Burka Rage -- Female Lawyer Rips Veil off Muslim woman

reply to post by Dock9


Conformity? Is that what you want, everyone to dress and act the same? Why is it so important to you if they are banned or not? What this lawyer did is despicable and deserved to get punched in her ignorant #ing face.

reply to post by Dock9


reply to post by Centurionx




cultural imperialism is never right. However, we must remember as Americans that Europe is not America. Europe prides its European culture, and they are justified to force their culture WITHIN their own borders, Doesn't make it right, just saying, they can.

[edit on 19-5-2010 by Gorman91]

reply to post by Gorman91


You're right Europe is not America, but ripping someones clothes off should be universally frowned upon. I know what else does not conform to French culture..military victories.

reply to post by Centurionx


actually French culture is itself revolutionary and somewhat violent. The fact is that ripping someone's clothes off is not offensive to all. And in France, weirder things have happened, with perfect approval from society. Bare in mind. The president is president for a reason there.

People are accusing the lawyer for high-handedness but no one is talking of the negativity the burka creates in the public psyche. How many kids would not be horrified if they suddenly turned around and saw such a weird figure? Anybody who truely loves freedopm should support a ban of this horrible dress. The other day, a german female minister described the burka as a mobile prison.

Anotherthing I personally observed about the burka is that some muslim women would be comfortable in it because of the anonymity it provides. It removes the need to wear dark goggles. Which masquerade doesnt like dancing around in a market square while the onlookers have no chance to see what he looks like? In a way, it helps the wearers to fend off shyness. They have no need to smoke pot.

reply to post by Gorman91

The fact is that ripping someone's clothes off is not offensive to all.

in France, weirder things have happened, with perfect approval from society

Funny you should mention that. I had a friend who visited france, and claimed that one day while walking down a crowded street in broad daylight, several guys grabbed her, pulled off her shirt, pinned her to the ground and thoroughly fondled her. All while she screamed for help, and people casually walked by watching the whole thing.

I admit my first impression at the time was to be skeptical of her story. But then, I also remember a girl in japan explaining to me that it was common for adult men to fondle schoolgirls on trains. Also in full view of everyone. And nobody says or does anything.

...so, while it may not be to my taste...I can't look at hijab and say the idea is completely without merit. I don't remember ever hearing of a woman wearing a burka being molested by strangers in public.


[edit on 19-5-2010 by LordBucket]

reply to post by LordBucket


yea pretty much. Though I am surprised at that extreme. That's Europe for you I guess.

Again it does not make it right. But it is their culture, and their right to enforce it.

Originally posted by pro-all
People are accusing the lawyer for high-handedness but no one is talking of the negativity the burka creates in the public psyche. How many kids would not be horrified if they suddenly turned around and saw such a weird figure?...

Ok then, by your logic ban the burqa but then you would have to ban goths, punks, white supremasist, transvestites etc. etc. list goes on.

reply to post by pro-all

How many kids would not be horrified if they suddenly turned around and saw such a weird figure?

Then i ask, what the hell intolerance are you teaching your kids if they get freaked out at someone wearing an item of clothing? Do you also worry if they'll freak out seeing someone that's severely disfigured? Guess we better ban those people too in case kids get scared. Sheesh!

Anybody who truely loves freedopm should support a ban of this horrible dress.

Oh my God! That is absolutely hilarious! You do realise the hypocrasy of this statement don't you?? Seems you need to go learn what freedom actually means. I just read out this statement to folk in work and they're all gutting themselves laughing.

Pity your views seems to be shared by many, who don't know or uderstand what 'freedom' means, but ironically seem to think that it should be thrown about as a good excuse to control people.

Originally posted by PsykoOps

Originally posted by pro-all
People are accusing the lawyer for high-handedness but no one is talking of the negativity the burka creates in the public psyche. How many kids would not be horrified if they suddenly turned around and saw such a weird figure?...

Ok then, by your logic ban the burqa but then you would have to ban goths, punks, white supremasist, transvestites etc. etc. list goes on.

What you listed here make no sense. How many of people in these groups freak kids out? Where I hail from, kids have a great fear of masquerades and there is no difference between them and burka wearers. Hope that clarifies a bit.

