All Roads Lead to Rome

Originally posted by serbsta

General P.S. to certain members: Some of the posters are continually stating that Apollo has some connection with Osiris. This is completely untrue. Osiris' Greek equivalent is Dionysus and not Apollo. Apollo was the sol invictus of early Roman-Christian religion but had nothing to do with Osiris, who was the Egyptian god of the afterlife.

The author,Tom Horn,("Apollyon Rising 2012")says this:

Scholars such as Michael Heiser, Ph.D. in Hebrew Bible and Semitic Languages provide details on the study of the Divine Council—the pantheon of divine beings or angels who currently administer the affairs of heaven and earth. Experts in this field of biblical studies typically agree that, beginning at the Tower of Babel, the world and its inhabitants were disinherited by the sovereign God of Israel and placed under the authority of lesser divine beings that became corrupt and disloyal to God in their administration of those nations (Psalm 82). According to the theory, these beings quickly became worshipped on earth as gods following Babel, and because these angels, unlike their human admirers, would continue on earth until the end of time, each ‘spirit’ behind the pagan attributions was known at miscellaneous times in history and to various cultures by different names. This certainly agrees with the biblical definition of idolatry as the worship of fallen angels, and means the characterization of such spirits as “Jupiter,” “Justice,” “Osiris,” and “Isis,” can be correctly understood to be titles ascribed to distinct and individual supernaturalism. The spirit behind Apollo was thus a real personality; Osiris actually lived, and still does. Yet Osiris could have been the same entity known elsewhere as Apollo or Dionysus. Numerous Greek historians, including Plutarch, Herodotus, and Diodorus Siculus, observed Osiris of the Egyptians and Dionysus of the Greeks as the same god, while others found Apollo and Dionysus to be one and the same. Since the designers of the Great Seal of the United States incorporated the appropriate Egyptian symbols and Roman-Greek mottoes into the seal’s scheme to cipher a prophecy about the return of this god—Apollo-Osiris (aka, Nimrod)—it seems reasonable that the occultists also perceived the two gods as representing a singular unseen agency. As a result, readers will benefit from understanding the mythos behind these deities. In the mythological records, trace-nuances, which communicate specific traits having to do with the nature of the entity, can be found. This is helpful in understanding the nature of the ‘god’ that is prophesied to return.

defenderpublishing.blogspot.com...

I'm not trying to debate you. I'm just offering this quote because Tom's work may come up again,so I thought it relevant in keeping with the topic at hand!

(Hard to stay away from this thread!)

reply to post by On the Edge


No that's fine, thanks for the interesting post. Here's my problem with his reasoning.

Originally posted by On the Edge
Yet Osiris could have been the same entity known elsewhere as Apollo or Dionysus. Numerous Greek historians, including Plutarch, Herodotus, and Diodorus Siculus, observed Osiris of the Egyptians and Dionysus of the Greeks as the same god, while others found Apollo and Dionysus to be one and the same.

We know that Dionysus could communicate with both the living and the dead. The symbolic similarities between Dionysus and Osiris in this respect alone are undeniable, but further evidence can be found for their relationship which would be out of the scope of this thread. Most scholars agree and its safe to say, that Dionysus was the Greek equivalent to Osiris. Now the problem with Mr. Horn's analysis is this:

- He states that Osiris and Dionysus are one in the same.
- He then states that Apollo and Dionysus are one in the same.
- Concluding, he states that this must mean that Apollo is the same as Osiris.

The problem lies in the middle. Apollo and Dionysus are not the same. Apollo and Dionysus are both separate and individual sons of Zeus. One being the god of light (etc.) and the other being the god of pleasures, among other things. Apollo was held in much higher regard by the both the Romans and the Greeks in comparison to Dionysus. There is no evidence of them being one in the same. That being said, equating Apollo to Osiris is just as stupefying.

Cheers.

P.S: Proto, I hope you like my new signature.

[edit on 4/5/2010 by serbsta]

reply to post by serbsta


To be fair,he did say "could have" and "others found"...

I think he means it more in this context,as a "demonic trinity".

Around the first century BC, historians began using the term ‘Osiris-Dionysus’ to commonly refer to dying-and-resurrecting deities, often part-human and born of ‘virgins’ that were worshipped in the years before the emergence of Jesus Christ. In the 5th century BC, Herodotus spoke in particular of the syncretic relationship between Osiris and Dionysus, the thirteenth god of the Greeks. By adding Dionysus to what we have already written about Osiris and Apollo, one can imagine a kind of demonic trinity—a single spirit represented in three manifestations, each of which illustrate a different side of the entity’s makeup.

www.newswithviews.com...

