Doesn't Christianity Contradict The Ten Commandments?

reply to post by CookieMonster09


One last note: you said

The Pope is a religious leader. He's the bishop of Rome, and the leader of the worldwide Catholic Church. The Pope is also the head of state of Vatican City, a small city-state within Rome.

If he's not a king, but he is the leader of the sovereign nation of the Vatican... is there a citizen elected representative body that governs the state or just an ordained singular figure?

Look, I think that there are far more things you and I have in common than apart, but there are some huge differences in how we see the corporate church in our relationship with God.

To me - my church is a tool for me to do more for God than I could alone. It's an opportunity to worship my God with other believers, and the chance to listen to God's word as witnessed by others.

To my (albeit somewhat ignorant) view of the Catholic church - the church has instituted itself AS THE BRIDGE between man and God... but Jesus is the bridge. To the Catholic the priest is the connection to God and without his involvement the believer cannot adequately experience Jesus or a relationship with God.

I disagree with that.

Salvation is just that: instant gratification. You were saved before you even knew it (a little thing called prevenient Grace) So why is it ok for Jesus to instantly convert thousands but if you want to be Catholic it's a long arduous process before you can accept communion?

I don't subscribe to the concept that salvation can be achieved through instant gratification. I know that's not popular - everyone wants a quick fix - but who said getting to heaven would be easy?

If Jesus were to instantly convert thousands of people instantly, I don't think that means that everyone that was converted to the faith that day was heading straight to heaven. I think that you might be confusing conversion to the faith with a free ticket to Paradise.

If you commit a mortal sin before confessing, and you die, it doesn't matter if you were baptized. You go straight down to Hell to see the Devil himself for the rest of eternity. (Bring a cooler - It's hot down there.)

It's a tough road to hoe, this Catholicism. No one ever said it would be easy.

You addressed the statement I made about legalism with a deflection saying something about justice. In one statement you refer to the Pharisees and scribes as who you're NOT trying to be but then in the next talk about how Mass derives it's roots from the very rituals practiced by them

There is a significant, and definitive break in tradition from Judaism and Christianity. Jews don't generally accept Christ as their Savior.

That doesn't mean that we don't have a lot in common with Judaism. All Christians do. After all, Jesus was a Jew, as were the earliest Christians.

Why do I have to do a penance?

Just because Christ died for our sins, it does not give us a carte blanche "Get Out of Jail Free" card to commit whatever sin we choose whenever we want. No, we must confess our sins, and do penance.

Otherwise, people would commit atrocious mortal sins, and have no regrets because they were under the illusion that they were "saved". That's not how it works.

The punishment for sin is the consequence of sin. You'll notice that every sin has a natural consequence... so why do Catholic priests assign additional "works" to wash you clean of your sin? Was Christ's blood not enough?

The priest serves as a spiritual counselor to help the confessor to overcome sin. Penance is typically prayer, or a charitable deed. It's not a matter of whether Christ's blood was enough - It's more a matter of doing penance so that we make amends for our wrongdoing. Where we consciously acknowledge our sinful behavior and do penance to make amends.

If he's not a king, but he is the leader of the sovereign nation of the Vatican... is there a citizen elected representative body that governs the state or just an ordained singular figure?

I have no idea. The cardinals elect the Pope. That's about the extent of my knowledge on the inner political structure of the Vatican state.

To my (albeit somewhat ignorant) view of the Catholic church - the church has instituted itself AS THE BRIDGE between man and God... but Jesus is the bridge. To the Catholic the priest is the connection to God and without his involvement the believer cannot adequately experience Jesus or a relationship with God.

Most Catholics don't view their priests as being a burden to them getting closer to God. Catholics are very much empowered to pray without a priest, say the Rosary without a priest, etc.

In fact, a priest is not a hindrance - He's a spiritual adviser, a helper, and someone that tries to guide his parishioners to be closer to God. This is no different than any rabbi or pastor at any other denomination.

