Young Aussie genius whipping NASA in Moon Hoax Debate!

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by 000063

 

You did not explain the relevance of said videos, as forum rules require.

He did explain the relevance actually..
He was questioning the exposure of bags and containers to the vacuum of the moon..

No he didn't. His post made no explanation of the relevance. There was an obvious connection, which needed no explanation, but no relevance.

Originally posted by nataylor

Originally posted by FoosM
Another question, what happens to the temperature of the LM cabin when they open the hatch door?
All the heat would escape, correct? Would it not then freeze inside?

It probably would not drop appreciably. Before opening the hatch, the interior would be at normal room temperature. After opening the hatch, the atmosphere would be gone, but the interior components and surfaces retain their heat. They only way they could lose heat is by radiating it, since there is no atmosphere to carry the heat away by convection. But any heat radiated to the interior is just absorbed by other parts of the interior. It very much would be like a thermos, keeping the heat of the interior bottled in.

I see, but didnt they keep the doors open, or ajar during their EVAs?
Again, if the LM was a like a thermos, what exactly caused the Apollo 13 LM interior to get cold vs the LM on the surface of the moon staying close to room temperature even after opening the hatch to the vacuum of space?

reply to post by FoosM


This is why I keep saying you need to do more...a LOT more study on this, and the science that is related:

....what exactly caused the Apollo 13 LM interior to get cold vs the LM on the surface of the moon staying close to room temperature even after opening the hatch to the vacuum of space?

First of all, you didn't get that right, RE: Apollo 13 and their emergency.

It was the CM that got cold. Know why??? They powered it down, to conserve the batteries.

THAT is why they used the LM as a lifeboat....it was powered up, had is own independent systems (naturally).


Further, for LMs on the surface, even at vacuum for duration of the EVAs....firstly, they did NOT leave the hatch wide open (which would have meant just a slight increase in the rate of interior heat loss, anyway) .

And, the LM continued to be fully powered up...with all the associated heat from the electronics, etc.

Originally posted by FoosM

Originally posted by nataylor

Originally posted by FoosM
Another question, what happens to the temperature of the LM cabin when they open the hatch door?
All the heat would escape, correct? Would it not then freeze inside?

It probably would not drop appreciably. Before opening the hatch, the interior would be at normal room temperature. After opening the hatch, the atmosphere would be gone, but the interior components and surfaces retain their heat. They only way they could lose heat is by radiating it, since there is no atmosphere to carry the heat away by convection. But any heat radiated to the interior is just absorbed by other parts of the interior. It very much would be like a thermos, keeping the heat of the interior bottled in.

I see, but didnt they keep the doors open, or ajar during their EVAs?
Again, if the LM was a like a thermos, what exactly caused the Apollo 13 LM interior to get cold vs the LM on the surface of the moon staying close to room temperature even after opening the hatch to the vacuum of space?

The doors were kept ajar, but that only allowed for a tiny area where infrared radiant heat could escape. And it wasn't the LM that got cold on Apollo 13, it was the CM. The amount of time would play a big factor in that. During EVAs they were only out of the LM for at most around8 hours. The CM went without power for around 4 days. Even then, it didn't get *really* cold, at least compared to space. It dropped 23 degrees F to 43 degrees.

NAT you mentioned that the CM was the reason for the BBQ roll.
But I had read that the LM also needed to be rotated:

The integrity of the heatshield is not the only reason for PTC. The RCS quads, SPS propellant tanks and the structure, propellant and battery systems of the LM also needed to be evenly heated or cooled

www.ehartwell.com...(Passive_Thermal_Control)

Originally posted by FoosM
NAT you mentioned that the CM was the reason for the BBQ roll.
But I had read that the LM also needed to be rotated:

The integrity of the heatshield is not the only reason for PTC. The RCS quads, SPS propellant tanks and the structure, propellant and battery systems of the LM also needed to be evenly heated or cooled

www.ehartwell.com...(Passive_Thermal_Control)

You'll note I did use words like "mainly" and "primarily."

Once on the surface, the batteries would be in use and thus generate their own heat.

Originally posted by nataylor

Originally posted by FoosM
NAT you mentioned that the CM was the reason for the BBQ roll.
But I had read that the LM also needed to be rotated:

The integrity of the heatshield is not the only reason for PTC. The RCS quads, SPS propellant tanks and the structure, propellant and battery systems of the LM also needed to be evenly heated or cooled

www.ehartwell.com...(Passive_Thermal_Control)

You'll note I did use words like "mainly" and "primarily."

