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All Roads Lead to Rome

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posted on Apr, 28 2010 @ 10:24 PM
reply to post by LightofLiberty

Thanks my friend, I am glad you enjoyed it.

Welcome to Rome!

Note the exit signs, currently there are none, but we are working on it!

posted on Apr, 28 2010 @ 10:37 PM
Sorry if this was addressed earlier in this thread, have been away from my PC all day.

Early on in this thread the Pagans were mentioned, they worshiped nature much like the American Indian and were destroyed if they did not embrace the 'New Religion Christianity" much like the American Indian they were slaughtered. Ninety nine point nine percent of their writings were destroyed from 150 AD through the middle ages, the "New Religion didn't think they should survive, it didn't fit in with their new "Dogma", there was a group of Pagan's called the Gnostic's who were Shaman's much like the American Indian who were adepts, physics and yogi's who practiced remote viewing and clairvoyance, they were very advanced and intelligent, and were also cosmologists who mapped our Galaxy and Solar System which was only proved in the twentieth century by Hubble..

posted on Apr, 28 2010 @ 10:46 PM

Originally posted by cepheusdraco
reply to post by On the Edge

This is why God says for us to "Come out of her,my people!"

I wonder if that is in reference to Rome, or Catholicism or both? Considering the beast will burn the harlot with fire Revelation 17:16 I would have to think it goes for both as I think a lot of Revelations has a metaphorical and more literal meaning.

I think it means to come out from her whole system!

Just look at all the churches worshipping on Sundays today. That is a Catholic invention. (And their 501C3 tax-exempt status definetly came with strings attached!)

The Word of God says:

Daniel 7:25, "And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time."

The word of Rome says:
"The Pope has the power to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ." "The Pope has the authority and often exercised it, to dispense with the command of Christ." -Decretal, de Tranlatic Episcop. Cap. (The Pope can modify divine law.) Ferraris' Ecclesiastical Dictionary.

"Not the Creator of Universe, in Genesis 2:1-3,-but the Catholic Church can claim the honor of having granted man a pause to his work every seven days."-S. C. Mosna, Storia della Domenica, 1969, pp. 366-367.

"The Pope is of great authority and power that he can modify, explain, or interpret even divine laws... The Pope can modify divine law, since his power is not of man, but of God, and he acts as vicegerent of God upon earth." -Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Ribliotheca, "Papa," art. 2, translated.

"This organization proposes in every possible way to aid in preserving Sunday as a civil institution. Our national security requires the active support of all good citizens in the maintenance of our American Sabbath. Sunday laws must be enforced." -Quoted as "principles contained in the Constitution" of the original orginization (then called the American Sabbath Union), cited in The Lord's Day Alliance, Twenty fifth Report (1913), p6.

"Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change (Saturday Sabbath to Sunday) was her act... And the act is a MARK of her ecclesiastical authority in religious things." H.F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons.

"Sunday is our MARK of authority. . .the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact" Catholic Record of London, Ontario Sept 1,1923.

"The authority of the church could therefore not be bound to the authority of the Scriptures, because the Church had changed the Sabbath into Sunday, not by command of Christ, but by its own authority." Canon and Tradition, p. 263

"It was the Catholic church by the authority of Jesus Christ, which has transferred this rest to Sunday in remembrance of the resurrection of our Lord. Therefore the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is an homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the Catholic church." - Mgr, Segur Plain Talk about Protestantism of today page 213

Question - Which is the Sabbath day?
Answer - Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Question - Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
Answer - We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 364), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday." The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50, 3rd ed.

I'm not judging anyone. Most people really have no clue,or wouldn't see the harm in it,I suppose. But "As for me and my house,...!"

posted on Apr, 28 2010 @ 10:49 PM
reply to post by Aquarius1

Some of the Pagans were very advanced, and very peaceful people too, but sadly Rome was imposing the religion of Rome, as a form of Moral Law that they insisted everyone must adhere too.

They wanted everyone to have one perspective, one shared reality, one common concept of the world, as Rome saw it.

Rome views itself as the architecht of the universe, and anything that didn't fit into that narrow world view, was viewed as a threat to being able to control people through monotheism as a form of ultimate law.

