All Roads Lead to Rome

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

I don't know what happened, but my goal as a unhappy but devout christian was to see if I could find out how the first Christians worshiped, only because of my love for Christ and my desire to worship him the true way,

Stormy, I know you've decided to worship Christ on your own. Is there anywhere in a text where Christ instructs people to worship him? Just curious.

reply to post by jackflap


That was a seriously good find Jackflap and yet one more example of Constantine's influence on the creation of modern day Christianity, in my humble opinion.
Maybe Masqua or Proto could add to this thought.

As was said by Masqua, Constantine was pragmatic and most interested in power and he saw the willingness of Christians to give themselves up for martyrdom.
For a cause.
This must have been most impressive to someone who sought power by using the strength of others.
And PT piggybacked those ideas with his points on the creation of the Christian soldiers.

I see this amalgamation of religions that make up what is modern day Christianity to be basically Constantine's commissioned gift to the Empire.

Just as Vespasian and Titus built the Flavian Amphitheater.

Constantine established Christianity.
And now we have good Christian soldiers willingly dying in the Middle East, but even more willingly KILLING others in the middle east.

Good Christian Soldiers.

That was a really good find Jackflap.
I am still taking it all in.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by HothSnake

 

What makes you assume I wasn't aware of JP Morgans other crimes such as stealing the patent for the lightbuld away from Edison? Sadly, ruthless ambition is more often the way to success than joining some cabal.

Sorry, but being able to provide a credible source to back up your claims is completely necessary to getting anyone to believe those claims, that hasn't already came with the same set of opinions.

Not 0nly must you provide a source, but you need to also provide a quote from that source which backs up your claims, as I have done with in my posts.

You on the other hand make lots of grand claims but fail to back up those claims with anything but bravado. If my links back up your claims, all you have to do is quote those parts that back up your claims.

Figures, you blame everything on Bankers, who you claim are controlled by the Roman Catholic Church, but odds are that you are completely against government regulation of the banks, and was all for Gingrich's de-regulation that created our current economic mess.

Edit to add

No, the houses didn't go to the banks in the Great Depression, they were auctioned off and most of them were bought back for pennies on the dollar by the people who lost the homes in the bankruptcy in the first place.
[edit on 2-5-2010 by poet1b]

What? I had you pegged poet1b You see, the mere fact that you are still falling for the false dichotomy that is the fake two party system within a classic Hegelian Dialectical ruse, that has been the state of American politics for decades, just proves to me that your economics and history are skewed by your lack of objectivity.

I assumed that you didn't know anything about JP Morgan because you erroniously claimed that he was a self-made man that was a rogue entity within the American economy at the turn of the last century. Clearly, based on every peice of information that can be gleaned from just about every source on the internet, and hell, his own autobiography, you were wrong. I made that statement based on your silly assertion that bankers were just opportunistic.... simply very lucky individuals that just so happened to be in just the right place at just the right time, with just the right resources by which to take advantage of it. I was using your musings on JP Morgan so as to illustrate how cantradictory and silly your assertions are. How can one be a con, a cheat, and just a lucky opportunist? I was trying to get you to stop being so silly and notice that cons, cheats, and thieves aren't all that lucky, they're just cons, cheats, and thieves. At every turn you prove yourself wrong, which is why I seriously need to stop typing these things out to you.

I've backed up my claims and my sources with REAL history, and anyone that reads this thread will be able to see that. You, on the other hand, have done nothing but call names, espouse democratic party propaganda, use logical fallacy after logical fallacy in a vain attempt at discrediting, as opposed to actually debating or disproving, failed to provide any noteworthy source, display some of the most astoundingly absurd views on economics, and shown a severe lack of knowledge about the historical events and the people involved that you cite.

That's why this will be the last time that I respond to you. I have a hard time reading your posts and actually taking you seriously. Not to insult you or anything, but I think that you are just playing games, and I've wasted enough of my time playing these games, and I won't detract from Protos thread any further, which is clearly your goal.

As for the bankers... Here you go again? Newt Gingrich? You see this is what I'm talking about. All of this happened under Bill Clinton, Robert "Goldman Sachs" Rubin, and Alan Greenspan. Just about every congressman was involved, not just the republicans. You really have to stop letting them fool you... It's getting embarassing.