And really, in the traditional Mass, the focus of the Mass is not on the priest. It's on the actual worship to God. It's quite meditative. The priest isn't there to hinder you or become an obstacle to the believer.

reply to post by gncnew

It also states in the Bible to confess your sins to one and other.
Jesus confronted the men who were about to stone the harlot.

reply to post by slugger9787


... so why not confess to your best friend... why only a priest? Why only in a booth? What's up with the penance?

Originally posted by gncnew
reply to post by slugger9787

 

... so why not confess to your best friend... why only a priest? Why only in a booth? What's up with the penance?

Hi/
St. James the Apostle admonishes us to confess our sins to God before the elders, or priests, as they are called today (James 5:16).
We are also exhorted to confess our sins directly to God (I John 1:9).

John 20:19-25...
19/// Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week,
when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst,
and saith unto them,
Peace be unto you.
20/// And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the LORD.
21/// Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22/// And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.



Sacrament of Repentance.
The first time He said to the Apostle Peter that He will give him the keys of the kingdom of heaven so that whatever he will bind on earth will be bound in heaven and whatever he will loose on earth will be loosed in heaven (Matthew 16:19).(this is given also to all of the twelve Apostles)
Some time later He gave the authority to forgive and to retain sins to all the apostles.
This was done in conjunction with their task to resolve problems among the members of the Church: "If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone.
If he hears you, you have gained your brother.
But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the Church.
But if he refuses even to hear the Church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.
Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven" (Matthew 18:15-18)...

Confession is like going to a proffessional (eg/pyschiatrist or family counceloretc..)and talking out your problems...except a priest won't charge you so much an hour!!!
...modern counciling has replaced a true spiritual doctor, a priest who is a doctor for one's Soul!

ICXC NIKA
helen

This discussion is why I adore the religious topic as the number one tragedy at its finest moments. Knowing how to use perception of others to get them to "willingly" do what is wanted of them is the highest form of power that any being can wield. Knowing how to manipulate ego in others is the greatest form of bloodless rise to authority any being can accomplish.

Do not be deceived. The pope has more power than a king. All religious leaders have a power that is recognized by governments throughout the world. Historically, the religious leaders were the ones that unified a society getting the people to follow one standard. Regardless of individual church or religious title and they all use the power of perception. Overall, that isn't totally bad but that is what makes religion so dangerous. The sheep in wolves clothing you bible thumpers are so worried about.

The ten commandments have been the most discussed portion of Jewish law, and this group of people declared themselves the chosen. But the Jewish leaders became a little too cozy with a conquering force, the Romans. Deals were made by the leaders of the Jews with the Romans and the followers did not appreciate being pawns in those negotiations.

We credit a religious reform to one man, Jesus; however, it was the efforts of many that brought about the new religion. It began with a collection of people from many cultures that were dissatisfied with their religious leaders and government leaders. It was not a peaceful revolution, despite what the interpretation is from one of the only surviving sources of information (scrolls). It began with conversations and it has grown to be the most popular repeated perception in history: The birth of a Christ added to the authority of this new religion but people who knew how to read these scripts were killed.

Read between the lines. We do not give enough credit to the intelligence of our rebel ancestors. What began as a movement to create a better society for the poor, the enslaved, and the unclean, turned into a major powerhouse for those who know how to use it. Read between the lines because the metaphors were put into the stories for a reason! What would you write if you had a sword to your throat knowing you had to get a message out that would not be destroyed to warn your community? The sword that has two sides, two interpretations, two possibile outcomes.

The ten commandments make sense for those who know how to use them and it only applies to the followers to follow, not the leaders. Leaders do not follow. Leaders make the rules and just in case someone does not like it, cast the first stone and suffer the wrath of a god. Hello?

Fear is the number one perception that can be manipulated. Imperfection is the number one ego that can be manipulated. Doubt is the number one intelligence factor that can be manipulated.

Why organized religion is doomed to fail is because of the new movement to educate. When people learn how to read and think for his or her self; learn to control fears and not accept blind obedience; and gain confidence for decisions, the power and authority goes to the people of society.

But some of the rules and laws make sense while others are just to further the agendas of those who are currently in power. We cannot confuse the local parish priests and reverands with those that are in power because the local heads of churches are followers too.

