Illegal immigrants plan to leave over Ariz. law

Originally posted by David9176
What are they going to do? Arrest 500,000 illegals? Put them where?

Yes.

And yes.

Put them in mexico, or wherever they came from.

How about we open BOTH SIDES of the border. Allow any American to go down to mexico and buy up all the property and businesses they want to because it's way cheaper than doing it here.

Fair is fair ...

The other benefit of doing this would be that the mexicans would no longer need to sneak into the U.S. because HERE would be THERE.

[edit on 4/29/2010 by centurion1211]

Originally posted by jam321
If People think its ok if police start asking brown people, many who are Americans, to prove their citizenship based on reasonable suspicion(color), then hell with.


Let the whole ship sink.

Wake up and smell the surf. The ship is already sinking, in part due to lack of enforcement of basic laws and rules. People with no driver license, insurance or any immigration papers are on our roads. I know because I was on a jury duty and this is prevalent.

Clean up the house first and only then start thinking about redecorating.

Originally posted by centurion1211
How about we open BOTH SIDES of the border. Allow any American to go down to mexico and buy up all the property and businesses they want to because it's way cheaper than doing it here.

Fair is fair ...

Yet another time (unusual) where I agree with you 100%, centurion. There are few things if any I hate as strongly as hypocrisy, in this case hypocrisy of the Mexicans. They have protectionist laws all over the place which are enforced (much evidence from expats on this an other boards) and treat illegals in their own country like there is no hell or purgatory. Then when an American dares to ask for their papers they break in tears with "we are human, too". Yes you are, and please remain such in your own goddamn country.

New Mexico and Utah better look out. The illegals will just flood into every crevice there too. That will of course result in more states backing up AZ's plan to the point where the Federal govt. may just decide to enforce the laws on the books. After the elections of course...

Originally posted by jibeho
New Mexico and Utah better look out. The illegals will just flood into every crevice there too. That will of course result in more states backing up AZ's plan to the point where the Federal govt. may just decide to enforce the laws on the books. After the elections of course...

We are starting to see other states looking at a bill similar to AZ. The best part of all this is it will finally force the Feds to actually get off their butts and do what they should have done in the 80s. We can all agree these bills are being born out of desperation and can be abused easily, so the Feds will be forced to counter them with real action.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
We can all agree these bills are being born out of desperation and can be abused easily, so the Feds will be forced to counter them with real action.

I can't agree this is desperation. It's just common sense come lately. There is potential of abuse in enforcement of ANY regulation, so why should I bother to think about this one differently. Illegals having to move and hide? Cry me a river.

Ok? Why is this a topic? Illegal Aliens are going to leave, because of a law designed to make them leave, and they are going to do it voluntarily and not cost Arizona a dime? GREAT LAW!!!

Now, if we could make a law that would cause drug dealers and murderers and rapists to voluntarily give up, that would be even better!

Reminds me of the SouthPark episode where the boys ask the immigrants to write there "Essay." The read the book, and when they say, "Man no make no money." They all take off their hats and look down sadly!

If this is true, and the immigrants find another home, and the law does not have to be abused or strictly enforced, then this will go down as the best law ever written!

According to this article by Denver 7 News, look's like Denver Public Schools has banned travel to Arizona, over this issue....





www.thedenverchannel.com...

I agree, this could get pretty ugly. Like Civial War II. States fighting over immigrants, hostilities will rise.

Originally posted by David9176

Looks like it's already going to have an effect. I have a bad feeling about all of this.

[edit on 28-4-2010 by David9176]

Me too. I anticpate it to have a negative economic effect as well as excaserbate the crime situation as illegal immigrants who do "honest labor" either leave Arizona or turn to criminal activity to survive.

This from 2006

Nearly 12 million illegal immigrants are estimated to be living in the United States. The vast majority work in low-skill, low-wage jobs. More than half work in construction, manufacturing or leisure and hospitality.

Advocates on both sides of the immigration debate predict dramatic change if illegal immigration is drastically curtailed.

Supporters of a crackdown argue that the U.S. economy would benefit if illegal immigrants were to leave, because U.S. employers would be forced to raise wages to attract American workers.

Critics of this approach say the loss of illegal immigrants would stall the U.S. economy, saying undocumented workers do many jobs few native-born Americans will do.

