Arizona Governor Signs Controversial Immigration Enforcement Bill

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


My apologies. Didn't come across your other posts.

that I'm gleeful about "kicking out all the illegals".

I haven't taken it as that. I, like many other Americans, feel this issue has to be addressed, but I believe this bill goes too far by targeting a certain race.

Many people think it is simple as showing an ID. But if you have Hispanics, whites, and blacks standing at a certain spot, why should only Hispanics have to show their ID because of reasonable suspicion. Especially if those Hispanics are Americans.

Thanks for the answer.

Originally posted by jam321
I believe this bill goes too far by targeting a certain race.

The bill itself doesn't target a race. But many cops will.

Many people think it is simple as showing an ID. But if you have Hispanics, whites, and blacks standing at a certain spot, why should only Hispanics have to show their ID because of reasonable suspicion.

They shouldn't be the only ones to show ID. That's why my proposals target ANYONE who commits a crime, asks for federal assistance, public education or non-emergency medical treatment.

I am always being stopped by cops as I walk along the roadside in Arizona just so they can ask me if I have any weed on me.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/959a8d5188fa.gif[/atsimg]

Why is that NOT RACIST, but stopping a Mexican to ask for his papers IS RACIST?

They stop me because I look like a white boy on dope. They stop the Mexican because he looks like an illegal alien.

Interesting people bringing up the 4th amendment. If you really want to bring it up and argue that point, since the fact is most illegals are of spanish decent and the problem is ILLEGAL immigration the color of your skin could arguably be question for probable cause. If we had a problem with illegal immigrants from Canada I would expect everybody with white skin would get questioned.

Yea it sucks, but the problem is illegal immigration. The problem at its core is based on ethnicity. It's a fact either you can accept it or continue to bury your head in the sand about it, but the truth still remains.

And upon finding out the knowledge that in some states you are lawfully required to carry ID I don't really see any legal grounds to challenge this bill upon. The constitution grants the government the power to protect us against invasion and illegal immigration is invasion.

Sure people will challenge the bill, but the bill will be ruled constitutional and there isn't a damn thing anybody will be able to do about it.

Another stubborn fact is that the bill is based off of federal law, if the Feds were enforcing this bill how many people would have a problem with it then? And no if a bunch of people are loitering outside and they are all different ethnicity I'm pretty sure the cops will card every single person loitering.

www.infowars.com...

This statement disturbs me greatly

"On Friday Obama called the bill “misguided” and instructed the Justice Department to find ways to force Arizona to back down."

Now were going to see how Federal Law trumps State Law - whether it does or not. Now we will see how this Federal Government will keep the States "in Line"

"The regional governors now have direct control over their territories. Fear will keep the local systems in line." Sound familiar?

reply to post by groingrinder


You're lying.

You live in A.J.?

The police don't stop you and ask for weed. They ask for meth.

Quit lying. I SEE EVVVVERRRYTHINNNGGG!!!!!!!!!



As for the racial profiling? Give it up man. They'll only give you a headache. People don't seem to realize that it goes on everyday in every city in the U.S.

It's not discrimination. It's a fact of life that isn't going away.




Peace

Originally posted by WWJFKD
This statement disturbs me greatly

"On Friday Obama called the bill “misguided” and instructed the Justice Department to find ways to force Arizona to back down."

That's infowar's wording. You might want to look into a bit further to see what he actually said. He asked the DoJ to Review the law, which is a smart thing to do. There are possible constitutional issues here. The DoJ needs to get involved to SEE whether this law is a problem or not.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
They shouldn't be the only ones to show ID. ... ANYONE who commits a crime, asks for federal assistance, public education or non-emergency medical treatment.

Strongly agree with this.

I'm not sure why this is a problem.

If this bill was taken by almost every state in the nation that would have become a historical achievement in favor of the voters, tax payers and citizens of this nation, but sadly this not what is been going on here.

Political game for political gain amid the coming midterm elections.

The nation and the state of Arizona legal tax payer, voters and citizens has been played for votes.

As usual the voters will be the losers on this one. . .

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


True enough. Sorry just woke up. Where does the Federal Government get off challenging a State law enacted because of the Federal Governments unwillingness to do their duty.