Actually, I'm for getting rid of the fraudulent fractional reserve central banking scam all together. I don't think that it needs to be regulated or deregulated, but removed all together. It's like asking someone, "would you like a little cancer or a lot of cancer?" It will start out small, but it will grow into something huge eventually. That's the thing about money... it can be used to buy off just about anyone.

Originally posted by Hemisphere

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

I don't know what happened, but my goal as a unhappy but devout christian was to see if I could find out how the first Christians worshiped, only because of my love for Christ and my desire to worship him the true way,

Stormy, I know you've decided to worship Christ on your own. Is there anywhere in a text where Christ instructs people to worship him? Just curious.

Hi Hemi,
I hesitated to use the word worship, but throughout most of my life I did have unwavering faith,

"That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;"

I am not what people would call a very good christian, and maybe that is a good thing, I love the beauty that can be found in many ancient religions and the wisdom teachings,

I will never deny Christ.

My faith has gotten me through some rough times, it is horrible to lose ones faith, I have been there, I have doubts,

I was raised believing I would see my loved ones again and there is more to life then this earthly experience, I embrace all the positive and beautiful teachings of Christianity.

It been a long life, lol


I am tired.

[edit on 103131p://bSunday2010 by Stormdancer777]

reply to post by Stormdancer777

"That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;"

I don't remember who wrote the above quote off hand but it wasn't Jesus, all the stories in the bible were written long after he was gone, they are only stories from memory and some could very well be made up, who knows what is true or not.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

Originally posted by Hemisphere

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

I don't know what happened, but my goal as a unhappy but devout christian was to see if I could find out how the first Christians worshiped, only because of my love for Christ and my desire to worship him the true way,

Stormy, I know you've decided to worship Christ on your own. Is there anywhere in a text where Christ instructs people to worship him? Just curious.

Hi Hemi,
I hesitated to use the word worship, but throughout most of my life I did have unwavering faith,

"That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;"

I am not what people would call a very good christian, and maybe that is a good thing, I love the beauty that can be found in many ancient religions and the wisdom teachings,

I will never deny Christ.

My faith has gotten me through some rough times, it is horrible to lose ones faith, I have been there, I have doubts,

I was raised believing I would see my loved ones again and there is more to life then this earthly experience, I embrace all the positive and beautiful teachings of Christianity.

It been a long life, lol


I am tired.

Thanks for that Stormy. Maybe you are not what most would call a good Christian but you seem to be a good person or someone striving to be good. That's an admirable goal, perhaps the most admirable with or without the Christian modifier. Many of us hope despite any current beliefs for more to life.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


My dear friend, it doesn't matter what the truth is. If you are in need of comfort, and your faith provides you that comfort, then let that peace be your answer.

Strength in the maelstrom...that is what your faith should provide. If you recieved this strength, then it worked as it should.

I was raised by a very devout and open minded woman. My grandparents were fundies on the sperm donors side, and maternal side was progressive Lutheran types. I drifted into Presbyterian for awhile, since my best friends dad was the pastor and i wanted to be in youth group.

I embrace all the core concepts of Christianity. The "self evident truths". The things that define me as an American, and the progeny of a Christian culture. But i am no Christian. I am a Buddhist (although that really isn't a religion, but more of a mental training type of concept, with the goal to use logic to unravel lifes mysteries).

My mom, being so devout in her belief (she is now Seventh Day Adventist), it is nice to talk to her and find that she so easily finds the parellels in her faith and mine. Of course, like i said, Buddhism is not a religion, but rather fits as a facade over other religious beliefs (until you ascend religion altogether, but that is something entirely too much for this thread).

One thing she and I have discussed is the concept that there is a "core religion" that precedes all that we have today. My thought, however, has been more that faith and religion were constructs of the human mind, used as psychological responses. There seems to be a core belief because the "machinery" to conduct the rationalization and logic tends to create the same types of results. The same general trends of belief elements.

I believe that just as the universe has a design system employing fractals in the physical creation, the same approach is used in the mental creation. Our brains, our minds are bound by the laws of the universe. They are constructs of this universe. They will follow the same rules as this universe. The similarity of thought would be a logical conclusion in such a philosophy.

reply to post by Josephus23

As was said by Masqua, Constantine was pragmatic and most interested in power and he saw the willingness of Christians to give themselves up for martyrdom.
For a cause.
This must have been most impressive to someone who sought power by using the strength of others.
And PT piggybacked those ideas with his points on the creation of the Christian soldiers.

