The Utter Insanity of Pro-Choice

Male Pro-choice here.


When a man has to carry a fetus for 9 months, enjoying labour pains, PPDS, sagging flesh, baby fat, heavy lactating breats, ect. Then he can have a say.

Untill then, sorry, womans body, womans choice.

Ultimately, it is her life the changes, she who forms a deep biological bond with the child, long before the man ever can.


As a male, your moral or religious choices have no play when it comes to a womans right to choose.

reply to post by DEMONcrats


I am not disagreeing that a woman has a responsibility to make sure that sex is safe if she wants it to be. What I disagree with is that it relies SOLELY on the woman. Both partners should be totally aware of what's going on.

But reading through your response to my question I saw I was interpreting what you wrote incorrectly. I thought you were saying it relied only on the woman. I told you, I'm at work and tired so I'm not too speedy .

Originally posted by DEMONcrats
and women need to 'man up' as well. most abortion are used as birth control...less then 5% of all abortions are for rape/medical/incest.


to put that in perspective..thats around 37 million babies aborted in the united states because 'its not the right time, 'i dont want to be a mom', 'im not ready'.

pathetic excuses.

Source your figures please

Further, how many of those in the "I dont want to be a mom" (as you put it) are under the age of 18? How many come from inner city low income families? How many of them already have a child?

You speak as if you read this in a book. Life throws curve balls every chance it gets, nothing is as plain cut.

[edit on 14-4-2010 by InSpiteOf]

reply to post by InSpiteOf



This time around my husband was the one feeling my nausea and is gaining more weight than I am haha. Sympathy pains is what I think it was called. "Is this what you went through with Caleb? Geez, why did you wanna do it again?!"

You wanna know what I told him? "You know that feeling you got when you held him for the first time? That's why."

[edit] to add last statement because I pressed reply too quickly.


[edit on 14-4-2010 by angrymomma]

Originally posted by InSpiteOf

Originally posted by DEMONcrats
and women need to 'man up' as well. most abortion are used as birth control...less then 5% of all abortions are for rape/medical/incest.

to put that in perspective..thats around 37 million babies aborted in the united states because 'its not the right time, 'i dont want to be a mom', 'im not ready'.

pathetic excuses.

Source your figures please

Further, how many of those in the "I dont want to be a mom" (as you put it) are under the age of 18? How many come from inner city low income families? How many of them already have a child?

You speak as if you read this in a book. Life throws curve balls every chance it gets, nothing is as plain cut.

here you go amigo

www.abortionno.org...

not good enough?

www.abortiontv.com...

must i go on?

in the first link it specifically states "1% of all abortions occur because of rape or incest; 6% of abortions occur because of potential health problems regarding either the mother or child, and 93% of all abortions occur for social reasons (i.e. the child is unwanted or inconvenient)."

there you go amigo...there you go.

reply to post by angrymomma


i never stated that there was no accidents....but the accidents are extremly rare...like almost impossible rare. the fail rate of a condom is really low...like 2%.

used with birth control pills...i just find it very hard to believe you got pregnant.....not as in"you lie"...but as in wow...thats like super rare.


sorry if i sounded high strung about this....but i love children...i have always been very close to them.

i never had a father in my life...so it may have done something to me since being a father my self is one of my life goals...and i just cant imagine how a person can go through with abortion.

i was brought up in a religious environment..even though im agnostic....i just cant help it..i love children.

my brother was born with something known as C.H.A.R.G.E syndrome....the doctor said he would not live past the age of 2...well he proved the doctor wrong....he is 12 yrs old....he drove me and my mom crazy....my life was hard.

but he smiles all the time...he laughs all the time...he can walk when they said he could not.

even though he going through heart failure...i would never want his life to b snuffed out because people think he is 'suffering'.

when i hear people speak so callously about aborting babies....or aborting children with defects....i think about my brother....and it just sets me off.

i have strong personal values and issues with abortion.

sorry if a came off as a douche.

Consentual sex seems to be the only act to which the law does not hold the participants accountable for their actions and the obvious consequences.

Yes, a woman has the right to control her own body. So, use a contraceptive or do not have sex. It's pretty damn simple.

my two cents...

reply to post by DEMONcrats


It's entirely no problem. It's a very hot button issue and tension will always run high when the subject comes up. Everyone lets their emotions get to them every once and a while , especially me haha.

You think you find it hard to believe I got pregnant? I don't think my husband said anything but "how?" for like 20 minutes haha.



[edit on 14-4-2010 by angrymomma]

reply to post by angrymomma


i just checked out your profile...do you live in BAMA?

if thats the case....we may be next door neighbors

reply to post by DEMONcrats


Yep, Decatur, AL to be exact.

Stupid damn one liner response type thingy that I have to do.



