.

In short you have failed to provide any source to substantiate your opinions, so that anyone else might choose to adopt them, all the while rejecting any thing that is put to you on a constantly shifting scale you haven't applied to your own contentions and opinions.

Your opinions are in fact based on nothing but assumptions, while you discount others for assuming?

You cherry pick and avoid most questions put to you, and look to try to dominate those debating honestly in dishonest and disengenous ways.

As I asked before why exactly are you on ATS if you don't find it a credible source of information.

Why when you don't understand or even appreciate what the word conspiracy means.

Why when you can't actually participate honestly in the discussion that center on conspiracy are you here on ATS.

ATS is a conspiracy site.

In fact life is full of nothing but conspiracies, banks conspire to raise their fees and interests, oil companies conspire to fix prices, the government conspires to expand and grow it's powers, criminals conspire to break the law, men conspire to bed women, women conspire to marry men, advertising companies conspire to get people to purchase products.

This too is a conspiracy in which I have outlined the elements of it for you.

All the elements to the conspiracy are in place and have been identified for you.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
And then ask yourself where those being manipulated into drawing a cartoon to make a political statmenet would fall into that above scale.

I don't care about the plausibility, I care whether you can substantiate it as a certainty. So far you've assembled some disparate facts to attempt to validate your argument, which is admirable, but failed to prove your original claim. We can tango around this uncomfortable fact indefinitely.

You have said you do not find ATS to be a source of credible information yet you post on ATS, so if I were to adopt your same reasoning, nothing you have said is credible because you post on ATS.

Actually, I did not say that. I suggested that possibly the unnamed "internet source" that we were expected to believe could have been ATS, since this is an anything-goes type site where you could expect someone to try to link the CIA to Facebook. I'm not certain what reasoning you're adopting (if any at all). You're simply throwing out yet another anything-goes unsupported hypothesis that we can only hope some other blogger doesn't pick up as factual.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


If you tried reversing your logic, you would see that you can't substantiate your position as a certainty, you can only hope that it is.

Rule number one in the Intelligence World is if there is a doubt in a given situation there is no doubt.

That this involves passions between religions, and was instigated by VIACOM and a highly coordinated effort carried out over Face Book creates a doubt because it does in fact play into the hands of the Military Industrial Complex.

Are we to believe that Face Book posters are more credible or intelligent on whole than ATS Members?

Do you really want to believe some random individual siezed on this opportunity as a matter of principle, conscious or vendetta?

That the only reward he/she/they sought was to inflame passions based on principle, conscious or vendetta?

That this recieved the attention of the Corporate Main Stream Media that then further promoted it?

The assumptions that you are rushing to, to form your opinion, ignore a whole lot of motive and opportunity and highly coordinated feat of logistics.

It seems to me you are afraid of the truth in how easy it is in fact to manipulate people in mass, even though a number of institutions commercial and governmental conspire to manipulate people towards conclusions and reactions every day.

Your reasoning abilities are as suspect as they are circumspect at this point, and your requests for additional information insincere since nothing posted on ATS or the Internet is a credible source of information to you.

So what are you suggesting, that I find a carrier pidgeon, and fasten some Library Books around his neck and tell him to land???

An intelligent person and reasoned person would in fact outline a real way for someone to provide them the actual information that they are looking for in a mode of delivery and a format that they would actually consider.

An unintelligent and unreasoned person will force people to play an exhaustive guessing game at arriving at what the they want by rejecting everything that they don't want once offered.

So in reality all you are doing is asking for things you plan to reject.

What would be the point of that?

Meanwhile you have displayed no genuine desire to even investigate the matter yourself.

So not only are you just essentially taunting and baiting others to indulge your ego, you aren't prepared to do any work yourself to arrive at all the details, and have already displayed that no one can meet your threshhold of consideration through the medium you are communicating with them in, and that you have a generally low opinion of this medium despite choosing to communicate in it yourself.

As I have said previously the only person you are in fact fooling here is your self friend.