If you adhered to the moral law, as put forth by Rome, you could go to heaven forever, if you didn't you would go to hell and be punished forever.

Rome basically got most of the conquered people to police themselves through this concept, and submit through this concept.

It was much cheaper than a massive military and police apparatus to enforce morality as law, and law as morality through simple brute force.

But brute force was used on those who would not adopt it or submit to it, and part of that brute force was convincing those who adopted it and submitted to it, that they were superior in every way, that they were right and clean and pure in God's eyes and civilized, civil being governed by law, in this case Religious moral law, and that because they were superior and civilized they should eliminate those heathens and pagans who weren't civilized in this fashion, for everyone's good, the murdered, and the murderers alike.

A lot of very spirtually oriented, environment oriented, peaceful people, who saw nothing superior, or to their advantage in this new religious law, were systematically murdered, from one end of the globe to the other.

As the joke goes, and it's a sad joke, the history of North America began when the Indians discovered White Christians!

Thanks for posting my friend.

posted on Apr, 28 2010 @ 10:51 PM
well if no history is true, then NO HISTORY IS TRUE, which includes books written on the subject of history which approach the events of the past from a different historical perspective but which still rely on history to make their case. i don't see how you can say both: 1) no history is true, 2) but read this book about history that uses history to prove that no history is true. even the books in such a case are historical in nature. i think this is a case or rewriting history, and i don't think we need to do that from the ground up, yet again. i'm still waiting for proto to modify his position from, no history is true to some history is true.

posted on Apr, 28 2010 @ 10:53 PM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

You are very welcome, I know a great deal about the Gnostic's but that's for another thread, the small fragments that remain of their writings were found in 1947 the year that the dead sea scrolls were found, I find that interesting..

[edit on 28-4-2010 by Aquarius1]

posted on Apr, 28 2010 @ 10:57 PM
nice post... i think all roads do indeed lead to rome i believe in the bible it does mention the church as the great whore ...but i might be wrong about that

its ok just iggy my post i am just trying to get 20 topics so i can post
at least i am being honest

posted on Apr, 28 2010 @ 11:05 PM

Originally posted by Aquarius1
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

You are very welcome, I know a great deal about the Gnostic's but that's for another thread, the small fragments that remain of their writings were found in 1947 the year that the dead sea scrolls were found, I find that interesting..

[edit on 28-4-2010 by Aquarius1]

I think there is a lot of evidence that Gnosticism was influencing the whole Asian sub continent, Middle East, Africa and Rome at the time Christianity was invented.

Augustine of Hippo who was a prominent participant at the 1st conference of Nicea when Christianity was formalized as Religion was a Gnostic and wrote the book City of God that framed the Heaven and Hell Concepts of the Bible.

I think there is a lot of evidence that the religions that were most heavily borrowed from to form Christianity as Rome put it forth where ruthelessly stamped out to keep future generations from being able to tie the various religions together in obvious ways.

Up until Rome imposed Christianity and monotheism people, all people, had choices in religion, from literally hundreds of Gods and sects to choose from.

Too much freedom for the new Rome, you can choose from one!

Do as the one says, and go to heaven and eternal paradise, don't do as the one says and go to hell and suffer for ever.

It's hard to believe that people who feel they have democracy as a political way of life, have no choice, when it comes to the all important spiritual nature of a person, and have been so trained to not want one either.

Thanks my friend.

posted on Apr, 28 2010 @ 11:06 PM

Originally posted by Nephi1337
nice post... i think all roads do indeed lead to rome i believe in the bible it does mention the church as the great whore ...but i might be wrong about that

its ok just iggy my post i am just trying to get 20 topics so i can post
at least i am being honest

Well we will all be looking forward to your first thread.