Education breeds an arrogance that those in power are unable to manipulate using the standard one source (bible), so interpretaions of the bible try to keep up with the more intelligent society. I am afraid that this run of independent thinkers will soon be over.

Texas is the first to petition a complete rewrite of history to reincorporate religious traditions inspiring a new history to teach our children in our schools (is it really going to be a vote?). Funding for education is disappearing but will spark back up for all schools that adopt the new textbooks and add a few religious rituals and ideals to the curriculum (again, is it really going to be a vote?).

The ten commandments will come with amendments, just like the Constitution. Only the amendements for the ten commandments won't be witten because it is going to be an experiement in manipulations of perceptions once again. Why mess with a sure thing? It worked before when people were hungry and homeless, fighting a war that was not theirs to fight. It will work again. It always does.

That is the conspiracy. You have free will but then again, your free will is a sign of the devil. Follow God as it is interpreted by your religious leaders (and soon, your government too) and you will see a heaven - when you die. After all, isn't the point of living: to serve a higher power until you die? Suicide is illegal and a sin so don't think you can get to heaven before you do your servitude and suffrage on earth! These rules on apply to the followers.

If you are intelligent, educated, outspoken, or a leader, you have other rules to follow! It is your duty to provide reasons for the followers to follow. You can be the Devil's Advocate or you can fall in and learn how to manipulate imagination to be the interpreter of the biggest conspiracy in world history.

Religion is not going away because it works so well. That is why I am fascinated with this topic. It works the best on people who are afraid of losing, people who are afraid of winning, and people who are just afraid. That is a catch all biblical clause for anyone and everyone sooner or later.

The bible is the perfect tool and the ten commandments add the right amount of crediblity for all faiths and all cultures. Our ancestors were exetremely intelligent but one begs the question why go through all this effort of control unless of course it is a legacy to be passed on to future authority wannabe legends!

Don't be decieved is my message. It is all about being controlled here and now to serve a purpose and that purpose is to further the gains of someone else. I won't be offended if you do not believe me. As a matter of fact, I know that anyone who has any guilt or fear will not believe me. Unfortunately, the ones in control know this too and that is what allows them to assume a powerful role in society knowing how your perception can be manipulated.

"God and the Devil unite: Both fear I'd make them serve me.

reply to post by CookieMonster09


The woman of Revelations is the Church

Revelations 17:
[4] And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
[5] And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
[6] And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

[18] And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

No other church has such influence over leaders of the nations.

No other church has a city/nation all to it's self.

whore from Strongs Concordance

www.blueletterbible.org...

1) a woman who sells her body for sexual uses

a) a prostitute, a harlot, one who yields herself to defilement for the sake of gain

b) any woman indulging in unlawful sexual intercourse, whether for gain or for lust

2) metaph. an idolatress

a) of "Babylon" i.e. Rome, the chief seat of idolatry

So it seems that the Vatican which happens to be in Rome is the Chief seat of idolatry.

You can find a statue of just about any saint to bow down to and buy a replica of it in the stores of the Vatican.

Look at the Pope, cardinal or bishop and you will see them robed in scarlet and purple decked in jewels

www.jesus-is-savior.com...

Notice the Catholic religion calls herself a woman. The Bible calls Catholicism a whore, and what a GREAT WHORE she is—committing spiritual fornication with the kings and rulers of the earth (nearly every king throughout history has had some type of political, economic or religious ties with the Vatican).

John 5

[38] And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
[39] Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
[40] And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
[41] I receive not honour from men.
[42] But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
[43] I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Your missal

The Missal contains the structure of the Mass

Rom.9

1. [31] But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
2. [32] Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
[44] How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

[edit on 23-5-2010 by ACTS 2:38]

The woman of Revelations is the Church

According to the Douay-Rheims Haydock commentary, Book of Revelations, there are three (3) ways of expounding all the visions of this revelation, all of which seem grounded in the opinions of the ancient fathers:

"According to the first, all these visions are only to be fulfilled in anti-christ's time, a little before the end of the world.

According to the second, the visions may be applied to particular events, which happened in the first three or four ages, under the persecuting heathens, til Constantine, and the succeeding Christian emperors, idolatry by degrees was extirpated, and the faith of Christ triumphed over all its enemies, whether Jews or pagans.