I don't even know how to make sense of all this. It takes me a while to absorb this stuff! I sometimes just wind up filing it under "good" or "Bad"!

...When the star systems Pleides and Orion are compared to Henry Wallace’s letter to Nicholas Roerich in which he said, "Dear Guru, I have been thinking of you holding the casket—the sacred most precious casket. And I have thought of the New Country going forward to meet the seven stars under the sign of the three stars," the mystery may unfold that Wallace was referring to the Pleides and Orion specifically and to the deity, and earthly location, they represent. This is an excellent possibility, as these star systems—the seven stars of the Pleides and the three stars of Orion—relate to one another in mythology as well as in the Bible. Further, both star systems represent the god encoded in the Great Seal, the central fascination of Wallace and Roosevelt. The Pleides points to Apollo-Dionysus while the Orion system points to the Soul of Osiris in heaven and, on earth, to his speculative tomb location in Giza. If Wallace was referring to these star systems by his cryptic phrase "going forward to meet the seven stars under the sign of the three stars," Roerich and Wallace may have believed the New Country (America as the New Atlantis) was destined to meet Apollo-Dionysus under the sign of the three stars (on the Giza Plateau), where the most precious casket or ‘coffin’ of Osiris-Apollo-Dionysus held the material remains of the god....

Fascinating stuff though. I do see "the bigger picture",but the specifics can be confusing.

By the way,this does still apply to the thread,America being the new Rome and all,it's all connected,right?

Good way to keep the thread going though! (Like your signature says!)

Originally posted by On the Edge

By adding Dionysus to what we have already written about Osiris and Apollo, one can imagine a kind of demonic trinity—a single spirit represented in three manifestations, each of which illustrate a different side of the entity’s makeup.

But again... why do this? Why relate Apollo with Dionysus and Osiris? It's like me saying that Humphrey Bear, Big Bird and the Cookie Monster make up an axis of evil, one giant trinity of demonic proportions. On what grounds is he making these claims? Nothing personal of course, but I just don't see how hes connecting the dots. As far as I'm aware there is no relationship between Osiris and Apollo.

I suppose this does relate to Rome and this conspiracy as Apollo was an important figure in ancient Rome. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a huge temple built for Apollo really close to the compound where J. Caesar grew up, southern Rome was it? Not that it means anything specifically but Apollo was important.

How did we even get started on Osiris... something about obelisks'... nevermind, Proto will have already gone crazy with how off topic this all is by the time he gets to our posts.

Great thread my friend,


This makes a lot of sense to me but how much of this is documented evidence. i know that is going to be really hard to come by since the vatican closed all roads leading to rome but are there any books or websites out there for me to validate your claims?


Thanks

Originally posted by serbsta

Originally posted by On the Edge

How did we even get started on Osiris... something about obelisks'... nevermind, Proto will have already gone crazy with how off topic this all is by the time he gets to our posts.

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I thought the same thing!(About being off-topic!)

Ok,let's save it for some other time!

I'm too tired to think about it all now anyway.

Good-night! (Sorry,Proto!)

reply to post by serbsta

How did we even get started on Osiris... something about obelisks'... nevermind, Proto will have already gone crazy with how off topic this all is by the time he gets to our posts.

While some of my would be peers and contemporaries over the years have often jovially and affectionately accused me of having lost it, I have always chided them back in much the same manner, though a tad bit more mirthful reminding them I had never found it in the first place.

Here is my problem when it comes to all mythologies, and that is before the advent of Christianity, there was nothing seen as evil about these deities. In fact they were revered in the same was as some people or even most people worship and think of G-d (unnamed in the Hebrew World) Yahweh/Jehovah/Jesus (in the Christian World) and Allah/Mohamed (in the Islamic World).

At a point in time where no one had heard of Yahweh/Jehovah in much of Africa, India, Australia, Europe, North America, South America, Hawaii, the Pacific Islands, Japan, Asia, and Britannia and Jesus hadn’t been born yet most of these deities were simply ways, to ascribe portions of nature, luck and fate, to capricious unseen forces, that were sometimes seen as benevolent, and sometimes seen as benign, and sometimes seen as tasking.