Welcome to ATS and thanks for sliding on by!

posted on Apr, 28 2010 @ 11:11 PM
Excerpt from 'The Arcadian Cipher'
(c) 2000

' To maintain credibility, especially if the Church was to maintain its strong and growing influence through this universal sacrament (ritual of the Mass), Catholicism had to make itself more attractive than Gnosticism. The path it chose was to include that powerful human emotion, guilt, into the heart of its teachings. By offering followers confession with a modest scale of penance as a way of alleviating guilt, Catholicism allowed sinners to be fully absolved and requalify for admission into Paradise

This guarantee of absolution at any time, regardless of the degree of sin, proved enormously popular, a simple step to the eradication of guilt

It also put the Roman Catholic church in the incredibly powerful position of knowing who was doing what and to whom, opening the path for what might be seen as the most widely spread and successful example of moral blackmail of all time '

later emulated by the 'fraternal' orders and the Bonesmen, etc.

What a dirty, dirty business. But so effective in gaining control, at so little cost

posted on Apr, 28 2010 @ 11:21 PM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Quick question before I post a bit of trivia!

In regards to the Great Schism and the division of the church, what place does the Eastern Orthodox (Greek, Serbian, Russian, etc.) church have in all of this. What, in your opinion, was the reason for the schism? Why have orthodoxies like Greece and Russia been allowed to operate for so long? Was it only the difference in teaching that caused the split? Where does the Eastern church draw its foundation from?

TRIVIA TIME! (relating to the Caesar as Christ theory).

Who said this famous line:
"I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword"

Jesus Christ or Julius Caesar?

Another question here. Why is Jesus depicted as a soldier in this icon? A clearly Roman outfit. This is the icon of Christ as Emperor. Fitting?

posted on Apr, 28 2010 @ 11:26 PM
I don't know if anyone is interested, but here is a link to the history of how the Roman republic was created.

Another problem for Rome was conflict between its aristocrat rulers and commoners. Rome's aristocrats liked warring. They were horsemen, and cavalry was their basic fighting unit. Wars gave them prestige and helped them to maintain their claim of leadership over the other Romans. But a development in the art of war was denying the aristocrats their exclusive right to prestige. The Greeks, Etruscans and now the Romans were using heavily armed infantrymen -- men who were commoners. The increased importance of the common man in combat had encouraged democracy in Athens, and now it was increasing the self-confidence of Rome's commoner-soldiers, who were also small farmers.

Honoring the Roman republic makes sense, just as recognizing how abusive the Catholic church is.

posted on Apr, 28 2010 @ 11:36 PM

Originally posted by undo
yeshua was not enamored with the priest classes, who had historically hidden from the people, important knowledge, and had instead offered them a harsh mistress of dogmatic laws, meant to keep the population at large, honorable, honest and hard working, while the law givers did whatever they wanted with impunity. this much is evident from the way he spoke on the subject.

this alone convinces me that yeshua was on target regarding the abuse of power in the guise of religious doctrine and also the need for compassionate laws, that took into consideration the human condition and the central tenet of love and forgiveness amongst the population members.

as a result, i don't believe the romans modified the words of yeshua, nor do i believe they wrote them. i do believe, however, that they guided the ideas into certain avenues which were not supported by the words of yeshua, and for the express purpose of highjacking the teachings to their own benefit.

although i do reserve some doubts as regards passages in which yeshua appears to contradict himself, these are, however, rare. the more contradictory passages appear to be in the epistles of paul, who was a man of his time, and occassionally seems to espouse ideas that are in contradiction to the teachings of yeshua.

Laws were on the surface compassionate and they met "the central tenet of love and forgiveness amongst the population members". Well the inner circle of Rome were never members of the population. This continues today and we continue to see those that are considered above the law and treated as above the law. Again, divide and conquer. We see some treated as above the law and then, as a show to appease the slaves, are treated as though not above the law. The recent arrest and upcoming extradition of Roman Polanski comes immediately to mind. (Roman, how ironic.) And so after decades Polanski will likely receive some measure of justice or at least the threat of it, justice his apparently healed victim is not seeking. This is for show, "see you slaves, no man is above the law". Hooray for TPTB! Throwing a prisoner to the lions.
or is it
, I'll ask Caesar!
Hail Caesar! There now, we can once again feel all warm and tingly.

