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The Utter Insanity of Pro-Choice

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posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 06:30 PM
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I see some familiar faces from that other large abortion thread from a while back where I asked the same question as the OP. I never really got much of a clear answer back then. I wish you luck in finding a satisfactory answer.

In order to make any sense of it all, I had to remind myself of my Orwell: "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."




posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 06:30 PM
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reply to post by Monts
 


I understand what you are saying. It is unfair to think that a man is just some walking sperm bank with no feelings that wants to stick his willy in anything that moves. There should be something a distraught man should be able to do in a case like the one you suggest. Ultimately the man will have no say so in whether or not the woman can have an abortion. That's just a fact. But it's heartless to say "sorry, champ, maybe next baby," and then expect the guy to just move on.



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by DEMONcrats





dont give me that bullcrap about condoms fail(only a few percentage fail rate)....you also have birth control you can use in conjunction with condoms.




I am sure you do not realize this fact I am about to share with you, so here goes.

I completely agree with this portion of your post.

I will never give you any sort of Bull Crap about condoms failing, because condoms are for penises, of which I have none.

And I have many forms of birth control to CHOOSE from as a WOMAN, including the morning after pill and abortion.

So we agree 100 percent on this portion of your post.

Isnt that wonderful?



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 06:37 PM
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Originally posted by angrymomma
reply to post by Monts
 


I understand what you are saying. It is unfair to think that a man is just some walking sperm bank with no feelings that wants to stick his willy in anything that moves. There should be something a distraught man should be able to do in a case like the one you suggest. Ultimately the man will have no say so in whether or not the woman can have an abortion. That's just a fact. But it's heartless to say "sorry, champ, maybe next baby," and then expect the guy to just move on.




I realize you did not bring up the original point, Monts did. I wanted to present a different view.

Why are these hypothetical men having sex with women they did not realize would abort?

If a man wants to avoid these heartbreaking situations, maybe he should stay celibate, and actually get to know the women he chooses to slepp with, as in knowing their stance on pregnancy, and such.

It is ludicrous to argue, all of a sudden she wanted to abort my baby! Well, didnt you know her personality, and her stance on topics? Or did you both hook up wearing beer goggles one Saturday night at the bar?

Men need to take responsibility over who receives the precious gift of their seed if they want to control whether the seed germinates or not.

These arguments make men sound like animals who have little to no control over their sex organs. That is an awful way to portray men.



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 06:37 PM
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Originally posted by ganjoa

Originally posted by DEMONcrats

so it is absolutely not a part of your body...what so ever.


I agree with your statement of fact - a fetus is a parasite.



so that makes the entire argument of 'its my body i can do what i want' bullcrap BUNK.


An opinion based on an observation of a fact not evidenced by your prior statement.


BUT in my opinion...the moment a life is created inside you....YOU NO LONGER HAVE A CHOICE. because your BODY is no longer YOURS.


Well stated and properly identified as your opinion. Illogical.
See Descartes. Thanks for posting.

gj


i agree...lets go find your kids and tell them since they want a xbox game they are a parasite..or new clothes and food.....they are a parasite they drain resources.

if your going to debate me...bring SOME substance...dont just call what i say 'illogical' tell me WHY its illogical....i know you can do it.



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 06:41 PM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater

Originally posted by DEMONcrats





dont give me that bullcrap about condoms fail(only a few percentage fail rate)....you also have birth control you can use in conjunction with condoms.




I am sure you do not realize this fact I am about to share with you, so here goes.

I completely agree with this portion of your post.

I will never give you any sort of Bull Crap about condoms failing, because condoms are for penises, of which I have none.

And I have many forms of birth control to CHOOSE from as a WOMAN, including the morning after pill and abortion.

So we agree 100 percent on this portion of your post.

Isnt that wonderful?


yes it is wonderful that you think abortion is birth control.....you are EXACTLY the type of woman im talking about. abortion is not birth control...man you must be the reborn margarate sanger...take the morning after pill all you want...but it does not surprise me you would think abortion is a form of birth control....disgusting.



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 06:54 PM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


That is just the thing, that's not how ALL of these things happen.

I have a friend who married a woman. They were married for two years and the woman said "let's start a family!" My friend was super excited and so was his wife...until she started getting sick.

