It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Why is there no satisfactory answer forthcoming about Bohemian Grove??

page: 1
7
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 01:53 PM
link   
We have all seen Alex Jones' Bohemian Grove footage...we have all heard about the theories regarding the human sacrifices to Moloch...we have all read Cathy O'Brien's (and many others') stories of suffering ritual abuse at the hands of these power Elite that meet there every year.

Yet, nowhere on the internet is an answer forthcoming that explains what really goes on there and WHY exactly they would participate in millennia-old Babylonian rituals, complete with giant stone owls, etc.

Quite the contrary, there are actually people who think it is all a harmless joke, which says a lot about how well these people have indeed conditioned us into becoming unthinking, docile sheep.

So, on this thread I would like to stimulate the readers to come up with some answers -proper answers!- about the goings on at Bohemian Grove. If you ask me, it is blatantly obvious that there is a direct link to the Babylonian Mystery cults and not just in the way of tradition. There must be a direct, familial link, surely! These bloodlines that comprise the Elite must be direct descendants of powerful families from Babylon (and beyond) and things like Jones' infiltration of the Grove are just signs of the time. Meaning that they are manifestations of the Aquarian Age, which is the time of making the unknown "known"; the time of Revealing!

So it was meant to be for Jones to get that footage, in order for us to learn the truth. But what exactly is that truth is my question...




posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 02:19 PM
link   
reply to post by TheNewAeon2012
 


Other than that we risk being labeled "unthinking, docile sheep," what reason do we have to dismiss the harmless ritual explanation? Many organizations have rituals, and magic isn't real, so what is there to get worked up about? Why should you or I or anyone else care if rich, powerful people hang out with other rich, powerful people and do wierd rituals with them? Mystical rituals are something that many people involve themselves with(the church, in fact all organized religion, college fraternities, ect.). If it's just wierd and harmless, why worry about it?

O'Briens stories, like almost all stories of satanic ritual abuse, are suspect. There is no evidence, the stories are inconsistent, and it is experimentally verifiable that hypnotic regression is not a reliable way to access memories. She recovered her "memories" under hypnosis. We know that hypnosis can produce false memories. So, what we need is some evidence. But, of course, there is none.

Without appealing to the outrageous claims of a small number of people taken at face value with no evidence, what do you, personally, imagine is going on here? Black magic? It's pretty clear how rich people get rich and how powerful get powerful, there's no need to involve mysticism which is easily refutable by science. There are not powerful, dark forces at work in the Bohemian Grove. It's just a club.



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 02:25 PM
link   
reply to post by TheNewAeon2012
 


For me, I dont think there will ever be a satisfactory answer or explanation.

Is it possible that its just a harmless "boys club" where the most powerful men in the world assemble to have "fun"? I suppose it is, but the fact that you have conservative and democratic politicians alike both admitting they've been, not to mention CEO's and bankers, it seems a little more to this than just a "college fraternity for the power elite."

The rituals they do there seem to be so elaborate and serious, how could anyone make the case that its all in good fun?

I guess its just one of those things that we will never fully comprehend or understand unless we are invited to become a member.

Its not surprising that rich, powerful people are into weird things. Its been going on for thousands of years. Throughout history, there have always been secret sex clubs, secret societies, strange fetishes that go hand and hand with the elitists.

Actually, it makes me kind of jealous. I wish I was so bored and satisfied with life I had to have wild orgies to get excited... I have a hard enough time just paying my bills!



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 02:39 PM
link   

Originally posted by WhiteDevil013
reply to post by TheNewAeon2012
 

The rituals they do there seem to be so elaborate and serious, how could anyone make the case that its all in good fun?


But, what reason do we have to think that elaborate and serious rituals actually do anything?

Human beings have been performing mystical rituals for many thousands of years in order to do everything from ensuring a good harvest to cursing their enemies. With science, though, we've found out that the mystical worldview is wrong; the world doesn't work that way. It won't rain if we do a rain dance, and the volcano won't stay inactive because you throw a virgin into it. There are real reasons for why things happen and they are material, physical reasons which are accessible by science and rationality. There's a reason that scientific theories make so many accurate predictions and we can make so much technology based on those theories. The reason is that science accurately describes the world. Mysticism isn't need to explain anything. Everything has a material explanation.