According to the third, by the great city of Babylon (note: Iraq), is mystically and metaphorically signified all wicked great cities in the world, all the multitude of the wicked dispersed in all nations, their short and vain happiness, their persecutions and oppressions of the good and faithful servants of God, who live piously in this world, and who are called to be citizens of the celestial Jerusalem in the kingdom of God, where He reigns forever with His angels and saints, and where they all reign with Him, happy in His sight and enjoyment."

The commentary continues:

"Of the great harlot: Nothing can be better applied than this epithet to ancient Rome, which had conquered almost all the kingdoms of the known world, as it is said in ver. 18 she "is the great city, a kingdom which hath dominion over kings of the earth"; ver. 9 it was built upon "seven mountains"; ver. 6 was watered with the blood of the saints and martyrs of Jesus Christ; and in final, ver. 5 it was the great Babylon, as St. Peter, in his first epistle, pleases to call it."

So it seems that the Vatican which happens to be in Rome is the Chief seat of idolatry.

Please re-read my prior posts regarding these false allegations against the Church regarding idolatry. The Church explicitly denounces idolatry in its Catechism. I have thoroughly covered the topic of idolatry in earlier posts. If you wish to discuss my earlier posts, I would be happy to discuss them.

Look at the Pope, cardinal or bishop and you will see them robed in scarlet and purple decked in jewels

No, the Pope wears many vestments depending on the liturgical season. The most common being all in white, as shown in the Pope's official portrait.

(By the way, that is one spooky web site link. If that isn't the pure definition of hate speech, I don't know what is.)

committing spiritual fornication with the kings and rulers of the earth (nearly every king throughout history has had some type of political, economic or religious ties with the Vatican)

I think you have the Vatican confused with ancient pagan Rome, my friend.

The Bible calls Catholicism a whore

It does not. Cite your sources.


[edit on 23-5-2010 by CookieMonster09]

reply to post by gncnew


I have been a Catholic all of my life.
I receive the sacrament of confession administered by a priest, plus I confess my sins to my brothers and sisters in a self help meeting.

Telling my wrongs to others gets it off my chest.
Telling it to a priest in the sacrament of confession puts Gods Grace back in my heart.

reply to post by CookieMonster09


penance

1. An act of self-mortification or devotion performed voluntarily to show sorrow for a sin or other wrongdoing.
2. A sacrament in some Christian churches that includes contrition, confession to a priest, acceptance of punishment, and absolution. Also called reconciliation.

v.intr.

1. To feel remorse, contrition, or self-reproach for what one has done or failed to do; be contrite.
2. To feel such regret for past conduct as to change one's mind regarding it: repented of intemperate behavior.
3. To make a change for the better as a result of remorse or contrition for one's sins.

repent

v.tr.

1. To feel regret or self-reproach for: repent one's sins.
2. To cause to feel remorse or regret.

From Strongs Concordance

1) to change one's mind, i.e. to repent

2) to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins

and by the way penance is not in the Bible it is man made.

God whose name is Jesus say's to repent from your sins......change the way you act and think to hate that which God hates and to love that which God loves.

as for your belief that bowing down to a statue as not being idol worship I can not help you for until your eyes can see and your heart can understand you will always believe that those bowing to statues are not worshiping them.

Read the Bible it does not take some one else telling you what is being said only prayer before hand so that the Holy Spirit will allow your eyes to see and your heart to except the knowledge that is before you.

Lev.26

1. [1] Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.

reply to post by peggy m


Peggy,

control over behavior is exercized through the faculty of volition which each individual possesses.

laws control for the common good.

most people use their intelligence to comprehend that, agree with it and follow laws.

spiritual laws are also present which are either agreed upon or not.

you can call it control but as long as individuals have volition it really most of the time is a choice on their part to comply. they really are not being manipulated and controlled.

reply to post by earth2


They also say don't use the lords name in vain, but they are using Jesus's name to bring in people to their church? he is just basically a mascot. Isn't that using his name in vain?