All the elements to a conspiracy exist, there is motive, there is opportunity and the usual suspects are involved at various levels throughout.

Why you would not be investigating this further yourself is beyond me.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
That this involves passions between religions, and was instigated by VIACOM and a highly coordinated effort carried out over Face Book creates a doubt because it does in fact play into the hands of the Military Industrial Complex.

Sez U

A cursory Google search reveals this:

Mimi Sulpovar created her "Everybody Draw Mohammad" Facebook page on April 22 to protest what she calls the "manifestation of gradual silencing and subjugation" of free speech rights in the name of political correctness.

Why you would not be investigating this further yourself is beyond me.

Why you didn't check this out first before making up something about a huge military-religious manipulation conspiracy is beyond me.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


Yet who is this woman, which private investigator firm did you hire to search out her backgroud?

How many of her associates have you had similiarly investigated? Do you actually know who her associates are?

Who in fact posted this and what is that site's ownership? Who are they affliated with, what are the owners business and political associations?

I am deligbted after 7 pages of nonsensical requests, cherry picking over questions, and making rediculous demands you have finally deigned to use google, but can you use it to ask every intelligent question a criminal investigator would when searching out the details of a crime?

If you understood the intelligence community then you would know it is very easy to manufacture a cover story and a back story for a person, but it starts to break down when it comes to their back story and known associates.

So in reality you have only answered the most basic of questions, that you now want to use as an answer for the most intricate and difficult ones.

That is very poor methodoligy indeed!



[edit on 24/5/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


That's too funny, you are using a Fox News source, a Fox News that is not only a Major Multinational Media Conglomerate but owned by a Knight of the British Monarchy?

A source that is known for it's pro-War on Terror and NeoConservative Stance...while you keep claiming that no major institutions, or any one with ties to the Military Industrial Complex or with a possible hidden agenda is involved?

ATS might not be the right site for you to post on.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

I am deligbted after 7 pages of nonsensical requests, cherry picking over questions, and making rediculous demands you have finally deigned to use google, but can you use it to ask every intelligent question a criminal investigator would when searching out the details of a crime?

This is not a crime. This is you making up a hypothesis that you can't support and one which seems easily debunked by cursory Google searches. The idea is sourced to a private citizen. The Facebook page is sourced to a private citizen. Nobody seems to debate this except you, because you have a wild notion about the military, the CIA and fundamentalists that you so desperately want to be true.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

That's too funny, you are using a Fox News source, a Fox News that is not only a Major Multinational Media Conglomerate but owned by a Knight of the British Monarchy?

A source that is known for it's pro-War on Terror and NeoConservative Stance...while you keep claiming that no major institutions, or any one with ties to the Military Industrial Complex or with a possible hidden agenda is involved?

ATS might not be the right site for you to post on.

The same story on CNN ..(notably NOT a neocon site)


Here's one from the Examiner

I think you have lost on this one

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


Actually all you have done is provide more information to substantiate the contention it is a conspiracy.

The person in question was a relatively unknown uncredentialed self described artist, who created a Face Book Page just to promote this cause.

In other words there was no Face Book Page for her as simply an artist.

Which is odd since most artists need to network to sell their art.

So once again you have displayed an inability to think critically and objectively.

This is clearly a case of a personality being manufactured to promote a cause.

Once again you can't answer any of the probing questions a true investigator would ask, and seek answers for, and can't even rationalize a need to ask for them, which is a position, that is in fact rooted in a desire to be ignorant.

So clearly once again you are rushing to assumptions, and then trying to substantiate your assumptions by using a different evidentiary threshhold for yourself than for others.

Meanwhile unbeknownst to you these clumsy and half thought out efforts simply illustrate more elements to the conspiracy.

By the way, I am manipulating you and others to do this, and that's how easy it is to manipulate people online.

Once I finish getting the skeptics and shills to do my basic research for me, then I can go out and track down the details.

Thanks for helping me!

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

That's too funny, you are using a Fox News source, a Fox News that is not only a Major Multinational Media Conglomerate but owned by a Knight of the British Monarchy?

