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Young Aussie genius whipping NASA in Moon Hoax Debate!

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posted on May, 28 2011 @ 09:32 AM
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reply to post by DJW001
 



Thank you for at least acknowledging that Jarrah is a criminal.


Good job on twisting words for an agenda mate..




posted on May, 28 2011 @ 09:38 AM
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Originally posted by FoosM
I didnt say you said anything about shielding, Im asking you if you think the LM was as shielded as the CM.

Whoa, whoa. This seems like a straw man. It's based on the premise that 1. They were in the LM during the flares, and 2. that the LM needs to be as shielded as the CM for them to survive.


Because X-rays from solar flares are hazardous to persons flying in airplanes. This is after it has already been dissipated through our atmospheres.



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by FoosM

Originally posted by 000063

Originally posted by FoosM
Why are you being so defensive? Im asking a legitimate question.
You stated you didnt see any mentioned solar flares occur during Apollo 13.
I provided a link showing you a flare that occurred during Apollo 13.
I said I missed the post where you pointed it out. You linked to it, I followed the link, didn't understand what I was being shown, and openly admitted it. I'm not taking a position either way, since I don't understand the evidence.




I can't find anything about any solar flares during Apollo 13.

I was referring to that statement you made.
I said my search turned up nothing, not that they didn't exist. You presented what you claim is proof, but I can't understand it either way.


At any rate, the following videos from JW will explain, in a straightforward manner,
how many flares were recorded during the Apollo flights.
He then calculates how much rem the astronauts would have been exposed to:
He's been wrong on radiation before, he could be wrong again. I'm not watching a half-hour of video and doing research to check.



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 09:44 AM
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Originally posted by FoosM

Originally posted by 000063

Originally posted by FoosM

Originally posted by Phage

Originally posted by FoosM

I didnt say you said anything about shielding, Im asking you if you think the LM was as shielded as the CM.
Because X-rays from solar flares are hazardous to persons flying in airplanes. This is after it has already been dissipated through our atmospheres.



Is that right?
They are in a lot more danger from TSA's machines than they are from the Sun.


Your tax dollars at work.
Talk about your big hoaxes.
See how gullible the American people are?
They think their whole country is peppered with terrorists.
Your bigotry and stereotyping isn't germane to the debate, FoosM.


How am I a bigot? And dont you stereotype people who dont believe in the moonlandings?
I seen a lot of insults thrown around this thread, I dont see you lambasting anyone else about it.
You called the "American people" gullible, and said that "They think their whole country is peppered with terrorists." I'm not even American, but I know when someone's generalizing when I see it.

Incidentally, some of the people throwing around insults have been you before. I'm just telling you that your generalizing is not relevant. Keep doing it and I report it to the mods for being off-topic.



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 09:45 AM
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Originally posted by FoosM

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by FoosM
 



This is what many people who dont believe in the moon landings hang their hat on.
See if you can debunk it.


If I debunk it, will you go on record saying that the Moon landings were real?




Come on DJ, thats throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
If you debunk it, you will have put a dent into the motive, but not the crime.
So you say that proving one of Jarrah's points wrong would not cause much harm to his overall argument?



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 09:47 AM
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Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by FoosM
 



Come on DJ, thats throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
If you debunk it, you will have put a dent into the motive, but not the crime.


In other words, no. The last time I debunked one of Jarrah's videos, it proved him conclusively wrong. You still refuse even to acknowledge that. Thank you for at least acknowledging that Jarrah is a criminal.
I did the same on pg 469, and FoosM seems to have missed that too, since others on his side responded to it and he never did.

Weird how Komodo was able to find something in minutes FoosM couldn't track down in days.



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 09:50 AM
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reply to post by backinblack
 



Good job on twisting words for an agenda mate..


High praise from the Master.



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 10:27 AM
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Originally posted by nataylor

Originally posted by FoosM

They actually didnt have "space" to do anything.
Now here is a question.
Did the LM have toilets or did the astronauts have to poo and pee in their suits?


More than you could ever want to know about waste management:

When suited, they urinated in a bag. This was later drained into the urine collection system on the craft. When unsuited, depending on the mission, they had various devices they could urinate into.

Defecation, when unsuited, was done into a bag that had an adhesive seal placed over the buttocks:


The inner bag was placed into the outer bag which was rolled into the smallest possible volume and then placed in the waste stowage compartment.


When suited, they wore an absorbant garment under the liquid cooling garment that would contain any defecation.



Wow... the smell in such a small confinement must have torturous.
I mean, its not like they could just open up the window and air the place out.
Now lets get into that, letting the air out.

What happens when the LM gets depressurized so it can be opened up into the vacuum of the moon?

Moon’s Surface is an Ultra-High Vacuum ~ 10-10 Torr (day)

What is UHV?

Ultra-high vacuum (UHV) is the vacuum regime characterised by pressures lower than about 10−7 pascal or 100 nanopascals (10−9 mbar, ~10−9 torr).



