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Should the American Flag Be Banned -- in America?

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posted on May, 14 2010 @ 01:01 AM
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I won't be getting rid of my flag, but this is a petty and nonsensical discussion because they will not ban the flag.


That argument has been played out;

they wont pass the Patriot Act
they wont use it on Americans
they wont label their own citizens potential terrorists (or better yet they might but they would never enforce it)

Need I continue?




posted on May, 14 2010 @ 01:03 AM
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Meh.

I could care less about what they do with the United States flag.

I have a flag:





posted on May, 14 2010 @ 01:09 AM
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Originally posted by RRokkyy
You cant go inside the system, only the elite rich and powerful can go there.
You already are powerless.
You will be absorbed or displaced.

And yet I'm inside the System everyday, I'm inextricably working in the guts of the System, and I'm pushing buttons, baby, you better believe it.

My power is... well... discussing one's source of power is tantamount to giving it up. You hold back power, my friend, you direct power in certain ways to achieve specific goals. I don't think anyone possesses power any more than one can possess fire.

When I have federal agents knocking at my door — as in the spring of 2002 — then I know I'm flexing my balls and somebody is noticing. When the Anti-Defamation League features one of my less-offensive quotes as an example of "violent speech" in their Report on Violent Speech in America, then I know I'm flexing my balls and somebody is noticing.

And I've been writing incendiary stuff since 1985, so I know they're watching me.

Call it what you will. I'm not out to acquire power, but power has a way of gravitating to those with the biggest balls.

And I have no problem with fighting the System from within. The rich, the elite — in the end, they're just people, and people can be influenced. By me. You can do it, too, if you have the nerve and initiative to try it.

— Doc Velocity




[edit on 5/14/2010 by Doc Velocity]



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 01:13 AM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by RRokkyy
 





You cant go inside the system, only the elite rich and powerful can go there. You already are powerless. You will be absorbed or displaced.


All systems tend towards entropy. The system you are advocating, that one you claim we are all powerless to enter, is a useless system, and we will not be absorbed or displaced, those of us who understand entropy will work towards building a better system. It would be nice to do it with you, but since you seem so intent on surrendering, all I can do is wish you well, and maybe fly a flag or two at your parade.


Power/wealth tend to become centralized in human systems which is the opposite of entropy or disorder. This is the history of human civilization with slavery and warfare as its central characteristics. I dont see any change on the horizon. Technology is just making it easier to centralize wealth and power.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 01:21 AM
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reply to post by RRokkyy
 





Power/wealth tend to become centralized in human systems which is the opposite of entropy or disorder. This is the history of human civilization with slavery and warfare as its central characteristics. I dont see any change on the horizon. Technology is just making it easier to centralize wealth and power.


Aristotle, in his book Politics described the cycles of revolution, and he was describing those cycles since time immemorial, that point being that today, Aristotle comes from the age of time immemorial and those cycles remain the same. That cycle comes down the the paradigm you offered, only Aristotle termed it the have's and the have not's. When the gap between the have's and the have not's get so big that the have not's can no longer survive, they revolt and overthrow the regime that is filled with the have's, and then usually engage in some sort of wealth redistribution. Once this has happened, apathy sets in with the have not's and the have's begin the slow and steady process of accumulating wealth again, until the gap between the have's and have not's has got to a point where the have not's can no longer survive...

That simple description describes entropy of the system, and the cycle continues.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 01:22 AM
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Originally posted by Doc Velocity


And I've been writing incendiary stuff since 1985, so I know they're watching me.

And I have no problem with fighting the System from within. The rich, the elite — in the end, they're just people, and people can be influenced. By me. You can do it, too, if you have the nerve and initiative to try it.

— Doc Velocity
[edit on 5/14/2010 by Doc Velocity]

You havent accomplished much.
The elite rich have gotten what they want:
the destruction of the American middle class,
and its identity.
Keep typing though.
I'm in it for the LULZ.










[edit on 14-5-2010 by RRokkyy]



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 01:29 AM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by RRokkyy
 





Power/wealth tend to become centralized in human systems which is the opposite of entropy or disorder. This is the history of human civilization with slavery and warfare as its central characteristics. I dont see any change on the horizon. Technology is just making it easier to centralize wealth and power.


Aristotle, in his book Politics described the cycles of revolution, and he was describing those cycles since time immemorial, that point being that today, Aristotle comes from the age of time immemorial and those cycles remain the same. That cycle comes down the the paradigm you offered, only Aristotle termed it the have's and the have not's. When the gap between the have's and the have not's get so big that the have not's can no longer survive, they revolt and overthrow the regime that is filled with the have's, and then usually engage in some sort of wealth redistribution. Once this has happened, apathy sets in with the have not's and the have's begin the slow and steady process of accumulating wealth again, until the gap between the have's and have not's has got to a point where the have not's can no longer survive...

That simple description describes entropy of the system, and the cycle continues.


Which is why the Romans invented the Dole.
A fed population doesnt revolt.
Anyway the current revolution (change) involves populations not
merely have nots.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 01:33 AM
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reply to post by RRokkyy
 





Which is why the Romans invented the Dole. A fed population doesnt revolt. Anyway the current revolution (change) involves populations not merely have nots.