The most respected recent studies show that most Americans would notice little difference in their paychecks if illegal immigrants suddenly disappeared from the United States. That's because most Americans don't directly compete with illegal immigrants for jobs.

There is one group of Americans that would benefit from a dramatic cut in illegal immigration: high-school dropouts. Most economists agree that the wages of low-skill high-school dropouts are suppressed by somewhere between 3 percent and 8 percent because of competition from immigrants, both legal and illegal. Economists speculate that for the average high-school dropout, that would mean about a $25 a week raise if there were no job competition from immigrants.


Illegal immigrants seem to have very little impact on unemployment rates. Undocumented workers certainly do take jobs that would otherwise go to legal workers.

But undocumented workers also create demand that leads to new jobs. They buy food and cars and cell phones, they get haircuts and go to restaurants. On average, there is close to no net impact on the unemployment rate.

Q: How do illegal immigrants affect the overall U.S. economy?


Illegal immigration has both negative and positive impacts on different parts of the economy. As noted above, wages for low-skilled workers go down. But that means the rest of America benefits by paying lower prices for things like restaurant meals, agricultural produce and construction.

Another negative impact is on government expenditures. Since undocumented workers generally don't pay income taxes but do use schools and other government services, they are seen as a drain on government spending.

www.npr.org...

So what we can expect.

Wages for low skilled workers (Increase)
Costs of construction, landscaping, restaurants, food (Increase)
Taxes (might slightly decrease as a result of reduced public services associated)..schools, hospital visits etc.
Local Business (decrease in demand) hair-cuts, food, general expenses. Illegal immigrants spend money.
Tax income to the state (decreases as illegal immigrant spending dips, business report less income etc)
3-8% Increase in jobs for high-school drop outs.

Overall their absense will have little effect on unemployment, a negative impact on the economy and a potentially negative impact on crime as those that choose to stay struggle to find a way to survive.

While they are heavily concentrated in a few places, they have only a minor effect on national population growth. Politicians who favor extreme measures to get rid of them aren't helping anyone - they are only scaring people in a cynical attempt to get votes.

Do illegals hurt the economy? Probably not. Providing public education for children of illegal aliens costs about $3.1 billion in the seven key states in 1993-94, according to the Urban Institute. Illegal aliens in prison cost about $471 million a year, and they consume about $445 million more in Medicaid funds. But these costs are offset by about $1.9 billion in taxes paid by illegals and billions more in consumer spending. Impoverished field workers from Mexico get all the publicity, but the INS estimates that only 31 percent of illegal aliens are Mexican. And of the 1.7 million illegal workers who applied for citizenship in 1987, less than 4 percent were in farming, fishing, or forestry. In contrast, over 4 percent were executives, managers, or professionals; 21 percent held service jobs; and 24 percent were operators, fabricators, or laborers. Illegal aliens are consumers, too.

findarticles.com...


[edit on 29-4-2010 by maybereal11]

posted on 29-4-2010 @ 12:57 PM single this post edit"quote"REPLY TO:


Sound's like we are not the only country with this problem, unique article on China's illegal immigration issue......very good article


"As illegals, the Vietnamese are willing to accept salaries well below the minimum wage and are not protected by the Labor Contract Law. Moreover, their similar appearance allows them to blend in easily with native workers to avoid detection by Guangdong police.

The minimum wage for a low-level factory worker in the Pearl River Delta is reportedly around 1,800 yuan per month, with - thanks to the labor law - double overtime pay after eight hours of work and triple pay on holidays. But factory owners can hire unskilled Vietnamese labor for as little as 1,000 yuan a month while escaping overtime and holiday pay as well as other benefits now guaranteed to Chinese workers. They can also hire Vietnamese employees during peak season and fire them in low season without offering the severance pay to which Chinese workers would be entitled.

Thus, factory owners are understandably pleased with the deluge of illegal migrants seeking work in Guangdong; some even pay people smugglers to bring workers to their factories. As for the illegal workers, mostly farmers from Vietnam, they are happy to have a job that pays more than anything they could find at home.

Indeed, so agreeable is this illicit meeting of supply and demand in Guangdong that a number of Chinese academics have called on the government to allow foreign laborers to work in China. So far, these calls have been ignored.

