Should the American Flag Be Banned -- in America?

Originally posted by Tie No Bows!
reply to post by Freeborn

 

First of all, this is my second response to you, my first contravened probably every single one of the T&C and would probably have gotten me a permanent ban, something I don't really want.

Erh...check yer facts pal! The other countries in your much vaunted 'Union' were robbed of their emblem and had it strapped to that english rag whether they liked it or not!

Check your facts you arrogant ignoramous.
The Union flag came into being when King James VI of Scotland became King James I of England and combined the two nations flags to signify The Union for ships at sea.

I'm sure you must have forgotten that King James was a Scotsman.

Who did what to who then?

ENGLISH financial interests encouraged and abbetted the current inflow of immigrants that are so unhappy with yer wee flag!

True to a point.
However, the use of St Georges Cross has been discouraged for quite some time now as TPTB wished to promote The Union rather than our individual national identities.
The other countries quite rightly stood by their own national flags and emblems, as we wish to do now.

Why is it arrogant and racist to be a proud Englishman yet it is a resepcted and proud tradition for Scots to be proud Scotsmen?

Hypocrisy and double standards!

As it stands now, Im more than happy for you to wave yer wee red cross as your own, as we certainly have the right to display ours...

Well that's awfully decent and honourable of you and I appreciate you letting me.

As if you could stop me?

And why shouldn't I? I think it's perfectly ok for you to do so.

Only difference is I am being honest and genuine whilst you are attempting to be condescending.

...Oh wait a minute, Your national anthem....the racist one that clearly states encouraging the crushing of the scottish race? Nah...stuff yer flag!

I think you will find that is why it is rarely, if ever, sang now...but yes, it should have been struck out years ago, but wtf, it's a crap anthem anyway, it sounds like a funeral dirge and it glorifies one person rather than The BRITISH people, but hey, until I can convince enough people that it should be changed I'm still going to sing it, especially in front of the type of and section of Scots society that you represent.

Oh, and so you mean God Save The Queen, the UK National Anthem.

For info, not that I suppose you in your ignorance would be even slightly interested, but, there is a movement for an English National Anthem to be officially recognised, just like the discriminated Scots and Welsh have.

Rather not mention Ireland? I can see why off course!

My opinions on both Northern ireland, The British Union and The Republic Of Ireland are well known on here and have been aired on numerous ooccassions.

If you want to start a thread on that by all means do so and I'll gladly contribute, but it's not for here.

My point was that Americans tend to have a very blinkered and uninformed opinion on the subject.

Because the sole causeof the current 'troubles' was Charles II policy of surplanting the indigenouse irish catholic population, with new english and scottish farmers. When it wasnt going too well, the great Oliver Cromwell laid waste to the country, slaughtering men women and children as gods work!

Quack quack oops!

Oliver Cromwell, who preceeded Charles II, started the policy of surplanting.

Cromwell was a great parliamentarian but a complete and utter religous bigot who can only be described as a bit of a bastard.

But come on, it was 400 years ago

I wish we had a modern day Cromwell, minus the religous bigotry bit, who would sort these modern day pieces of crap out!

Yer Queens a Kraut.

Yep, and a reptile.

Yer countries run by the tribe.

Isn't everybody...and hell, from one The Masons strongholds.

Pot - Black - Kettle anyone?

Yer being flooded by the rest of countries ye shagged for years.

What, and The Scots played no part in it.
Some, if not quite a lot. of the biggest makers and shapers in the formation and upkeep and profiteering of The British Empire were Scotsmen, a fact you conveniently seem to ignore and forget.

And you have the audacity to come on here feigning empathy with the USA, who if you remember you also tried to shag till they slapped you back.

And you have the audacity to come on here throwing personal insults and downright racist comments just because you have an over inflated opinion of you and your country.

And just who the hell do you think you are to accuse me of lying in my 'empathy' for the USA.
You nothing about me, my opinions or my life.



You and your ilk disgust me with your moaning and whinging. You do nothing but complain about how you've been # on by The English and how everything is 'The English' fault.
You are unable to accept any responsibility for the the state your country is in.

Fortunately I know a hell of a lot of Scots people and I know that you are not representative of the population as a whole.

I am also a frequent visitor to both Glasgow and less so Edinburgh.
I'm sure we could arrange to meet up and discuss this at more length in person.

I assure you, I would be perfectly willing to.

Get back in your hole REDCOAT!!!

That is so laughable, is that supposed to cause offence?

It makes no sense why they would want that. ITS AMERICA!

Looks to me like a completely, manufactured news item. One probably only desighned to push up news ratings, so they can continue with an even more lame "news" (propaganda) service.

I'm sure these "statistical facts" (comissioned by the defender of jouranilism, no other than Fox News itself) will have made just about any American, who thinks of themselves as American (i.e. guessing) (about 80 percent) completely outraged.

Being outraged I'm sure many remained glued their TV, determined to see how the debate played out. And all in the hope that the side that argues: "the American flag is the sumbol of what makes us American" survives the leftist-lunatic arguments, and for the sake of all Americans wins!!!