Yet, how many bankers and Wall Street execs will see the inside of a courtroom? Take liberties with one young woman and we will hound you to the ends of the world, or Switzerland in the least and for the rest of your life but truthfully only when we need you for the show. But however destroy the lives of millions by bringing down the economy of a nation and we will...... we will..... what the hell will we ever do? Oh yeah! We'll bail your corrupt institutions out so that you will live to screw another day. Then we'll call a few of your low level lackeys in front of Congress for a vicious hand slapping. And we'll use the "S" word and quote your emails for good measure. That'll teach you, you greedy bastards! What's that? Oh, no. You can keep the money, that was the plan. Oops, did I say that out loud?

You see there is still too much wealth and power contained within the middle class. The class they are attempting to eliminate. The only class that threatens Rome. We'll appease the lowest classes with crumbs called entitlements, we'll eventually need them to bury the dead. We'll allow the upper classes to continue milking the middle, we will turn on them later. This is right there in front of us every day, we don't have to dig the evidence from an ancient tomb. In order to forgive the sins of these creeps though we must put our instincts on ice and dig in that desert for answers. Why? Because whatever we ever had of a spine, a spark or a god within us has been tricked into submission from our births.

What made that all possible? Let's get back to compassion, love, forgiveness and all the feel good crap. In my opinion the fictional character, Yeshua, Yesu, Jesus, pick your poison. A man for all seasonings, translated into umpteen languages. Call him what you will, in reality "one size fits all" when it comes to a Roman collar. Well our old pal Yeshua in Matthew 5:44: "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you". And that's how you deal with "abuse of power in the guise of religious doctrine". That's what you do when a priest rapes a child because it is more important to forgive that one priest and save your soul by doing so than it is to nip decades of abuse to thousands in the bud. It's a win, win. You forgive and are forgiven, the victims deal with the scars every day of their lives and the creeps go on working out their own search for God in the nether regions of more victims. It's the marvelous circle jerk of life. It's the blockbuster feel good story of the summer. It wasn't directed by Polanski but I smell a "Roman".

Yeshua taught us how to be victims. Yeshua taught us how to die. Life is full of hard decisions and we have been prevented from making them by guilt. We are all tainted by "original sin" and so not one of us is capable of throwing the first stone. Damn, how did they do that? Oh yeah, Yeshua! Where's my head?

When I was young I was always bemused by the "Prodigal Son". Once again it is forgiveness for the offender. The selfish son goes off and uses every last cent of his inheritance on booze and hookers. But much to his chagrin he runs out of money for booze and hookers. Meanwhile, back on the ranch... The submissive son toils on hoping to one day rule dad's roost (and have endless funding for booze and hookers). But to his dismay the "happy hooker" son comes home having found Yeshua in the bottom of his bottle and the old man (I think it's supposed to be gawd, I'm not an expert) takes him back. And what's the lesson? It's obvious even to me, don't toil in the fields when you can "star and flag" until you run out of cash and the lawd gawd will welcome you back and smite that sorry *ss brother of yours that had nothing better to do than point out your unseemly shortcomings. In a nutshell? Mind your own damn p's a q's while someone's screwing the world like a drunken sailor on shore leave. That's the message. Submit. Bend over, take it and shut the hell up you spineless sinful nothing. Because you have human desires and a conscience that we strapped to you on the way in, you are not permitted to play the game. Guilty!

That's just my opinion but what the hell do I know?

Oh wait a minute, I never addressed Paul!?! Paul is dead. You can find that in another thread.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by Hemisphere]

posted on Apr, 28 2010 @ 11:39 PM
reply to post by serbsta

In my humble opinion, the schisms in the church which there are many is akin to franchising the religion, into regional zones, where it can be more loosely adapted to the ethnic and cultural traditions of the people.

In other words, same religious moral law, that serves a common system of religious moral law, but you have some freedom to wiggle about with it a little to make it more inviting with a local flair, to a local region.

A real schism would have been, hey we are worshipping Baal, or Athena, or Odin.

They are basically taking the same base Roman Doctrine and concepts and adapting them to some cultural differences, but still imposing the same basic system, of Roman Moral Law, just with more autonamy to do it.

These keeps the people from having to rebel against the whole concept, the principle concepts, like saying, no, we want Thor, no we want Apollo, sorry.