Instead, Guangdong police claim to be cracking down on illegal labor. According to the official Xinhua News Agency, last year provincial police deported 180 foreigners who did not have valid work permits. So far this year, 53 illegal migrants from Vietnam have been arrested in Guangxi as they traveled on a bus toward Guangdong, and 66 others were seized on another bus in the Guangdong city of Zhuhai. Police also said they discovered 24 illegal Vietnamese workers in plastics factory in another Guangdong city, Qingyuan.

But these modest arrests no doubt represent only a drop in the bucket of illegal immigration in the Pearl River Delta".

Kent Ewing is a Hong Kong-based teacher and writer. He can be reached at [email protected].

(Copyright 2010 Asia Times Online (Holdings) Ltd. All rights reserved. Please contact us about sales, syndication and republishing.)




www.atimes.com...






www.atimes.com...

www.atimes.com...





[edit on 29-4-2010 by freetree64]

[edit on 29-4-2010 by freetree64]

Originally posted by Janky Red

Then we have the 4th- the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Well the new law does state that if the person is committing a crime, and is caught or stopped by police and they are unable to produce ID, then its ok to check their status. I dont see why its wrong to enforce immigration laws. Unless we need to deputize a million Immigration Officers to walk the streets of the US to enforce the laws, I dont see any other way of enforcing the law. After all, what is the point of a law if there is no way to enforce it? Does that mean we should just ignore all our imigration laws? Or should we only enforce them at the border and entry points to the US, and then no more enforcement inside the US? In Mexico they can stop you at checkpoints to check your papers. if you dont have them, then may God have mercy on you.

the last sentence of the 14th, 1. ...nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

and the constitution of AZ itself

the 4th is the strongest- IMO

Well it is due-process. If you are commiting a crime (robbery, burglary, smuggling drugs/humans, kidnapping, DUI, DWI, gang banging, murdering, battery, assault, running red lights, driving without insurance, no licence plates, breaking and entering, trespassing on private property, weapon violations, speeding, identity theft, fraud, etc) and you are then legally stopped by the police or arrested, then they have the right to check your status. If you dont have the proper papers (ie illegally here) and its true, well good bye! You are in violation of immigration laws and you are deported. TS. They cannot just stop you, say, "Hey you look mexican, give us your papers" and then deport you. That is not due-process.

It's about time. Hopefully TX is next with a similar law. My cousin and i used to be tile-setters back in the day. We really took pride in our work. We watched our wages go from around $3.00 psf to around 99 cents psf.

The illegals would do it for that much cheaper and get it done twice as fast cause they used like 10 guys and did sh!tty work.
Unfortunately home builders back in the boom were more interested in quanity over quality. Our hours of work really dropped off in a 5 year period due to the illegals. The only way we stayed remotely busy was to focus on more high-end custom work, where husbands didn't want 10 illegals in his home with his wife while he was at work.

The illegals were pretty damn trashy in the new homes they worked. They'd throw their trash all around, refried beans would literally be smeared on stuff, they'd take dumps in closets and attics, and worst of all, new bath-tubs have a plastic liner in them to keep scratches, drywall mud, etc. off them until the new home is almost completely finished out. The illegals would piss in the tubs and the drains would get clogged with their taco truck trash and fill up. We would have to literally put rubber gloves on and pull the trash from the drains for the piss to drain.

That's just a sample of what we witnessed on a daily basis. Every now and then we would pick-up a few jobs in a new home area that was worked with more whites. And in those areas we wouldn't have to deal with nealry any of that stuff.
The illegals do work hard, but they bring their 3rd world way of living, surviving, building and culture with them and it's not real clean.
I'm talking from 5 years of first-hand experience with them.

Oh yeah, and the other thing that sucks is the "no speaky english" game they play. 80% CAN speak enough to get by, but act like they can't. It's one of their jokes they love.
Oh, and another one they love was to take a styrofoam plate from a taco truck, stick a sharp-a$$ sheetrock nail into it and turn it upside down and lay it in the yard or garage.
The illegals knew, (and most savy whites too), but delivery guys and some others would walk over and step on what appeared to be nothing more than a used taco plate and get a nail drove deep into their foot.
The illegals are pranksters big-time.
I'll be glad to see some hard working Americans get some labor jobs again.

reply to post by freetree64

"As illegals, the Vietnamese are willing to accept salaries well below the minimum wage and are not protected by the Labor Contract Law. Moreover, their similar appearance allows them to blend in easily with native workers to avoid detection by Guangdong police.