[edit on 14-4-2010 by angrymomma]

reply to post by angrymomma



i live in alabaster...central alabama.

i never knew there were so many alabamians on here...the things you learn

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
The time for a man's CHOICE is when he CHOOSES to place his seed inside a woman.

Lol what? Are you serious? It takes two to tango. The woman also chooses (unless it's rape) to "receive the mans seed". So as long as both agrees, both should have a say in the issue.

Men are totally over looked on when it comes to parenting. It's always the "mom", even when the "mom" is a total psycho, the courts will often rule in her favor when it comes to custody rights.

My point is, there should be some sort of "court system" when there is a disagreement between the two, someone to mediate the situation and help one or the other see the opposites way of thinking.

Men love their children too, you women aren't the only ones.

Demoncrat wrote:

"a man will generally wear a condom if asked.

most men will bring out a condom before sexy...is it the mans fault if a women says 'no i want to FEEL you' or some other crap she says to try and make her sound sexy?

if you cant recognize that women have all the power in the bedroom(unless she is a submissive or wants to be dominated)well i feel sorry for you."

+++++++++++++++++++++++=


A real man generally needn't be ASKED to wear protection, a real man takes control of reproduction juices and provides his own protection, no matter what the woman says.

Are you seriously saying that you and men in general are such pansified wimps that the mere muttering of the words, "no baby I wanna feel you in me" is all it takes for you to make a deposit in the Bank of Takes For 18 yrs+?

Thats not a powerful woman, dear.

That's one dumb man.

Originally posted by Frontkjemper

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
The time for a man's CHOICE is when he CHOOSES to place his seed inside a woman.

Lol what? Are you serious? It takes two to tango. The woman also chooses (unless it's rape) to "receive the mans seed". So as long as both agrees, both should have a say in the issue.

I am not debating if men love their children. This is a debate on abortion. Not emotions, not fatherly love, not evil women, but abortion. I dont feel men have a say in the issue, you do. We disagree.

But I agree with your above statement.

The woman indeed chooses to receive seed. Of course they must both agree to this act, or it is as you say rape.

In accepting the transfer of seed, both parties know the limited outcomes that arise from such a transaction.

Pregnancy.

No pregnancy.

In each case, there is nothing left for the man to do but wait, and see if he gets a return on his investment in nine months.

Those are the facts each time man and woman couple.

The man has one say at the beginning, and if he makes his choice to have sex he is granting his permission to sow his seed to harvest.

If he did not want this eventual outcome, he has choices, like woman have choices. He can choose to abstain. He can choose vasectomy. But ultimately, both parties know the two results of having sex.

Pregnant or not pregnant.

Only the woman has choices in the pregnancy stage.

And one of those choices is to listen to her partner and reflect his feelings.

But again that is only one of her choices.

Abortion is another.

It has to do with the right to bodily autonomy.

The concept is that human being gets to decide what to do with his or her body.

The constitution implies a right to decide what to do with your own body as long as you're not a danger to others. The same constitutional right to abortion, also gives makes a law forcing the population to take a certain drug unconstitutional. It's also the reason they can't make being high a crime, only "possession of a controlled substance."

Originally posted by Monts
reply to post by jeanvaljean

 

Not necessarily, I am merely pointing out the fact that as soon as the embryo is implanted, the father has absolutely no say in abortion or birth, even though he is just as responsible for the pregnancy as the mother.

Being a guy myself, this really bugs me :/

Here is what women have been told and have had to live with for centuries.

"You made a bad choice in who you slept with"

First id like to say that though this will not be agreeable to everyone... I expect it. But I would like to ask some questions and yet, answer some in the process.
I believe that this is a double edged sword, and if you agree with one side, your heartless, and if you believe in another than you believe that your not allowing a life to flourish.

But what is really the long term effect of both?

Lets look at the anti-abortion debate.

We have young women(under the age of 18) and older women(over 18), and they are confronted with the issue of being pregnant. Now there are to many issues to name for the reason to look into getting an abortion, but let us look at some.

You can take the (life) of a child or fetus, and their are so many possibilities for this unknown and unnamed human, that can bring so much to the world, but not given the chance.

Then you have the abortion debate, where the same circumstances apply, but with a twist. There's no father involved, there's the fear of being put out of the home, and just not being able to take care of a child.

Now of course when you look at the outside of this, it looks simple. Just have the kid, but here's the kicker, lets look at the (possible) reality.

A person was born, when it wasnt wanted, or placed under the states care, or even killed. BTW that happens even when someone is placed in states care. Now this person, the possible president, or the new creator of something revolutionary is now lost in the system that was never really created for someone to survive.

What are we left with?

Well though I may not have all the answers, here are some things to consider.
We have a way to change this, we always have, but have never really been taught that, besides the fact that most parents ask their children not to have sexual relations, that doesnt always work.

