6000 Veterans Commited Suicide Last Year!

reply to post by Brotherman

TO: Brotherman and the other vets who have been good enough to share their experiences with us here at ATS.

First of all, as an ex vet myself let me say thank you for your service to our country and your sacrifices you have made for our country.

You see, when people show up here on ATS and actually have some first hand knowledge on a subject here , many on ATS don't know how to react. All the Vet haters on here have no clue what it is like to serve.

As a returning vet all you here is negativity, from the main stream media, newspapers, bad press, forums, etc. Your bombarded with it as soon as you get home. Brotherman, that cop that gave you a DUI for a .05 is a chicken Sh&t idiot who need to exercise some discretion.

Don't be discouraged by the comments you hear on ATS or anywhere else. These voices are what I call the Vocal, big mouthed, minority. They think all vets are brain washed, but it is really them who are brain washed by the Main Stream Media.
You wont get much sympathy here but they are those of us who support the vets. I guess we should have just allowed Saddam to keep sponsoring terrorism(paid $10,000 to the families of suicide bombers, etc) and execute people at half time during soccer games, gas his own people, rape and toruture innocent women and children, invade neighboring countries(Kuwait). I am glad the war made the middle east a better place and it was our soldiers who made it that way...




[edit on 11-5-2010 by clownsroundhere]

reply to post by clownsroundhere


Yeah i know exactly what you mean, I think that even if there was a conspiracy or whatever to go and fight I know that me and my boys did it for freeing oppresed people and they were greatful for it.

reply to post by bsbray11


The good guys are you referring to the Iraqi and Afghani suicide bombers in their respective countries or are there statistics or reports to see how many iraqi and Afhgani soldiers commit suicide? The ISF and Afghanis have to live in constant fear of being murdered, kidnapped, and tortured and most of them believe that suicide is a terrible crime contrary to popular belief from what I understand so for them good Muslims suicide isnt an option.

This is truly troubling if these numbers are indeed accurate, but as one General in Civil War once said, "War is hell." I can see that, and apparently for many of these veterans, the war seems to be going on in their heads long after they dropped their rucksacks for the final time. I remember Eric Shinseki going before congress highlighting the importance of this, and how they were going to address it. With this recent revelation, it seems this problem is more than they can handle?

Everyone says they support the troops and by flying the flag out on the front porch it means they are doing something. However, it takes more than a ribbon on the car, or a care package to someone from time to time. These men and women need our help, but still we only banter back and forth about this that and everything else. Somehow these men and women who are taking their lives are not getting treatment or nurturing they need to decompress from war time and get back to being a productive member of society?

We are too consumed by our own affairs to take a moment to visit a VA hospital. Or go to a homeless advocacy group to find veterans that need help, and offer any assistance they may need. Even employers are not hiring these men and women like they should, because if it was up to me, they would get all the reasonable advantages over one who has never served. That is just me, but it ought to be that way. Those are just some examples of how the everyday American can take it upon themselves to make the lives of a veteran a little better.

I can speak on this subject personally, PTSD is real. For example, my grandfather served in World War II, and told my mom a few stories that truly turned her stomach. She told me when she was growing up, and on into his old age, he would have nightmares where he would wake-up screaming out of a dead sleep. He lived well into his seventies, and apparently the guns and carnage never stopped in his head? Although, he was fortunate enough to lead a somewhat normal life and maintain his family, the memories were as vivid and real as they were when he was there. Just imagine how much better his life could have been if he was given an opportunity for treatment, and not have to endure the stigma of being considered nuts. In his day, many thought if you went to a psychiatrist for something it would mean all your dogs are not barking. As then, and even today, there is a stigma associated with seeing a psychiatrist about anything.

Then, more recently, my little brother was a Navy Doc serving green side his entire six year enlistment, and was in Iraq for two tours. He was there during the invasion, and another time in Western Iraq at the height of the insurgency. The stories he has told to some of my family would make anyone pause. As with my Grandfather, and now his grandson, my brother seems a little unhinged by what he went through. He has had a hard time finding work, and does not venture out unless he has to. The affairs of civilian life seem rather trivial to him, and quite distant. When he hears a loud abrupt noise, like a fire cracker going off; he immediately jumps on the ground and covers up. He was with another brother when that happen, and that is how heard about it.

