freemason watch

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
I have to travel Gosford way at some point before the end of September - I'll see if I can make it around the second Wednesday!

I have inadvertently broken some taboos in hilarious fashion around NSW and Qld Lodges.

Greetings MaskedAvatar,
It is a great honour to have you in this conversation - you are a most revered personality around here. I live 15 minutes out of Gosford - Perhaps we can meet? May I ask when you are coming up?

Regards,
Bro. Daniel Brown

I will certainly keep you posted!

That old town where ring hunters might focus on seashells will get a visit next month in all likelihood. I have seasonal business in L*s*r*w and always enjoy T*g*e*a* L***s and even Spike Milligan's old haunt.

But it may be best that I meet you on the second carriage of the model railway that operates in the garden next to the amphitheatre by T*e *n*r*n*e main promenade, on the 2nd Tuesday of the month, or another fraternally agreeable arrangement made in advance, LOL.

I would invite Leveller too, but he's shy around the Antipodes.

Shows sign of the goat, mutters something inaudible like "Zaob", signs off.

My Brother,
It sounds excellent - I currently reside in Y*r*a*a*o*nG - You probably have not heard of it. But I did just purchase a new home 400m from the beach at T*r*i*aL. I have good friends that live in L*s*r*W - many of them own businesses, may I ask what type of business you are there for?

There is an excellent bookstore at The E*t*a*cE, it specialises in out of print books and is impossible to miss - It is a big yellow building several hundred metres from an old Lodge.

I didn't realise the Leveller was Australian - I didn't think you were either - I do not know of many Brothers as knowledgeable as yourselves that were Australian. I hope to see you there!

Regards,
Bro. Daniel Brown

Originally posted by Decretal
I didn't realise the Leveller was Australian - I didn't think you were either - I do not know of many Brothers as knowledgeable as yourselves that were Australian.

He isn't, and he's OK nonetheless.

I can put on a good Aussie accent and I have some longstanding Australian friends, but in essence my mask is somehow glued onto me and I cannot get it off.

The bookstore sounds very appealing indeed - and I have never visited it - although published things new and old are of interest!

Originally posted by oconnection
Some very interesting information. I've always understood Satanism is the evil side of spirituality. Can you further explain to me how you can see Satanist as non-spiritual when they are heavily involved in black magic & other dark practices? Doesn't this qualify that as being spiritual?

Not really. Most people have many misconceptions about satanism. If you�re interested in their beliefs and practices in detail, you could read �The Satanic Bible� by Anton Szandor LaVey, who was the founding high priest of the Church of Satan.
Many people believe that Satanists worship a being that Christians call the devil. In reality, Satanists do not believe in either God or the devil, or any other power higher than themselves. They use anti-Christian symbolism in their liturgies and ritual in protest of Christianity, which they believe has corrupted civilization through hypocrisy and tyranny. In this sense, Satanism is a strongly reactionary movement.
The religion is materialistic, and opposed to any form of spirituality. They call their doctrines �Left Hand Path� (materialistic and humanistic) which stands opposed to �Right Hand Path� (spirituality and mysticism). For example, they consider Jesus, Buddha, and Zoroaster to be RHP teachers, while LaVey and Nietzsche are LHP.
In the Satanic Bible, LaVey states that, to Satanists, Satan is a symbol of rebellion against corrupt authority, selfishness (which is considered �good� in Satanism), and things of that nature. The �magic� used by Satanists is not the same thing as the Magick used by Adepts. Real Magick concerns the understanding and conscious direction of the occult, or hidden, forces of Nature, and Nature will only yield Her most profound secrets to those She deems worthy. For one to truly be Adept in Magick, he or she must be virtuous, charitable, and understand the importance of self-denial. Such disciplines are despised by Satanists, who glorify he ego. The ego, in occultism, is one interpretation of the inverted Pentagram, again representing the �animal� in us, which the Adept is bound to overcome...and the Satanist wishes to exalt.
For more info on Satanism, see their website:

www.churchofsatan.com

Fiat Lvx.

Check out the information contained at franklyspeakingtheamx.com you may go away better informed, or at least questioning your position.

Originally posted by avs190
Check out the information contained at franklyspeakingtheamx.com you may go away better informed, or at least questioning your position.

Actually no, this is yet another individual who does not know what he is talking about. Its rather clear when someone with actual knowledge takes a look at his site.

I was going to break down some of his claims point by point, but then thought, "Why? its not worth my time" so ill refrain from that. However his ignorance is shown in a rather hillarious manner if you ask me by his comment below:

"COMPASS (Masonic ): The Masonic symbol of the compass and the T-square represents movement toward perfection and a balance between the spiritual and physical which resembles Egyptian and oriental mysticism...."

