Doesn't Christianity Contradict The Ten Commandments?

Respectfully speaking, I am a former catholic and I would have to agree with what some of the other posters are saying regarding praying to Mary and the saints. I have seen many many instances in the catholic church where Mary is more regarded and honored than Jesus.

First, let me say sincerely that I am sorry that you have fallen away from the faith. I hope that someday you will find it in your heart to return to the Church.

In regards to the Blessed Virgin Mary: While Mary is respected in the Catholic Church - even venerated as the Mother of God - she is not God. This is official Church doctrine, regardless of what might be said or done in any particular Catholic parish.

You do know that Jesus Himself said that He is the only intercessor between man and God, don't you?

I think you are taking a quote out of context. Please be very specific when you make a statement such as this by stating the exact verse in Scripture.

Certainly, even in the Old Testament, we see angels acting as intercessors between God and man. God sent angels to bring destruction upon Soddom and Gommorah, for instance, as God had instructed the angels to do. In the New Testament, we see the Archangel Gabriel (also a saint) interacting with Mother Mary, as an intercessor between God and the Blessed Virgin Mary. The Bible has literally dozens of these kinds of intercessions between God and man.

In the Old Testament, in the Akeidah, we see an angel stopping Abraham from killing his own son, Isaac. This is yet another example where angels are acting as intercessors on God's behalf.

From the Art Scroll Stone Edition of the Chumash (Torah):

P. 79: Commentary: "As is apparent from the rest of the narrative, they were actually angels in the "guise" of men. God sent three different angels because, by definition, an angel is a function that God wishes to have performed. Thus, each function is a new angel, and since there were 3 missions to be accomplished in connection with Abraham and Sarah at the time, there were 3 angels to carry them out. In the words of the Midrash, "one angel does not perform two missions." In this case, the 3 angels were Michael, who informed Abraham that Sarah would have a son; Gabriel, who overturned Sodom, and Raphael, who healed Abraham and saved Lot. The last 2 tasks, healing Abraham and saving Lot, constituted a single mission because they were for the sake of rescue."

You know Jesus' mother Mary is not the most mentioned woman in the Bible.....heck she isn't even the most mentioned MARY in the Bible....doesn't that say something....

With all due respect, I don't understand how the quantity of someone's name being mentioned in the Bible is relevant to their importance.

I can think of a lot of people that aren't mentioned in the Bible that are still quite relevant to the Catholic faith.

Originally posted by CookieMonster09


First, let me say sincerely that I am sorry that you have fallen away from the faith. I hope that someday you will find it in your heart to return to the Church.

I have not fallen away from the catholic church, I left the church because God graciously opened my eyes to the truth, in answer to my asking him to show me. I would never go back to it.

Instead I try to tell my catholic family and friends about what I have learned and refer them to websites that explain what the catholic church itself says and does, in contrast to what God's word says to do.

I have lost some catholic friends because of this, but I must take that chance because God was gracious enough to show me the truth.

(my original quote)
You do know that Jesus Himself said that He is the only intercessor between man and God, don't you?

(your answer)
I think you are taking a quote out of context. Please be very specific when you make a statement such as this by stating the exact verse in Scripture.

You are right, I should have looked up the original quote, and my quote was wrong.

Paul made the statement in 1 Timothy 2 and here is the exact quote in *context*:

1 Timothy 2

1I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

2For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

As far as angels being intercessors, did you notice that in all the instances you used, GOD was the person sending the angels as his agents or messengers to do his tasks?

Nowhere in the Bible do you see anyone praying to God through a dead person or even through an angel!

David was a very honored and prominent person in the old testament, and yet there is never any mention of people praying to David to intercede with God for them. As a matter of fact the Bible expressly forbids trying to communicate with the dead.


I didn't make the statement about Mary's name not being the most mentioned, but I did agree with the statement.

With all due respect, I don't understand how the quantity of someone's name being mentioned in the Bible is relevant to their importance.

Of course the amount of times a name is mentioned is relevant! The Bible does everything possible TO downplay the importance of Mary. She was just another sinner like the rest of us, who went on to have at least 6 more children after she had Jesus and we will never know why God was gracious enough to pick her to become the mother of our Savior. THAT is why she was called blessed, not because she was sin free. She needed a savior just like the rest of us.