So I do have trouble imagining these mythological deities as being some inherent evil.

One of the problems with the Judean-Christian-Islamic concept, that one god created all life, but only revealed himself to one tribal group of dessert dwellers and tasked them with violently spreading his word across the entire planet, by driving their enemies before them, to enlarge their borders, is that if this one God created everyone and everything, why would he have to task this one colorful group of individuals who did trade slaves, engaged in violent warfare, usury and pirating to violently spread his commandments amongst the other people he is alleged to have created, that he could have just as easily revealed himself too.

Honestly to me, that sounds a bit suspect, circumspect and potentially evil all in its own right, when you start looking at it with the logic you would if you were marketing hamburgers at a fast food chain. Let’s force everyone to eat our burgers, and kill any potential customer that won’t.

A burger salesman would be reviled using this business strategy, yet for some reason, G-d/Yahweh/Jehovah/Jesus/Allah is viewed as a good and wholesome source and a benevolent source of good.

So what we have in the myths when it comes to the God of Abraham is an incredibly inefficient and violent business practice of marketing his name through a tribal group of slave traders, money lenders, mercenaries, and pirates, with a smattering of artisans, craftsman and political advisors thrown in.

Had this God been the end all be all, those taught to believe in him, through various forms of pressure, violence and deception believe him to be, he would have just appeared to everyone, like the Football Teams do on Super Bowl Sunday and said hey it’s me, I haven’t been around for a long, long time, I think about you once in a while, sometimes it makes me smile…just like Todd Rundgren did back in the 70’s before his groupie wife, ran off with Steve Tyler of Aerosmith who then gave us the actress Liv Tyler as a result.

Now here is the good news, for those of you, who might be a bit insecure about this violent spreading of a religion that has left hundreds of millions of people dead, that none of these other mythical Gods seemed to ever task their worshippers to do.

I don’t place that undeniable barbarism and brutality on the alleged God who seems to have inspired it, I place that on human beings, who saw it as another way to sell hamburgers, only in this case they weren’t two all beef patties, onion, pickle lettuce, and special sauce on a sesame seed bun, that they were selling, but power and control and they were looking for, by selling a notion, that everyone’s Master was this God and if you disobeyed what God wanted as they defined it, well humans who believe in him might kill you, or God would make you burn in eternity in damnation and torturous hell fire and brimstone.

Me thinks those worried about the other mythical deities as being some kind of force for evil, might want to take a look at the body count long about now, and examine this incredibly skewered version of God that you have. Because as I have said, there is no chance any God wanted his word spread in that fashion, or his name sullied in such a way, and since it/he/she has never appeared to denounce it or condone it, that would all be on the humans taking part in this illogical, circular logic mindset.

Now the north American Indians practiced a similar style of Monotheism, believing in the Great Spirit or Great Maker, but simply saw it as the source of all life, that didn’t tell them though to take slaves, use taxation, develop harsh and unyielding laws designed to punish even the innocent and uninvolved, and to spread his name through war, so I have to think to a certain extent, even though many of you don’t realize you are doing it, and many more of you in fact might be utterly incapable of realizing you are doing it, because of the circular logic you have been indoctrinated and programmed with, are in fact using these other mythical deities as a form of deflection, in pretending they were, or are some inherent source of evil, as a means to avoid, some of the very dubious and murderous practices of your own notions of God and religion.

If and when, people could in fact see the source of creation and power in the universe as unconditional love, but tempered with wisdom and compassion, that would have no need or desire to do these things that humans have done in Gods name, and not God, then not only would you be a step closer to peace and love and understanding and wisdom and compassion, but the very source of creation and infinity, that people try to quantify and qualify and understand through these rather bizarre and destructive practices in Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

Ascribing frightening evil powers to deities that likely never existed in the first place, without ever really understanding what each deity did and how it was worshipped and what it represented in the first place, all based on the my God can be the only God and the only good God, even if I have to kill you or oppress you to get you to agree to that, well is just flat out wacked, which is why I smile when people affectionately tell me I have lost it, and I reply I have never found it.

The thread isn’t about theology for people who haven’t even objectively studied the history of all religions, and can’t even objectively view their own.