If they do some mystical song and dance, it's not accomplishing anything. If mysticism worked, the world wouldn't look the way it does. The tribal societies that have no science and fully embrace mysticism are powerless and have a life expectancy of what, 40?. The developed countries who have technology and embrace science are the societies that rule the world, we cure disease and send people to the moon. Reality is material and not mystical. Magic rituals, however elaborate and serious, have no paranormal influence.



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 03:08 PM
link   
David Icke talks about the symbolism of Bohemian Grove in his books.
According to his book Guide to the Global Conspiracy the owl is an ancient symbol associated with the mother goddess in which the reptilians worship. The mother goddess is known as Ninti whom the Sumerian Tablets say produced the first modern human with the chief scientist Enki.
He goes on to say these symbolisms mean different things to different levels of initiation. The owl could also represent the god Molech which is another name for Nimrod/Baal with whom the ancients sacrificed their children in fire rituals.

Icke also talks about how most people who attend the Grove have no idea what they are apart of (I guess they think of it as an honor to atttend with the "big shots"). Supposedly the upper escelon partake in the real sacrificing in another private location somewhere on the grounds.



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 03:16 PM
link   
The Grove is an Annex of the Bohemian Club in San Francisco. It was founded by the Press in the 1860’s because of what they cited as a lack of culture and entertainment, in the Gold Rush days of San Francisco.

Of course as Gold was discovered, the Oligarch families weren’t too far behind, looking to play their favorite game of separating fools from their money and to get richer, and richer.

Over the years it’s grown to be arguably the most Prestigious Gentlemen’s Club in the nation, and perhaps the world.

The rustic retreat and campsites at the Grove play host annually to some of the most powerful men in the world for up to a month, every August. Amongst many other things it’s rumored that the President of the United States and Department Heads are decided upon by these super wealthy and influential men.

Some say the rituals that take place are just the bored and over entertained wealthy elites participating in silly fun, and frivolity. Others see something far more sinister, and whisper of Black Magic Rituals, and mock human sacrifices that might not be mock at all.

I don’t think there is much to that speculation, and it’s really just people who find it humorous and bizarre and something to do, to give the people who hear about it, but can’t attend something to speculate about.

I do though believe they control the Political landscape of the United States and possibly beyond during the retreat.

It is also an ideal place for the richest and most powerful men in the world to conspire together with no prying eyes or press.

For the most part, the people who attend are the type who guard their secrets well and carry them to the grave. Much of their power, prestige and wealth depend upon it.

Great thread, star and flag!



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 06:47 PM
link   
reply to post by OnceReturned
 


Oncereturned you really believe magic isn't real?? I wont' say anything to that because I'm a polite kind of guy...



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 07:17 PM
link   
Oh yeah...nothing to see here, move along. They would really like that, it would make thier plan much easier.

At the grove, deep in the woods, our world leaders attend occult rituals and engage in bizarre behavior reportedly including cross-dressing and homosexuality, and no women are allowed in the grove.

The most well known of these ceremonies is the “Cremation of Care”. ...during the Cremation of Care members conduct a mock sacrifice of a human child to a 40 foot statue of an owl by burning the body. The owl statue is Moloch, a god or king. The word Moloch itself is associated with fire and sacrifice.




Star & Flag!



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 07:19 PM
link   
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


624 Taylor St.





"Weaving spiders, come not here;
Hence, you long legged spinners, hence!
Beetles black approach not near;
Worm nor snail, do no offense." - William Shakespeare

Started by newsmen, musicians and actors, then taken over by local businessmen who had the funds to require more land and facilities at the Grove.

The 'Ceremony of Care' is a pagan ritual to rid oneself of all your worldly cares in order to relax and enjoy yourself. Some say it's how the world leaders can do evil and not be effected by their conscience.