One of my brothers, who is still in the military, has tried to take him for counseling but my brother refuses. Apparently, he has to much pride, or he thinks there is a stigma associated with it? Still, he has not been operating on all cylinders since coming home, and is not the brother I remember before he went. As of now, he seems to be getting a little better and is slowing crawling out of his hole. My family has just tried to give him as much space as he needs, and not talk about the war or his experiences that much. Above all, we have remained patient with him, and have not pressured him very much to get back on the horse as a civilian. In other words, if he needs a place to stay, some money, or any other thing we can do for him; we do it the best we can. Personally, I try to talk to him as much as I can, and offer to help him in any way I can, should he need it.

This PTSD is a big problem, and not something to take trivially. If we continue to live in a malaise, what is stop these men and women from doing things to hurt others, their families, or themselves when experiencing depression or a flashback. In other words, a bunch of loose cannons walking around who can snap at any moment.

The newest head of the VA, General Eric Shinseki, seems like a good man and a soldier's soldier. One must remember the skeptical stance he took against Iraq, and the debilitating affect it had on his career. In that regard, he was looking out for his soldiers more than his career.

When the insurgency took hold in postwar Iraq, Shinseki's comments and their public rejection by the civilian leadership were often cited by those who felt the Bush administration deployed too few troops to Iraq.[8] On November 15, 2006, in testimony before Congress, CENTCOM Commander Gen. John Abizaid said that General Shinseki had been correct that more troops were needed.

en.wikipedia.org...

I can respect that, and he is one I could see as heading the VA, and is one of President Obama's smartest appointments. Still, he must deal with the waste and bureaucracy of the VA to substantiate any kind of change to these sobering figures. That is going to take quite an effort to circumvent, given the maze of bureaucratic red tape that will be put in his way.

It seems the VA and the DOD are finally recognizing this affliction. That is the first step, but it will take more than just putting a ribbon on your bumper and the flag out on the stoop. The people themselves have to take more initiative in reaching out to these people. We have to go above and beyond what is expected or considered normal by societies' standards. As a veteran myself, who was never been in combat given the time I was in and my duty assignment, I can empathize with the plight of our veterans. I can only imagine what kind of viciousness and carnage seen by them over there. I guess it boils done to every person having their breaking point.



[edit on 11-5-2010 by Jakes51]

reply to post by Brotherman


Nonetheless it's telling that our soldiers are killing themselves faster than the Muslims are.

While it is very disturbing, how can the newsman just sit there so casually and talk about this situation. Does he not even realize what he is reporting?

Originally posted by bsbray11
reply to post by Brotherman

 

Nonetheless it's telling that our soldiers are killing themselves faster than the Muslims are.

I'd rephrase that.

America is killing her own soldiers faster than "the enemy" is.

- by carefully and deliberately driving them to suicide.

reply to post by bsbray11


Maybe but I cant say for sure either way but arguing suicide attrition rates isnt my thing.

reply to post by ventian


That news man is a professional. So their 2 different classes. Soldiers need to learn how to GET A JOB! not one veteran was in any of my medical programs. Know why? because they dont care about the value of a dollar or working hard. They think everything should be given to them, when they did nothing to earn it. Everyone one of them should be saluting us the hard workers of america since their all stealing from our wallets and our families with their problems.

reply to post by tigpoppa


Typical elitist comment posted by you. Your medical class ever teach anything on psychological trauma. Guess not.

This is a volunteer military. You wanted adventure, well, you got it.

The problem is that when you signed up, your romantic ideas of what that "adventure" would entail were complete fantasy programmed into your mind by propaganda which comes in the form of TV commercials, video games, and war movies.

Guys like Pat Tillman, as smart as he was, were also fooled into the scam. When he discovered the truth, they killed him before he could come home and share his realization.

My advice to anyone interested in signing up for the military should watch the movie "A River Runs Through It". Listen to what Anthony Hopkins' character says about war. It's the truth.

Unfortunately for these guys offing themselves, they are discovering that truth after it's too late.