It really is about a conspiracy by HUMANS to abuse the notions of GOD(S) to impose ORDER OUT OF CHAOS even as they manipulate and sometimes increase chaos with warped notions of God(s) in order to maintain a slave based system of commerce (free range slavery at present) utilizing heavy taxation on people’s labor and property, to pay for an ever expanding empire, gained through war and theft, to horde natural resources, to create an artificial scarcity, to lead to the same Chaos, that they then pretend they will order with LAWS that only FAVOR THEM, at everyone else’s detriment.

If people actually studied these other deities in mythology they would know, that with very few exceptions were any of them considered to be evil or bad, except for the occasional figure like Loki in North Mythology, so simply deciding that they were evil, and must be evil, because they weren’t the ‘one true God’ who was forced on everyone in decidedly evil ways, is just tragically flawed thinking in my humble opinion as well as deflection away from one of the root problems, and challenges of what Rome has been doing to conquer the world.

I empathize with those inclined to do this, because they have been indoctrinated into cults of circular logic, that lack objective reasoning and coping skills on purpose, but that doesn’t mean you can’t learn objective reasoning and coping skills, when encouraged to do so.

In summation, if you are going to use the same skill set that was given to you, to entrap you in a scheme to violently impose a one world government on the world, at the expense of your own eventual self-sacrifice and horrible death, to find your way out of this violent and destructive box, well you are as we are witnessing, going to consign yourself to those very things and continue on through purgatory and beyond, inside that rather bleak and abysmal box.

No one is asking you to renounce belief in God or offspring prophets, but to see how it’s not just Rome that has been manipulating these religions, but your own less than objective understanding of them and all other religions and beliefs as well.

So lets stop pretending any God is evil, and lets start realizing that how humans like to interpret God for their own human power, and posterity and wealth often is evil, and then you will be one step closer to understanding the conspiracy, and how you really have been duped into being a part of it.

Thanks!

Serbesta, the above would be the gaps that need to be filled in, which everyone can help to fill out, by walking to the nearest mirror, and having a good long hard honest talk with themselves about themselves and their own actions, and the nature of the planet we live on.

Thanks again!


[edit on 4/5/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by serbsta

Now we could then easily deduce that Gaius Julius was literally considered to be a 'son of God', even if it was just amongst his clan. But if we attribute this god-like title to all the Caesars dating back to antiquity (as they claim they're lineage does), then to whom can we most concretely establish as having initiated this 'son of God' concept which no doubt, if we follow the Caesar/Christ connection, was the fundamental concept which perpetuated the Christian religion? Do you get what I'm asking?

It should be noted Caesar’s fortunes continued to rise even after forcing the Senate to vote him Dictator for Life after first granting him the title for 10 years. The plot against him hatched when a movement amongst some of his supporters started to have the Senate proclaim him a living God.

Republican Rome was against Kings and Tyrants, and making the new Tyrant a God on top of it was the final straw that broke the camel’s back.

However the concept of Pharaohs and Emperors and Kings being descendant of (a) God was not unusual and part of the politics of the ancient world, in establishing one’s divine right to rule. Being seen as a God by the people you ruled is the modern day equivalents of having the IRS send you a stimulus check, and adding another Secret Service Squad to your protective Unit. It made you more popular, it made you more feared, it made you more protected, it validated your autocratic rule.

Being the son of a god in a polytheistic world, which Caesar lived in, is different than being the Son of God in a monotheistic world. If you were the son of Venus, well technically Hercules, the son of Zeus could likely kick your royal and demigod behind.

So yes the Son of a God concept had been around for a while, but the Son of Thee One and Only God concept had yet to be invented.

So that is a radical metamorphism of the Son of a God concept that had been around a long time.

Objective historians are still not sure whether the Hebrew were monotheistic or polytheistic in Caesar’s time, since they did not then and still do not name their Lord and G-d, that they spell G-d and never write or speak the actual name of.

However there is some credible evidence that the various Hebrew Tribes/Sects were split into different Rabbinical Schools of thought that often manifested itself in violence between the Hebrew Sects over what the “One True God” expected of them.

Caesar of course was familiar with the Pharisees as Judea was a Roman Province and a chief source of funding for the expanding Empire in both taxes and loans. So he would have been well aware of the political and religious infighting taking place in their Monotheistic Culture, and seen the potential of divide and conquer, warfare through simple mathematics as a result, and how easy it was to pit people violently against one another over defining Monotheistic Doctrine.