We don't use the t-square, any person with a working knowledge of drafting would recognize that we use the square, not the t-square. If an individual can't tell the difference between simple drafting tools commonly used all over the world, then how is he going to be able to break down the esoteric and "secret" meanings which these symbols represent to an organization which he doesn't even belong to!!!!!?!?!?!??!?!??!

Stop taking everything on face value.

As a Master Mason I find very it very insulting that you would imply that a non initate, paranoid, conspiracy theorist with a sloppy website would be able to shed light on OUR CRAFT! Please!

Its funny, everyone knows something about freemasons except freemasons themselves.



[edit on 6/9/04 by Khonsu]

[edit on 6/9/04 by Khonsu]

There have been hundreds, perhaps thousands of books published about freemasonary. There have been films about freemasonary and there are websites about freemasonary. There are people who are paranoid to the point of being sick about the supposed wickedness of freemasonary. No matter what these people are told or shown they will not believe what freemasonary represents. These people will always think that the freemasons are planning to take over the world and in some cases are responsible for these peoples problems in life. Websites like Freemason watch are the meat and drink to these poor deluded people. They need medical help and sadly our society to some extent has let them down by not giving them the medical care that they so badly need.

In my opinion freemasonary is a pillar of a well run society and where freemasonary flourishes it is in countries like the USA and Europe where democracy exists and is strong. In Nazi Grermany and Soviet Russia thousands of freemasons were murdered because theese oppressive regimes took the view that freemasonary was a threat and needed to be purged. The cost of our freedom is a high one and for evil to win good men only have to do nothing. A thought to be considered.

Brother Gerard

[edit on 9-6-2004 by Gerard]

Gerard, you are correct. But for every one who comes here and flames masonry, there are many more who learn what masonry is really about.

When I came to ATS, my experience with masonry was limited to what I read in one of David Icke's books. I had nothing else to temper the information. After posting on Masonic threads, I began to pay attention to what REAL Masons were saying. I'm sure I've alienated some of the peoply I originally agreed with on ATS, but I feel that Masonry is not the evil bunch as has been portrayed.
I'll bet there are more people like mee who have a new positive attitude toward Masonry, than the ATSers who remain anti-Mason.

My opinion on Masonry is that it does not consist of evil people trying to take over the world. Honestly though I do not believe most Masons understand what Masonry is about completely. I am in no way saying that I do either. What I am saying is that Masonry is like an onion it has many different layers. With so many different religious beliefs it�s like anything else in this world it comes down to interpretation.

I personally wouldn't associate with such a group. I'm not really for the secretiveness. I also feel uncomfortable with the main emphasis being that of seeking more light. Thus seems to fall into the role of religion. Being that I am Christian, to me this is unacceptable.

Masons will vigorously argue that it is not religious. Many Masons will be professed Christians themselves. But personally I have all the light I need. Since I believe that my God is the way the truth & the light & non come to the father but through him. I feel no need to seek further light. So this is the conflict I have with Masonry.



[edit on 10-6-2004 by oconnection]

Originally posted by oconnection
I also feel uncomfortable with the main emphasis being that of seeking more light. Thus seems to fall into the role of religion. Being that I am Christian, to me this is unacceptable.

But isn't seeking knowledge the the very basis of life?
You're a Christian, right? Do you know that Jesus was a good guy because you read the Bible or because somebody else told you? Obviously you made up your own mind - nobody had to tell you. You sought the light on your own.
Masonry is no different.

Seeking knowledge is not religion. It is the thing that makes us human.

Originally posted by oconnection
Masons will vigorously argue that it is not religious. Many Masons will be professed Christians themselves. But personally I have all the light I need. Since I believe that my God is the way the truth & the light & non come to the father but through him. I feel no need to seek further light. So this is the conflict I have with Masonry.
[edit on 10-6-2004 by oconnection]

Well, Firstly, Masonry is not a religion, although it has religion. There are men of many different religions getting a meaning out of masonry and applying it towards their religion. As I said ,any times before your religion depends on where you were brought up. If a christian was brought up in an Islamic home, then the chances are they would be Islamic. Now, we are all tring to basically achieve the same thing. We are all trying to make out lives and the lives of people around us better and to share our thoughts and learn new ideas and things. If you are happy where you are at in this existance, then I am happy for you. But, please do not say masonry is wrong because we want to learn and grow more. That would be the same as me saying that I am against your church because it teaches you to not learn and grow and tries to keep you stagnant and not being open to anything new. We can all look positive or negative to any situation. But, I am truly happy that you have found your way... I hope you are enjoying this little journey, because I ceretainly am.

Originally posted by billmcelligott
If you a Mason you will spent eternity in hell, but for just$9.99 you can have a book that will save you.

LOL! That's good for those Freemasons who believe in hell. But what about those of us who don't?

Grey Pilgrim

I've never said I'm against learning. Why do you think I'm a member of this form, I'm all for learning. I've lately been studying all different types of religions through out the world. I do not believe that my church or the bible teaches that learning & keeping a closed mind is a good thing at all.