[edit on 11-5-2010 by harrytuttle]

Originally posted by tigpoppa

because they dont care about the value of a dollar or working hard. They think everything should be given to them, when they did nothing to earn it.

This is absolutely the most idiotic thing I have ever read on ATS. The amount of insensativity you display, is rather frightening, and cold. Obviously, you have never been in the military, or know anybody who has.

They don't get paid enough, in my opinion.

Everyone one of them should be saluting us the hard workers of america since their all stealing from our wallets and our families with their problems.

I'm sure quite a few of THEM, as well as others would like to give you a 1 fingered salute!

Whether the number is 6,000 or 60, these soldiers suffered because of treachery on the part of the very people in whom they had pledged their loyalty and trust. In return for this pledge of loyalty, they were led into a death trap built on deceit, and those responsible knew very well many troops would not return. There is no greater act of betrayal and it should not go unpunished.

Can't our military brass unite our troops against these powers? Can't they order our troops to stand against those who, in the name of the U.S., are committing treason and crimes against humanity? Can't the military take these people into custody to face justice for the sake of saving American lives and securing the freedom in this country? Isn't this exactly the kind of threat that prompts so many courageous men and women to sign up for the military in the first place? This is where the real fight for freedom is...not in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Our soldiers' lives and the lives of innocent civilians hang in the balance every day we fail to respond in a manner equal in severity to the acts that have been committed against America and it's citizens.

reply to post by harrytuttle


Not to get off topic here, so please excuse me. In regards to the movie you referenced, it was not "A River Runs Through It," but I think "Legends of the Fall."

Here is the quote by the character, Colonel Ludlow, played by Anthony Hopkins, from the film "Legends of the Fall." His character is talking to his sons about his experiences in war during the battles that took place against the Plain's Indians, and they are not much different than what is going in Europe at the time during World War I.

Colonel Ludlow: Indians! Indians were the issue in those days. I can assure you, gentlemen, there is nothing quite so grotesque as the meeting of a child with a bullet; or an entire village slaughtered while sleeping. That was the Government's resolution of that particular issue and I have seen nothing in its behavior since then that would persuade me that it has gained either in wisdom, common sense, or humanity.

www.imdb.com...


I think you got them mixed up, because Brad Pitt was in both movies. Still even if our veterans volunteer for the military, they ought to be given adequate medical treatment and counseling when they return. It is the least our government can do for them. If not, the politicians will just have another draft, as they had done before.

[edit on 11-5-2010 by Jakes51]

reply to post by Blanca Rose


I have friends who know people who are in the military. Most of them abandoned their families to go crusading or whatever they do over there. I mean its not like saddam or anyone is going to invade america so its kind of useless. Not a single one of our elected representatives who voted for the gulf war had a kid int he military. Lets look at that statistic and analyze its outcome. The only reason why none of them are in the military is because they went out and got real jobs. Show me one wall street CEO who was in the gulf war. I googled it and didnt find any. Their to busy creating jobs and keeping our country running. The military is a good place to send the lower classes since it keeps them from shooting up schools, or going to the top of towers like at texas a&m. Idle hands do the devils work so I support sending them away, FAR AWAY. but the point is why are they not getting training in re education camps when they return? They have bootcamp, I saw that in the movie Stripes, seems like these people who join can learn things. They should be trained when leaving, like a reverse bootcamp, one that teaches them life skills and how to be a real american.

I think since most join at 18 they forget about what its like to work for a living. Many get stressed out over filling out applications. I met someone once who was in the military and they got scared from a college application (some hero). I dont think their scared though, i think their intimidated because their just not used to filling out so many forms when they can just pick up a gun and shoot people to get their way. It is overwhelming to fill out hundreds of questions, and for someone who is not used to it, it can be mind boggling and intimidating. I think as a member of the next generation who will lead us into tomorrow, we need to nurture these soldiers after they leave by putting them in camps just like when they joined and got to go to boot camp, so as to prepare them for a return to civilian life. We could use our prisons, they already exist and since many are not over filled, we could put the soldiers in there to protect our children on the streets until their safe to be released. If you look at the FBI crime statistics, veterans are responsible for as much crime as minorities per capita in the population.