The fact that the one and only but still contested Son of the One God had eerie similarities to Caesar, when the One and Only but still contested Son of the One God briefly showed up in Judea before being violently killed because of Hebrew infighting and how Jesus wanted to interpret Judaism and how the various sects and Pharisees wanted to interpret is pretty much all the proof one needs that defining monotheism is a deadly business.

So I think its an over simplification to say the Son of God Concept was simply a coincidental metamorphism of ‘A Son of God’ concept, because being the Son of the Only God, versus the Son of one of a Dozen Gods was a whole new ballgame, and giving people only one choice in God versus a Dozen or more choices was a whole new ballgame too, that every emperor who ever dealt with Judean politics would have known would have been a fractionalizing and violent affair, through it’s imposition and evolution.

Motive, opportunity, who had the most to benefit, in making God and the State the same, and the leader of the State God’s legal representative and high priest? Rome!

Ceasar and Augustus being the most brilliant and cunning of all Roman's before or since, naturally would have been the one or two that divised the plan after seeing the opportunities and benefit to the Empire and the total conquest of all the world through it, and the divide and conquer warfare it would and could only produce.

Sherlock Holmes would say it's ellementary my dear Watson.

Thanks for the question, and some more background on just how common being a son of a god was.

Here is a good website. Apollo is a Greek god.

philologos.org...

APOLLO (Gr. Apollon), a Greek god, the son of Zeus, the father of the gods, and Leto, daughter of the Titan Coeus, and the twin brother of Artemis, goddess of the moon. The twins were born on the island of Delos, whither their mother had fled to escape the jealous anger of Zeus' wife, Hera. Apollos is one of the most versatile of the Olympian gods. As the god of youth, manly beauty, music, and song, he represents the Greek mind at its best. He was the god of prophecy, with his oracle at Delphi, the protector of flocks and herds, the helper and averter of evil, and also the god of righteous punishment. To his oracles people turned in sickness, and he is represented as the father of Aesculapius, the god of healing. He delighted in the foundation of cities, and as the spiritual leader of colonists he was invoked as Delphinius; as Euryalus, he was god of the broad seas, and of the embarker and disembarker; as Agyleus he was god of the streets and roads; and as Phoebus he was god of the sun. Although the Greek poet Homer represents Apollo and Helios, the sun, as distinct divinities, Apollos' identification as the sun-god is universal among later writers...The attributes of Apollo are the bow and quiver, the cithara and plectrum, the snake, raven, shepherd's crook, tripod, and laurel. In art Apollo is represented more frequently than any other ancient deity...

There is nothing specifically Roman about Apollo.

reply to post by serbsta

Cheers.

P.S: Proto, I hope you like my new signature.

Happy and glad tidings to you on this bright and sunny morning serbsta, thanks for adding some in depth dimensions to some of the other deities involved.

Clearing up the misconceptions regarding all the God(s) is an important aspect of this conspiracy.

Ultimately my contention, is God has to be defined within, as part of one's own intimate experience and relationship with the universe, and just like no two minds think exactly alike, it's not really natural for them to define God alike either, and that is being exploited as people flock into camps and schools of thought regarding how they define God along the lines of how other people define it.

Look at all the different sects in Christianity who are in essence at odds with one another on how to interpret the Bible and God, Chatholics, Angelicans, Lutherans, Protestants, Baptists, Presbaterians, Mormons, Coptics, Adventists, and the list goes on and on.

I personally think God is too personal of a matter to force a blanket interpretation of it, but as we have seen throughout history that inclination to do so, and to do so violently, has led to a lot of things, I believe a God would not want, or relish.

Of course in such a massive and long running conspiracy as Rome, even in a 35 page opening post, it's all mostly broad strokes. the details are important, but getting bogged down in the details, is in fact something that often equates to being a bog and a mire when it comes to seeing the big picture and formulating responses to it. To then create change that leads to a better world, because people are too bogged down and mired in the details, and arguing over the details, while essentially ignoring and doing nothing about the bigger picture.

I still contend that the greatest missing link here, is people understanding how their own individual mindsets and perspectives and concept of God and Government, and Banking, and Warfare, are part of the problem too, since we do all share this world together, and we are in fact all equally responsible for it.

One of the problems with notions of God and Government is both offer an absolution, for willingly negating and absconding your own equitable share of responsibility to vest that responsibility in God and Government, and no, I don't think humanity will ever progress and evolve, until we stop making Gods and Government more responsible than we hold ourselves responsible and accountable for the affairs of the world and it's state.