I see this amalgamation of religions that make up what is modern day Christianity to be basically Constantine's commissioned gift to the Empire.

I still feel that although Constantine was the one who put the finalized version of the plan in motion, that it was hundreds of years in the making and divised by Caesar and Octavian with the Pharisees to begin slowly laying the ground work and painstakingly growing the cults to make it all work.

When you actually read what the Ten Commandments are saying, they are condoning and promoting a slave based commerce system, and taxation, and statist ideals, even establishing the notion of resident aliens inside of states.

That’s clearly not a God talking but a government talking.

Then when you add this, further bit from Ten Commandments:

For I will cast out nations before you, and enlarge your borders; no one shall covet your land when you go up to appear before the Lord your God three times in the year.

What you can see is the system was designed to expand the state, based on taxation three times a year, good thing we don’t have three taxes collected each year like Federal Income Tax, Social Security Tax, and Medicare Tax!



God of course and the State are one in the same thanks to this plan and Constantines execution of it.

That they hid the fact that they were really just promoting a slave based commerce system, of taxation, and harsh laws, and using it to ever expand and enlarge the borders of the empire in the stories based largely off of the life and times of Julius Caesar, who had a tendency to be forgiving to his enemies, generous to the common man, and died for the greed of the patricians, into a quasi fictional character of Jesus, to offset the cruel nature of the God/State in an epic story of tragedy and conquest, and Armageddon as a means to distract from those root perversions and so many people fell hostage to its violent indoctrination and instilment practically at birth as a way to define life and the universe, is well something that could only have been an invention of Rome, since it typifies and illustrates exactly what Rome does.

Like I have tried to show people the key to understanding the present, requires understanding the roots of it all in the past, the roots of the religion itself are the ten commandments, which are neither spiritual or liberating, but harsh, unyielding, enslaving, taxing and murderous in every way.

That’s Rome and not a God, that’s men dreaming of conquest and riches not a God.

The fact that we see so many posters, claim no matter what, they will never give up this circular faith based reasoning that ignores every root fact involved with it, to create abject fantasy as a reality, that is murderous and they clearly don’t care, does display why Rome felt the system would be so effective and took great pains to create, instill and propagate it.

There are no accidents, or random occurrences, or coincidences in the universe, everything happens for a reason, and to suggest a benevolent all seeing, wise and compassionate loving God, promoted a slavery based, taxation and commerce system, based on war, and death, is just totally illogical and it will drive the world to a one world government through those compromised peoples inability to separate fact from fiction, by the most horrific and heinous violence and suffering the world has ever seen.

What a Shakespearean tragedy that people actually equate this with love or god.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Excellent post Proto, very clear and concise, you would have to be blind and deaf not to see how we got where we are today. I don't know if there is a God, but if that is Him it certainly wouldn't be my God.

Thank you my friend.

[edit on 3-5-2010 by Aquarius1]

Originally posted by Aquarius1
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Excellent post Proto, very clear and concise, you would have to be blind and deaf not to see how we got where we are today. I don't know if there is a God, but if that is Him it certainly wouldn't be my God.

Thank you my friend.

[edit on 3-5-2010 by Aquarius1]

Originally posted by Aquarius1
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Excellent post Proto, very clear and concise, you would have to be blind and deaf not to see how we got where we are today. I don't know if there is a God, but it that is Him it certainly wouldn't be my God.

Thank you my friend.

You are quite welcome my friend, when you understand that the rudiments are key to everything, and it’s the foundational elements that are the core of everything, you really have to look at the Ten Commandments as a stand alone set of laws, without weaving the later stories and myths into trying to define them.

The Ten Commandments are clear.

1. That a slavery based commerce system is preferred.


(Right there we have just exposed the whole lie, because the Ten Commandments were supposedly given to the Hebrews on their way from Egypt after having been led out of bondage and slavery. So how the heck did the slaves acquire slaves, and why would their God who didn’t want them enslaved, want them to have slaves?)

2. The existence as God, the State being all powerful and harsh laws, so harsh that if you broke the law, your children, their children, and their children would be punished too.
3. Statist ideals, where it clearly defines resident aliens within a state, and how the state should categorize them and treat them.
4. Taxation, the State/God getting first right of everything in the way of an offering or Tax.
5. War and conquest, if you obey the state, and pay your tax, the state will expand through might and violence off of the slavery based commerce system and taxation.