This was a very good woman, I am in no way demonizing her. Some women think they are ready and are not and I completely understand that.

When the nausea and the like started kicking in she decided she didn't want to do it anymore, she was scared. So, one day when my friend went to work and while he was at work she went to her scheduled appointment and got an abortion.

She didn't tell my friend any of this until a couple weeks later. He was devastated to say the least. They separated in the end.

My point is, you can think you know someone but they can surprise you.

BUT I DO agree with you when a casual one night stand occurs. If pregnancy happens and the father doesn't want the baby gone and crap goes to court, he doesn't have one leg to stand on. I can't find the stupid clip but it's from Legally Blonde.

In the scene they are talking about a trial where a sperm donor decided he wanted to a child that was created using his...uh...donation. At first they say the man has a right but then in the end, the main character butts in and uses the defense that he did not check up on any other recipients of his donations. What was the question...damn it. Oh! "Why now? Why this sperm?"

Though from a movie, I find this situation to be a good comparison. So on that point I agree with you.

Wow...that was a long winded response. Sorry bout that O.o.



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 06:57 PM
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Originally posted by DEMONcrats

Originally posted by hotbakedtater

Originally posted by DEMONcrats
yes it is wonderful that you think abortion is birth control.....you are EXACTLY the type of woman im talking about. abortion is not birth control...man you must be the reborn margarate sanger...take the morning after pill all you want...but it does not surprise me you would think abortion is a form of birth control....disgusting.


Technically, abortion is birth control.

How dare you demonize a woman exercising her rights. Your response to her is what is disgusting.



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 07:07 PM
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Originally posted by angrymomma

Originally posted by DEMONcrats

Originally posted by hotbakedtater

Originally posted by DEMONcrats
yes it is wonderful that you think abortion is birth control.....you are EXACTLY the type of woman im talking about. abortion is not birth control...man you must be the reborn margarate sanger...take the morning after pill all you want...but it does not surprise me you would think abortion is a form of birth control....disgusting.


Technically, abortion is birth control.

How dare you demonize a woman exercising her rights. Your response to her is what is disgusting.


yeah techically it is birth control...its also eugenics....so you support eugenics?

and you then defend her by basically saying my response to her saying that abortion as birth control is disgusting....is whats disgusting...thanks told me all i need to know about you.

im so glad you support a womens rights to eugenics(using abortion for birth control is eugenics 101).

is it possible for margerate sanger to be reborn into TWO people....hmmm.

why are you so shocked that i would condemn a women who uses abortion as birth control?

dont sit there behind your computor with your eyes real wide...the women just said that she has a right to use abortion as birth control..and you expect me to just let it go? this is a thread about pro-choice insanity....and thank you two lovelys for proving how INSANE and EXTREME the pro-choice crowd really is.

you heard it from pro-choicers themeselves....abortion is to be used as birth control.



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 07:20 PM
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reply to post by Monts
 


Didn't Daddy make his choice when he decided to sex her without adequate birth control? Didn't that say that Daddy didn't care if she became pregnant or not? I don't think that the fathers are really victims in these cases. They could have taken steps to prevent a pregnancy and chose not to. If they are forced to deal with the consequences of their choice, too bad. Guys in this country need to seriously wake up.



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 07:21 PM
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I think I read back in college that the American got involved in Medicine in the first place hundreds of years ago Because of the issue of abortion. It was performed by midwives at the time, and many people died due to poor sanitation conditions etc.

Anyways, legislation was created to face this widespread problem, and in it laws required all abortions to be performed by licences doctors and that simple midwives were no longer allowed to perform them due to the obvious high death rates involved.

Anyways, the point is, this topic is OLD, as in ages old, hundreds of years old. Thus the lengthy discussions over it in university history courses.

It will not end today, and it will not end tomorrow. It will continue with humans as long as people have sex like idiots when they do not want babies.And yes, having sex when you don't want a baby is STUPID 100%. Sperm and eggs make Babies DUH!!!!

I am Pro-abortion for Dumb people who did not know sex = babies. This is Darwinian selection, survival of the fittest working it's magic here.

I am Pro-Life for Smart people who know sex is for babies, they should KEEP their kids. Those are good genetic lines....



