Gay TV for kids!, page 4
Pages: <<  1    2    3    4    5    6  >>
ATS Members have flagged this thread 0 times


reply posted on 7-6-2004 @ 04:11 AM by CazMedia
Earthtone says,
"For those of you who can't accept or tolerate why not look back and see why you may not be accepting towards this certain group of people. There has to be a reason right ?"

The better question would be..."why is acceptance nessisary?"
or "whats wrong with not accepting an idea?" when did it become wrong to not adopt a minority proposal to the majority in a democracy?
I think the political correct police have done a good job programming many into not being "critical" about anything.....the wishy washy wimpy cant make a determination one way or the other because we dont want to hurt anyones feeling society. Societies are not defined by being all inclusive...they are defined by their laws and cultural boundaries, in comparison to other cultural definitions.

Pisky says,
"Play School is merely trying to prepare kids for what actually happens in the world outside. "

NO corporation should be trying to prepare kids for anything. First of all, corporations only exist for profits....I.E. greed. Not a motive for teaching kids anything....

Parents are the ultimate authority as to what their kids learn, when and how....(they should be at least) Play skool can make toys/videos ect that reflect society at large, but they are not proponents of ideology for your children...YOU ARE. and you dont have to accept the corporate line or the politicians nor even the monority views as to what you think your kid needs to learn and why.

If adults want to watch gay tv. tune in
but childrens diet of programming needs to be monitored by parents. Things that parents find objectional, or too mature for their childs comprehension level, should be controlled by parents....

Hitting up kids in a kids show with this idea, even subtly, without parental acknowledgement that this program would contain this material is a sneeky ploy by some pro gay person somewhere, to influence other peoples kids without being "overt"

Exactly what gay ideas would be ok/not ok to put into a kids show?
I cant wait for the gay version of Goldilocks and the 3 bears.
Or what about the remake of gay family robinson?
Mabey fred and barney from the flintstones can divorce their wives and shack up together?

Hmmm, mabey there is some possibillities for gay childrens tv yet...LOL


reply posted on 7-6-2004 @ 10:33 AM by KrazyJethro
Originally posted by earthtone

I think it can be said for both. I mean what is the real issue here? Why do people refuse to accept the minority always , in every case in society? For those of you who can't accept or tolerate why not look back and see why you may not be accepting towards this certain group of people. There has to be a reason right ?


First, what are you talking about. The post you replied to was for Intrepid, by the way.

Why are you applying the intolerance yoke on me?

As for the post you should be replying to, here it is again.

"What if those values include that certain races are inferior? That people that speack a certian language are, whatever? That gays are evil? I think that those values should NEVER be taught to children."

By KJ

What about it? So what if they do, it's their child after all. Even if it is wrong (which in some cases it is and some it's not), what can you possibly do about it?

The point is, is you can do nothing, as parents should be the most powerful influence in their childs lives. I can bet that if that was true now like it was more 30 or 40+ years ago, most would NOT teach that a certain group is "inferior".

Saying people are wrong does not mean they are inferior. Judging ones actions is not judgement against a person.

Neither are wrong in any way and I find that to be more important to teach children.

Otherwise, they will be ignorantly following the complete tolerance ideals much like they would the intolerance ideals.

Being blindly accepting would create people who could not recognize true evil.




reply posted on 8-6-2004 @ 01:46 AM by CazMedia
Intrepid asks ok KJ,
"What if those values include that certain races are inferior? That people that speack a certian language are, whatever? That gays are evil? I think that those values should NEVER be taught to children"

You cant have this debate both ways....
while i agree that these example ideas are not favorable to society....if you say to the majority..."you have to accept our alternate gay lifestyle or your bad".....then you must also accept another minority asking you to respect their rights to teach that "gays are bad, non english speakers are bad, other races are bad." Tolorance is tolorance.

Intrepid says, "It's this type of ignorance that keeps us from getting along."

How ignorant is it to say to the society at large..."accept our minority ideals but not their minority ideals" as if one is "better" than the other? who is to decide this if not the majority in a culture?

Earthtone, Why the confusion? At no point in your life have you "judge" people? Youve NEVER determined that one person was a waste of flesh in comparrison to another person? GET REAL! You have already judged anyone that for any reason opposes the "mainstreaming" of gay ideology as being a hate filled homophobe. Judge not, lest ye be judged?

Answering other of your questions, yes im in the USA, and if i could vote (i just moved to new state and havnt registered yet) i would be voting for BUSH!...not because i think he's the best (he's done plenty to P me off)..but because changing leadership in the middle of a war doesnt sound like the best plan....im not into a 90 day period in late dec/ early jan where our gov will be in transition...while our troops are on the front lines. Besides, Bush started it, he might as well have the time to finnish it...Im amazed the democrats even want to atempt to clean up Bush's "mess".

Yes terror plays a role in my vote, as i hope it will to all Americans....I dont want to let terror claim another victory here if they attack before an election and Kerry wins...We'll look like we caved in like Spain....it wont matter to terrorists why you voted for Kerry, only that they will claim their atack caused our election to sway....thats way too much political clout to give the terrorist...ill live thru 4 years more of Bush.

you ask, "Do you not then feel hatred towards the terrorists because they don't 'accept' your way of life?"

