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Arizona Governor Signs Controversial Immigration Enforcement Bill

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posted on Apr, 23 2010 @ 08:59 PM
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Originally posted by WWJFKD




Why do we have a law against illegal immigration and then refuse to enforce it? What, because it is so prevalent that it cant be stopped


I've lived in the SW all my life and here is the hard cold economic reality concerning illegal labor. Small business and a lot of large corps. simply couldn't exist without cheap illegal labor. Contractors, hotel chains, restaurants, agriculture, almost all service industries use illegals for crappy jobs and pay them crappy wages to maximize profits. In a country that worships money; do you think that anything is going to change? The bankruptcy courts would be flooded if illegals were prevented from working and that in turn would unemploy thousands of natives and legal folks. Not to mention the thousands of retail business that cater to illegal workers and also not to mention the sales taxes that illegals pay every time they buy a gallon of gas or a 6 pack of beer.

I'm not saying it is right but it is standard operating procedure here and I really don't see any drastic changes being made.

Gov. Jan made a political statement; that's all it was. If she was really serious; she would have hired state cops and positioned them on the border to stop illegals from coming in; but that costs money.











[edit on 23-4-2010 by whaaa]




posted on Apr, 23 2010 @ 09:36 PM
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From Ruben Navarrette, Jr.'s, letter to John McCain


You failed to mention that the reason illegal immigration has hit Arizona so hard is because so many Arizonans hire illegal immigrants. Cracking down on employers would not go over well with the Phoenix business community, but it's how we tell who is serious about controlling illegal immigration and who isn't.

Even as the son of a retired cop who has no qualms about locking up people who break the law, I'm tired of seeing powerful members of Congress -- or, for that matter, the Obama administration, which actually has quotas for deportations -- pick on those who have no power and no voice.

That's a coward's play. Suggest jail time for the folks who write checks for your fundraisers while, back home, they're having their food cooked, laundry done, lawns cut and kids raised by illegal immigrants, and then we'll talk.

source

Reagan's "low intensity conflicts" in Central America started the flow northward; Clinton's NAFTA helped swell corporate maquiladoras already massing on the border, driving more people towards El Norte. Industry, such as meat packing businesses, welcomed illegal immigrants.

Arizona businesses/citizens, and other states, have depended on illegal labor for years. What this bill does is undermine the efforts of local LEOs and sets citizen against citizen, rather than citizens against corporatism/the corporate control over citizens.

On the lighter side, LEOs can now employ the latest Bilbray Shoe Recognition System.



posted on Apr, 23 2010 @ 09:40 PM
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reply to post by desert
 


I do agree that something needs to be done about the people/companies that hire them, and something needs to be done about securing the border.

It needs to be a multi-fronted attack, or it will fail.



posted on Apr, 23 2010 @ 09:50 PM
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reply to post by WWJFKD
 


Love it! Great Job Governor!

When current laws that are in the books and aren't being enforced and haven't been for sooo long!, it is Time for a New Game plan.



posted on Apr, 23 2010 @ 11:38 PM
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reply to post by Lemon.Fresh
 


Yes.

The idea of "porous borders" works for business, where there is a steady flow of workers.


"Capitalism's importation of foreign labor cheaper than that of native-born workers," Hillquit said, "threatens the native-born with dangerous competition and usually provides a pool of unconscious strikebreakers. ... The bosses have no borders when they want to exploit labor.

A socialist newsweekly published in the interests of working people.

Their solution, organize all workers, but, alas, TPTB have made "unions" a dirty word.

And advocates of porous borders have no need for worker "proof of citizenship"/ID, hence play up fringe talk for the "mark of the beast" using end-timers and for paranoia of "big government" from the likes of the John Birch Society.

Advocates of porous borders have no need for border enforcement (either land or sea/air), hence the 30 year long stand down of the Border Patrol by under funding. Costs money, and even in 2005 there were "budget considerations".

IMO pragmatism means illegal aliens should be offered a path to citizenship,but I also say no more citizenship automatically if born on US soil, stricter enforcement of visas and such paperwork (as in the past), funding the need for greatly increased border patrol, and no more letting businesses off the hook when employing illegal workers. And no more talk of "work Americans won't do".

Then we wouldn't have to worry about the shoes we wear.



posted on Apr, 23 2010 @ 11:46 PM
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reply to post by WWJFKD
 


I agree with your premise that something may be going on that actually fits the federal governments plans for something going on in the background that we the American public are not immediately aware of. With such a large group of protesters arriving, as you indicated, it could lead to Martial Law which the Obama regime is hoping will manifest itself so that they can be the heroes with the solution to the crisis.

Racial divisiveness and civil unrest in Arizona appears to be the basis for something more. As such, I think your comments are right on. Let's hope we are both wrong, but something tells me that's not going to happen.

Thanks for the posting.



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 12:07 AM
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Originally posted by Light of Night
reply to post by whaaa
 

From what I have read the only thing close to being unconstitutional in the bill is the fact legal immigrants have to carry around Green Card or Visa's. Other than that, its all completely legitimate. Illegal immigration is a crime set forth by the constitution.