If they want to repeal the immigration law then go for it - God forbid - but don't keep a law on the books and then ignore it as if it doesn't exist. The Constitution is not a menu in which the Federal Governments picks and chooses what it want to enforce. If its the law its the law. If they are unwilling or unable to perform their sworn duties to uphold said Constitution then step down.

and just sometimes
polls reflect TRUE public opinion

www.cnn.com

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/219a478bc339.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by boondock-saint

and just sometimes
polls reflect TRUE public opinion

And I am willing to bet that those sometimes are when polls go along with your side of the issue.

www.foxnews.com...

You Decide: Will Immigration Law Help or Harm?

Help. The state had to do something, especially in the wake of recent border violence and the murder of rancher Bob Krentz by an illegal immigrant last month.

95%

Harm. The bill will promote racial profiling, hurt relations with Mexico and cost the state in possible class-action lawsuits.

3%

Not sure, but an immigration law of this magnitude should probably involve President Obama and Capitol Hill.

1%

53,732 respondents

The people have spoken and are speaking overwhelming support to this new measure - Other polling info is welcome.

[edit on 24-4-2010 by WWJFKD]

There is NOTHING UNCONSTITUTIONAL or WRONG with this recently passed Bill. In fact it is VERY BENEFICIAL to ALL of those who are LEGAL, law-abiding citizens of who have put in the BLOOD, SWEAT, and TEARS to make America great.

I find it VERY STRANGE that most of the people making the "unconstitutional claims", never raised their voices in the past in support constitutional issues!! Where were they so many times in the past that they could have spoken up? CLEARLY to me, it seems that these individuals are making a big stink about this because they, OR someone they KNOW, may be of ILLEGAL status, in other words a CRIMINAL! I hope the next law is that anyone with knowledge of an illegal whom doesn't REPORT them, they too be punished by the law. Not reporting a CRIMINAL is just as BAD as being one of them

GOOD JOB ARIZONA, THIS IS A BIG WIN FOR THE HARD-WORKING, LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS OF THE STATE.

Originally posted by Captain_Sense
There is NOTHING UNCONSTITUTIONAL or WRONG with this recently passed Bill. In fact it is VERY BENEFICIAL to ALL of those who are LEGAL, law-abiding citizens of who have put in the BLOOD, SWEAT, and TEARS to make America great.

I find it VERY STRANGE that most of the people making the "unconstitutional claims", never raised their voices in the past in support constitutional issues!! Where were they so many times in the past that they could have spoken up? CLEARLY to me, it seems that these individuals are making a big stink about this because they, OR someone they KNOW, may be of ILLEGAL status, in other words a CRIMINAL! I hope the next law is that anyone with knowledge of an illegal whom doesn't REPORT them, they too be punished by the law. Not reporting a CRIMINAL is just as BAD as being one of them

GOOD JOB ARIZONA, THIS IS A BIG WIN FOR THE HARD-WORKING, LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS OF THE STATE.

www.law.cornell.edu...

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 1 > § 4

§ 4. Misprision of felony

Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony cognizable by a court of the United States, conceals and does not as soon as possible make known the same to some judge or other person in civil or military authority under the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

I believe this will cover that. Interestingly enough this was just recently invoked by Arlen Spectre. It is a law that has been in play since 1909.

ahhhh
I just think some of those members who come on here
and derate this legislation may be the very ones
who wind up getting a free ticket back to their
home country.

I mean if this law meant I would get kicked
out, then by all means I'd share my concern
as well.

Originally posted by Captain_Sense


GOOD JOB ARIZONA, THIS IS A BIG WIN FOR THE HARD-WORKING, LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS OF THE STATE.

You forgot who else wins, the businesses and tax cheats who illegally hire these illegals and support and nurture an illegal friendly America, you know, the wal Mart you shop at, the little restaurant you eat at, your golf course, the place you buy your suits, man all those employers win big time as well.