I have a similar construction experience to the poster above me, but this quote from freetree got me thinking of a story that I like to share. I was working a Masonary job with a bunch of illegals, and they kept calling this one young kid a "Guatemalen." It was very funny to them for some reason, but my other buddy and I did not get the joke. Eventually we asked them what was so funny about it, and the respnse made me speechless. He said, "The Guatemalens are trash! They keep sneaking over the border and stealing the good Mexican jobs!"

How the h*ll do you respond to an illegal alien working beside you and driving your wages down, when he is complaining about illegal aliens in his own country? Speechless I tell you!

There used to be consensus in the medical community that parasites are bad for us.

Now we are discovering that lack of parasites in people might be at the root of auto-immune diseases. Asthma, Allergies, even MS.

Some folks have even infected themselves with the appropriate parasites with great results.

Many doctors even prescribe probiotics now to try and "restore" digestive balance.

You see...we evolved with parasites and while we might think being extra-healthy means ridding ourselves of all parasites, our bodies sometimes get thrown out of whack in thier absense.

Now I know illigal immigrants ar not parasites, but the analogy is worth considering and I am confident that they serve an economic purpose in this country and that while we may think it is a great idea to eliminate them from our borders...I suspect there will be an unexpected and significant negative economic impact.

I will be interested to see the effects of this law in AZ.

reply to post by David9176


what is more wierd, the fact that you admit that there are 500k illegals, and you are so willing to criticize others for trying to solve the problem when you have given up.

I bet you think paying taxes make you feel good. Citizens have to carry around id to do anything, just ask obama about his birth certificate.

If i have to show id to a cop driving a car in Az so should any other person driving.

You got no problems sending soldiers to Iraq, when war was never declared by congress.

When a state decides to pass laws to defend its communities from outside forces invading them and left in the cold by its defenders. Its all the sudden a problem because it was not ran through your federal failure of a government.

Lets let goldman sachs ceo get together with obama and write financial reform laws, At the same time we are prosecuting them for fraud.

Ya no conflict of interest there.

Let me guess,the feds immigration bill was written by illegals as well?

Can you see where this is going now?

What is likely to happen now is further victimization of illegal immigrants in the media, and especially from politicians who can see an advantageous angle in all of this.

Once Arizona has been fully vilified and illegals have enough sympathy there is going to be a major presidential and congressional push for Amnesty for all illegals in this country, and a simplified system for which immigrants can legally enter the country and exploit the US taxpayers even more.

Expect draft legislation on this very soon!

Elections are coming and there are many who would benefit from the Hispanic vote.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by amatrine
Probably not because of the law. It is not even in effect. Probably because Sheriff Joe just announced he is doing another sweep this week.

Absolutely!!!! I live in Arizona.

Sheriff Joe has been under Federal investigation.

This new law legalizes his methods.

Like a lot of LEOs out there, Joe does not have a perfect record,
but he does get results and it works better than ignoring the issue.

We tried ignoring it for years and we end up with Phoenix being
the kidnap for ransom capitol of the US.

We end up with a dead rancher, and 13 butchered women.

We have 68 different types of Visas, they could get in if they want to.

Hell the 9-11 terrorists were able to get Visa's.

I do not buy into all this hispanic cryin, if they want a work visa
they could get one.

If 19 terrorists can do it, then everyone else can too.

The rubber stamp is ready for you.

The L1 Visa has no limit.

Ok, here goes, tongue in cheek.... Why don't we quickly get a national call out for people to work the oil spill, tell them we are paying $13.00 an hour wage's, and then when all the illegal aliens come to snap up those great paying job's, we just load em up, tell them they have to go out to an island to start the clean up, and send em right across the gulf, back to good ol home again, and bang problem solved..... just a thought

reply to post by LurkerMan

earth to ats user, being an american aint cheap. seen the national debt lately? if something at the store costs too much, or the line to pay for it too long does that give you the right to just take it?

I didn't say it was right, sorry if I didn't make that clear. I was simply pointing out to those who think it's a snap to emigrate legally, that it's actually very expensive and time-consuming. And I'm sure the reason that it IS so expensive and time-consuming is to ensure that anyone who emigrates legally can pull their own weight and be a drain on society. Or maybe it's just to put more money in the government coffers. Who knows the mind of the powers that be. Like a new car, or a bigger house, etc, those who can't afford it shouldn't steal it.