Those are the key elements to the Ten Commandments that provide the motive/opportunity and benefit of making God and the State one and the same, and synonymous with one another.

No matter what kind of fanciful stories you add on top of that, most of those stories, glorifying violence, death and suffering, poverty and sacrifice and being submissive to it all, you can’t escape the root core principles of the Ten Commandments, which are considered to be the only time, God spoke in a physical form to a human being.

Jews dispute Jesus was the Son of God even though it was supposedly the Hebrew religion that bore him. Islamists rejected Jesus too as the Son of God but considered him to be a prophet as they considered Mohammed to be a Prophet.

In other words only the middle of the three sects, the Christians consider Jesus to have been a direct link to God, the Jews considered him a criminal and the Torah has him burning in hell as a blasphemer and the Muslims consider him just a prophet, and of course Apollo was the God of prophecy, and prophets are nothing but people to be considered as channels and channeling God.

So we have the classic two sides against the middle, an anvil, something to forge, and a hammer to strike against it.

When you consider that it’s all an obvious lie, that the feed Jews were towing slaves of their own????

The whole story falls apart at the beginning, which is why it had to be imposed through violence and radicals and basically kept out of the study of the masses, for the first several centuries by prohibiting from owning the texts, while the pagan religions were stamped out and the indoctrination process became more or less societal and familiar at birth.

It is nothing but a system of slavery, taxation, and war that has killed countless millions though out the two millennia it’s been in existence.

That’s not a God at work, and what really amazes me are the people who believe simultaneously in this concept of God and space aliens and reptilians also being involved, and God not even protecting his people from them, the God that wanted a slavery based commerce system, taxation, and the state to expand constantly through war, as a reward for obeying harsh laws, using the slavery based commerce system and paying taxes, by rewarding them with more slaves and property.

That’s pure Rome!

The guy who posted this is an elite.

Originally posted by dave2770
The guy who posted this is an elite.

Does this mean I am insanely rich and powerful?

My landlord is going to be so happy to hear I will finally be able to pay the rent on time!



I won't deny I am a force of nature though!

i knew that Constantine started the conversion to Christianity within the empire

But only just found out who sealed it...

Theodosius promoted Nicene Trinitarianism within Christianity and Christianity within the Empire. On 27 February 380, he declared "Catholic Christianity" the only legitimate imperial religion, ending state support for the traditional Roman religion.

en.wikipedia.org...

Theodosius 1 around 380 AD

During all his reign Theodosius took severe measures against the surviving remnants of paganism.
In 388 a prefect was sent around Egypt, Syria, and Asia Minor for the purpose of destroying temples and breaking up pagan associations; it was then that the Serapeum at Alexandria was destroyed (Socr., V, 16). Libanius wrote a "Lamentation" about the destruction of the fanes of the gods (peri ton leron, ed. R. Foerster, Bibl. Script. Gr. et Rom. Teubner). In 391 Theodosius refused to allow the Altar of Victory to be restored in the Roman Senate (cf. Gibbon, "Decline and Fall", xxviii).

Pagan sacrifices, omens, and witchcraft were to be punished as loesa majestas (Cod. Theod., XVI, X, 10-12). In short his laws put an end finally to the old cult, at any rate as far as open and public use is concerned. One of its last acts was a despairing appeal to the sword, which offers again the dramatic situation of a field of battle on which the religion of Europe seemed to depend.
Argobast, the Frankish tutor of Valentinian II, at least indirectly caused his ward's death (Hodgkin, "Italy and Her Invaders", I, 590) and set up a rhetorician, Eugenius, in his stead (15 May, 392). Theodosius hastened to Italy to avenge this crime.

Eugenius, although nominally a Christian, tried to unite the remains of paganism in his defence. He set up pagan altars again (including that of Victory at Rome), his soldiers marched under the standard of Hercules invictus. But near Aquileia on 6 Sept., 394, once more the Christian Labarum triumphed over the banner of the ancient gods; Theodosius entered Rome sole master of the now finally Christian empire. Further laws enforced the keeping of Sunday and the disabilities of pagans, Jews, and heretics. During the greater part of his reign Theodosius was in intimate relation with St. Ambrose.

