“Joe Legal” and “Jose Illegal”

You know, after this long winded thread. I think one thing is very clear. None of us are right. But not because we are wrong. These are extremely similar debates that took place during the original Alien and Sedition Acts. They divided us then, and shaped our political ideologies to create terrible foreign and domestic policies. And they have apparently brought us full circle.

Maybe we can all agree that neither side is necessarily wrong. That each side has equally as valid views. Each with a hope for a peaceful and prosperous solution for all.

The problem I see though, made especially apparent in this last page is that none of us really has a resounding solution that could bring about any real change aside from the status quo with a new face.

I've come to accept that my behavior was pretty abhorrent. Primarily ego fueled to stress my firm stance and disgust for bigotry and racism. These are harsh words, but accurately describe some of the stereotypes presented here. However true that is I didn't take into account the firm held beliefs of those I was criticizing and the emotions they have in regards to the challenges it presents them. So I dismissed them immediately, and that's unfortunate.

My behavior and I hope others can admit, are the standard example of the issues that have been dividing us for so long. It's the arguing that has been separating us. The back and forth of dismissal.

Each of us has a solid belief, like a piece to a puzzle. But it feels like we all argue over which puzzle we go to. Rather than realizing we all go to the same puzzle, and need to find our proper place in this society. No matter what ethnic background we have inherited through our birth right or country some may have emigrated from.

So I ask, as I've been asked. Does anyone have a solution? Has anyone tried to speak with any local representatives or press regarding the issue with a proposal?

I see all the politicians promising an answer, at the cost of our rights. And we have continually forsaken them for the security and prosperity they have brought. But it feels as if that prosperity as at an end, and this time they seek more of our rights with no security or prosperity in turn.

So can anyone offer a solution that will cease the arguing separating us, and instead unite us in commonality despite our backgrounds without costing us our rights.

I think I'm going to take up the challenge. I'm going to study the blooms of the Alien and Sedition Acts thoroughly down to it's root including anything I can find of merit in relation to it. I will see if anyone can meet the challenge with a real solution to unite us all.

If I or anyone can complete this, would anyone here help grass root it through your communities?

Because this really does need to end. We need to devise a solution with our words, rather than reiterate our division amongst each other.

It may sound cheesy, who cares. It's honest.

[edit on 14-5-2010 by mryanbrown]

how does jose get welfare sans SSN?

answer me this!

Originally posted by antonia

Originally posted by Night Star
And so we go around and around in circles getting nowhere.

So, what is your ultimate solution? That everyone just agree with you? This issue has always been divisive. It always will be divisive.

[edit on 14-5-2010 by antonia]

Yeah unfortunately.. It always will be divisive failure by design, the US/Mexico border is a frustrating joke on purpose.

THINK about it, the DNC & GOP politicians (& Fed Govt) who chronically FAIL to deploy the mother of all border solutions: a nuclear Tampon strike "Operation stop the flow".. are the very same people who benefit the most... same withe the bogus war on terror / drugs.

It's all a freaking never ending scam the man doesn't want solved... committees, fact finding missions, hearings, fences, harsh speeches promising change, military bases/assistance.. all the same re-cycled circus acts of last generation.

The united states will never do anything it looks like about Illegals IMMIGRANTS. I think everyone who is in American Legal should get 350 000 dollars each year for every year that Immigrants have came here Illegally

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
Does ATS really need to be the place to clutter with chain emails.


I'm going to have to ask you for proof of every single claim you just copy/pasted there.

Go ahead...I'll be waiting.

I'll give you a real life example:
2 years ago, I had to go to the emergency room. When I arrived, I was asked for my drivers license and INSURANCE CARD. Shortly after, a family who only spoke spanish arrived...they waited for a doctor who could speak spanish...the family was never asked for ID or insurance oh and they never signed anything. The daughter, as it turned out, had the flu...they were given a prescription and left. A month later, I received a $1862.00 bill and a $624.00 bill. Wanna guess how much they paid ????

I really like this thread and especially the association to the construction industry.

Illegals and the crooked companies hiring them, are destroying both the construction and landscaping industries in the US.

Starred and Flagged !!!

Um every time I post in these threads on this topic I offer a solution. I feel ignored!

Stamp out the source. The source is employers. The source is also our government and state governments who make humans the targeted villains not the crooks who hire the humans to work.

reply to post by beyondsense


And exactly how was pointing out that this country can't just have an open floodgate on the southern border states selfish?

reply to post by Johnze


You're a f***ing idiot, nothing personal. Do you even know the definition of racism?!!

"belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race" - DICTIONARY

Nothing racist in the OP. He could be the same 'race' as some of the illegals (yes, there are more than just latino illegal immigrants, get over your liberal bull-crap) for all you know anyway.

Seriously, race is only brought into an argument when a mental midget can't comprehend what the grown-ups are talking about, or they generally disagree but have no legit argument of their own to rebut with.

sorry for the rant, but that bullsh*t is why these threads/ideas/conversations never get any where.

Originally posted by nunya13

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07


Forgive me if I am "naive" but if they are UNDOCUMENTED how do they APPLY for state welfare? Do they show their mexican id or what? Don't the state officials report these people to INS? Don't they get deported? Doesn't the employer VIOLATE inter-state commerce laws by hiring illegals? Doesn't he have to pay a fine?