You know, at one time I said, and thought a lot of the same things you are saying because I was taught all those things. It wasn't until I asked God to give me the real truth about what to do that I started finding out a lot of things, and not just about the catholic church.

If you really want to do what God wants, just ask him to show you in a way you can understand, and I guarantee you he will.

Sometimes that will lead to some uncomfortable changes that you have to make, but it's worth it.

God Bless

sezsue

Christians are a funny bunch!!

We have their Bible that contains an Old version, and a New version. The old version COMPLETELY WARNS FOLKS AGAINST EVERYTHING THAT THE NEW TESTAMENT IS ABOUT!! New testament contains some new man-god that COMPLETELY goes against the TEACHINGS and COMMANDMENTS written in their Old Testament!!

But HECK, thats OK as this new Man-god is written of as being EQUAL TO GOD, SO ITS OK!! Sounds VERY much like a CLEVER, SNEAKY MOVE FROM SATAN (if he did exist) TO ME!! Christians, make me laugh. They're like neanderthals that think they are smart as EINSTEIN!!! Poor things!

reply to post by ToToo


I beg to differ. The Christ is mentioned more than a few times in the OT of the Bible.... He's even mentioned in the Book of Enoch. Jesus quotes from Enoch over 128 times. I suggest you read Isaiah, or look at who was in the Burning oven with Shadrack, Messhach, and Abindgo. Or who was with God when He made man...in our image...who was the plural of we?... Jesus. The OT and the NT are interwoven at so many levels.

reply to post by AlreadyGone


"The Christ" does not equal "Jesus Christ". Christ in Hebrew equals "anointed one" not Jesus' last name. Where in the OT does it say "Jesus Christ?

Silly Christians!

reply to post by earth2

"I see Christians worshipping a guy hanging on a cross, isn't that against the first commandment?"

Those aren't real Christians, we don't worship inanimate objects.

I have not fallen away from the catholic church, I left the church because God graciously opened my eyes to the truth, in answer to my asking him to show me. I would never go back to it.

It's not my place to judge. I will pray for you.

5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

From the Douay-Rheims Haydock Bible commentary on Timothy Chapter 2, verse 5-6:

"One mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus: who gave himself a redemption for all:

Take these words together, and we may easily understand in what sense the apostle calls our Saviour Christ, the one or only mediator: that is, He is the only mediator who could mediate betwixt God, the person offended by sin, and men the offenders: the only mediator who reconciled God to mankind by His incarnation and death, by the infinite price of His blood, by His own merits, independently of the merits of any other. All Catholics allow that the dignity and office of mediator in this sense belongs only to our Redeemer, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, made man to save us. The sense then of this place is, that as there is but ONE God, who created all, so there is but one mediator, who redeemed all.

But yet the name of mediator is not so appropriated to Christ, but that in an inferior and different sense the Angels and saints in heaven, and even men on earth, who pray to God for the salvation of others, may be called mediators, intercessors, or advocates; and we may apply ourselves to them to pray, intercede, and mediate for us, without any injury to Christ, since we acknowledge that all their intercession and mediation is always grounded on the merits of Christ, our Redeemer.

The same word for mediator, in the Greek as well as the Latin, is given to Moses, God's servant (Galatians 3, verse 19; and Deuteronomy Chapter 5, verse 5).

The words of our Saviour Himself, (Matthew Chapter 23), taken according to the letter, contain an express prohibition of being called masters or fathers; and this reason is given, because all men have one Father in heaven and because Christians have one master, Christ. Yet no one can justly pretend from thence, that in a different sense, a man may not be called father or master without any injury to God, or to Christ."

Another commentator re-states the above and continues:

"Christ is the one and only mediator of redemption; who gave Himself, as the apostle writes, a redemption for all. He is also the only mediator, who stands in need of no other to recommend his petitions to the Father.

But this is not against our seeking the prayers and intercessions as well of the faithful upon Earth, as of the saints and Angels in heaven, for obtaining mercy, grace, and salvation, through Jesus Christ. As St. Paul himself often desired the help of the prayers of the faithful, without any injury to the mediatorship of Jesus Christ."