It helps to create an illusion that Rome isn't as powerful as it is, and that serves Rome and everyone else trying to govern using Rome's basic religious system and moral laws born from it.

It was Jesus who said he came not to bring peace but a sword.

Jesus as put forth in the Bible really is Julius Caesar, and the more you start looking at Caesar's real life and time and personallity attributes and what he did accomplish and tried to accomplish, the more you will see that was all written into a very similiar charachter in Jesus.

Thanks for asking and posting.

posted on Apr, 28 2010 @ 11:42 PM
reply to post by serbsta

Nestorius ?

and his position that Jesus was a man, like any other -- Mary a mortal woman like any other ?

Nestorius was kicked out and declared a heretic. But he landed on his feet in Egypt, Turkey, etc. -- established the Nestorian Church by around 490 and the eastern orthodox church then took root in Constantinople, etc. It was strong. Wasn't one of the primary disputes between it and Rome about the Trinity ?

posted on Apr, 28 2010 @ 11:51 PM
reply to post by Dock9

what concerns me is the polar opposite of forgiveness. if'n ya know what i mean. people make mistakes of various kinds and for various reasons. our prisons are full of people that actually need a good doctor not a jail cell. we treat people with mental/emotional diseases and disorders as if it their own fault.

this is why judgment can only be truly reserved by a caring and omniscient god, because anything less would not be real justice.

posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 12:07 AM
reply to post by Hemisphere

so not one of us is capable of throwing the first stone.

now this is a good point.

in the context of the setting, the woman was about to be stoned to death for committing adultery with another man. however, the men all in attendance of the stoning, who were about to exercise their superior position in society over the woman, had also committed adultery.

yeshua looked at the situation, recognized the reality of it, and made a very simple (and brilliant) defense for the woman.

posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 12:11 AM

Originally posted by On the Edge

"The NWO are changing the democracy you live in, to Islamic rule - the very opposite of freedom."

This is a recent thread that I think is truthful in so many ways! (It also has a link to my favorite lecturer,Walter Veith!)

This makes the Catholic/Islam connection perfectly. I don't recall seeing this discussed so far.

Another road,Proto!

More prophecy fulfilled,no matter where one wants to say it came from,so everyone should pay attention to this aspect.

Revelation 6:8
Revelation 20:4
...The pale horse,(pale=green,green=color of Islam)...people beheaded for their faith in Christ and not worshipping the beast,...)

I realize interpretations may differ,and always will,but it is an amazing "coincidence"!

Thanks for linking up my thread.

Much appreciated.

I am new here so I have only had a quick glace at this thread but I look forward to really reading it - it looks fabulous!

[edit on 29-4-2010 by Trublue]

posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 12:12 AM
One of the most disgraceful campaigns for which the Roman church is repsonsible is the disempowerment of females

It's been going on so long, most (average men, women, girls, boys) don't even realise it is a campaign -- they simply accept it because that's the way it is and always was

Yet if you attempt to address it and point at the roots, you're accused of being a 'man-hater' or 'women's libber'

If the Church intends to 'confess' before it bites the dust officially (in order to reinvent itself and rise again like a freaking phoenix) surely it could do no better as genuine confession than to hang it's foul head and speak very clearly over those Papal microphones -- and say --
' People of the world, we wish to confess before God, our supposed employer, that we have been running a campaign against women for close to 2000 years

... Until we jumped the act and took over the God and Jesus industry and associated franchises, women enjoyed an equal, even exalted position, in theology, ministry, politics, commerce and all other areas. Why, even here in Rome, women were full members of society, owned landed, debated, ran businesses and were at least equal to the menfolk

... Similarly in Jesus' time and before. Women were head sisters of religous orders and occupied positions equal to that of bishops of today

It was that self-aggrandising God-jumper, Paul, with his fanatical hatred of women (particularly educated women) who systematically demonised and vilified women. It was the Holy Church which encouraged males to regard females as lowly, second-hand citizens and which arranged for this to be so in fact/reality

Yes, it was we of the Holy Roman Church who stripped women of their power, influence, entitlements and of respect and dignity