Once on the surface, the batteries would be in use and thus generate their own heat.

Oh you did?

The BBQ roll was for the CM (specifically the heat shield material, which could crack and flake if heated and then deeply cooled). But it also kept even heating on the RCS quads, radiators, and propellant tanks.

I didnt catch that.
I also dont know why you even mentioned the CM when I was already talking about evenly heating the LM.
But ok, now you say the batteries would be in use and create their own heat. But that doesn't mean they are being evenly heated. The sun is still on one side of the craft. And what about the propellent tanks?

reply to post by nataylor

Because at this distance from the Sun, space provides a larger heat sink than the heat source provided by the sun.

wait a minute ~!!! if that is true.. then why even have a atmosphere ~!!! LOL .. wow.. let's just strip is all away since outer space is a great place to live .. x-rays, gamma rays, hell nuclear rays even, (if there is such a thing LOL), there's no heat in space to really worry about.. but SHOULD the moon fire off a Massive Corona .. you can adjust the temperature inside your cozy cabin with a the thermostat LMAO ~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

but.. wait for it.. ..

THE MOON IS COOKING FOLKS .. DON"T GO THERE~!! LOL .. i say again .. DO NOT GO TO THE MOON~!!It's 200*F+ there and you'll need every drop of water to survive ~!! ! Now.. if you want to .. you can travel ALL around it, and back .. spin around even and all is fine.. there's nothing to worry about.. ~!!!

reply to post by nataylor

The doors were kept ajar, but that only allowed for a tiny area where infrared radiant heat could escape.

Nat.............are you even reading what your posting ?? ~!!! I mean .........seriously.........the Doors were kept ajar..........in the vacuum of space ..............seriously ~!! I'm LMAO so hard I'm crying ~!!!

Now that's a first & I NEVER EVER heard of any 1 of the astronaughts going THAT far ~!!! Hell every single movie ever put out in Hollywood NEVER even considered having a 'door ajar' ~!!

Think about it .. ~!!!! WT* are you getting this data from ~!! ?? cuz' you need to rethink this whole space frenzy your on~!!

EVEN a Shread of common sence would be awesome.. to hell with the data ~!!

Originally posted by Komodo
reply to post by nataylor

 

Because at this distance from the Sun, space provides a larger heat sink than the heat source provided by the sun.

wait a minute ~!!! if that is true.. then why even have a atmosphere ~!!! LOL .. wow.. let's just strip is all away since outer space is a great place to live .. x-rays, gamma rays, hell nuclear rays even, (if there is such a thing LOL), there's no heat in space to really worry about.. but SHOULD the moon fire off a Massive Corona .. you can adjust the temperature inside your cozy cabin with a the thermostat LMAO ~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well you bring up a good point. Was there like a control panel that they could adjust their LM to 72 degrees if they wanted to? How could astronauts control the temperature in their LM?
If the whole system was based on sublimation...

Originally posted by FoosM

Originally posted by nataylor

Originally posted by FoosM
NAT you mentioned that the CM was the reason for the BBQ roll.
But I had read that the LM also needed to be rotated:

The integrity of the heatshield is not the only reason for PTC. The RCS quads, SPS propellant tanks and the structure, propellant and battery systems of the LM also needed to be evenly heated or cooled

www.ehartwell.com...(Passive_Thermal_Control)

You'll note I did use words like "mainly" and "primarily."

Once on the surface, the batteries would be in use and thus generate their own heat.

Oh you did?

Oops, I thought I did, and I should have. My apologies.

Originally posted by FoosM
I also dont know why you even mentioned the CM when I was already talking about evenly heating the LM.
But ok, now you say the batteries would be in use and create their own heat. But that doesn't mean they are being evenly heated. The sun is still on one side of the craft. And what about the propellent tanks?

I brought up the CM because the BBQ rool was originally developed to deal with the heat shield cracking/flaking problem.

Once on the surface, the LM's heating and cooling systems would be active. Also, the lunar stay was the shortest part of the mission, compared to the the trans-lunar and trans-earth coasts.

Originally posted by Komodo
reply to post by nataylor

 

Because at this distance from the Sun, space provides a larger heat sink than the heat source provided by the sun.

wait a minute ~!!! if that is true.. then why even have a atmosphere ~!!! LOL .. wow.. let's just strip is all away since outer space is a great place to live .. x-rays, gamma rays, hell nuclear rays even, (if there is such a thing LOL), there's no heat in space to really worry about.. but SHOULD the moon fire off a Massive Corona .. you can adjust the temperature inside your cozy cabin with a the thermostat LMAO ~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What does the "moon fire off a Massive Corona" mean? You need an atmosphere to hold in the heat, otherwise it would radiate out into space because space is such a great heat sink.