A third commentator continues:

"If there be other mediators among the Angels and saints, they are only so in subordination to the first, who by themselves have no right to mediation or favors, and who cannot demand them but through the merits of Him who is our only essential mediator."

Of course the amount of times a name is mentioned is relevant! The Bible does everything possible TO downplay the importance of Mary. She was just another sinner like the rest of us, who went on to have at least 6 more children after she had Jesus and we will never know why God was gracious enough to pick her to become the mother of our Savior. THAT is why she was called blessed, not because she was sin free. She needed a savior just like the rest of us.

Let's see what the Catechism of the Catholic Church has to say about this:

Page 142, Catechism of the Catholic Church, 2nd edition:

"From among the descendants of Eve, God chose the Virgin Mary to be the mother of his Son. "Full of grace," Mary is "the most excellent fruit of redemption" (SC 103): from the first instant of her conception, she was totally preserved from the stain of original sin and she remained pure from all personal sin throughout her life."

Mary is truly "Mother of God" since she is mother of the eternal Son of God made man, who is God Himself."

Originally posted by The Wandering Spirit

Originally posted by blackthorne
reply to post by CookieMonster09

 

then why do priests say " any number hail mary's" after confession? you are in fact praying to mary! then why have saints with their likenesses on medals on chains? the catholics created a pantheon folded into doctrine.

You know Jesus' mother Mary is not the most mentioned woman in the Bible.....heck she isn't even the most mentioned MARY in the Bible....doesn't that say something....

Hi/
The Theotokos(God-bearer)is mentioned in the Old Testament as well as the New Testament.
In the Old Testament in Genesis....God said to the devil: "I shall put enmity between thee and the Woman, and between thy seed and Her Seed" (Genesis 3:15). It should be noted that during the time of the Old Testament the progeny were always called the seed or descendent of a male parent.
Only here is the Redeemer-to-Come referred to as the Seed of the Woman, and this was the first indication that He would have no human father. Many centuries afterward READ MORE

......the prophecy of Isaiah about the coming Messiah is that He will be God Himself.
Hence the title Theotokos — "birth-giver of God" — given to the Virgin Mary by the ancient Church.


"the Virgin shall accept into her womb and bear a Son, and shall name Him Emmanuel, which means: God is with us" (Isaiah 7:14).

The Theotokos is often called an Ark,
for the Glory of God settled on her,
just as the Glory of God descended on the Mercy Seat of the Old Testament Ark of the Covenant (Ex. 25:10-22).
Aaron's Rod..Burning Bush..(Golden) Candlestick...(Golden) Censer..etc.SOURCE

"Rejoice, O Blessed One, the Lord is with Thee!
Blessed art Thou among women!" announcing to Her the mystery of the conception of the Son of God.
A few days later with the words "Blessed is the Fruit of Thy womb," the righteous Elizabeth saluted the pure Virgin.
St. Luke explains in his Gospel that the Holy Spirit revealed to Elizabeth that Mary had become the Mother of the Lord, the promised Savior of mankind (Luke 1:28-42).


"God Himself shall give you a sign," explained the prophet Isaiah to the disbelieving descendants of king David, — "the Virgin shall accept into her womb and bear a Son, and shall name Him Emmanuel, which means: God is with us" (Isaiah 7:14).

The teachings of the Ancient Church have not changed their translation and meaning of the Bible ....it has not modernized it's teachings into some new modern deformed ideas of who God is.

ICXC NIKA
helen

Originally posted by CookieMonster09

Of course the amount of times a name is mentioned is relevant! The Bible does everything possible TO downplay the importance of Mary. She was just another sinner like the rest of us, who went on to have at least 6 more children after she had Jesus and we will never know why God was gracious enough to pick her to become the mother of our Savior. THAT is why she was called blessed, not because she was sin free. She needed a savior just like the rest of us.

Let's see what the Catechism of the Catholic Church has to say about this:

Page 142, Catechism of the Catholic Church, 2nd edition:

"From among the descendants of Eve, God chose the Virgin Mary to be the mother of his Son. "Full of grace," Mary is "the most excellent fruit of redemption" (SC 103): from the first instant of her conception, she was totally preserved from the stain of original sin and she remained pure from all personal sin throughout her life."