We are in my humble opinion, ALL part of the problem, and until we ALL see ourselves as an equal part of the problem, I don't see how any of us could then be part of the solution, which of course makes us entirely enslaved to concepts and notions of God and Government that then become merely representative of us, through our abject silence in the face of what they are doing.

So yes, thanks for adding the thread and the invitation in your signature, because ultimately, the entire world is going to need to help us fill in the gaps on this one!

Thanks my friend.

Well I just wanted to interject my own little musical intercession if that's ok. It's strange because I was thinking about this song this morning. It's called Who's Behind The Door? This band was never really that popular by the way but I always liked their stuff and even seen them play one time.

Anyway, while this song was on my mind I decided to look for it on the internet. When I played it, I was shocked to see what I saw. Proto, watch the video when you get a chance and tell me what we are seeing in the opening. The lyrics speak for themselves and are significant as well.



How much more do you really think you know, then a flower does, about who's behind the door?

reply to post by jackflap


The watch us all, they only make sure we don't slip and fall.

How do they get the nerve, animals in reserve...

And the year was 1984 and I saw them play at Magic Mountain in Valencia California outside of Los Angeles.

The warm up act were trained seals and a juggler!

It's an awesome song, though Tell me What you Want from the same self entitled album Zebra really rocks too.

Looking out to the stars, wandering what you are...

Always a good thing to do, in my humble opinon.

Thanks Jackflap.



[edit on 4/5/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Originally posted by poet1b

There is nothing specifically Roman about Apollo.

I have Richard A. Billows book spread out in front of me, titled Julius Caesar: the colossus of Rome. There are some maps right before the preface titled the city of Rome during the Republic. One interesting building I come across is labeled The Temple of Apollo (sometimes referred to as Apollinar). No I don't think there was anything specifically Roman about Apollo, but for whatever reason they certainly worshiped him. Just like they worshiped Hercules, Zeus (in the form of Jupiter), etc.

I know that Apollo was regarded as the patron god of Augustus, but I'm entirely sure on how Julius Caesar actually related to him. Augustus even built a temple for Apollo, not sure if it was the only one.

Again though, I'm not too sure how the Apollo cult spread throughout the early days of the empire, but it certainly grew to be one of the biggest, if not the biggest, since it had devotees from the Julii. Apollo's presence in Rome is undeniable, you can even go as far as Constantine and his portrayal of Sol Invictus, but I think the fact that he retained his Hellenic name speaks a lot.

Maybe Proto can offer some insight on this. There is a relationship between the son of Julius Caesar and the sun god Apollo. How did this effect Constantine and his moves in establishing this 'sun/son of God' motif?

reply to post by serbsta


During the Hellenistic Period, Troy, Sparta and Athens all shared the same common language which we know as Greek. Which it was of the Athenians, Trojans or Spartans that first developed it remains unclear, in part because once Troy fell, it’s history basically only lived on through Aeneas and what he handed down to Romulus, and so on and so forth from there.

The Trojans, Spartans and Athenians all shared the same Gods and like the language of Greek, whether they were developed by just or all three establishing mutual trade and commerce and culture is something that history obscures.

However the top tier illuminists of Rome believe that it was the Trojans who developed the God concept, while Spartan developed militancy, and Athens developed philosophy, with each city preferring to take a somewhat different path to governance and expansion and trade based along those predilections towards one or the other.

Patrician and some Equine Romans spoke Greek fluently, and considered it a more descriptive language than Latin, and one of the many things that set them apart and above the unwashed masses of Plebes and Slaves.

Many diplomatic correspondences were written in Greek, much of the Senate’s business was discussed in Greek, and most of the Roman Philosophers like Marcus Aurelius wrote their transcripts in Greek.

This probably had more to do with their Trojan Roots and Troy sharing that common tongue than it did any particular love for the Greeks, that Rome conquered and colonized, and taxed quite heavily at times.

Why the Romans renamed some Gods like Poseidon into Neptune and left others like Apollo unchanged, probably had something to do with how much importance they placed on that particular God’s influence on Trojan and Roman culture, and prosperity.

For instance, Apollo was the Patron and Chief God of Troy, while Poseidon was the God that in Troy trying to pay homage to, led them being tricked into taking the infamous Trojan Horse into the city, thought to be an offering to Poseidon that the Greeks had commemorated to give them a safe and speedy journey home.

So the Romans might have been a little miffed with Poseidon and decided to rename the Sea God to display that.