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 07:25 PM
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Originally posted by godless
reply to post by Monts
 


Didn't Daddy make his choice when he decided to sex her without adequate birth control? Didn't that say that Daddy didn't care if she became pregnant or not? I don't think that the fathers are really victims in these cases. They could have taken steps to prevent a pregnancy and chose not to. If they are forced to deal with the consequences of their choice, too bad. Guys in this country need to seriously wake up.


so its the mans fault he does not wear a condom? give me a break. most of the time if not all the time the woman has the say in birth control.

what bullcrap...if a woman tells you to wear a condom...you wear a freakin condom.

women always have the final say in that matter...MOST of the time. i personally dont know any men that can have sex with a women without a condom, if she REALLY wants the guy to wear a condom.

women have all the power in these situations...what can the guy do...rape her?

unless the women is very mentally weak and is very submissive...nope what you desribe does not happen.



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 07:28 PM
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reply to post by DEMONcrats
 


HA You use eugenics as an equal to abortion? Eugenics is the process of "bettering" the gene pool by discouraging reproduction itself by anyone with any type of deficiency or any unwanted inheritable genes . Good try though.

Don't just sit there behind you computer "wide eyed" because the woman had the utter gall to state her opinions that don't match with yours. Do you know her personally? Do you know anything about me? No, you don't.

And yes, I AM pro-choice. You know what I chose? I chose to have my son. I choose to have my daughter in August. But if I wanted to I could have chosen otherwise.

I will admit that calling your comment "disgusting" was no better than you doing it to her and for that apologize. You have a right to your opinion and others theirs.



[edit on 14-4-2010 by angrymomma]



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 07:30 PM
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I understand the OP's point, but it IS the womans body that has to carry the child and give birth to the child. A very simple, common sense approach so a man never has to go through the whole ordeal pointed out is to USE PROTECTION! simple!
And im talking about a condom in conjunction with birth control pill... i will never trust a woman simply taking birth control pills for various reasons. That's just me though.

[edit on 14-4-2010 by Solomons]



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 07:34 PM
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Originally posted by DEMONcrats

Originally posted by godless
reply to post by Monts
 


so its the mans fault he does not wear a condom? give me a break. most of the time if not all the time the woman has the say in birth control.

what bullcrap...if a woman tells you to wear a condom...you wear a freakin condom.

women always have the final say in that matter...MOST of the time. i personally dont know any men that can have sex with a women without a condom, if she REALLY wants the guy to wear a condom.

women have all the power in these situations...what can the guy do...rape her?

unless the women is very mentally weak and is very submissive...nope what you desribe does not happen.



Wait wait wait wait wait. Clarify this for me. Honest to god, I might be misinterpreting what you wrote. But are you saying that is the responsibility of the WOMAN to make sure the man is wearing a condom, that the man takes no responsibility for it at all if he isn't asked to wear one? Really, I'm honestly asking if that is what you mean. I'm tired, pregnant, and at work so I'm not really speedy right now haha.



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 07:35 PM
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abortion debate should be a non-issue...why? because abortion should not be happening....not in todays age.

with the easily available birth control pill and the even more easily available condom.....'unwanted' pregnancys should be a thing of the past...is this not the point of birth control.....to CONTROL when you have a baby?

like the astute person above me stated: SEX=BABIES

this is commen knowledge....why have a sex education course in classrooms when you can get the same knowledge of the reproductive system in biology....more waste.

if you dont know SEX=BABIES.

or how to slip a condom on your dong...or to take a little pill......then in my opinion you need to be sterilized post hast.

its not rocket science people.....but then again commen sense is pretty much gone in this world now adays... am losing hope for this world.....you would think ATS would be a haven for people with commen sense....but no...just more liberal stupidity.



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 07:43 PM
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Originally posted by angrymomma
reply to post by DEMONcrats
 


HA You use eugenics as an equal to abortion? Eugenics is the process of "bettering" the gene pool by discouraging reproduction itself by anyone with any type of deficiency or any unwanted inheritable genes . Good try though.

Don't just sit there behind you computer "wide eyed" because the woman had the utter gall to state her opinions that don't match with yours. Do you know her personally? Do you know anything about me? No, you don't.

And yes, I AM pro-choice. You know what I chose? I chose to have my son. I choose to have my daughter in August. But if I wanted to I could have chosen otherwise.