And yet, Rome fell prey to entropy. Now we call them Italians. You offer politics of fear as if it is wisdom. You preach politics of division as if it isn't fear based. You fear, and you fear, and you want everyone else to be afraid with you. That is powerlessness. It is not the power of others that most people fear, it is their own that scares the crap out of them.

[edit on 14-5-2010 by Jean Paul Zodeaux]



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 01:44 AM
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Originally posted by RRokkyy
You havent accomplished much.
The elite rich have gotten what they want:
the destruction of the American middle class,
and its identity.
Keep typing though.
I'm in it for the LULZ.

I haven't accomplished much? Accomplishment is subjective. I have worked with and for Senators and CEOs and the Deans of Universities. I have crafted their speeches for them, I have composed and edited their "thought leadership" whitepapers and I've hobnobbed with some of the richest and most conservative and liberal people on the planet.

What's more, I've changed their minds on a couple of issues, and they thank me for it.

Now, if changing the mind of a plutocrat is not an accomplishment in your eyes, then I have no accomplishments.

Except that I DO.

And, if you want to point the finger of blame at somebody for the destruction of the Middle Class, look at the Lower Class, who are NOT paying taxes, who ARE siphoning off Welfare and Social Security like vampires, and who are intent on blaming the "rich elites" for all the ills of the world — disregarding, of course, the fact that the wealthy are CARRYING over 90% of the tax burden while the poor carry no burden but are receiving the freebies and give-aways!

There you go

— Doc Velocity




[edit on 5/14/2010 by Doc Velocity]



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 02:06 AM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
You offer politics of fear as if it is wisdom. You preach politics of division as if it isn't fear based. You fear, and you fear, and you want everyone else to be afraid with you. That is powerlessness. It is not the power of others that most people fear, it is their own that scares the crap out of them.

That is one of the most lucid statements I've seen on ATS, and it ought to be plastered on walls all across the country.

— Doc Velocity



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 02:20 AM
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reply to post by Doc Velocity
 


Thank you for your kind words, and thank you for your tireless efforts here on this site, and as I imagine in the real world as well. Screw the ADL!



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 03:45 AM
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Originally posted by Jessicamsa
What is going on that people can be in favor of banning the flag?


What is going on when people believe ANYTHING proffered by Faux News? What's going on is that Faux News deals only in right-wing propaganda, lies and deceit and those who embrace ignorance swallow it hook, line and sinker.

[edit on 14-5-2010 by Lilitu]



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 04:42 AM
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Originally posted by Lilitu
What is going on when people believe ANYTHING proffered by Faux News? What's going on is that Faux News deals only in right-wing propaganda, lies and deceit.

No, actually, I've watched some of the FOX News offerings, and I'm not seeing what you're saying.

I could very easily walk you over to MSNBC or CNN or NPR and show you that they are not merely Left-leaning, they're Leftist. High-profile members of the television elite readily acknowledge that they're Left-wing liberal Democrats. They color their news reportage and editorials and human interest stories through a socialist filter, and some of it is blatantly socialist...with open anti-American prejudice.

There's Free Speech for ya.

At FOX News, I see an effort to do the stand-up thing with Journalism above and beyond the so-called Mainstream Media; unfortunately, FOX gets bogged-down with conservative rhetoric and stuff that can only be described as redneck entertainment.

And, Jesus, will somebody hire a cosmetics professional for the morning shows? Those poor people look like they're coming off an Irwin Allen set...



I don't watch TV, but I'm aware of their programming online. For my money, FOX News is the same group of people who run the Mainstream, okay.

— Doc Velocity



[edit on 5/14/2010 by Doc Velocity]



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 07:09 AM
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reply to post by Jessicamsa
 


Ban the flag and we riot.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 07:56 AM
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If this insulting question needs to be asked, then we've lost. This is OUR COUNTRY DAMIT!!!!!!!! Here's a novel idea, why the "H" don't the people coming into our country adjust to us? Learn OUR language, learn our ways? What the H happened?! We've got teachers an principals telling kids with AMERICAN Flag shirts to take them off or turn them inside out or be sent home?! Unfreaking believeable! Ban the AMERICAN flag to quell race problems in schools? Yeah, I've got a one finger salute to that freaking idea.
Wow, guess I went into full rant mode on that one.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 08:05 AM
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This is why I'm against mass immigration. I know it's not politically correct by any means and I know I'm walking myself right into a flame fest, but it's the truth.

All it does, is end up destroying the host countries culture, heritage and beliefs. It's doing it in America and it's doing it in Europe.

Who's fault it is, doesn't matter. The end result of it is the same.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 08:26 AM
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reply to post by Jessicamsa
 


Stupid nationalists are gonna come crawling here defending their national identity and their beloved flag.

Predicting the future here.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 08:32 AM
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I don't get why it's an issue that FOX News made burning the flag an option. Talk about nit picking.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 08:34 AM
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reply to post by Jessicamsa
 


Voting against the flag at schools? So they can "pretend" they are in another country? Raising the flag each morning used to be a honored task.

I wonder who voted in this pole, were they even from the US?



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 08:36 AM
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Originally posted by SheaWolf
I wonder who voted in this pole, were they even from the US?


Many people now living in the US are not actually American citizens. I think that is the point.



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