I just believe in GOD. It makes life easier.



[edit on 25-5-2010 by dragnet53]

reply to post by dragnet53


Thats me, I just believe in God, but my Ex-wife (super christian) says thats not enought to get into heaven. If you dont accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and saviour you will go to Hell, LOL...

Originally posted by earth2
reply to post by dragnet53

 

Thats me, I just believe in God, but my Ex-wife (super christian) says thats not enought to get into heaven. If you dont accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and saviour you will go to Hell, LOL...

LOL I bet she would be pretty pissed off if she read the Sumerian tablets and knew everything she learned is wrong.



BTW love the avatar!

[edit on 25-5-2010 by dragnet53]

Originally posted by peggy m
This discussion is why I adore the religious topic as the number one tragedy at its finest moments. Knowing how to use perception of others to get them to "willingly" do what is wanted of them is the highest form of power that any being can wield. Knowing how to manipulate ego in others is the greatest form of bloodless rise to authority any being can accomplish.

Do not be deceived. The pope has more power than a king. All religious leaders have a power that is recognized by governments throughout the world. Historically, the religious leaders were the ones that unified a society getting the people to follow one standard. Regardless of individual church or religious title and they all use the power of perception. Overall, that isn't totally bad but that is what makes religion so dangerous. The sheep in wolves clothing you bible thumpers are so worried about.

The ten commandments have been the most discussed portion of Jewish law, and this group of people declared themselves the chosen. But the Jewish leaders became a little too cozy with a conquering force, the Romans. Deals were made by the leaders of the Jews with the Romans and the followers did not appreciate being pawns in those negotiations.

We credit a religious reform to one man, Jesus; however, it was the efforts of many that brought about the new religion. It began with a collection of people from many cultures that were dissatisfied with their religious leaders and government leaders. It was not a peaceful revolution, despite what the interpretation is from one of the only surviving sources of information (scrolls). It began with conversations and it has grown to be the most popular repeated perception in history: The birth of a Christ added to the authority of this new religion but people who knew how to read these scripts were killed.

Read between the lines. We do not give enough credit to the intelligence of our rebel ancestors. What began as a movement to create a better society for the poor, the enslaved, and the unclean, turned into a major powerhouse for those who know how to use it. Read between the lines because the metaphors were put into the stories for a reason! What would you write if you had a sword to your throat knowing you had to get a message out that would not be destroyed to warn your community? The sword that has two sides, two interpretations, two possibile outcomes.

The ten commandments make sense for those who know how to use them and it only applies to the followers to follow, not the leaders. Leaders do not follow. Leaders make the rules and just in case someone does not like it, cast the first stone and suffer the wrath of a god. Hello?

Fear is the number one perception that can be manipulated. Imperfection is the number one ego that can be manipulated. Doubt is the number one intelligence factor that can be manipulated.

Why organized religion is doomed to fail is because of the new movement to educate. When people learn how to read and think for his or her self; learn to control fears and not accept blind obedience; and gain confidence for decisions, the power and authority goes to the people of society.

But some of the rules and laws make sense while others are just to further the agendas of those who are currently in power. We cannot confuse the local parish priests and reverands with those that are in power because the local heads of churches are followers too.

Education breeds an arrogance that those in power are unable to manipulate using the standard one source (bible), so interpretaions of the bible try to keep up with the more intelligent society. I am afraid that this run of independent thinkers will soon be over.

Texas is the first to petition a complete rewrite of history to reincorporate religious traditions inspiring a new history to teach our children in our schools (is it really going to be a vote?). Funding for education is disappearing but will spark back up for all schools that adopt the new textbooks and add a few religious rituals and ideals to the curriculum (again, is it really going to be a vote?).

The ten commandments will come with amendments, just like the Constitution. Only the amendements for the ten commandments won't be witten because it is going to be an experiement in manipulations of perceptions once again. Why mess with a sure thing? It worked before when people were hungry and homeless, fighting a war that was not theirs to fight. It will work again. It always does.