I don't wish to inspire a passionate argument on this form. Because frankly there's been plenty of them on this subject.

Originally posted by oconnection
I also feel uncomfortable with the main emphasis being that of seeking more light. Thus seems to fall into the role of religion. Being that I am Christian, to me this is unacceptable.... But personally I have all the light I need. Since I believe that my God is the way the truth & the light & non come to the father but through him. I feel no need to seek further light. So this is the conflict I have with Masonry.

This goes back to what I was saying earlier: to truly understand Masonry, we have to place it in its historic context.
The entire symbolism of the Masonic Ritual concerns the Candidate going from darkness to Light. This is true of every phase in the Ritual, even down to how the Candidate is prepared to undergo his ordeal of initiation.
You say that Christianity is the only light you need; if that is the case, that is ok, no one is trying to convince you otherwise. But Masonic Ritual is based upon the historic advent of the Enlightenment. Previous to the 1700�s, Christianity was widespread...yet this era is nonetheless known as the �dark ages�. Even though Christianity was paramount, people were still blinded by superstition, and were bound by a cabletow of tyranny to absolute monarchist governments, that refused to recognize the Rights of Man. This symbolism is carried over into Freemasonry through the preparation of the Candidate, and is why he is in a state of bondage and darkness when he enters the Lodge room. His preparation symbolically personifies the dark ages from which the teachings of the Enlightenment should set him free.
After receiving Masonic instruction, the Candidate is �brought from darkness to Light�. Since Masonic doctrine is synonymous with the Enlightenment�s doctrines and philosophies, this represents the fact that when a man becomes educated, and devotes himself to virtue, tolerance, truth, and charity, he is enabled to shake off the bonds of the dark ages, and may enter the age of reason with the knowledge he�s acquired.
For this reason, we say Masonry�s teachings are not �religious�. Masonic Light is the Light of the Enlightened Intellect, a man is who is free to think for himself without being coerced to believe this or that. Religion is not brought into the Lodge because, during the dark ages, religion was part of the problem. It had ceased its attempt to make men happy and to honor God, and became a power-hungry political body. It could honestly be said that the purification of religion in the west was brought about, at least in part, by Freemasonry because of this.

Fiat Lvx.

Originally posted by oconnection
I personally wouldn't associate with such a group. I'm not really for the secretiveness. I also feel uncomfortable with the main emphasis being that of seeking more light. Thus seems to fall into the role of religion. Being that I am Christian, to me this is unacceptable.

To me, it seems that "oconnection" is simply saying that he does not wish to become a Mason. I have no problem with this. I'm just surprised that he feels the need to state this publicly. But if anyone does not wish to become a Mason, that is entirely their own business, as long as they don't try to prevent me from becoming a Mason, or have the gall to suggest I'm going to hell or some such thing.

I, as a Christian, find Masonry completely acceptable, and, in fact, beneficial. If you disagree with me, and feel that you personally do not wish to join, I will most unflaggingly defend your desire not to join, as long as you don't interfere with other people who do wish to join.

Originally posted by oconnection
...I also feel uncomfortable with the main emphasis being that of seeking more light. Thus seems to fall into the role of religion. Being that I am Christian, to me this is unacceptable.

Masons will vigorously argue that it is not religious. Many Masons will be professed Christians themselves. But personally I have all the light I need. Since I believe that my God is the way the truth & the light & non come to the father but through him. I feel no need to seek further light. So this is the conflict I have with Masonry.

Oconnection, it's been a while since we've talked, no? I really have you to thank. Through our u2us, I made a decision about Masonry. I believe it is an honorable group, even though I am a woman and cannot apply. They have no underhanded business.

You keep talking about the light, as if it were something you were very, very curious about it, even though it made you uncomfortable.
Does your denomination not accept Masonry? Perhaps your religious ideas prevent you from seeking out the Masons?

Peace.

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe

Oconnection, it's been a while since we've talked, no? I really have you to thank. Through our u2us, I made a decision about Masonry. I believe it is an honorable group, even though I am a woman and cannot apply. They have no underhanded business.

You keep talking about the light, as if it were something you were very, very curious about it, even though it made you uncomfortable.
Does your denomination not accept Masonry? Perhaps your religious ideas prevent you from seeking out the Masons?

Peace.

You certainly can join Freemasonry , there is OES, Womens Masonry and Co Masonry.

If one is ignorant of any subject, to be led into the light is to obtain knowledge. What you do with that knowledge is up to you.

Thanks, Bill. I do not qualify for OES as there are no Masons in my family anywhere. I found the Women's Masonry site. They seem a small group, with Lodges in only three US cities: New York, L.A. and Washington DC. Perhaps Co-Masonry is the answer.
Thank you for your interest.