The story of the emperor's worst crime, the massacre of at least 7000 citizens of Thessalonica in revenge for a tumult (April, 390); of St. Ambrose's refusal to allow him to enter the Church; of his acceptance of eight months of penance, is one of the memorable incidents of Church history.

straight from the catholic encyclopedia..www.newadvent.org...

[edit on 3-5-2010 by 2theC]

I'm still following all this... just some input.

The link between the emergence of catholic Christianity during the 3rd and 4th centuries and Roman jurisdiction is evident. But is there a link tying the actions undertaken by Theodosius I and Constantine back to any of the Caesars? Proto I see you arguing for this point but I can't find any evidence to support what you're saying, how did you come to deduce this connection?

Just adding on. If Theodosius I declared Catholic Christianity as the only religion, then how does Eastern orthodoxy play into all this? I was always taught that the church was one up until the Great Schism. Are you stating that the church was always Catholic and that the Eastern church was created through the Schism itself?

reply to post by serbsta


more from the catholic encyclopedia...

His two sons Arcadius and Honorius had already been proclaimed Augustus during his life. Arcadius became emperor of the eastern half of the empire, Honorius of the western. The Roman world was never again united. Theodosius stands out as the destroyer of heresy and paganism, as the last sovereign of the undivided empire.

so the two parts east and west never to be one again...was this how the eastern orthodox christianity came about?

i like how the western side was taken by Honorius - like honouring something?

the eastern half by Arcadius - like arcade where the games are played!

excuse me, i find things in words i usually can't explain...

Originally posted by 2theC
Arcadius became emperor of the eastern half of the empire, Honorius of the western.

so the two parts east and west never to be one again...was this how the eastern orthodox christianity came about?

Partly. Roughly speaking, the east was Greek-speaking and the west was Latin-speaking. That was another factor. They just never came together again. Both halves would want to call themselves catholic- and both halves would want to call themselves orthodox. Obviously they've each taken one of those labels. But, if you're American, you will know that non-Republicans are not necessarily monarchists, and non-Democrats are not necessarily undemocratic.



[edit on 3-5-2010 by DISRAELI]

reply to post by serbsta

The link between the emergence of catholic Christianity during the 3rd and 4th centuries and Roman jurisdiction is evident. But is there a link tying the actions undertaken by Theodosius I and Constantine back to any of the Caesars? Proto I see you arguing for this point but I can't find any evidence to support what you're saying, how did you come to deduce this connection?

This is what makes it a conspiracy!

My contention is nothing develops randomly as an accident.

That it took hundreds of years for Christianity to make the critical mass impact in Rome and on Rome, once it first started working it's way into the Empire.

Further that it started working it's way into the Empire around the time of Caesar.

That it was Caesar who was most ambitious of all the Emperors, and Ceasear and Augustus (Octatvian) who were most brilliant and cunning of all the Emperors.

That it was Caesar and Augustus who really racheted up the debt with the Pharissees and would have conspired with them, in order to grow the cult and make the whole plan work as I contend.

That Julius Christ and Julius Caesar are similiar charachters as far as basic attributes.

That Caesar likely did not die and spent 7 days unconscious before reviving on 3/22 after his Senate attack, the secret of the Skull and Bones 322.

That he spent 13 more years alive working with Anthony, Lepidus, and Octavian from seclusion in Seborga.

Where the Poor Militia of Christ was dubbed by the Prince Abbot, that became the Knights Templar, that became the Masons.

The critical building blocks of making the New Rome/Atlantis.

No you won't find any available information to support this online, or in books, which is because and why, it's a secret of the secret societies and Rome.

This is why I posted the thread into General Conspiracies, because it is not a Religious Conspiracy.

It's a take over the world conspiracy, which is what Caesar's ultimate ambition was.

I believe when you really look at every element from the 10 Commandments on, you can see how the religion that would supplant polytheism in the Empire was really based on a set of laws that promoted slave based commerce, taxation, statism and war, which is exactly what the Romans have done, right on up through today.

In my humble reckoning the only personality in all of recorded history who has this kind of genius is Gaius Julius Caesar closely followed by Augustus Caesar.

This had to have been painstakingly grown, starting in their time, or one heck of an accident, or coincidence for a much lesser intelligent Constantine to have seen the brilliance in siezing it and building upon it, and I neither believe in accident or coincidence.