Nammu,

Burka is not just a piece of clothing. Its more in the category of hooded kkk members that instil fear in both kids and adults alike. Do you also realize that the burka is a traditional arab wear and has nothing to do with islam? I have seen these arab holiday makers here in europe, a man in t-shirt with his three women struggling in their burkas. Freedom should not mean tolerating man's inhumanity to women.

[edit on 19-5-2010 by pro-all]

reply to post by pro-all

How many of people in these groups freak kids out?

I don't know about you, but in my reality punks, white supremacists and transvestites probably scare a lot more people than women in burkas. Perhaps barring the occassional child who thinks they're ninja.

Freedom should not mean tolerating man's inhumanity to women.

Freedom should not mean being subjected to anything contrary to your will. If muslims prefer a society in which they are not subjected to the female form, and if you would prefer a society where women do not feel the need to hide their form lest they adversely affect men...neither you nor muslims will be served by compelling the other, or being compelled to behave according to the others preference.

I propose simple, voluntary segregation. Muslims, if you're unwilling to conform to western standards....westerners, if you're unwilling to adopt muslim modesty...then perhaps you might both stay in your respective countries amidst people who share your beliefs.

If you go where there are people who make you uncomfortable and are uncomfortable around you...there will be discomfort.

It's simple.


[edit on 19-5-2010 by LordBucket]

reply to post by LordBucket


You make a very good point especially in the last paragraph. What all boils down to is that multiculturalism doesnt work. If the burka wearers remained in their home countries, no one would have any issue. But the reality is that I have no clue of who runs the world. What I find odd is that muslims would readily relocate to the west when they have the least chance.

reply to post by pro-all

multiculturalism doesnt work.

Not a very popular view, but...kind of, yeah.

Arbitrarily mixing things together doesn't always generate good results. Beethoven is not improved by adding a "diversity" of notes. I like both Sushi and chocolate, but I wouldn't drop them both in a blender with some ketchup and A1 sauce and expect the "variety" to make them better.

Sometimes people don't mix well.

I think it's healthier to accept that than to continually keep shouting "Diversity! Diversity! Multiculturalism! Yay!" Sometimes cultures do mix. Sushi does quite well in california, and McDonald's is popular in japan. Ballet was originally italian and kintergarden was originally german. But these things have been so completely adopted that who even associates them with their countries of origin?

But tossing anything, everything and everyone into a "melting pot" just makes a mess.



[edit on 19-5-2010 by LordBucket]

Τhe lawyer should be charged with assault, cause thats what this incident was.

Originally posted by Dock9
reply to post by neformore

 

They're passing such laws due to overwhelming demand by the HOST communities

Nice try at completely missing the point.

You can be French, and be a muslim
You can be American, and be a muslim
You can be any nationality you want, and be a muslim.

Or, in your terms, you can be born in the "Host" country, which just happens to be your own home country, and be a muslim.

And if you are a muslim, you may choose - out of deference to your religion and freedom of your own choice - to wear this garment.

What you are advocating is that government has the right to dictate what people wear, and what their identity should be.

If you can't see the absolute utter menace behind that idea, then maybe you should look up the term 'Hitler Youth' and, similarly, 'Juche' and try and understand them before you are told what to wear, and when, and how.

Or maybe you'll accept your government telling you that? Does your apparent hatred of all things muslim preclude the idea that this might be the thin end of a very big wedge, where your "national identity" is forced upon you to conform to, 24/7/365.

Something to think about maybe?

reply to post by pro-all

Burka is not just a piece of clothing. Its more in the category of hooded kkk members that instil fear in both kids and adults alike. Do you also realize that the burka is a traditional arab wear and has nothing to do with islam? I have seen these arab holiday makers here in europe, a man in t-shirt with his three women struggling in their burkas. Freedom should not mean tolerating man's inhumanity to women.

Look, i don't agree with burqas. I know the arguments against them. I'm a woman so you don't need to explain the oppressionistic symbolism they portray.

But i also don't see why you removing a woman's freedom to wear an item of clothing if she so chooses is any better than a man forcing her to wear it in the first place.