Yet here we are, a bunch of old men in frocks, poncing around in pretty colours and jewels. And having devoted 2000 years to the dehumanising of 50% of the human race, here we stand --- accused of chasing around after little boys

It is we, the Roman church, which applied the term 'harlots' to females. In this, we echo the ancient Greeks who were also rabid misogynists who preached fear and hatred of women and the 'foul vapours' which allegedly emanated from their terrifying organs of reproduction, the likes of which mankind was unable to replicate or replace (until very recently) and the ancient jews, who likewise jealously guarded the power from their women

But we created the Roman church and coming as we did at the time from such a recent history of male/female equality, we nevertheless chose to plunge men and women into unholy combat and we have continued to oppress females right up to the present

Here we stand --- the faux-women of Rome, exposed in our frocks and frippery --- to confess to being the architects of 2000 years of oppression of females, the disempowerment of females -- even as the 'authorities' who advised that females be physically beaten by their spouse on weekly basis

We, the Religious Thugs of Rome, confess to engineering and orchestrating the 2000 year, bloody, destructive Battle of the Sexes -- denial of women's basic rights -- demonisation and defamation of women and the false promotion of males which in turn has provided (until very recently) males with manifestly unjust economic and other advantage over women

posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 12:17 AM
When a random selection of 30-40 people are made in to a group and allowed (or forced) to interact and live together, a certain formation spontaneously appears. A leader emerges. If two emerge, there will be division. There will be infighting until one comes out as leader. If leader is the brain of this group, then he teams up with muscle, if he is the muscle, teams up with the brain. Once leader is established, the brain and the muscle speak for the group, act on their behalf and start setting the rules for the group, which, ultimately becomes a top-to-bottom group identity. Dissenters leave the group if they can, or, if they can't, sit there and shut up in search of another type of leader that might favor them until there is an opening for a chance of a take over. And where a Leader uses muscle to control the group, and brain to find ever smarter, ever disingenuous and self-serving ways to stay as the leader. But only when an opposing camp is established, the group finally reaches it's equilibrium. An omnipresent duality, which gets put aside only when the group comes under threat from an external source.

In the same group, the satirist joker, the idiot joker, the artist, the unethical, the thief, the teacher, the student, the glutton, the spiritual, the intellectual, the poet, the panderer, in short, a good spread of society slowly take their places. I have witnessed and intensely observed this phenomenon since my childhood in the many classes I attended at many schools, social circles, small towns, tiny villages I have belonged or passed through, my parents' card game group, religious congregations of all kinds i have had a chance to closely observe, at companies I have worked for, team sports I have played, during the mandatory military service I have had to do, in large apartment buildings I have lived in, secret societies, social clubs, political groups, even gangs… Simply everywhere….. Regardless of its size or significance, for a group to function as a whole it creates a predictable formation.

The pattern of the human flock's formation seems to be, for most part, identical for structure wherever you look. Rome is merely an interpolation of this pattern in to a highly complex structure. It's complexity comes from its continuity over the past two millennia allowing the transfer of knowledge without falling in to the hands of any invaders. And if I had to narrow down the reasons for this to a single most important one, I'd say it is simply geography. It can't be a draw of the luck that the last two standing empires of the age of the empires, Rome and China ended up being on the opposite ends of the land mass called Eurasia. I don't mean to say China is still one of those two. It finally fell long ago… Rome stands victorious and spoils certainly go to the winner. Until further notice, we can say that Rome has the planet by the balls at the moment. And, if you pardon my language, it is squeezing hard right now.

The zinger is, if Rome is irrevocably victorious and the whole world is now Rome, there is no longer any reason for Rome to treat it's American slaves any better than it's Chinese slaves, is there? If they desire to start new projects in any part of the world or finance the wars against the natives of another land, there is no reason why they should not take 28 trillion dollars of THEIR money from THEIR North American territories and spend it as it suits their needs. Isn't that what Governments do?

And, if they desire less people on THEIR planet and a more passive, uniform and controlled army of slaves with suitable skills, they will weed out not nations, but types of people. Whoever is seen as unnecessary or harmful to the new world they are trying to construct… My best guess is that this is most of us.

All roads don't lead to Rome any longer. All roads ARE in Rome already…

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