Truly gripping TV?
I think not (at least not when you've got used to realising we have a mainstream media, that's often far superior, to the media, found in many dictatorships).

reply to post by Doc Velocity


I must be getting old and soft, Doc; that excerpt from General Patton's speech brought a tear to my eye. Why? Because it epitomized the pride and patriotism that I felt when I went to war. We don't hold ground, we advance, or die trying.

I am a dinosaur, an ancient creature that my younger contemporaries scorn as a worn-out anachronism that has lived beyond its usefulness. Nevermind that there isn't a young man in our community that can keep up with this old bastard where concrete work is concerned.

Okay, I drifted. That won't get better with age, I don't suppose. I think the thing that some don't realize about the flag -- and we're speaking about the United States flag, but it could be ANY nation's inherent, sovereign symbology -- is that it represents the struggles and the blood and dedication of those who were willing to battle for its reinforcement. See, for some the flag of their country is just a collection of colors that represent their nation. For others, those colors are the very embodiment of the pulse of the country. For those who didn't know that the Star-Spangled Banner written by Francis Scott Key in 1814 had four heartfelt verses, here it is:

Oh, say can you see by the dawn's early light
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars thru the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streaming?
And the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
Oh, say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

On the shore, dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In full glory reflected now shines in the stream:
'Tis the star-spangled banner! Oh long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country should leave us no more!
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved home and the war's desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust."
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

Many people who bother to read through this verbose post will be surprised that there is more than what we've memorized and sung as kids. Others who really read and understand what the author was feeling and how it relates to the formation and sustaining of a national ideal.

I was very impressed with your treatise on liberty. You really stuck you landing on that one. Keep up the good work, and for those of you that might ridicule me as the rantings of a 52-year-old has-been, well, I would say that (1) a has-been exceeds the parameters of a person who didn't ever strive to meet their potential and (2) come and work beside me on concrete day. Then, we'll see.

reply to post by ebombstheworld

I'm newer here, but I think you guys are making a perfect case as to why the flag should be banned. The amount of times violence against "flag banners" has been hinted at in this thread is scary.

This is the exact reason that the flag SHOULD be banned. Calling for violence against someone because of an insult to a flag is ridiculous

This will seem like extreme nationalism. There are those who bled and those who died and those who wept for your right burn or disgrace the flag. I'm not suggesting that you do, or that you even want to. It's just that the inherent passion for the ideals represented by the American flag are, for some, something worth defending.

I agree with you that folks like myself need to temper their ideals with some modicum of sensibility when talking about responding to someone insulting the flag. I would not kill anyone for injuring it, and I think that the precepts of freedom of speech support the right of anyone to disgrace it, even though that is repugnant to me.

I never thought that burning the flag should be against the law. I'm talking about burning the flag as a demonstration, not the respectful 'burial' of a damaged flag. No, I never thought that it should be against the law, but I also don't think that someone who wants to make a public spectacle of disgracing the American flag on American soil should be protected from having their asses kicked. If you know that the act you are about to perform riles the nationalistic passions in people and you do it anyway, haven't you willfully created your situation? I belive so, although I admit it's a legal conundrum.

I disagree, Ebombs, that the American flag should ever be banned in the United States. It is not the innocent flag that creates the problems. It is those who wish to wipe their backsides with it that create the violence. Why should they be rewarded?

Originally posted by Liberal1984
Looks to me like a completely, manufactured news item. One probably only desighned to push up news ratings, so they can continue with an even more lame "news" (propaganda) service.

I'm sure these "statistical facts" (comissioned by the defender of jouranilism, no other than Fox News itself) will have made just about any American, who thinks of themselves as American (i.e. guessing) (about 80 percent) completely outraged.

The post in disingenious in it's originality. Some vital information was left out of the OP, and I requested that the thread be moved to HOAX or the Grey Area at the least.

I called them out on it here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

and here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And it turns out it was a troll by chan/4/ and possibly ebaumsworld.com

www.abovetopsecret.com...

in an effort to inflame people.

They clicked the poll into the negative on purpose. So many people have fallen for this, it is a shame.


[edit on 14-5-2010 by Libertygal]

reply to post by Libertygal


Thanks for your reseach and dilligence, Libertygal. I fully admit that I allowed my own flames of patriotism to be fannned.

Still, I don't think it was a wasted exercise. Good to have an idea of who perpetrated this propaganda. I'm not surprised. I'd have had no idea without your investigations. Thanks again.

~the olde pharte retires to the coconut cabana with overly-sweet tropical adult beverage, marshalling strength to express his angst another day ~

If our flag is ever abolished then it will most certainly be the end of America.

reply to post by argentus


I loved the passion in your posts, it's more of whats needed, IMO.

And FOX never skews things into inflammatory, incendiary, yellow journalism, does it?

Now that the pea brains & brainless are all excited . . .

The advertisers have gotten maximum viewers

and idiots have mistaken the Constitutional United States with a piece of cloth.

I don't really care too much about the flag,

I DO care about the United States & how it is run.