Mary is truly "Mother of God" since she is mother of the eternal Son of God made man, who is God Himself."

That may be what the catholic church (*MAN*) says, but what does the Word of God, the Bible say?

Paul says in Romans 3: 10 - 12

10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

Paul says again in Romans 3: 23

23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Thanks for the offer of your prayers, we can all use as many as possible in these end of days. You'll be in my prayers as well, directly to God through Jesus Christ.

Just remember, any church doctrine has to agree with the Bible or it's a "doctrine of devils" as the Bible also says.

We could debate various points forever, but its kind of pointless to continue because I have done a lot of research on this subject in the last few years and have read many articles written by scholars and other people both catholic and non-catholic.

What I found was that when comparing catholic doctrine against the Bible, the evidence shows that the catholic church goes against what it plainly says in the Bible, in many instances. I go by what the Bible says.

You seem like a sincere person who loves the Lord and wants to do the right thing. Maybe you should check out the link I gave you in a prior post.

There are a lot of articles there that compare catholic practices to the Bible. It is a site that is written by a former catholic priest. His testimony is very moving and explains why he left the church after spending most of his life preparing for and being a priest.

God Bless

sezsue

That may be what the catholic church (*MAN*) says, but what does the Word of God, the Bible say? Paul says in Romans 3: 10 - 12

It's important to take this quote from St. Paul in context. St. Paul, as you well know, preached the conversion of Jews and Gentiles to the Christian religion. This quote is in reference to the audience before him as he preached, wrote, and aimed to convert - Jews and Gentiles.

Here is the same quote from the Douay-Rheims, Romans 3:10-12:

"As it is written: 'There is not any man just:
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. All have turned out of the way, they are become unprofitable together: there is none that doth good, there is not so much as one."

From the Haydock commentary:

"There is not any man just....that is, by virtue either of the law of nature, or of the law of Moses: but only by faith and grace.

The apostle here adduces a series of passages from the ancient Scriptures, to convince both Jews and Gentiles, that not one amongst them was just, nor had any title to glory, on account of his good works. Not that a man could not be found under the old law, or even before the law; an infinite number of passages of Scripture will show the contrary: but he must be understood as speaking of man left to himself, as a son of Adam, conceived in sin, and brought forth a child of wrath."

Or, in other words, a man left alone to his own devices is without the saving grace of Christ. Under the Law of Moses, an "infinite" number of passages, as it states above, could show that there were men that were just on account of their good works. (I can think of not a few: Noah, Abraham, etc.)

Man, however, left to himself, without Christ, remains a son of Adam, conceived in sin, etc.

It is, therefore, through our faith in Christ, and the grace He gives us, that man understands, becomes righteous, etc.

Paul says again in Romans 3: 23

From the Douay-Rheims, Romans 3: 23:

"For all have sinned, and do need the glory of God."

Again, we need to take this quote in context, and remember Paul's audience. In this passage, he is directly speaking to the Jews who followed the Mosaic Covenant.

This whole passage is about the differences between the Old Mosaic Law, and the New Covenant brought about by Christ's death and resurrection. Paul is arguing to the Jews that Christ is the justifier of us all, and that the Old Mosaic Law is insufficient for salvation, justification, and sanctification.

What I found was that when comparing catholic doctrine against the Bible, the evidence shows that the catholic church goes against what it plainly says in the Bible, in many instances. I go by what the Bible says.

I understand that's what you believe - And here is the point where we diverge.

Over the centuries, the Catholic Church has been blessed with some of the most erudite, intellectual, and gifted Biblical scholars. Our monasteries and convents have allowed saints to spend their entire productive lives studying the Bible. The commentaries of some of our saints are nothing short of spectacular.

These are not ignorant theologians.

I would urge you to be sure to keep a good Biblical commentary handy so as to not misinterpret Scripture. Some of these Biblical passages you have quoted appear to be, with all due respect, taken out of context.