Doesn't matter how you feel on the subject, but coming into the country through illegal channels is in fact a crime.

Greetings Light of Night, don't believe I have read you before, but I like your style!

Even that isn't un-Constitutional. Do we not, as Americans, produce ID to any police officer who demands to see it? Here in Ohio it is illegal not to have ID on your person if you are in a vehicle. I had a friend who was taken in a fingerprinted to make sure he was who he said he was, and he is white as snow. Is that profiling? It's Constitutional law, people, like Light of Night and many others are trying to tell you all. Come here legal, or don't come here at all. IMHO, we should either enslave them all, and make them work the fields, or drive them back at gunpoint.

A few months ago I was at my back doctor's office, and there were two Middle Eastern men there, with whom I started a conversation. these men had a very eloquent way of speaking English, which both learned before coming here, and they knew more about American history than I do, and I was born here. they were Iraqis. Now if they can do it legal, why can't the Mexicans do it legal? By the way, I asked them what would happen if someone entered their country illegally. They told me the person would be thrown in prison, and maybe shot. Did they make this up? Perhaps, but the point is, the illegals do not belong here, and they should all leave, before blood is shed.

New Ohio Law Allows Cops to Request ID



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 12:39 AM
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We will quite likely see some very disturbing developments in Arizona and perhaps beyond as a result of this legislation. whereas yesterday we had blue skies and everyone enjoyed sunny day tomorrow is now unsure and could end in bloodshed (I will premise why I believe this).

It almost sounds like I don't support this latest bold move by the local Arizona Government, nothing could be further from the truth. Some may say we should have just left well enough alone and now look at the mess we have to contend with - how irresponsible.

Arizona's Governor didn't see a choice in the matter. This issue of the porous border that the Government refused to secure was killing the state. Financially and Physically killing the state who coffers were now empty whose Law enforcement had been targeted by rogue elements in Mexico's drug trade and whose populace was taking casualties. I believe the Government acted very responsibly given the severity of the situation. If we had done initially what the Constitution demanded of us in the first place we simply would have paid more for our labor and never been the wiser because you do not miss what you never had.

Alas this was not the case and now once again we find ourselves hoping that cooler heads prevail - we have been very lucky so far and some day our luck is gonna run out. There is so much bad blood involved in this thing, Mexico's drug trade, Little old ladies being deported, adjusting to the price of a more expensive labor force and the gang violence that could erupt at any moment. If you have had any experience with groups like MS-13 and Los Zetas - in particular MS-13 then you have some idea just how bad this thing could go, This group would not be encouraging violence in a protest - they would be bringing it. And one now could easily imagine how regional martial law may become a necessity and how will the local fringe groups - dare I say Militias - react to Federal Government intervention to restore order? Or perhaps we will dodge yet another bullet and cooler heads will prevail.

Point is none of this need ever have been if we had only adhered to the law as enumerated to the Federal Government to secure the border. This is resultant on their unwillingness to do their job. Any blood shed here is on their hands - damn them





[edit on 24-4-2010 by WWJFKD]



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 12:43 AM
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Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
reply to post by desert
 


something needs to be done about securing the border.

It needs to be a multi-fronted attack, or it will fail.


What are gonna do? build a wall?

"What about when they circumvent them?"

You a time waster man - seriously



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 12:49 AM
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Reply to post by Janky Red
 


And once again, the point I was making went right over your head. Instead of answering the question I proposed to you, you insult me and call me a racist. If you would have not been so shallow and intent on trying to prove racism, you would have seen this.

Build the damn wall. But you need something in place to take care of those who circumvent the hardware.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 01:05 AM
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www.azcentral.com...#/News/Protesters+%26+Supporters/40280768001/35150280001/79920339001


Protesters & Supporters

passionate protests on both sides of the controversial bill.

Very large protest and rally expected on Sunday. These same High School kids will be out of school.



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 01:12 AM
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reply to post by autowrench
 


Hello! Thanks for the kind words.

To get to your question I believe it is up to the state as far as having to carry your ID at all times with you. Federally would be a question for SCOTUS.

But you are correct it's the constitution. Either you enforce all of it or enforce none of it. Even the parts we don't like. Just the way it is.

Fortunately though, it actually works and is a brilliantly designed piece of legislation when followed. So I say we keep following it or rather go back to following it.



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 07:21 AM
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OMG.

Arizona just showed our nation they are stupid idiots in the gubment there.

Actually that is harsh, they are rather clever.

They must all be in bed with (translate, money) with Big Business.

Who else would throw enough money at an idea? Who benefits from this Bill? (lets play follow the money)?

Big Business, the REAL CROOKS,

Arizona just passed a law to harass human beings for no reason, and that is NOT the spirit of this country in 2010 (if it is it should not be).

The real Bill should have been anyone who hires illegals gets shut down and fined out the wazoo. Actually fined out of business.

What a shame this thread has so many supporters of this action, this foul shameful action. What a bunch of corporate sympathizers here.


Lets make a bill focusing on illegal aliens when the true reason we have a problem is the EMPLOYERS OF ILLEGALS.