NO, i dont hate them because of the differances between our cultures...in fact I pity them. In a way they are correct...the west is exporting its culture and it does not coincide with their ideology....as a person that just said if im to tolorate one view, i need to be open to another view....I MUST then say that they have every right to be Taliban, make women subserviante...or whatever...its their country....even if i agree that some aspects of their culture seem barbaric to me...its theirs to have.
That tolorance ends when they make and carry out threats.

I do hate that they are using a cowards tactic in their cause. (terrorism)
I hate them for forever burning the images of 9-11 into my brain....I hate them because living in Florida at the time, i lost my job on 9-12 as did many others nowhere near the actual attacks. I hate them because they have expressed hate and the desire to kill the western culture.)
You know what? ITS OK THAT I HATE THEM!!!!!

Earthtone says, "When can people learn not to hate and fear?"
Why is this nessisary, and is it even possible?
How can you know love, if you dont know hate?
How can one know fear if you dont know security?

Love/Hate are emotions....humans are emotional beings.....how can you tell people to have one emotion and not another? Im still amazed at "hate crime" legislation.....if i murder someone, does it really matter what racial slur i yelled as i did it? isnt murder murder reguardless of why i did it?

While I agree that hate is not as productive of an emotion, it serves its purpose.
Survival of the fittest has made the "fight or flight" mechanism in most animals....fear and "mistrusting" things that are different than you or the "normal" environment that an organism lives in, are natural mechanisms to help keep a lifeform from becomming dead (thereby not reproducing)

For you to ask "When can people learn not to hate and fear?" is certantly the hallmark of an enlightened person, but
How can you ask mankind to deny his very nature as a creature? Why not ask us to give up love as well? People have been killed for reasons of "love" as well as because someone hated the victim.

Earthtone says, "I mean, we all know that murder is wrong, child pornography is wrong etc etc"

How would/do you know these things are wrong? Because you grew up in a culture that had clearly defined boundaries about these behaiviors!!! OMG...you were indoctrinated by the culture you live in, into those beliefs!!!! Imagine that, a culture that had already set boundaries when you arrived, and ones that you adhear to....wow what a concept!

Back to my original premise then...why cant a democratic society set any boundries it wants for its culture to exhibit? there are plenty of things where our culture says "NO" to behaivor that doesnt appear to hurt anyone. Why is marriage any different?

Again you mentioned "harming noone"....can you please explain the harm?
Wouldnt both sides be able to cite "harms" in a similar magnitude? (perhaps you should scan for other gay marriage threads where the issue of "harm" is discussed in more detail, so as not to get too off track on this thread)


reply posted on 8-6-2004 @ 04:09 AM by earthtone
Originally posted by CazMedia
Intrepid asks ok KJ,

you have to accept our alternate gay lifestyle or your bad".....


then you must also accept another minority asking you to respect their rights to teach that "gays are bad, non english speakers are bad, other races are bad." Tolorance is tolorance.


Thats the thing, I wouldn't support a group that was inciting hatred towards others. Can you give me an example of homosexuals in your country actually inciting hatred towards the people different to them? If not then this isn't relevant really. .

Intrepid says, "It's this type of ignorance that keeps us from getting along."


I agree.

Earthtone, Why the confusion? At no point in your life have you "judge" people? Youve NEVER determined that one person was a waste of flesh in comparrison to another person? GET REAL!


Did I say I hadn't/didn't? I am a human being Caz, I judge even though I try not too. The point of thread for me, is to not indoctrinate childre, but to simply 'normalize' being a homosexual. This doesn't mean that people cannot eventually decide to disagree with gay practise, but wouldn't you say it would be more beneficial to society to


NO, i dont hate them because of the differances between our cultures...in fact I pity them....IT'S OK THAT I HATE THEM!!!


Ok, so you do hate them then.

Earthtone says, "When can people learn not to hate and fear?"
Why is this nessisary, and is it even possible?



Hate and fear are both unecessery because they are both rarely justified by the person feeling them. I speak to openly racist people in my area and try to ask them why they despise Asian people and black people or just anyone who isn't English. They start by saying "They are robbin' our F*ckin benefits" which is a fear that simply isn't true. Then the only other thing they can say is some racial slur carefully blended with curse words, this is hate without reason. If these people had been raised be tolerant people then they would be different. This might mean one less race related killing in my area....


isnt murder murder reguardless of why i did it?


And don't you want to make efforts to try and stop hate crimes from happening? I mean the fact is , if you got a family of KKK members and moved them to Harlem, at first they would despise it. Leave that family there for two generations and the chances are that the kids of those kids are going to be tolerant of everyone around them, becuase they realise that they are normal just like them.

While I agree that hate is not as productive of an emotion, it serves its purpose.


What? War, rape, murder, drug abuse.....these are all aspects of people hating one another, or themselves. Hate is destructive.

