Israeli troops fire flares over southern Lebanon

Originally posted by john124
reply to post by TheCoffinman

 

www.timesonline.co.uk...

In a message, sent earlier this month, Israel made it clear that it now regards Hezbollah as a division of the Syrian army and that reprisals against Syria will be fast and devastating.

“We’ll return Syria to the Stone Age by crippling its power stations, ports, fuel storage and every bit of strategic infrastructure if Hezbollah dare to launch ballistic missiles against us,” said an Israeli minister, who who was speaking off-the-record, last week.

Devastating = nuclear... if Syria respond to this with their own SCUDS with chemical warheads & US air support isn't there to shoot them down.

[edit on 17-4-2010 by john124]

So is this why Russia docked their warship in Syria last week....sort of a not so subtle statement to Israel not to do anything rash which might upset Syria's powerful allies?

Maybe Israel is just dangling the "toy mouse" in front of the Lebanese in hopes the "cat" will pounce and give them justification in starting an all out attack?

Originally posted by TheCoffinman
i dont see that either... why would u nuke a country pre-emptively when nobody has ever done that before... syria doesnt even have nukes... itd be a PR hell..

Exactly, they would automatically lose all support from the U.S and other countries, which would then lead to an even more rallied response from the middle east AGAINST israel.

It doesn't seem to me that Israel cares what anybody else thinks of them. Their rhetoric lately has been even more abrasive than usual. However, they must see that the odds are stacking against them. I just wonder if that Turkish aid mission to Gaza has gotten under way yet. That could very well complicate the situation even more.

But wouldn't flying over Lebanese airspace and dropping flares on their land not be considered an act of aggression under the Geneva convention ?

And therefore an act of war ?

reply to post by TheCoffinman

why would u nuke a country pre-emptively

Obviously not preemptively.... and hopefully not even as a response to a chemical attack by Syria after Israel destroys most of their infrastructure in response to hezbollah attacking them with ballistic missiles.

It might also depend which way the wind was blowing before making that final decision, unless they have secret mini-nukes with a low radioactive output.

Although whichever way the wind is blowing it would still be disasterous.

It would all depend on whether the Samson option is considered an "option".

Originally posted by ken10
But wouldn't flying over Lebanese airspace and dropping flares on their land not be considered an act of aggression under the Geneva convention ?

And therefore an act of war ?

Well no not necessarily, flares are often use for defensive measures.

Helicopters in war zones now use a system called HIDAS (Helicopter Integrated Defensive Aids Suite) - it's pretty neat actually, it's tied into the various defensive and counter measure systems, flares for example... As soon as the system detects a threat, a heat signature from an RPG, a radar lock from SAM's stuff like that it instantly calls out the details and also deploys the countermeasure at precisely the optimum time.

It makes sense that jets could have this sort of system also.

So the flares could well have been deployed either manually or automatically in response to a missile lock........ Or (and this is the important bit!!) Israel can simply say that's what happened and the world will just have to accept that. Weather or not it was naked intimidation or whatever - Israel is good at using this tactic, remember the white phosphorus shells? Illegal to use as a weapon, so they used them "to provide smoke screens" - which is technically a legal use for them.

I dont think Israel would nuke anyone without first using conventional weapons. Im sure though, that in the event of them losing any conflict with anyone, they would "press the button" as their last trump card.

Respects

www.jpost.com...

In addition to Scuds, Israel is reportedly concerned by the possible transfer of advanced surface-to-air missile systems, particularly the SA-8, which would impair the air force’s ability to fly over Lebanon. While the systems may not yet have been transferred, there have been reports of Hizbullah fighters training on them in Syria.

Starting a war due to an enemy’s military buildup is against Israel’s long-standing policy of not being the side to start wars in the Middle East. Nevertheless, following the Second Lebanon War, a debate erupted in the General Staff over the need to stop Hizbullah from rebuilding its infrastructure and obtaining advanced weaponry. Most generals were against attacking the convoy of trucks crossing almost daily from Syria to Lebanon. A few were in favor and believed that a military buildup is a casus belli.

That is why it came as no surprise when Israel decided to bomb a specific convoy of weapons crossing Syria into Lebanon, but at the last minute changed its mind. What exactly changed is not known, although considering the current crisis with the Obama administration, it is possible that an American veto prevented an IDF strike. In any event, it would be difficult for Israel to explain such an action considering that Hizbullah has not attacked since the end of the 2006 war.