A source that is known for it's pro-War on Terror and NeoConservative Stance...while you keep claiming that no major institutions, or any one with ties to the Military Industrial Complex or with a possible hidden agenda is involved?

ATS might not be the right site for you to post on.

The same story on CNN ..(notably NOT a neocon site)


Here's one from the Examiner

I think you have lost on this one

Really one from Time Warner CNN who is closely aligned with Citi-Corp?

Wow that's a real independent source, who owns the Examiner?

So lets see we keep turning up the Big Six Corporations here who promoted this story and made sure it "Spontaneously went viral", hey question if you were in a paper bag, would you even know you were in a paper bag?

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
By the way, I am manipulating you and others to do this, and that's how easy it is to manipulate people online.

I don't think I would refer to it as such. I think I would see it more as you trying desperately to retain some credibility after two long days of consistent failures. At this point you have to do one of two things. Either prove your huge manipulation conspiracy, or admit that it was defeated with a cursory Google search. Oh wait, you already admitted it was just your "opinion". Nevermind. Proceed with your fool's exercise.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
By the way, I am manipulating you and others to do this, and that's how easy it is to manipulate people online.

I don't think I would refer to it as such. I think I would see it more as you trying desperately to retain some credibility after two long days of consistent failures. At this point you have to do one of two things. Either prove your huge manipulation conspiracy, or admit that it was defeated with a cursory Google search. Oh wait, you already admitted it was just your "opinion". Nevermind. Proceed with your fool's exercise.

You keep telling yourself that. In fact I knew nothing about the events of this Draw Mohamed Day until I stumbled on this thread.

I just know everything is a conspiracy!

One by one I have gotten you and others to tell me all about it, and to identify the main players for me, who actually are the usual suspects in most conspiracies.

This is so a conspiracy it's not even funny, and in fact everything you have done has uncovered more elements of the conspiracy.

By the way, I started playing the drums at 8 in the Third Grade, I started the class 12 weeks into the school year, and finished that years class 2 and a half books ahead of the rest of the class that had a 12 week head start.

So we keep seeing solid evidence of the Main Stream Media owned by the Big Six pushing Draw Mohamed Day that was the invention of an obscure and uncredentialed self described artist, who created a page on CIA Controlled Face Book to promote this idea, after VIACOM another Big Six Company, created the controversy through South Park a show that appeals to people who enjoy humor, and bad humor at that, prone to emotional reactions and manipulation through humor.

By your own admission only certain cultural elements would find any appeal in such a thing, all of those notorious for being easy to manipulate through the Big Six Mainstream Media.

You know if you keep up this great work for me, I might let you start getting lunch.

I know lunch runs are a huge responsibility, but I am prepared to take a chance on people.

PT & td, I have been periodically following your debate. I think it's safe to say that you two should agree to disagree.

I appreciate the involvement in the thread, but you are both beating a dead horse at this point. Your initial stances were made pages ago. All you're doing now is throwing needless potshots at one another. I applaud both of you for standing by your views it has been a great read.

None the less:

Let it go gentlemen! ...again, I think at this point you should just both agree to disagree and call it a stalemate

ETA: just a suggestion mind you, disregard at your leisure.

[edit on 5/24/2010 by UberL33t]

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
By the way, I started playing the drums at 8 in the Third Grade, I started the class 12 weeks into the school year, and finished that years class 2 and a half books ahead of the rest of the class that had a 12 week head start.

That's really cool, dude. Do you still play? I do. Back in the 90s I was in a moderately successful band that I still get fan mail from. I have two bands now and occasionally do some studio work with some of the guys in Sugarland (I grew up with one of the guys, neither of us really like country music). I can't seem to quit playing.

Originally posted by UberL33t
Let it go gentlemen! ...again, I think at this point you should just both agree to disagree and call it a stalemate

ETA: just a suggestion mind you, disregard at your leisure.

I'm cool with that.

I think it's apparent we're both debate junkies. And drummers too apparently.