The 'Weaving Spiders' is supposed to mean that no plans or schemes or business deals were to be made inside the club. But with so many high position leaders attending it's hard to believe they don't. And remember that was a slogan from before the club was taken over by the businessmen.



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 07:28 PM
link   
reply to post by TheNewAeon2012
 


Wait so you really believe that magic is real? So you're open to the idea that the world powers are in league with actual ancient deities and spirits?

Do they get their foreign policy advice from Elves perhaps? Do mischievous pixies frolic in the grove with them?

Maybe magic is an easy excuse for a five year old to buy but if you think you're going to convince rational sane adults that these old Elite scumbags are using black magic to rule the world you're going to be labeled crazy (a rightful diagnosis if you ask me)...

The reason the Elite use these rituals and use the occult is to make themselves feel powerful and it also serves to make people afraid. Seeing them use occult symbolism and ritual makes the superstitious quake in their boots and the more afraid and superstitious a populace the easier they are to sway and control. Like a hypnotist using the power of suggestion to convince you of his power they use their ancient symbols and traditions to make you easier to control.

[edit on 16-4-2010 by Titen-Sxull]

[edit on 16-4-2010 by Titen-Sxull]



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 07:35 PM
link   
reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 


You sir just contradicted yourself. You cant have it both, they have the power, they use it. But they dont use the power to make Foreign Policy?


Maybe you like living with your confused thought, but it makes you look...well...crazy.

Using power = creating Foreign Policy.



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 07:38 PM
link   
reply to post by burntheships
 


Where did I contradict myself? The mention of Elves was making a joke. They don't have actual magical powers but they can use psychology, superstition and fear to sway the masses, that's not magic.



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 07:47 PM
link   

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
The reason the Elite use these rituals and use the occult is to make themselves feel powerful and it also serves to make people afraid. Seeing them use occult symbolism and ritual makes the superstitious quake in their boots and the more afraid and superstitious a populace the easier they are to sway and control. Like a hypnotist using the power of suggestion to convince you of his power they use their ancient symbols and traditions to make you easier to control.


Then why do the elites try to keep what they do so secret?

The only reason we know about it is people not involved have exposed it, otherwise we wouldn't even know it existed.

So how does a secret club have any power of suggestion over those that have no idea it exists?

All they need is the media to control you, that and the private ownership of required resources, not secret societies and clubs.

These clubs are basically the rich and powerful cooperating and organizing, that's why they are powerful and stay that way, and that's why they keep us divided. You know the old saying divided we fall...



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 07:54 PM
link   
reply to post by ANOK
 


The grove was likely revealed on purpose. There was already a well established belief in the conspiracy theory community that the occult was involved. The Free Masons, the Illuminati and all their supposed occult rituals were already "exposed" by the time the Grove was revealed. Many Christian NWO believers think TPTB are in league with Satan himself. This is just the kind of superstitious fear mongering they like to engage in.

For all we know the Cremation of Care was only carried out once as a hoax to be revealed by Jones in order to scare people.

Now it is possible that they do this stuff by themselves to give themselves that sense of power, self-righteousness, etc but I doubt any of them believe in the stuff.

I just find it far more likely that the whole thing is a show, a wizard of oz "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" type thing so that people who look into TPTB get superstitious crazy sounding information (I once saw a conspiracy video that said they were in league with a spirit called Yota from which the name Yoda was derived in Star Wars and that spirit was real). The only thing these people worship is themselves.



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 08:02 PM
link   

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
For all we know the Cremation of Care was only carried out once as a hoax to be revealed by Jones in order to scare people.


Nah to those of us who live in the area we know this is not just an internet thing and Jones is not the first to reveal it. The Grove ceremony has been going on for years, there would be no point in revealing it at this time, and anyway it isn't doing what you seem to think it would is it? So revealing there own little get together to the public would be pointless. You have to realise the elite are not stupid, everything they do is very calculated and not always obvious as to the point.

All you have is a handful of new age hippie types doing their own 'ceremony' as some kind of 'protest'. It isn't scaring the population into anything. If they wanted to do that they would do something like fly planes into buildings and blame it on 'terrorists'...