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 08:35 AM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


It's not just big business or business in general that hires illegals; it's also individuals hiring maids, babysitters and nannys, gardeners, pool boys, handymen, security, dog walkers, cooks, companions for old people, nurses, etc...

Also the state and city also hires illegals. Forged green cards are readily available.

Everyone in the southwest benefits in some way from cheap labor provided by illegals. Right or wrong, it has transcended from being a legal matter to a cultural reality.

I have seen the enemy and it is us because of sloth and willingness to abuse those living a hand to mouth existence.



[edit on 24-4-2010 by whaaa]



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 08:37 AM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


Let's go after people with cars. After all, if those people did not have cars, there would be no auto thefts.



I do agree that the hiring parties need to he punished, but it is silly to blame the crime on them, and say it is no fault of the criminal.

[edit on 4/24/2010 by Lemon.Fresh]



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 08:43 AM
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While I agree that those employing illegals should be the main focus of any bill trying to do what the Federal Govt has refused to do under Bush and now Obama, all the emotive posters here need to let some reason into their heads.

Illegal immigrants are just that - illegal. Nothing including the sophistry of talking about rights blah blah blah can get away from the fact that all the world's countries have laws governing who can or can't enter, who can or can't work etc etc. If the situation was reversed, Mexicans would be doing anything they could to stop the Yankees entering illegally.

Nobody kindnapped Mexicans and forced them to come and work in our country. They choose to do that. They want a better life without going through all that darned paperwork and selection criteria. In other words they're gate crashers.

Their employers are just as bad. But nobody is forcing Mexicans to forge ID's, STEAL social security numbers and commit ID theft in addition to the other crimes some of them commit, like causing accidents and cutting and running. Or the matter of murders that a minority of them have committed.

And again - why does our President stink to the heavens on this one? This is the guy who's doing his best to make life worse and worse for the Americans who are not milking the system, not getting the huge tax breaks, worked hard but are seeing nothing except for more burdens and threats to their liberties with Obamacare etc etc

But it's okay for illegals to do their thing. It's just another thing that's gonna see this guy out of the White House next election screaming racism did it but the reality is in plain sight and it's based on truth, not smears.



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 08:45 AM
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Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh




I do agree that the hiring parties need to he punished, but it is silly to blame the crime on them, and say it is no fault of the criminal.



Criminals? Perhaps but the large majority of illegals are just people like you or I, trying to feed their families and do an honest days work for an honest days pay.

And the people that hire them are trying to save money.

Who are the criminals, really?

It's a much more complicated situation than just addressing the letter of the law.

[edit on 24-4-2010 by whaaa]



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 08:51 AM
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The only way to effectively impliment this bill , is to allow racial profiling to occur, systematicaly , rather than on the quiet. This law ,quite apart from being a stealthy way to commit an act of rascism , is an outright fascist friendly document, basicaly REQUIRING the cops who enforce these things, to racialy profile each suspect. Simply put, you couldnt be stopped for this offence unless the arresting officer has racialy profiled you . Surely theres something very wrong here?



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 09:31 AM
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Originally posted by whaaa

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh




I do agree that the hiring parties need to he punished, but it is silly to blame the crime on them, and say it is no fault of the criminal.



Criminals? Perhaps but the large majority of illegals are just people like you or I, trying to feed their families and do an honest days work for an honest days pay.

And the people that hire them are trying to save money.

Who are the criminals, really?

It's a much more complicated situation than just addressing the letter of the law.

[edit on 24-4-2010 by whaaa]


Not really. A criminal is a criminal. Drop the PC crap. There are laws for a reason. In this case, whether you go by the letter of the law or the spirit of the law, the outcome is the same.

A person who robs a store of food to feed his family will still go to prison.

Making judgments on emotion is unreliable at best, and most times disastrous.

I do agree that the hiring parties need to be punished as well, though.



posted on Apr, 24 2010 @ 09:52 AM
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Originally posted by WWJFKD
We will quite likely see some very disturbing developments in Arizona and perhaps beyond as a result of this legislation.


I've got to agree.

And though it probably disappoints my liberal friends here, I think this legislation makes sense. Yes, some people are going to get caught in the crossfire. Yes, some profiling will take place. Yes, many illegal immigrants just want to feed their families. That's all terrible, but this issue cannot remain un-addressed, as the federal government is doing. Many illegal immigrants are doing much more against the law than just being here, trying to work and feed their families. One stole $6000 from me and my husband, while we were trying to help him! (That event did not change the way I feel about this issue. I have always felt this way.)

Just as other groups cannot be accurately lumped together and generalized, illegal immigrants are of every stripe. Some are here to survive, some are here to take advantage.

If this country allows illegal immigrants to disobey the immigration laws without punishment, then what about the US citizen who steals to try to feed his family? Will they let him go unpunished as well? No. When the law is broken, people pay the consequences. Illegal immigrants have broken our law when they crossed the border. Why should we permit them to break our laws when we are not permitted to do so?

I do have a great deal of sympathy for those who are just trying to survive. But I don't think having an open border is the answer to that particular problem.



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