The SA-8 air to surface missiles could pose a problem for Israel's jets.

en.wikipedia.org...

The 9K33 OSA is a highly mobile, low-altitude, short-range tactical surface-to-air missile system. "9K33" is its GRAU designation. Its NATO reporting name is SA-8 Gecko.

The SA-8 was the first mobile air defence missile system incorporating its own engagement radars on a single vehicle.

Primary armament 6 9M33, 9M33M1, 9M33M2 or 9M33M3 missiles

Syria - 60

Originally posted by Now_Then
Israel is the one who is really gonna want to take the airspace advantage and keep it. It would be very poor foresight to begin an attack and then have the momentum stall if and when this ash cloud rolls in.

Yes but surely the Syrians would know that. Maybe they might try to capitalise on the fact Israel will have other factors effecting their air force's ability to deploy to engage Israel's ground forces.

Sounds like something Sun Tzu would do.

Quite frankly if the dust is as corrosive to Jet engines as they say it would be kinda silly not to provoke a conflict Opportunities like this don't come along very often.

Think of the huge logistical toll even limit air strikes could take on the maintenance of the aircraft.

reply to post by belial259


hmm so your saying it would behoove hezbollah to attack israel when the volcanic ash came there way because it would hinder the israeli air force's capability to engage hezbollah ground forces effectively.... a most interesting thought...

reply to post by john124


You don't need nukes to devastate infrastructure.

Carpet bombing and cruise missiles work just fine.

Ask the Iraqis.

[edit on 17/4/10 by MikeboydUS]

reply to post by MikeboydUS


There's 400 conventional bunker busters in diego garcia waiting to be transferred to Israel.

That would do the job nicely!

I wouldn't be surprised if Pakistan would launched a nuclear-tipped IRBM, Shaheen 2, toward Tel Aviv, if one of her fellow Muslim country was nuked by Israel. There's no ambiguity about Pakistan's nuclear arsenal, since she successfully tested a nuclear bomb in 1998.

A self-fullfilling prophecy?

"The world Zionist movement should not be neglectful of the dangers of Pakistan to it. And Pakistan now should be its first target, for this ideological State is a threat to our existence. And Pakistan, the whole of it, hates the Jews and loves the Arabs. This lover of the Arabs is more dangerous to us than the Arabs themselves. For that matter, it is most essential for the world Zionism that it should now take immediate steps against Pakistan. Whereas the inhabitants of the Indian peninsula are Hindus whose hearts have been full of hatred towards Muslims, therefore, India is the most important base for us to work there from against Pakistan. It is essential that we exploit this base and strike and crush Pakistanis, enemies of Jews and Zionism, by all disguised and secret plans."

David Ben Gurion, the first Israeli Prime Minister, as printed in the Jewish Chronicle,9 August 1967

reply to post by john124


That might be enough Syria or Lebanon. Its not enough for Iran. Who knows maybe we planned ahead and knew the outcome of this all along. We have a bad habit of doing that. Been doing it since we invaded Mexico in the 1840s.

Could the prophecy found in Isaiah 17:1 getting ready to be fulfilled?

The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.

Who knows? I will be watching closely.

The only reason to fire flares besides actually illuminating targets to attack is, to make them think they are illuminating targets to attack. In other words, it's just a scare tactic, saber rattling. Or, maybe they are trying to provoke a reponse which would give them an excuse to retaliate with real force.

GUYS.... Israel AND Lebanon fire rockets into each other's country all the time.... its like knocking on the door and checking to see if they are still there. Seriously. last time I was in Israel I was at an army base and while I was there Lebanon fired missiles into the country. I evacuated the base along with the other "tourists" and we watched as a few small mushroom clouds formed on the border. The commander told us, "nothing to worry about."

reply to post by MikeboydUS


Well they better hurry up and get them there because last i heard Jet Traffic over the sky's of Europe were closing quickly,,ALL jet traffic,,,

Haaretz flash updates:

06:09 Israel imposes closure on West Bank Palestinians until Tuesday night (Army Radio)
06:06 Israel seals off West Bank until Tuesday night (Army Radio)

Sounds like it's confirming the jpost source stating something similar.

Does Israel ever give reasons for these kinds of actions??

Sounds suspiciously as though they're preventing an uprising whilst they bomb Lebanon (and Syria), and the job will be done no earlier than next Tuesday..... or something like that...