[edit on 11-5-2010 by tigpoppa]

reply to post by tigpoppa

I dont think their scared though, i think their intimidated because their just not used to it. It is overwhelming to fill out hundreds of questions, and for someone who those who are not used to it, it can be mind boggling and intimidating. I think as the next generation who will lead us into tomorrow, we need to nurture these soldiers after they leave by putting them in camps just like when they went into, so as to prepare them for a return to civilian life.

The only "mind boggling" here is what's coming from your keyboard. You sound like you are very young and lacking in life experience to rattle off this garbage. If I'm wrong about your being young, then I can only say you need some help.

we could put the soldiers in there to protect our children on the streets until their safe to be released

WTF? Now our kids are in danger because vets are on the street? What planet are you from?

[edit on 11-5-2010 by NightGypsy]

Originally posted by tigpoppa


I have friends who know people who are in the military. Most of them abandoned their families to go crusading or whatever they do over there.

I disagree this, alone. Perhaps, many leave their families to join the military, due to the economy, so they can support them. In case you didn't know it, this war conveniently exist while the economy is tanking, and there is a lot of unemployment.

I mean its not like saddam or anyone is going to invade america so its kind of useless.

Well, it would be a miracle if saddam invaded America. It's kinda hard to see your way around without your head! I'm not saying I agree with this war, because I don't, but I sure to respect people who serve us in the military.

Not a single one of our elected representatives who voted for the gulf war had a kid int he military.

You have statistics to prove this statement? Correct?

Lets look at that statistic and analyze its outcome. The only reason why none of them are in the military is because they went out and got real jobs.

So, none of them happened to be in college? Some people join the military for the benefits of being able to attend college at a later date.

Show me one wall street CEO who was in the gulf war. I googled it and didnt find any. Their to busy creating jobs and keeping our country running.

Sure about that? Last time they announced the job situation in this country, unemployment went up. The beginning of this month, the latest figure was at 9.9%.

The military is a good place to send the lower classes since it keeps them from shooting up schools, or going to the top of towers like at texas a&m.

Not all domestic terrorists have come from lower middle class.

Idle hands do the devils work so I support sending them away, FAR AWAY.

You can't be serious!

but the point is why are they not getting training in re education camps when they return? They have bootcamp, I saw that in the movie Stripes, seems like these people who join can learn things. They should be trained when leaving, like a reverse bootcamp, one that teaches them life skills and how to be a real american.

I don't think you have any idea of what being a real American is like, if you propose such an idea!

I think since most join at 18 they forget about what its like to work for a living. Many get stressed out over filling out applications. I met someone once who was in the military and they got scared from a college application (some hero). I dont think their scared though, i think their intimidated because their just not used to filling out so many forms when they can just pick up a gun and shoot people to get their way.

Many suffer from PTSD. They are nervous for a lot of reasons, and in a lot of situations. It has nothing to do with picking up a gun, and shooting to get their way.

we need to nurture these soldiers after they leave by putting them in camps just like when they joined and got to go to boot camp, so as to prepare them for a return to civilian life. We could use our prisons, they already exist and since many are not over filled, we could put the soldiers in there to protect our children on the streets until their safe to be released. If you look at the FBI crime statistics, veterans are responsible for as much crime as minorities per capita in the population.

Well, obviously, you have a beef with minorities, and veterans. Feel free to exit America, at your earliest convenience!

Originally posted by harrytuttle
This is a volunteer military.
[edit on 11-5-2010 by harrytuttle]

Only in theory my friend. TPTB know when you destroy the school system our kids will end up with a very limited amount of choices. The army offers some incentives that a lot of kids can't afford to turn down. Most of them know exactly what they sign up for!

reply to post by tigpoppa


Did the Army turn you down? So much anger, and so little factual knowledge.

reply to post by tigpoppa


This is the problem right here. Everything you know about the military is heresay on your part. At a college, of course, you run with the typical anti soldier crowd. A soldier afraid to fill out a form? Scared what work is like? They work more in one day than you will the rest of your life. Typical elitist who doesn't live in the real world. Are you sure your account hasn't been hacked because you are either a troll or an actual elitist.