Since the base religion has no real virtue from a spiritual perspective, being built on Slavery for Commerce, Taxation, Statism and War, the precise opposite of the spiritual components Rome pushes to obscure the true and obvious nature of the religion, it could not have accidentally supplanted the much more user friendly of polytheism to the masses.

It had to be planned, and only Caesar and the Pharissees could have planned it, and those would be the two entities that had the strongest motive and greatest opportunity to do so.

My Original Post is long, but rereading it, might help people having trouble realizing how I have connected the dots.

Thanks.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Fair enough. But again, there is zero proof whatsoever tying any of the Caesar's and their supposed world dominating ideological masterpieces with the actions taken by Constantine. You say that you are connecting the dots, but you can't connect the dots if you have no pen.

Originally posted by serbsta
Just adding on. If Theodosius I declared Catholic Christianity as the only religion, then how does Eastern orthodoxy play into all this? I was always taught that the church was one up until the Great Schism. Are you stating that the church was always Catholic and that the Eastern church was created through the Schism itself?

The key is St. Paul. I'm going purely by memory here, as I'm in the process of moving and ALL of my books are packed in boxes with the exception of Gibbons book on the Roman Empire.

Paul grew up in the Greek traditions but created the foundations of the Roman Church. The differences between the two may be miniscule, but do exist.

At the first council of Nicea, the true schisms in the Roman/Greek churches became apparent and were cause for much killing. It was to be decided whether Jesus was LIKE God (homoiousios) or Jesus was the SAME AS God (homoousios). The third notion, that Jesus was UNLIKE God (anhomoios) never really got the nod at all.

The eastern churches did not abide Jesus being LIKE God.

Looking at Arius, you would find that the centrist notion of a Jesus being LIKE God was more popular than the position Paul proposed as being the SAME. Paul's idea eventually won out and that was the beginning of the Catholic Chrch we know today.

Arius was denounced at the First Council (321) and began the process of shutting Arius up and that faith (carried on by Valens) was finally eradicated in 378, at the hands of Theodosis and his wife St Flacilla at the battle of Adrianople.

sp edit

[edit on 3/5/10 by masqua]

There's more to the story than Proto would have you believe.

While I am not as well-versed on history as others,I know what I see when I see it,and I offer this up for those who wish to look more into these things.

"But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate." Revelation 2:6

Nicolatians: The word Nicolatians, meaning follower of Nicolaus, which in the Greek comes from the two Greek words nikos (conquer) and laos (people) in other words conquer the people. The word Baalam is a Hebrew word meaning not of the people or destroy the people. In other words Nicolatians and Balaam mean the same thing in Greek and Hebrew. They represent false prophets who infiltrate the church to destroy the people of God through idolatry and sexual immorality.

www.apocalipsis.org...

In Pergamum, the Nicolatians compromised with the world. They
taught that one could hold true to the faith as well as participating in the
feasts and ceremonies of the cults. This involved sacrificing food to idols as
well as engaging in sexual immorality. But this compromise with pagan
society was not to be tolerated within the church. That's what Christ had
against this church. They tolerated a group who compromised with the
world.

www.williamsburgcrc.org...

"I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth."
Revelation 2:13

Pergamum had no less than at least four temples devoted to worshipping various gods. One of the temples was dedicated to a snake-god, and the people who went there actually worshipped
snakes and prayed to the snake-god for healing. In addition to the temples, Pergamum also had the largest library of the time – 200,000 volumes of written material. Now all of these volumes had nothing to do with Jewish or Christian writings, but rather writings about philosophies, gods and goddesses, the latest and greatest scientific discoveries and findings, and on and on. Not only that, Pergamum had a booming business in the greatest new ‘thing’ at that time –manufacturing parchment.
To top it all off, Pergamum was also a big place for emperor worship, and the very first shrine had been built there to worship the Roman Emperors. That shrine was a place of worship for Emperor Augustus – as in Caesar Augustus; the Emperor who was ruling the empire at the time of Christ’s birth.
And in the middle of this all, were the Christians – the outlawed, hated Christians who were considered backwards in their thinking,...

lcchanover.com...