My own theory, based on information given to me from someone inside the cabal, is that Troy was the root home of the Greco-Roman Gods, and the Greek language, though of course since Troy was destroyed and raised and it’s culture and history partially obliterated in that fashion, and the remnants of it carefully guarded by the Roman Patricians to this day, running the World Wide Shadow Government, we might never know the details on that.

Augustus was particularly obsessed with Heirapolis which scholars believe was most sacred because of the immense number of Temples in the City, and that Heirapolis might have meant Most Sacred City, but it could have also had something to do with Helios the Trojan-Greco God of the Sun Apollo was often associated with too.

Considering the Sun is probably the most important, or was likely considered the most important aspect to sustaining life by the ancient people, giving the Sun God predominance over all others would have been natural, no sun, nothing grows, everyone wonders around in the dark.

Where as they saw all the elements of nature being interrelated, they tended to believe that because each acted in semi-independent ways, that there was a separate deity for each one, whose job it was to make sure that element functioned full time.

In other words, multi-tasking had not become a popular concept yet!


[edit on 4/5/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by serbsta


I think that a relationship can be found between Horus and Apollo, in that both are the son of God (Osiris, Saturn, Zues).

LIke On the Edge mentioned, it is a demonic trinity, if you will.

As the legend goes, Osiris was killed by his brother Seth and cut into several pieces (14 I believe). His wife Isis collected all of these peices save one, which was his sexual member. She replaced this sexual member with a phallus (Obelisk, penis) and with the mastibatory energy of Ra, inpregnated herself (dome, wome of Isis) with Horus, who is often seen as the resurrecton of Osiris, the God of the underworld. In other words, the actions of Isis were to bring her beloved Osiris back, through the creation of Horus, the son of Osiris, and the resurrection of Osiris from the underworld. Like Jesus was the living embodiment of God on this earth, Horus was akin to the embodiment of Osiris on earth.

Thus Apollo is seen in connection with Horus, who is then seen as the resurrection of Osiris. Just like the Chrisitan Trinity, God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, we have the domonic trinity of Osiris (Father), Horus (son), and the Holy Spirit (Isis, mother, mary).

Whether this is true or not doesn't really matter. What matters is that the current proginators of this myth see as so, as can be seen by their symbology in Washington D.C. and the Vatican, and the cipher of the Great Seal on the dollar bill "Novus Ordo Seclorum." Which is taken from a Sybylline prophecy of the return of Apollo/Saturn, Osiris incarnate. This is the connection they seem to be making.

This can be seen in the symbology of the Dome and the Obelisk, and the Raising Ceremony of the 33rd degree of Scotish Rite Freemasonry:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7abe042574f0.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ff025c776146.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cdac7204df93.jpg[/atsimg]

[edit on 4-5-2010 by HothSnake]

[edit on 4-5-2010 by HothSnake]

[edit on 4-5-2010 by HothSnake]

reply to post by HothSnake

Sibylline oracles
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c. 1616-17 depiction of a Sibyl by Domenichino

* This article is about the Sibylline Oracles. For the books, see Sibylline Books.

The Sibylline Oracles (sometimes called the "pseudo-Sibylline Oracles") are a collection of oracular utterances written in Greek hexameters ascribed to the Sibyls, prophetesses who uttered divine revelations in a frenzied state. Twelve books of Sibylline Oracles survive. These are not considered to be the famous Sibylline Books of Roman history, which have been lost, but a collection of utterances that were composed under various circumstances from the middle of the second century to the fifth century AD.

The pseudo-Sibylline texts are a valuable source for information about Classical mythology and early first millennium Gnostic, Jewish and Christian beliefs. Some apocalyptic passages scattered throughout seem to adumbrate themes of John's Book of Revelation and other Apocalyptic literature. In places the oracles have also undergone extensive editing, re-writing, and redaction, as they came to be exploited in wider circles.

In one instance a passage has a Christian code-phrase in successive first letters on each line (an 'acrostic').

en.wikipedia.org...
www.newadvent.org...

www.sacred-texts.com...