I would also suggest to you that sometimes what happens in an individual parish, does not necessarily represent the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Sometimes there is error at the local level, in terms of changes to the liturgy, doctrine, etc. You also have the philosophical bent of the priest - sometimes more liberal, sometimes more conservative.

You really have to look towards Rome, the writings of the Doctors of the Church, etc. to look beyond what you see happening at the individual parish level.

Catholic doctrine as outlined in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, does, in my humble opinion, follow closely along the lines of the Bible. Our saints, priests, monks, and nuns are and were all thoroughly versed in Scripture. Again, this is where we diverge.

Originally posted by earth2
I see Christians worshipping a guy hanging on a cross, isn't that against the first commandment?

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Yes those who bow down to a graven image are breaking that commandment.

The whole Catholic belief system is against God In My Opinion.

I am a pentecostal I believe in worship of God the way they did in Acts. Holy Ghost filled, Speaking in tongues, clapping, singing, dancing in the spirit holy roller.

The Catholic Church (not the people who believe they are doing the will of God ) I believe to be the harlot of Revelations.

They do not like and in some of their churches allow Bibles to be brought in. Which is contrary to the Bible as we are to search the scriptures ourselves. Not only hear it from some one else but to look it up and make sure that what we were told is true.

If you are a person who wishes to know, do not just accept what others tell you without some research yourself.

The Catholic Church (not the people who believe they are doing the will of God ) I believe to be the harlot of Revelations.

I am sorry that you believe this. Calling the Catholic Church a harlot is quite an accusation.

You might want to take a closer look at Catholic Charities - one of the arms of the Holy Roman Catholic Church engaged in philanthropy for the poor, hungry, and dispossessed. The Church is, by far, the most charitable organization on the planet, with thousands of schools, nursing homes, soup kitchens, etc. - all with the charitable purpose of helping others lead a better life.

They do not like and in some of their churches allow Bibles to be brought in. Which is contrary to the Bible as we are to search the scriptures ourselves.

I bring a Catholic Roman Missal to church every Sunday. The Missal contains the structure of the Mass, and Biblical readings for every single day of the year. The Roman Missal contains well over 700 pages of Biblical readings.

I am sure that if you brought anti-Catholic literature into a Catholic Church, they would likely ask you leave the book at the door out of respect for the Church.

Yes, there is nothing wrong with reading the Bible. The Catholic Church does not condemn Bible reading!

However, the Church does believe that Scripture can be twisted and misinterpreted if not read carefully under the proper guidance. Hence, the Church has all kinds of resources for Bible Study - classes, study aids, Bible study, audio, video, commentaries, etc. - to help someone learn the Bible. Many of these resources are open to the public.

In fact, the Liturgy of the Hours, which is the main prayer book for modern day Catholic priests, nuns, monks, and laity is a prayer book consisting of the Book of Psalms, as well as Biblical readings to be said daily.

To suggest or even hint that the Catholic Church is not in favor of Bible reading is patently untrue.

Others have touched upon this, but I'd still like to mention that one of the basic ideas in Christianity is that Jesus provided a so-called "New Covenant", essentially a new set of rules. He did say to keep the commandments, but also said that the most important commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself. Thus, you might say that any of Jesus' laws cannot be in contradiction with the Old Testament, because if they are then they take precedence.

reply to post by ToToo


By this post I can tell that you eaither haven't read the Bible, or have very low reading comprehension skills. If I were to speculate, I would say both. Don't critique something you know nothing about because it makes you look like an ass.

reply to post by NewlyAwakened


That's just like God, always changing the rules. Not.

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
reply to post by ToToo

 

Or who was with God when He made man...in our image...who was the plural of we?...

Dear God .... when people try to say something about the Bible not even having a BASIC knowledge of semitic grammar/syntax rules.

First of all, there is no plural "We" as in "many persons".
The we, which is connected to the Word "Elohim" is the MAJESTIC form of "Eloh" (Allah) -> God.
Elohim is the HIGHER form of it.
In Qur'an God also many times speaks as "We did this" or "We commanded...", which is normal, since arabic is also a semitic language like Hebrew.

In German you use the higher form of respect to address people you are not befriended on personal level, so you say e.g. "Sie sind hier."
It means something like:

"You" (as in plural majestic you)
are (plural)
here

but it is never used nor MEANT to be used to address MORE THAN ONE PERSON.