Originally posted by FoosM

Well you bring up a good point. Was there like a control panel that they could adjust their LM to 72 degrees if they wanted to? How could astronauts control the temperature in their LM?
If the whole system was based on sublimation...

They wouldn't need heat, since all the systems would be producing heat during the lunar stay. They just needed a way to vent the excess heat to keep the interior comfortable.

Originally posted by Komodo
reply to post by nataylor

 

The doors were kept ajar, but that only allowed for a tiny area where infrared radiant heat could escape.

Nat.............are you even reading what your posting ?? ~!!! I mean .........seriously.........the Doors were kept ajar..........in the vacuum of space ..............seriously ~!!

I'm LMAO so hard I'm crying ~!!!

Now that's a first & I NEVER EVER heard of any 1 of the astronaughts going THAT far ~!!! Hell every single movie ever put out in Hollywood NEVER even considered having a 'door ajar' ~!!

Think about it .. ~!!!! WT* are you getting this data from ~!! ?? cuz' you need to rethink this whole space frenzy your on~!!

EVEN a Shread of common sence would be awesome.. to hell with the data ~!!

From Apollo 11:

109:41:28 Aldrin: Okay. Now I want to back up and partially close the hatch. (Long Pause) Making sure not to lock it on my way out.

109:41:53 Armstrong: (Laughs) A particularly good thought.

[The hatch can be opened from the outside, if necessary. The reason for almost closing the hatch is, I believe, to prevent radiative cooling of the cabin. Neither Neil or Buzz remembered any specific reason.]
[Armstrong (straight-faced) - "To avoid having somebody say 'Were you born in a barn?'"]

[Aldrin - "Now that you bring it up, what would have happened if the valve had gotten screwed up or something and it started re-pressurizing?"]

[Armstrong - "You'd never get back in."]

[Aldrin - "Did we really ever investigate that problem? (Chuckling) It probably would have been a good idea to use a brick or a camera to keep it from closing. Somebody must have thought about that."]

Originally posted by Komodo
reply to post by nataylor

 

The doors were kept ajar, but that only allowed for a tiny area where infrared radiant heat could escape.

Nat.............are you even reading what your posting ?? ~!!! I mean .........seriously.........the Doors were kept ajar..........in the vacuum of space ..............seriously ~!!

I'm LMAO so hard I'm crying ~!!!

Now that's a first & I NEVER EVER heard of any 1 of the astronaughts going THAT far ~!!! Hell every single movie ever put out in Hollywood NEVER even considered having a 'door ajar' ~!!

Think about it .. ~!!!! WT* are you getting this data from ~!! ?? cuz' you need to rethink this whole space frenzy your on~!!

EVEN a Shread of common sence would be awesome.. to hell with the data ~!!

Ah, yes, the old "common sense" chestnut, which is ironic coming from a guy who can't even type properly. Hollywood has a lot to answer for.

"Common sense" is, quite often, wrong. If officers were allowed to convict people based on their "gut", then a lot of innocent men would be in jail. In an actual investigation or debate, facts and logic > gut.

Also, you missed or removed the part of the quote where it says that the door was open during EVA. Specifically when they opened the craft to the vacuum of space.

sorry I see No source reference here ..

Lunar Surface Journal: history.nasa.gov...

WELL.. yea.. it is a chestnut because it's hard to crack .........and there's one thing missing in 'cracking the hatch'.........

a) you've just depressurized the cabin and let all the oxygen OUT, to include any normal temperature that is needed to either stay warm OR cool to survive...

b) I guess they strapped in, locked themselves in, all their notes and EVERYTHING was locked down because if not it went BYE BYE right out the HATCH~!~!!!!!!

c) Now that they've depressurized the cabin to neutral state, meaning NO oxy, no heat (presumably which is completely far fetched IMO,) they have to spend precious Oxy back to a state where they can breath w/o suits on .. correct ?? which means they have limited their oxygen in their suits down to where they can not use them any more since they used them floating to the LM and staying their for 3 hours..

Yes ... or NO ..?

reply to post by Komodo


And, if you would have paid attention (or done research) then you would not have written this:

b) I guess they strapped in, locked themselves in, all their notes and EVERYTHING was locked down because if not it went BYE BYE right out the HATCH~!~!!!!!!

Do you desire the easy answer, or prefer to learn for yourself (on your own), why that entire sentence is baloney?