[edit on 103131p://bTuesday2010 by Stormdancer777]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


What if the Sun that they are worshipping isn't the Sun of this solar system, as Albert Pike professed when discussing the tracing table of the 1st degree of freemasonry? He openly stated that initiates would think that the big star on the tracing table was the Sun, when infact it was the dog star Sirius.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/45ffff20ab60.jpg[/atsimg]

[edit on 4-5-2010 by HothSnake]

reply to post by Stormdancer777


It should be noted that the Sybills gave their prophecies while in a highly intoxicated state from inhaling noxious gases seeping up through a fissure in the floor from some form of hot spring underneath the floor of the caves, while chewing copiously on Laurel Leaves.

What the affect of the intoxication was from these fumes and laurel leaves is not something I have ever had a chance to try, so it’s hard to gauge the psychedelic affect, or if it was simply a case of oxygen deprivation or all a show put on to fleece those looking for prophetic answers to questions of hard earned coinage, or stolen coinage, or inherited coinage, or found coinage…

Apollo was considered to be the inspiration of the Sibylls whose oracle was mounted on a tripod.

This is one of the Oracles here.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8e060b03cefa.jpg[/atsimg]

The tripod legs, were associated with Apollo and the Tripod/Triangle is a symbol that was synonymous with Apollo and his ability to shine light through prophecy (Illuminate/Illuminati), because the Tripod/Triangle shape is very similar to the shape of the Egyptian Pyramids, it’s my belief, that this is what caused the Romans to use Egyptian symbols like the Pyramid, as an association with and to Apollo, in addition to signifying their conquest of another ancient and powerful empire, and forcing it into Rome’s submission.

Prophecies as I have mentioned before often become self fulfilling based on one’s level of belief in them and willingness to subconsciously or coconsciously respond and react to suggestion.

If you have ever had some one tell you repetitively that you look tire, and or have a headache, it usually doesn’t take much prompting for someone to then feel tired and develop a headache, even when they had neither, until people started telling them they appeared to be suffering from these things.

The power of suggestion is a powerful thing, and tool for getting others to manifest for you. This is what establishes the trends and attitudes that typically lead to prophecies becoming self fulfilling.

All prophets and prophecies should be viewed with a degree of suspicion in my humble opinion for they have a vested interest in being seen and proven right, and often an agenda is involved in the prophecy.


[edit on 4/5/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

www.knowledge.co.uk...

www.catastrophism.com...*&zoom_page=4&zoom_per_page=10&zoom_and=1&zoom_sort=0

The dark age of Greece

Troy in the Dark Ages
www.varchive.org...

www.varchive.org...

Why no Literary Relics
from Five Centuries?

www.varchive.org...

www.varchive.org...

www.varchive.org...
The Worship of Saturn

I haven't read this in ages, maybe it will help,

Proto,

First of all, wow. This thread is by far the best one I have seen written on ATS thus far. Secondly, I'll have to apologize, because I haven't yet waded through the ocean of posts to this thread, and so if you have already answered these questions, if you could direct me to an approximate location in your thread, I would appreciate it.

First, some commentary:

I have found that you have put forth information that I think many people know within them; that religion as a whole has been a method for promoting not-so-nice acts in the name of a god that yet remains elusive. I personally have felt this from a very young age, but I also found myself (up until I read your post) very proud of the accomplishments of the US in particular in the previous wars: i.e. stopping the slaughter of an entire people (WWII), combating communism (Vietnam), etc. But after reading your thread, I'm starting to question the very fabric of what it means to be American. Could it be that (in the microcosm) that we as Americans are living a lie, (or in the macrocosm) that the entire world has been duped for millenia? I'm having a very hard time wrapping my head around this concept---and this is coming from a person that has had very profound spiritual experiences and has dealt with them for most of his life. This thread is a very big deal to me. I never thought that I may have yet another paradigm shift in my life (given the fact that I'm pretty sure ET exists, and I'm positive that there are some not-so-nice dark energies that exist in our universe), but it seems that you may have forced me to have another one, so I thank you for that.


Now here come my questions: If this is indeed all true, and WWIII is looming (according to your historical interpretation), what can we do to stop it? How can we as normal, everyday people who happen to have a more "enlightened" view of things really stop such a superpower from gaining total control? I'd like to think that some of the world leaders would come to their senses in time to stop it, but I guess if you think about Kennedy (which I am convinced was an inside job), elimination seems to be key in this agenda.

I mean, I'm not going to change my everyday routine, but what if all of this proves to be true? What then?

You bring up some very good questions my friend, and I only hope that something monumental happens to stop all of this from happening. I kinda like it here.

Thank you for the thread.



Peace be with you.

-truthseeker