1. Jesus knows they live where Satan has seated himself as ruler in the hearts and minds of the residents of Pergamum.
2. It could also be a reference to Pergamum as the seat of authority for Rome.
3. Satan’s goal has always been and will always be to lure believers in Jesus Christ to deny/compromise their allegiance to Him by entering into the values and lifestyles of unbelievers.
Matt. 16:23
1. To “hold fast My name” means
2. To not “deny My faith” (he doesn’t say “deny your faith”) indicates that Jesus sees their faithfulness as His faithfulness. Gal. 2:20
3. Jesus specifies a time when perhaps the pressure was the greatest - when Antipas was killed for holding fast Jesus’ name. Even in the face of such opposition–even at the risk of losing life–the Pergamene Christians held fast.

www.spiritofelijah.com...

This is something to think about!...
From "Apollyon Rising 2012"http://defenderpublishing.blogspot.com/2009/06/part-nineread-it-before-it-is-banned-by.html

Approximately two-thousand years after Revelation 2:13 was written, German archeologists removed the massive altar of Zeus from the ruins of Pergamos and took it to Berlin, where it was restored as the centerpiece of the Pergamon Museum. It is here that Hitler first adored it, later building an outdoor replica of it from which he gave a series of speeches that mesmerized many Germans.

“Fast forward about another 75 years,” says blogger El Gallo. “Another charismatic young politician mesmerizes huge German crowds with a rousing speech in Berlin. Barack Hussein Obama…. [and] did Barack Obama visit… the Great Altar of Zeus…? Presumably he did.” [38]

Whether Obama received inspiration from the throne of Satan while in Berlin or not, what he did next was astonishing. Upon returning to the United States, he immediately commissioned the construction of a Greek-columned stage from which he made his acceptance speech for his party’s nomination. Because Greek temples such as those built to honor Zeus were thought to house the patron deity, the GOP ridiculed Obama, mocking him as playing Zeus of “Mount Olympus” and accusing his supporters of “kneeling” before the “Temple of Obama.” The New York Post ran an enlightening Convention Special supplement on August 28th, 2008 with the telling headline: ‘O’ MY GOD: DEMS ERECT OBAMA TEMPLE blazoned across the front cover. But it was not until blogger Joel Richardson pointed out how the design of Obama’s stage was a dead ringer for the Great Altar of Zeus

My point is,the same system the Bible warns of is alive and well,and we can see the roots of it woven completely throughout our world today.

If it is as entrenched as Proto says it is,and as spiritually condemned as I say it is,it is a very serious matter,one that requires a serious study from all angles.

There is another truth to be found,and that requires acknowledging Biblical truths. Thanks to the Reformation,the word of God has gone out to all the world.

To this day,as I referenced earlier,only Bible-believing Christians are the enemy of the Catholic church!www.texemarrs.com...

As much as it's been shown that Rome is "the bad guy",don't you think "The enemy of my enemy is my friend"?

As much as we don't like it,no one is going to be able to take this beast down. It doesn't mean one has to subscribe to their beliefs. So,we may have to pay taxes,we will have stifling regulations placed on us,and we may even face death,but there are spiritual matters at stake. While I have to live "in the world",I do not feel that I am "of the world".

We all have to die sooner or later. I'm not living my life in fear of what the world can do to me. God says,"Vengeance is mine",and as Christians,we do not wage war as the world does. My goal is to love others as God first loved us.

The New Testament is a wonderful illustration of how followers of Christ are to live,and that is what I try to do,with God's grace. This is why I stand firm on His precepts and will not be swayed.

People have lived under oppressive systems before. All the better for those who have hope! The hope of salvation is for those who put their faith in Christ. This world will pass away,not because of Christians who believe it will happen,but because it is what God has ordained,just as it was once destroyed by the flood. The next time will be by fire,to put an end to the corruption once again,and to begin anew,in the place He has gone to prepare for us.(John 14:3)

Don't be discouraged,thinking that everything is all done by Rome! Our corrupt government,and even the churches,may be being controlled by those Powers that Be. But they cannot have your soul,unless you let them

"After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illuminated with his glory. And he cried mightily with a loud voice, saying, 'Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and has become a habitation of demons, a prison for every foul spirit, and a cage for every unclean and hated bird!'" (Revelation 18:1,2).

"And I heard another voice from heaven saying, 'Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities'" (Revelation 18:4,5).






[edit on 3-5-2010 by On the Edge]