I wish people would stop drawing conlusions on matters they have absolutely no idea about.

God, in the Old Testament is an absolute MONOTHEISTIC GOD.
Never in any form whatsover more than one person.

reply to post by skajkingdom


Well i never thought i would see myself replying and agreeing with a muslim but here i am doing just that. This of all that i have read is probobly the most well said thing in this thread. I honestly never knew that and have always been quite curious about the WE refered to in the bible. That being said i also know for a fact that christianity is repleat with misinterpretations of the old testament due to poor translations of words into english from aramaic or greek translations. I have tried to convice people in the past of this and that some of the very same notions christianity has of the devil and lucifer are misunderstood because of some simple word mistranslations.

People need to have a good understanding of linguistics and the history of the peoples and cultures of the time that is being read about in the old testament before making presumptuous judgements about the books of the old testament. Its very easy to make quick snap judgements and throw together crazy threads like this based upon little to no information or rather information gained from a sidelong glance at what judaeo/christian doctrine is about.

I once had a conversation with a pagan about christianity and i ended it after i soon discovered that the individual ( who was a teenager) couldnt even tell me the origins of christianity. They had no idea that the old testament was jewish. So many people dont have the very faintest clue of what they are talking about or even the history of the subject they are discussing yet they feel they are experts on it. Makes me crazy sometimes. So i agree with you regarding your comment.

I also agree with the person who said to study. This is so important i cannot stress it enough. Blind faith to me is stupid. To accept without question is scary. It means that you open yourself to false doctrines and false prophets who are good confidence men. I think questioning what is written and wanting to know its origins and meaning is the beggining of wisdom in respects to religion.

Also there have been so many denominations and sects of christianity since its birth. Some have thrived while others died out either due to lack of interest or by eradication depending on what stories you choose to believe. History is full of peoples who have twisted and used the words of the bible to further political ends and to control the people especially with fear. Hell just look at the inquisitions for starters. How many wars have been waged in the name of gods words or rather should i say our understanding of them.

In understanding the context of what you speak about Op you need to know that there is worship and then there is veneration. Personally i think its a fine line to cross but i think catholics do worship even though they comfort themselves with the fact they are told by their priests they do not worship but venerate symbols. Eh well to each their own i say. Personally i think god could be a little more active in this world than playing sky daddy and leaving all the personal appearances for the old testament and letting all the new souls dance on the edge of a religous sword hoping not to get cut. I myself have not only walked away from one particular denomination but from the whole of christianity itself. Oh i am well read and educated but what has that gotten me. I also questioned and sought answers and i also obtained some measure of truth. The truth i found is that man has perverted the very nature of what god is and has USED god to further his own ends. It has never been about god or what we can do for him but how our serving him can help us. How far would god get if there were no consequences for not believing in him. If we recieved the same reward in eternity regardless then i would dare say people would mostly choose to live their lives by their standards and not gods. So again in the end you worship and follow gods laws and words out of self preservation and not PURE love for a invisible spirit who you arent even sure is there. Most christians i have met would answer the question of why would you be afraid to go against god and the answer wouldnt be because it would hurt him, it would be because i would go to hell.

I love jesus's words and wisdom and philosophy. That being said i also equally like the words of buddha and lao tzu. Great ways to live ones life and ways of treating your fellow man which is what in the end i think jesus was all about. The fact that if you first and fore most love god above all things and then in that same love treat your fellow man with love how can anything you do from that point on be evil. If you approach everything you do or say in this life with that love in your heart then your covered.

When people bicker and argue of translations and meanings and some want to apply an esoteric meaning while others insist on a literal meaning to a specific word and then we decide to fight over who is right or wrong and then kill each other or blow up some building to make our point, then we have ALL fallen so far from whatever grace god chose to give us through any sacrifice of his own that we dont deserve any of it. This is what amazes me so much about how god is still forgiving even in the face of all we do and have done in his name.


edited to add that now i think i will read the quran if it comes in an english translation. Its one book i admit i have never ever picked up and read and i honestly dont know why except out of fear which is ridiculous. I have read and studied the bible and have also studied alot of the Tanakh as well as educating myself on the pseudepigrapha ( 1 and 2 enoch and the book of jubilees to name a few) and old testament apocrypha, so i guess knowing about the evil muslim religion should be next on my list unless for some reason i fear knowledge. ( was being sarcastic about the evil comment)

I liked the quote about not a leaf falls without him knowing.