Materials which are not allowed due to high vapour pressure:
majority of organic compounds cannot be used:
plastics other than teflon and PEEK: gaskets are made of copper, and are single-use; plastics in other uses are replaced with ceramics or metals
glues: special glues for high vacuum must be used
common steel: due to oxidizing, which greatly increases adsorption area, only stainless steel is used
lead: soldering is performed using lead-free solder
indium: Indium is commonly used as a deformable gasket material for vacuum seals, especially in cryogenic apparatus, but its low melting point prevents use in baked systems.
zinc, cadmium: High vapor pressures during system bake-out.
Technical limitations:
screws: threads have a high surface area and tend to "trap" gases, therefore are avoided
welding: standard welding cannot be used due to high surface area and introduction of gas chambers, which would collect gas at atmospheric pressure, and release it slowly during evacuation (removal of gas).

en.wikipedia.org...

Now I bring this up because of a recent article I read and I would like to hear people's opinion on this:


While camping out on the "Moon", the astronots were required to do their 'business' in a plastic bag in which they carefully had to stick to their buttocks... I suppose that when this 'moment' within the extremely limited confines Mr. LEM was taking place, the other astronot had to turn around... Anyway... After placing their bagged poop inside the empty food containers, this critical prescription as mandated by NASA no doubt became a stinky mess as soon as the astronots opened the hatch to go 'outside' to take a peek-a-boo of the lunar surface. This is due to the fact that Mr. LEM did not have a decompression lock, or a vestibule as the entire crew compartment of the vehicle was decompressed prior to 'exiting', and then pumped back up with 100% oxygen after a days stroll of collecting "breccia" and "basalt" was over. Inevitably, everything inside the LEM was exposed to the extreme VAC of the Moon, including the bagged poop stuffed inside the empty butter-scotch pudding cans...(this exposure of course also included their varieties of grape drink, tooth paste, nasal spray and any other liquid or gas contained within a vessel, including the incandescent light bulbs... all kaboomy...). If you happen to own a vacuum chamber, do not try this experiment...





What was NASA's plan with exposing bags, tubes, etc to the UHV of the moon?



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 10:33 AM
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reply to post by FoosM
 


Now you know why the astronauts don't like to answer a lot of questions about their trip.
Second line.



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by nataylor
 


Pretty primitive really but then I'm sure their diet was sorted to help the situation..

So Nat, do you know why on Apollo 17 they spent so much time in the LM and what did they do in all that time?

75 hours on the moon and only 22 hours outside the LM..


Well they have to maintain a doable workload. The EVAs were a fair bit of work. Upon landing, it would take time to configure the LM for the stay. It also took time to prep for the EVAs, donning the suits, configuring the LM, planning activities with Mission Control, etc. Upon returning to the LM from the EVAs, it took time to doff the suits, do housekeeping activities, recharge the PLSS units, etc. They had to have rest periods, too, to get some sleep and eat. And it would take time to prep for launch.

Going through the transcripts, you can see exactly what they're doing. Skimming through, here's a rough timeline:


LM Configuration after landing: 1.5 hours
Eat period: 0.5 hours
EVA Prep: 2 hours
EVA 1: 7 hours
Post EVA: 2 hours
EVA Debrief and photography: 1 hour
Eat period: 0.5 hours
Housekeeping: 1 hour
Sleep period: 8 hours
Eat period: 0.5 hours
EVA planning: 1.5 hours
EVA prep: 2 hours
EVA 2: 7.5 hours
Post EVA: 1.5 hours
EVA debrief: 1 hour
Eat period: 0.5 hours
Housekeeping: 1.5 hours
Sleep period: 8 hours
Eat period: 0.5 hours
EVA planning: 1.5 hours
EVA prep: 2 hours
EVA 3: 7 hours
Post EVA, including jettison: 3 hours
Eat period: 0.5 hours
EVA debrief:0.5 hours
Housekeeping: 1.0 hours
Sleep period: 8 hours
Launch prep: 0.5 hour
Eat period: 0.5 hours
Housekeeping 0.5 hours
Don suits, jettison: 1 hour
LM launch configuration and lunch prep: 2 hours

That all seems pretty reasonable as far as maintaining a schedule that isn't going to drive the astronauts to exhaustion. It's also completely in line with the other missions as far as percent of lunar stay actually spent on EVA:

Apollo 11: 12%
Apollo 12: 25%
Apollo 14: 28%
Apollo 15: 28%
Apollo 16: 29%
Apollo 17: 30%



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by FoosM

Wow... the smell in such a small confinement must have torturous.
I mean, its not like they could just open up the window and air the place out.
Now lets get into that, letting the air out.

I don't think anyone would say the experience with the waste systems were plesant. But they were adequate. As for the smell, back to the Biomedical Results of Apollo:


The inner bag was placed into the outer bag which was rolled into the smallest possible volume and then placed in the waste stowage compartment. This compartment featured a split membrane inside the door to prevent fecal bags from floating back out into the cabin once they had been placed within the compartment. For later Apollo missions, the volume provided by the waste stowage compartment was inadequate. Consequently, a waste stowage bag was provided for additional volume for the disposal of fecal bags. Both waste stowage volumes had an overboard venting capacity for gases generated in the feces.


So any gases in the waste stowage was vented outside, instead of into the cabin.