I will admit that calling your comment "disgusting" was no better than you doing it to her and for that apologize. You have a right to your opinion and others theirs.



[edit on 14-4-2010 by angrymomma]


it may not be eugenics per say...but it is pretty much almost the same thing...using abortion for birth control is no better then eugenics.

so you had your son and daughter.....if you could go back would you abort them...knowing what they look like,smell like,etc. since you stated you could have aborted them...like thats a thing to be proud of.

you have the right under LAW to get a abortion. but laws such as those are subject to change.

its about people using abortion for freaking birth control...and in my opinion(and its pretty safe to say that the majority dont support abortion as birth control as the polls have shown)its wrong.

abortion in general is wrong to me. because it should not have happened. women today have every tool they need to NOT get pregnant....how can you deny this?

they can have there partners wear a condom.....for gods sake you can go down to a center and get free birth control pills and condoms....women have every tool they need to NOT get pregnant FOR FREE......abortion is a non-issue.



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 07:45 PM
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reply to post by DEMONcrats
 


I don't know about other countries, but i would say the large abortion rate in teens etc in the UK is due to alcohol, it's almost "normal" to get absolutely pissed out your face on the weekend, have sex with some random person unprotected and hardly remember it the next morning. You can go to nearly every town and city in the country and you will find this. So yes, im blaming alcohol...but before alcohol you obviously have to address the problems in our culture that lead to such abuse.



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 07:56 PM
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Originally posted by angrymomma

Originally posted by DEMONcrats

Originally posted by godless
reply to post by Monts
 


so its the mans fault he does not wear a condom? give me a break. most of the time if not all the time the woman has the say in birth control.

what bullcrap...if a woman tells you to wear a condom...you wear a freakin condom.

women always have the final say in that matter...MOST of the time. i personally dont know any men that can have sex with a women without a condom, if she REALLY wants the guy to wear a condom.

women have all the power in these situations...what can the guy do...rape her?

unless the women is very mentally weak and is very submissive...nope what you desribe does not happen.



Wait wait wait wait wait. Clarify this for me. Honest to god, I might be misinterpreting what you wrote. But are you saying that is the responsibility of the WOMAN to make sure the man is wearing a condom, that the man takes no responsibility for it at all if he isn't asked to wear one? Really, I'm honestly asking if that is what you mean. I'm tired, pregnant, and at work so I'm not really speedy right now haha.


you can wait all you want.

its both parties responsability...but the woman has the final say in almost everything related to the matters of sex.

a man will generally wear a condom if asked.

most men will bring out a condom before sexy...is it the mans fault if a women says 'no i want to FEEL you' or some other crap she says to try and make her sound sexy?

if you cant recognize that women have all the power in the bedroom(unless she is a submissive or wants to be dominated)well i feel sorry for you.

so yes im saying it is her fault if she tells the man not to wear one or does not ask if he has one...and if he does not have one and she still has sex with him.....well its her fault as well.

its the guys fault if he has sex with her without one as well.....i say if you go into the sex not wearing a condom or knowing she is not on birth control...then man up.

and women need to 'man up' as well. most abortion are used as birth control...less then 5% of all abortions are for rape/medical/incest.

to put that in perspective..thats around 37 million babies aborted in the united states because 'its not the right time, 'i dont want to be a mom', 'im not ready'.

pathetic excuses.



posted on Apr, 14 2010 @ 08:01 PM
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reply to post by DEMONcrats
 


See you are demonizing me. No, I would not go back and abort my children. I made the CHOICE a long time ago (3 years before I had my first child with my husband) when I thought I was pregnant by a boyfriend that abortion was not the CHOICE for me. I did my research on the subject and found it was not something I PERSONALLY could go through with. Abortion is also a non-issue for ME. But I'm not gonna pretend that I know what every woman out there goes through so that is why I am pro-choice.

You are kinda right, a woman in today's world should not have to make this choice because of all the "pre" options given to them. But to entirely suggest that would be like saying women are infallible and don't make mistakes (which is what I of course tell my husband HA) and that, unfortunately, is not true.

With my son, I was on the pill and my husband was using condoms. Although very effective, birth control is not 100%. I couldn't be happier that it failed though haha.

I guess we'll just have to politely disagree with one another. Though I will admit that wasn't entirely polite before.



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