You are either on the side of freedom, or the side of control. You've got it all backwards. You are on the side of control.

If you are for freedom then you will see that banning them is not the answer because you are removing the freedom of choice.

If you are for control then you want to control what people wear. Just like the bad husband does.

What side are you on?

reply to post by Dock9

Originally posted by Dock9 Personally, I do regard it as grotesque and can understand the emotions it aroused in the female French lawyer.

Interesting, I however find the برقع‎ Burqu to be annoying only because I might see really pretty eyes and then to my utter annoyance have found myself distractedly wondering about the symmetry of the face beneath. So for me not so much a grotesque horror, more a social barrier but then is that not its purpose so as not to be “annoyed” by strange men? That said I do not think devout Muslim woman tend to strike up conversations with strange men (like me) so it’s all good.

Originally posted by Dock9 After all, the burqua doesn't conform with French culture and is ... let's be honest ... a monstrosity

But they are not wearing it for you sir or for the French peoples delectation, they are wearing it for reasons that have all to do with their faith and their own culture as it pertains to them and if you think someone should reject their culture or compromise their faith just because they have moved to a new land with a completely different set of values both cultural, social and religious then you are with the greatest of respect – dreaming.

Originally posted by Dock9 Fine if muslim women want to go around draped in something akin to a large bedspread or tablecloth --- in their own countries But I hope the French pursue eradication of this garment -- which is ghastly on so many levels --- within France . [edit on 18-5-2010 by Dock9]

I think that even in their own countries you would still consider this woman and others like her to be somehow less than woman as you identify them just because they choose to adhere to a dress code that has nothing to do with western values and dress “codes”. I have a suspicion that the real reason for your contempt of this garb is that you see this attire as a social barrier in as much as a woman might say “back off I am not interested.”

The full face veil or برقع‎ Burqu is doing the talking here and for you this is the real grotesque monstrosity because you seem to be taking this as a personal slight upon yourself and this slight is causing you to react with such thinly veiled (pun not intended) contempt and lack of tolerance for another’s religious calling, their culture and the reasons they choose to remain hidden behind a layer of cloth.

I am not attacking you at all and I am only honestly saying how your post looks to me and I am also an atheist so I am not a religious brother sticking up for a religious sister before you assume wrongly as to my intentions.

Tolerance, respect for another’s religious choice and a rejection of hate, spite and vitriol really does do wonders for how much you smile and enjoy a warm sunny day.

It is not easy of course, we live in a complicated and crappy world of eaters and needy, damaged souls but it is certainly better than just taking white to mean white or black to be black or to think that a veil wearer is some kind of threat to your manhood.

Originally posted by Salamandy
Muslim men dont really have any mojo. Dating and man/woman socializing is forbidden so they have no game. . .

So basically from a scientific perception, years and years of a society like that, means those ppl don't have any social skills for courting the opposite sex.

I guess it makes sense in a way.

Originally posted by LordBucket
reply to post by Jadette

 

The burqa is a symbol of slavery. It's not 'fashion'. It's oppression.

Meanwhile, in an alternate dimension, an oppressed American woman tourist visiting africa had her blouse torn from her body by topless tribeswomen. This symbol of her slavery was then burned, as it should be. The women who stripped her naked later commented, "American women are so ignorant they don't understand how barbaric the custom of hiding a woman's breasts is. They are a natural part of our body, and are for the care and feeding of children. To cover them is to deny our maternal nature, and an abomination."

Amen to that!

The solution is simple.

Everyone needs to get naked!

Originally posted by Dock9
The photo at the link shows what the source describes as a burqua

Personally, I do regard it as grotesque and can understand the emotions it aroused in the female French lawyer. After all, the burqua doesn't conform with French culture and is ... let's be honest ... a monstrosity

Funny you should say that...Pat Condell likens the appearance of the burqa to "Darth Vader" who of course is evil personified in the Star Wars movies:

Ban the burka

"Most Muslims know full well that the burka has got nothing at all to do with their religion. There's nothing in the Koran about dressing up like Darth Vader"

The headline makes it sound like the lawyer committed the first physical assault, but apparently she didn't, once you read the article, so it's a very misleading headline.