You've reiterated the real issue here very nicely. People scream, "OMG...they are on foodstamps and welfare!", without even taking into account WHO THE HELL is giving them the foodstamps and welfare. Same goes for the jobs. Hehehehe...."They jerk er jerb!!!" I love that episode. Matt and Trey are brilliant.

I am against illegal immigration but at the same time I don't like hypocrisy.

Every developed country has a serious problem with illegal immigrants but nobody bothers to examine the culprits...curing the disease itself rather than treating the symptoms.

WHY DO ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS GET WELFARE SUPPORT FROM THE STATE IF THEY ARE UNDOCUMENTED? Sure you can go to LA, NYC or some other big city and get fake papers but eventually the data will be crosschecked between state/federal agencies and you will be caught red-handed.

Most of the illegals DO NOT BOTHER going on welfare and avoid confronting authorities AT ALL COSTS so they can sneak under the radar and work illegaly. They are NOT HERE to drain government funds, THEY ARE HERE TO MAKE A QUICK BUCK and go back to mexico to make something of themselves. As an employer and employee in NJ I have worked with many mexicans, costa ricans, ecuadorians, guatemalans, etc and almost all WANT A QUICK BUCK so they can help their families back home. This is the real issue!

As for the illegals down south and for gang warfare this is a very complex issue and clearly city/state/federal authorities are showing little-to-no concern. They are ORGANISED RACKETS engaging in drug peddling, selling fake documents, illegal gambling, prostitution and "private insurance". However they don't import drugs because they are not in the import/export business. They are simply the "illuminati" middle-man!

Who is doing the importing and exporting then? THE SAME PEOPLE WHO WANT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION BUT PRETEND THEY DON'T! It is all about putting up a big fireworks display to buy votes from the naive conservatives that vote for them.

I've read some supposed illegals saying that calling them "illegal" is offensive, profiling, and racist! To which someone asks, "Well, are you indeed illegal?" To which they respond "Well, yes but..." Hahaha

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
Um every time I post in these threads on this topic I offer a solution. I feel ignored!

Stamp out the source. The source is employers. The source is also our government and state governments who make humans the targeted villains not the crooks who hire the humans to work.

I do think the employers are a big portion of the problem and employers should face SEVERE penalties for employing illegals.

In short, I completely agree with you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Blazer
I've read some supposed illegals saying that calling them "illegal" is offensive, profiling, and racist! To which someone asks, "Well, are you indeed illegal?" To which they respond "Well, yes but..." Hahaha

I guess my response to those ILLEGALS who don't like being called an ILLEGAL because being called an ILLEGAL is offensive to them is.....then don't be an ILLEGAL. ILLEGALS made the CHOICE to be an ILLEGAL.
We call murderers...MURDERERS.
We call thieves...THIEVES.
etc...
for a reason.

ILLEGALS are CRIMINALS and we shouldn't care about their feelings just like we shouldn't care that murderers don't like being called murderers.

reply to post by jfj123


Illegals aren't criminals. And calling someone an illegal because they disagree with you and their skin color is darker, is ignorant.

Originally posted by mryanbrown
reply to post by jfj123

 

Illegals aren't criminals. And calling someone an illegal because they disagree with you and their skin color is darker, is ignorant.

Actually ILLEGALS
ARE
Criminals thus the name ILLEGAL...
Not understanding that is...Ignorant
And being ILLEGAL has nothing to do with skin color my friend.

Originally posted by mryanbrown
reply to post by jfj123

 

Illegals aren't criminals.

And hence, these three oxymoronic words do more to explain my infuriation with illegal apologists than anything else on this Earth.

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
Um every time I post in these threads on this topic I offer a solution. I feel ignored!

Stamp out the source. The source is employers. The source is also our government and state governments who make humans the targeted villains not the crooks who hire the humans to work.

you feel that why because you are offering a COMMON SENSE solution


The rest of the "SKY IS FALLING" crowd ignore that and they prefer the attention seeking YELLS of "Immigrants will eat your children"

It's Pure FEAR peddled, principally by FOX News and then embellished by Right Wing , Neo Nazi pamphleteers on this forum

[edit on 15-5-2010 by dalek]

reply to post by dalek

So the employers are now the enforcers of citizenship laws?

Employer: Your papers, please.
Applicant: Wo, hombre. What you thinkin man? You think I not born here? Why mon? Cuz I'm not white like YOU mon? You know what? I got my machete in the truck mon,, I be right back!

ENTER THE PERSONAL INJURY LIBERAL LAWYER....

Applicant: I know I kill him, but, people say I had the right.
LIBERAL LAWYER: Did he violate your rights?
Applicant: I doan know, airbody tells me, yeah. Who are you? You doan need no ID or nothin' right?
LIBERAL LAWYER: No, of course not, I respect your rights and together, we can make some money,
hombre.
Applicant: I luv America.

reply to post by Stewie



are you on drugs?

Originally posted by Stewie
So the employers are now the enforcers of citizenship laws?

I just started a new job and besides the normal background checks they ran, I had to provide them with proof of citizenship. Granted, my line of work is OCD over security, but all the same, it was nice to see a company go the extra step to ensure they are above the bar.