With all the focus on the villains, when the ins comes to deport half your staff, you can feign shock, pay a piddly fine that in no way matches the amount of money you would have paid American workers, and go do it all again until the next time you get caught. In the mean time, the humans who just got deported are now worse off than before, some will die trying to come back, some will be separated from family, the ripples keep spreading. Some of these illegals will be separated from their kids, who attend the same classes as your child, thus possibly bringing the dysfunction of a ripped family unit to your front door in some future manner. More ripples.

I think there should be reserved harshest punishment for those who consistently hire illegals. Supporters of this type of legislation need to brace for higher costs, because in order to succeed we have to replace each illegal worker with a higher paid and benefited legal worker, and that will have to come from the pockets of all of us. I am more than willing to pay more for my products if it means true reform.





If there are not serious deterrents to hiring illegals, laws like this do nothing but inflame racial hatred and violence towards mexicans, because we all know who this bill is targeting.

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
Supporters of this type of legislation need to brace for higher costs, because in order to succeed we have to replace each illegal worker with a higher paid and benefited legal worker, and that will have to come from the pockets of all of us. I am more than willing to pay more for my products if it means true reform.

You mean we might have to put out of work Americans in these jobs that only others were willing to do - for shame. We might actually have positive growth in new jobs for Americans - don't expect me to get upset about that one.

Changed wording from Mexicans to others - you pay a decent wage and an American will do it.

[edit on 24-4-2010 by WWJFKD]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
They shouldn't be the only ones to show ID. That's why my proposals target ANYONE who commits a crime, asks for federal assistance, public education or non-emergency medical treatment.

BH! BH! Can I be your lady-in-waiting? And #4...I'm thinking our troops in Germany...maybe we forget we still have them there?...anyway, all our troops there didn't prevent 9-11, with the hijackers getting radicalized there and all...

but, I derail...back to bill...so my son and daughter-in-law are planning a vacation to Arizona this summer...I got to thinking, if they're pulled over for, let's say a non-working tail light, how could the LEO NOT be obligated now to ask HER for proof of citizenship since she "looks like" she could possibly be from Mexico? Also, would my nephew's wife NOT be asked for her papers, since she speaks Russian fluently but English haltingly but she's white skinned....would the LEO automatically ASSUME she's here legally?

Actually, this type of profiling has been going on already for years on the CA/Mex border. I have American friends who "look like" they're from Mexico and get detained for further questioning when returning into CA, and that's by Fed agents with training, Let the witch hunt begin in Arizona! Send them score cards, they're gonna need them.

One more thing...I knew a woman who took advantage of govt job training to get off public assistance in the Clinton years. She learned to be a hotel maid. At first it was great, but soon she was replaced by women willing to work for less. Where was the public outrage then? Oh, yeah, distracted by cultural wedge issues and impeachment.

Originally posted by desert
And #4...I'm thinking our troops in Germany...maybe we forget we still have them there?...

Those were some of the ones I thought about.

how could the LEO NOT be obligated now to ask HER for proof of citizenship since she "looks like" she could possibly be from Mexico?

I actually don't think many LEOs will be profiling on JUST one aspect of a person. Your DIL is obviously traveling - with someone who DOES (I'm assuming) appear to be a citizen. A check of his drivers license and registration will be in order... An out-of-state couple traveling across the country. No reason to suspect that either of them are in AZ illegally.

On the other hand, if a LEO drives by a field of Hispanic people picking crops with a few children running around... where previously, illegal immigrants have been known to be working, then he might have actual reasonable suspicion.

A group of dark-skinned men waiting in front of a building that's known by the community to be the hang-out for illegal immigrants looking for work will also be a target. There are many of these places. The locals know that if they need some yard work, they can just drive there in their truck and pick up 3-4 of them and have their yard done by the end of the weekend. Cheap.

Four Hispanic kids on the street exchanging something in a part of town known to have a drug problem... They might be a target, too.

But in each of these scenarios, there are several reasons to believe that the people might be illegal immigrants. In your scenario, there's really none.

Also, would my nephew's wife NOT be asked for her papers, since she speaks Russian fluently but English haltingly but she's white skinned....would the LEO automatically ASSUME she's here legally?

I certainly wouldn't. I'm not advocating rounding up people based on profiling. You get that, right?

[edit on 4/24/2010 by Benevolent Heretic]