Not just another plastic & silicone brain-dead pseudo-patriot.

When I was much younger I spent some summers in the U.S.

OK! this was a long time ago so maybe I don't remember this correctly - but I think an old man who lived near my relatives once told me that the Stars & stripes flag and its origin, was from the beginning a flag for some Corporation?

I think he said that the flag was modified from the flag of the Corporation of the 'East Indian Company' and something related to the Virginia Corporation for the colonies?

Does anyone know if I remember this correctly?

Could this be correct?

[edit on 14-5-2010 by Chevalerous]

I dont buy this that the results were skewed. Yes I have seen the post by Libertygal and those people voted as per their wish. The results speak for themselves. If the results were in your favor it's all right if it's not they are manipulated lol..complete hypocrisy. You can blame anyone you want too thats what people do when they find things are not in their favor blame others.

And I voted yes because it's just a symbol the real sense in being American isnt material. I cannot understand the 26.6% who voted NO they want to put the kids life in danger over some material which is most probably made in China. To the hell with that...I will vote yes everytime a poll like that comes up.



[edit on 15-5-2010 by Crimson_King]

The poll is obviously in response to the flap in California over the teens wearing the U.S. flag on Cino de Mayo.....the headline of Infowars is totally misleading. A poll is totally different than Fox itself saying it...obviously Fox put up the poll thinking it would get a resounding "hell no" (Hannity does this stunt all the time) but instead it backfired and apparently there are a lot of stupid Americans that said the U.S. flag should be banned. I say, kick them south of the border and let them fly another flag.

Originally posted by Crimson_King
I dont buy this that the results were skewed. Yes I have seen the post by Libertygal and those people voted as per their wish. The results speak for themselves. If the results were in your favor it's all right if it's not they are manipulated lol..complete hypocrisy. You can blame anyone you want too thats what people do when they find things are not in their favor blame others.

And I voted yes because it's just a symbol the real sense in being American isnt material. I cannot understand the 26.6% who voted NO they want to put the kids life in danger over some material which is most probably made in China. To the hell with that...I will vote yes everytime a poll like that comes up.

[edit on 15-5-2010 by Crimson_King]

The flag puts people in danger? What the hell are you talking about? in some neighborhoods certain colors can put you in danger, I say we ban the colors red, purple and blue. They're dangerous I tells ya! While we're at it ban the Nike swoosh and Puma's...Puma it makes people feel aggressive and one is after a Greek God, for Christ's sake think of how much violence it could cause?! Oh god, I've got on a blue shirt right now, better go get my gun and start digging a hole and wait for a government agent to come take it away from me so I don't get hurt.

[edit on 15-5-2010 by yellowcard]

Originally posted by slank
And FOX never skews things into inflammatory, incendiary, yellow journalism, does it?

Now that the pea brains & brainless are all excited . . .

The advertisers have gotten maximum viewers

and idiots have mistaken the Constitutional United States with a piece of cloth.

I don't really care too much about the flag,

I DO care about the United States & how it is run.

Not just another plastic & silicone brain-dead pseudo-patriot.

Except, that flag does represent the Constitutional United States in at least one way...it's called freedom of speech. I can wear an American flag t-shirt if I damn well want to, and you impeding on that right by banning it... is a violation of that Constitution of the United States....I guess you didn't think that through too much People can wear a swastika around, I hardly see how the U.S. flag is more inflammatory.

Originally posted by zerotime
It's a flag. It is a piece of died cloth used by governments to screw over the peasants. As an American, if I had to identify the biggest problem of America, I would say it is our undying worship of inanimate objects.

Oh voted Yes on that poll because it's on Fox News and because I can.



[edit on 14-5-2010 by zerotime]

I beg to differ with you, the US Flag isn't a piece of dyed cloth, the true standard is with sewn Stars & Stripes! I'm also sad to see such rant about this Symbol and with Fox or anyone who would design a poll, that would suggest any type of reference of banning Ol' Glory for whatever freak'n reason or ratings! I

I'm not happy one bit with all the # going on with the government & low-lifes in charge of running it on our behalf....but that's them....not our America or it's Flag!

It seems that even those that claim to be Patriotic or All American have forgotten what that Piece Of Cloth as you say truly is or means!

As for Fox and the other media, I direct you all to the following:

UNITED STATES CODE
TITLE 36
CHAPTER 10

www.usflag.org...

And for you zerotime
& others, as True Americans you should have known these as well! Especially
Sect 176 (J)

[edit on 15-5-2010 by Iam4Iam]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/beca69288f85.png[/atsimg]

4chan's Anonymous is claiming responsibility for rigging the poll. They have been known to mess around with polls in the past, so it wouldn't surprise me if this entire thing was done by them "for the lulz."

Originally posted by ziggy1706
If they ban the flag, which is morally wrong,

Where is the moral part??

reply to post by boondock-saint


pretty soon, you'll have the first mexican/american president and you'll need to know spanish to order your big mac combo.

it's only fair, you stole the land from the native americans now the mexicans are stealing it from you.