We have such things as the morning after pill, now hang on a sec, this isnt and abomination of sorts, this is an answer to an age old question... how can we stop something before it starts! If we stopped acting closed minded to the realities of our world and realized that we cannot takeit personal if our under aged child had sex, and we realized that our humanity will flourish it we stop, before it starts, then we are one step ahead.

Also, the pill has to be given without question, now of course I said that there would be disagreements, well here it is, out in the open, they should be given without parental consent, if a child or someone irresponsible is given the chance to change, or lets say turn back time they would, why do we think that this is not possible?

We can stop all of this, if we all decide that a life, means those of others and ourselves.

And thats my 2 cents.

Peace to you all...

Honestly, I really think people need to accept responsibility and realise that there are consequences to their actions. I think that before two people decide to have sex, they should have a talk about this sort of issue and what they'd choose to do. If they can't agree on what they'd do if the woman got pregnant, then I guess they really shouldn't have sex in the first place.

If they make certain decisions about what would happen if the woman gets pregnant, then they should be held to their word to a certain extent.

If they agree they'll keep it, then the woman should go ahead with the pregnancy unless they both change their minds. And if the man changes his mind, then he should have to pay child support and anything else to do with making sure the baby has everything it needs.

If they agree the woman will get an abortion, then the woman should get an abortion and not be expected to not carry through, unless they both change their minds or the woman changes her mind in which case the man shouldn't have to pay child support or have anything else to do with the baby.

I don't know if that would actually work exactly, but it seems to me it maybe could work?? Maybe if health organisations and media made it a campaign or something, like how they do with informing people about sex and protection. I mean people (especially teens) are always being informed to only have sex when they're ready and to not give and have sex for the wrong reasons (i.e peer pressure) so why not make talking about what you'd do if you got pregnant a really important topic? It would be a 'what-if-you-got-pregnant?' plan, kind of like making sure you have a plan if your house/workplace gets on fire? Lol, I know it's not exactly the same thing, but hopefully someone gets my point.
But I think that kind of thing could work to some extent. At least focus on teens and young people at first by putting it in magazines read by that age group. Get people talking about and make it an important issue, like other issues about sex. And then I guess, have it talked about like on Oprah or something where adults will see it and talk about it. Just really to make talking about it an important issue and really highlight consequences and stuff and having a plan in place.

But otherwise, if neither person had the foresight to use protection or talk about what should happen if the woman gets pregnant, then maybe they both need to sit down together and really talk about it and really consider all the options together because they would both be to blame for not considering the consequences (unless they're young, which would require more understanding because of their age). And if the woman really wants to go ahead with abortion, hopefully for good reasons, then I guess that's that. Or something like that. I believe it should be the woman's choice unless she has agreed or agrees that the man has a choice and a say in it too, in which case she shouldn't be allowed to override his decision later on. Unless there's a very good reason for that.

IMHO, I really believe it's the woman's decision, unless of course what I described above happens and there's a pregnancy plan in place.

I'm definitely pro-choice and I believe a woman has the right to an abortion if she so chooses. But that said, I would never have an abortion myself, because I don't believe that for me, it would be the right decision, ever except in vary rare circumstances. But I really believe that there always needs to be that option to abort, because I believe options are really important for democracy and for the growth (spiritually and morally) of civilisation.

Also IMHO, if you really believe abortion is wrong (especially religious people), isn't it much better for people to decide not to have anything to do with abortion because they choose not to, rather than being forced through various laws???

Sorry, I know this is really long, but I really just had to share my thoughts about this and make sure I explained these thoughts properly lol

It's the woman's body, it's the woman's choice. When men start bearing babies for nine months with all the sacrifices it entails, we'll have a say. If he's lucky, the woman may take his views into account. If not, tough luck.

It really is that simple.

It's actually very simple. When it comes to what happens to someones body, let alone gestating an unwanted fetus for nine months then endure labor against ones will, then the mother has say over the government or another person.

Legally it's not that hard to understand either and the right to privacy has been upheld many times over in case law, so there is ample legal precedent for it.

www.highbeam.com...

The full Court of Appeals began its ruling with the tenet common to all medical treatment cases: that any person has the right to make an informed choice and, if competent to accept or forego medical treatment. It then cited a Pennsylvania court ruling in Shrimp v. McFall maintaining that a severely burned patient could not get a court order to compel a cousin to donate the bone marrow necessary to save the patient's life

In the Pennsylvania court's words, "The common law has consistently held to a rule which provides that one human being is under no legal compulsion to give aid or take action to save another human being." In that court's view, to rule otherwise would "change every concept and principle upon which our society is founder."

The interests of the father come a far place behind the rights to privacy. If persons born do not have the right to anther's bodily resources then the unborn certainly do not either (let alone the father).

It would help if you researched the abortion issue.