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 08:09 PM
link   
reply to post by ANOK
 


Like I said they might be carrying it on to give themselves a sense of power. Its interesting to know that there are people who knew it was going on long before Jones released the video. Apparently its not so secret after all.



everything they do is very calculated and not always obvious as to the point.


I disagree, I think they pump out tons and tons of misinformation and I'm not sure how much of it calculated. I think its more quantity that quality, the more conflicting information they can put out the better and it doesn't have to be intelligent or calculated because many people will believe ANYTHING they are told or hear through the rumor mill. The more superstition they surround themselves with the harder it is for people to see them for what they truly are, just people like us. They create this false aura of power and surround themselves with a shield of misinformation and superstition.

And while us conspiracy theorists are debating about magic, sun god symbolism and the Masons they're making off with all the loot



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 08:20 PM
link   

Originally posted by TheNewAeon2012
reply to post by OnceReturned
 

Oncereturned you really believe magic isn't real?? I wont' say anything to that because I'm a polite kind of guy...


It's true, I really don't believe in magic. I'm not sure what politeness has to do with it. If there really is a case to be made for existence of magic - and I don't believe there is - then it should not be founded on personal attacks or belligerent insistance. If your beliefs about magic are rational you should be able to justify them in a coherent, logical, reasonable way. If it's politeness that's holding you back, I would think that the only reason could be that you don't have a very strong case. Any rational argument can be expressed politely, especially if you're only talking about what is true. I promise, if you stick to truth and reason I won't be offended. Please, say what you will.

Of course I don' believe in magic. Science accurately describes everything that happens in the world and magic is not a part of the picture. Scientific theory makes correct predictions and is the basis for useful technology. Mystical or magical belief systems produce no accurate predictions, no testable theories, and no useful ideas. Mysticism and magic were around for a hundred thousand years and nothing changed, no progress was made and nothing about the world was understood better over time. Stories were just replaced with other stories. When science came along and got it right, everything changed right away; the scientific worldview is characterized by constant progress and verification and successful predictions and useful technology. Shamans tried to heal people with magic for a hundred thousand years. Modern medicine has nearly doubled the life expectancy in the modern world in a few hundred years. Replacing mysticism with science and magic with technology gets real results. The reason is that the scientific worldview is correct and the mystical/magical one is not. Mysticial belief systems are characterized by absolute failure and lack of progress. Science is characterized by undeniable success, progress, and constant testing and verification.



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 09:36 PM
link   
People who have an almost irrational devotion to science are nearly as bad as people who have an almost irrational devotion to well...anything actually.

To be frank though, I doubt Bohemian Groves as something to fear. I see it as a misdirection. It's unbelievable to think that something so secretive and potentially world altering if revealed and understood fully could be infiltrated so easily, multiple times, and especially by Alex Jones?

I don't trust Jones one bet. At best he's a shill and a money maker, at worst he's a misinformation agent.

I think they just go to it for #s and giggles, to keep up the illusion that it's something to keep an eye on, so your attention isn't on what they don't want you to see.



posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 03:31 AM
link   
reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 


I have gone down this path before, with other ppl...and won't again. I will not debate nor argue. You have your version of reality, I have mine. If we could meet face to face I could convince you, in 5 minutes, that Magick is very real indeed, just by demonstrating some things to you. On a forum it's not possible...

The Elite have done their job very well because they control the information (Education, Religion, Mass Media), which is something I assumed u would know, being a member of ATS. So it's near impossible to get the real truth about the supernatural, hence most people can't fathom that it could be real. The Elite like this arrangement very, very much. I know this makes 100% sense, but I also know u will still not agree...

That's okay, we have free will



posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 03:49 AM
link   
reply to post by OnceReturned
 


The post underneath yours answered it better than i ever could have.

But, anyway, the point is that it's not possible to "prove" something on a forum, whether science, magick, whatever. We'd need to be face to face. And when I say magic do not not confuse it with mysticism. I mean Magick! It is the highest science of them all, which is why the Illuminati will never tell us anything about it...

Surely this makes sense, right?



new topics

top topics



 
7
<<   2 >>

log in

join