[edit on 20-5-2010 by fizzy1]

[edit on 20-5-2010 by fizzy1]

Genesis 1:26- And God said, Let us make man according to our image and likeness, and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the flying creatures of heaven, and over the cattle and all the earth, and over all the reptiles that creep on the earth.

Genesis 3:22-And God said, Behold, Adam is become as one of us, to know good and evil, and now lest at any time he stretch forth his hand, and take of the tree of life and eat, and [so] he shall live forever--

Genesis 11:7 -Come, and having gone down let us there confound their tongue, that they may not understand each the voice of his neighbour.

“Isaiah 6:10- And I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go to this people?
And I said, behold, I am [here], send me. And he said, Go, and say to this people,
9 Ye shall hear indeed, but ye shall not understand; and ye shall see indeed, but ye shall not perceive.
10 For the heart of this people has become gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

The above prophecy is fullfilled by the Lord Jesus Christ...

Also an interesting subject on ''Hebrew is Greek''
HERE
If Hebrew originated from the Greek, then alot of the mistranslations of the Bible we have today, have been answered!
Who or why would want the Alpha and Omega not known?

Isaiah 48:12 ''Hear me, O Jacob, and Israel whom I call; I am the first, and I endure for ever.''
ΗΣΑΪΑΣ...῎Ακουέ μου, ᾿Ιακὼβ καὶ ᾿Ισραήλ, ὃν ἐγὼ καλῶ· ἐγώ εἰμι πρῶτος, καὶ ἐγώ εἰμι εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα''

Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith God the King of Israel, and the God of hosts that delivered him; I am the first, and I am hereafter: beside me there is no God.

“Before Abraham was I am.” (John 8:58)
And in the Book of the Apocalypse....
It is done!
I am the Alpha and the Omega,
the Beginning and the End.
To the thirsty I will give water without price from the fountain of life.
He who conquers shall have this inheritance, and I will be his God and he shall be My son (Revelation 21:6-7).


ICXC NIKA
helen

I always thought the broadest way the religions contridict the commandments is by ignoring 'Do not kill'.

Not only did the people ignore it...but God himself makes a plan (so they say) to where man MUST kill his son so there can be salvation.

Its backwards I say....very backwards and people should not just accept...but think, weigh it, sift it, measure it.

How in the world we make a better world or bring on salvation for ourselves through killing others....by going against a commandment...is beyond me.

This was my first step away from my religion of Christianity for so long. Since then I have found many other reasons that the path was not a Holy path with a Divine result.

I dont need reply's trying to explain it all to me, Ive heard it all by now and studied it deeply myself for personal understanding. I feel it was actually the Holy Spirit and Jesus who led me away from that religion and am thankful I opened my mind to them so I could be shown what was going on.

here we go with more christianity bashing.

why cant you mentally handi-capped atheists leave people alone to worship how they see fit?

Yes i know your 'only asking a question'.

But you atheists constantly demean christians intelligence and pretty much make fun of them for 'worshiping some imaginary friend hurr durr'.

would you folks grow up?

Most of you atheists on ATS show classic signs of elitism. 'you believe in god so im smarter then you'.

There are two kinds of atheists in this worl.

1) The rare atheists who does not believe in god themself but is neutral to all religions and everything that is religious.

2)The most commen atheist...the angry,vengeful,snobby,elitist atheist. The kind of atheist that was took to church every sunday...and he hated it. Not so much that he does not believe in god( he says he does not)but will then turn around and curse and spit and obsess over the 'stupid christians'. They will go out of there way to make christians lives miserable. They will constantly demean and try to prove to christians 'the error of there foolish ways'.


Unfortunently the average atheist on ATS is 2.

This thread is chock full of them.

Know whats sad and ironic(sad because you cant see it)you spend more time worried about a god that does not exist then its own followers do.