That is the conspiracy. You have free will but then again, your free will is a sign of the devil. Follow God as it is interpreted by your religious leaders (and soon, your government too) and you will see a heaven - when you die. After all, isn't the point of living: to serve a higher power until you die? Suicide is illegal and a sin so don't think you can get to heaven before you do your servitude and suffrage on earth! These rules on apply to the followers.

If you are intelligent, educated, outspoken, or a leader, you have other rules to follow! It is your duty to provide reasons for the followers to follow. You can be the Devil's Advocate or you can fall in and learn how to manipulate imagination to be the interpreter of the biggest conspiracy in world history.

Religion is not going away because it works so well. That is why I am fascinated with this topic. It works the best on people who are afraid of losing, people who are afraid of winning, and people who are just afraid. That is a catch all biblical clause for anyone and everyone sooner or later.

The bible is the perfect tool and the ten commandments add the right amount of crediblity for all faiths and all cultures. Our ancestors were exetremely intelligent but one begs the question why go through all this effort of control unless of course it is a legacy to be passed on to future authority wannabe legends!

Don't be decieved is my message. It is all about being controlled here and now to serve a purpose and that purpose is to further the gains of someone else. I won't be offended if you do not believe me. As a matter of fact, I know that anyone who has any guilt or fear will not believe me. Unfortunately, the ones in control know this too and that is what allows them to assume a powerful role in society knowing how your perception can be manipulated.

"God and the Devil unite: Both fear I'd make them serve me.

You may be right you may be wrong.
But you raise great points of validity.
If they are all your musings you are indeed inspired, if not you are inspired ?
Meditation cuts through a lot of thought control though and it is so sois o so easy to learn.
A palce to go.....somewhere inside....somewhere inside.

Originally posted by earth2
reply to post by dragnet53

 

Thats me, I just believe in God, but my Ex-wife (super christian) says thats not enought to get into heaven. If you dont accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and saviour you will go to Hell, LOL...

Actually, anyone who associates AYNTHING or ANYONE with God, will go to Hell.
So, saying that there is another one who is God, beside God, will get you to hell.

To get to heaven there is only ONE condition: Believe in ONE God, there is no other God beside Him, he is unique, One, Indivisible, not begotten and does not begett and there is nothing like unto Him.

THAT will get you to heaven.

Now, whether you will go to Hell before that for a little while to pay for (major) sins - that is another story.
God might forgive ALL sins but ONE. And this ONLY ONE sin he will NEVER forgive is associating Partners to Him.

as for your belief that bowing down to a statue as not being idol worship I can not help you for until your eyes can see and your heart can understand you will always believe that those bowing to statues are not worshiping them.

I have repeated numerous times in this thread: The Catholic Church forbids idol worship. I have already given you several references in this thread, including references directly from the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Catholics do not worship idols! Statues are reminders of God - They are not actual representations of God or gods.

When you see a picture of your wife or husband, do you actually believe that that picture is a living, breathing human being? Of course not. The picture is simply a reminder. No Catholic in their right mind worships statues in and of themselves. When we bow, and when we kneel, we are kneeling to God Almighty, not to a statue!

This topic has been thoroughly refuted in earlier posts. If you care to discuss my refutation, I would be happy to debate and discuss these ideas further. Until that time, please refrain from spreading disinformation, distortions, and falsehoods about the Roman Catholic faith.

"Pay for your Sins"

Adjusting for inflation, how much would that be in Euros?

Sounds like Heaven is a desolate place, seriously, who lives by the Bibles every word?

Tough place to get into, lucky Satan isn't so judgmental, otherwise most would be lost with nowhere to go.

so why do Catholic priests assign additional "works" to wash you clean of your sin? Was Christ's blood not enough?


very well said.

The Bible also states that "the wage sin pays is death". So even if Jesus did not die for us would not our own death (or symbolic shedding of blood) cover our sins? I belive Jesus' death was to cover those who did not die before the "end".

Can't really remember though...been too long since I was a Bible Thumper

God might forgive ALL sins but ONE. And this ONLY ONE sin he will NEVER forgive is associating Partners to Him.

Actually the ONLY unforgivable sin in the Bible is to "blashemy against the Holy spirit"...it doesn't say anything about associating Partners to Him