What was NASA's plan with exposing bags, tubes, etc to the UHV of the moon?
All the materials were adequate for such use. Remember, the CM was exposed to the vacuum of space, too, during EVAs. They'd been conducting EVAs like that since Gemini. Many of the food items were already vacuum-packed, so there would be little differential between the interior and exterior pressure when the spacecraft was depressurized:




posted on May, 28 2011 @ 11:36 AM
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reply to post by FoosM
 


It is evident that you have had your mind warped.......watching too much of that ignorant, ignorant Jarrah.

You might be better served actually studying the technical details of the Space Program. Get a library card, that way you can find books, and read them, without having to spend money for them....a whole range of books, with vast amounts of information....to purchase them all could get expensive...of, course having them in your collection would mean they'd be handy for quick looks, again...to refresh memory and for research.

Jarrah White is a boob.....he hasn't the first clue what he blathers on about.....he is just desperate for attention, and those who encourage his nonsense are doing a terrible disservice to science, reason --- history and rationality.



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 11:50 AM
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Young White is a very good debater. I like his channel.



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 11:54 AM
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Originally posted by nataylor
So any gases in the waste stowage was vented outside, instead of into the cabin.


The process of just going to the bathroom smells.
I doubt they could have a seal tight enough to not let the gasses escape.

But whats the deal with putting the material in empty food containers?
We got two versions here.
One where the poo is collected for further study, the other the poo was mixed with germacidal liquid.
Or is this a case of different missions different methods?




What was NASA's plan with exposing bags, tubes, etc to the UHV of the moon?
All the materials were adequate for such use. Remember, the CM was exposed to the vacuum of space, too, during EVAs. They'd been conducting EVAs like that since Gemini. Many of the food items were already vacuum-packed, so there would be little differential between the interior and exterior pressure when the spacecraft was depressurized:




But I take it the waste was not vacuum packed. What stopped it from just puffing up and releasing its contents?

Another question, what happens to the temperature of the LM cabin when they open the hatch door?
All the heat would escape, correct? Would it not then freeze inside?



edit on 28-5-2011 by FoosM because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 11:55 AM
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reply to post by FoosM
 

I'm not going to watch it.

Tell me though, how did Jarrah arrive at the dose figures from x-ray flares? Where did he get the hard x-ray flux levels? Can you link to the catalog he used?



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by FoosM
The process of just going to the bathroom smells.
I doubt they could have a seal tight enough to not let the gasses escape.

Yup. They obviously got to know each other intimately.


Originally posted by FoosM
But whats the deal with putting the material in empty food containers?
We got two versions here.
One where the poo is collected for further study, the other the poo was mixed with germacidal liquid.
Or is this a case of different missions different methods?


I can't find anything that fecal bags were specifically stored in empty food containers. Where that came from is probably that the empty food containers were also stowed in the waste stowage area, since the food could smell or provide a medium for bacteria growth.

And there's not two versions. All the fecal bags used germicidal liquid. They were also returned and analyzied for weight, contents, consistency, etc. Wanna get to know the astronauts real well? Here's are the weights of some of the fecal samples:





Originally posted by FoosM
But I take it the waste was not vacuum packed. What stopped it from just puffing up and releasing its contents?

Nope, that's why the seals when the bags were closed were designed to handle the vacuum. Again, from Biomedical Results of Apollo:


The outer transparent FE bag was used for storing the used fecal bag. Internal and external seals at the mouth of the bag made it capable of containing a 3.4 x 104-N/m2 (5 psi) gas differential pressure.




Originally posted by FoosM
Another question, what happens to the temperature of the LM cabin when they open the hatch door?
All the heat would escape, correct? Would it not then freeze inside?
It probably would not drop appreciably. Before opening the hatch, the interior would be at normal room temperature. After opening the hatch, the atmosphere would be gone, but the interior components and surfaces retain their heat. They only way they could lose heat is by radiating it, since there is no atmosphere to carry the heat away by convection. But any heat radiated to the interior is just absorbed by other parts of the interior. It very much would be like a thermos, keeping the heat of the interior bottled in.



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by FoosM


FoosM, you're bordering on being off-topic. I'm not sure what someone's lunch has to do with waste disposal.

You did not explain the relevance of said videos, as forum rules require.



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by FoosM


Originally posted by nataylor
So any gases in the waste stowage was vented outside, instead of into the cabin.


The process of just going to the bathroom smells.
I doubt they could have a seal tight enough to not let the gasses escape.


edit on 28-5-2011 by FoosM because: (no reason given)
Doubts, doubts, doubts, FoosM. Where are your facts? How is the poppy-smell relevant? Or were you just making a little joke?


edit on 2011/5/28 by 000063 because: +

edit on 2011/5/28 by 000063 because: +



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by backinblack
 



Good job on twisting words for an agenda mate..


High praise from the Master.


Well according to you Phil Plait doesn't lie, so maybe I'll have to share that honor with you then..



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 01:43 PM
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reply to post by 000063
 



You did not explain the relevance of said videos, as forum rules require.


He did explain the relevance actually..
He was questioning the exposure of bags and containers to the vacuum of the moon..



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