Survival of the fittest has made the "fight or flight" mechanism in most animals....fear and "mistrusting" things that are different than you or the "normal" environment that an organism lives in, are natural mechanisms to help keep a lifeform from becomming dead


Are we micro organisms? We have brains people. It should be "the fittest help the unfittest survive", but it's not. Mistrust comes from unfamiliarity, you are correct. Thus in the case of homosexuals I think it would be beneficial to include same sex couples more in younger childrens TV, not indoctrination, simply subtle adjustment.

People have been killed for reasons of "love" as well as because someone hated the victim.


Do you think Hitler loved the Jews?

How would/do you know these things are wrong? Because you grew up in a culture that had clearly defined boundaries about these behaiviors!!! OMG...you were indoctrinated by the culture you live in,

#, call me indoctrinated, I just never see justification to harming anyone, or harm to anyone who does no harm to anyone.

"harm"


This harm you speak of. Now, you seem to be saying that if I believe that gay people should be introduced into society in a more positive way, that I then at the same time must accept that killing somebody, or raping a child is also fine. I see just a little difference between to consenting adults having a relationship and somebody sexually abusing or harming another person. Don't you? The moral question you ask is very easy for me to answer because I see acres and acres of moral distance between a gay person and a murderer or child abuser. Society sets out in laws essentially that we can do alot, but just don't harm or damage anyone else or their property. I don't really see your point.


reply posted on 8-6-2004 @ 11:22 PM by sweatmonicaIdo
Very interesting topic.

To backtrack a little, let me just say the U.S., in terms of a "good society," is very stumped, and has lots of trouble accepting certain aspects of life, especially on television. A U.S. TV show featuring homosexuality of any sort is cause for concern and contrevorsy in America. However, some of you may be familiar with the show "Degrassi," which was popular in the 1980s and quite popular among a smaller crowd today. It's targeted at adolescents, and is actually a rather realistic and very vivid interpretation of adolescent life. They are very liberal on what they show and they show lots of things that would be a no-no in an American show, including homosexuality. Homosexuality is a topic that is explored very deeply on Degrassi, and while it doesn't get too graphic, it does show enough about it to bear major significance (two guys going out on a date, falling in love, discussions about gay sex). Interestingly, it is a Canadian show, so that shows America's stomach for what it defines as "contrevorsial issues."

That said, I don't think you can blame people who hate or dislike or are against homosexuality. Really. You can't blame them. I don't hold those kind of people very highly, but even as someone who is bi, I don't hate them. To me, the issue has always been tolerance and treating them like people rather than anomalies.

Put it this way. There are people who don't like Asians. But are they tolerated and given the same rights as whites? Absolutely yes. Dusty Baker says white baseball players can't handle hot weather while blacks can. A racist comment, yes. But are whites restricted from playing MLB? No.

I think the issue should not be how certain people view homosexuals. That is one thing you cannot change and may well never change. But it should be about whether we treat them as equal humans or as anomalies. Martin Luther King Jr. knew that there would always be racists. But he still fought because he wanted people of all different cultures and races to be treated the same as anyone else, no matter how certain people thought.

[edit on 8-6-2004 by sweatmonicaIdo]

[edit on 8-6-2004 by sweatmonicaIdo]


reply posted on 9-6-2004 @ 03:37 AM by CazMedia
Earthtone,
First of all, i commend you for trying to debate both KJ and myself....your hanging tough in the face of 2 of the toughest verbal banterers around ATS from what ive seen. And youve managed to at least be mostly reasonable and logical in your defense arguments.

The hug fest is over

You quote me then respond,
quote: then you must also accept another minority asking you to respect their rights to teach that "gays are bad, non english speakers are bad, other races are bad." Tolorance is tolorance.

Thats the thing, I wouldn't support a group that was inciting hatred towards others. Can you give me an example of homosexuals in your country actually inciting hatred towards the people different to them? If not then this isn't relevant really. .

It is totally relavent...my point here was not to judge the "right or wrong" of any minority groups ideology, but to show where i feel that GAYS ARE INTOLORANT!!! Its OK for the gay community to DEMAND concessions from the majority, yet they dont acknowledge that that same majority may not want to grant their request, and that is the RIGHT of the majority in democratic society. When the cultural majority declines to appease the minority, the majority is then labled "haters, biggots, ignorant" ect...how is this respecting the fact that the ones your seeking concessions from has just as much right to say no as you do to ask?
This also points out the fact that no matter what minority group your part of, they are all "EQUAL" under democratic principals regardless of their ideologies, as they are all MINORITY gropus in a DEMOCRATIC CULTURE.....

Earthtone questions,
"wouldn't you say it would be more beneficial to society to (accept gay adgenda)?"

I'd say it would be MOST bennificial in this democracy if the society actually got to vote on this issue, instead of having judges try to circumvent the laws by attepmting to become legislaters, manipulating the law to bypass the will of the majority. Give every citizen a say instead of inflicting the majority with a minority viewpoint on an issue of CHOICE!
Getting married is noones right...there is no promise of a spouce....having a spouce is not nessisary to function as a citizen..in fact many people dont marry. If we all voted, and gay marriage/tv was suppported by the majority....id have no problems moving on to the next issue.

Earthtone quotes me....sort of,
"quote: NO, i dont hate them because of the differances between our cultures...in fact I pity them....IT'S OK THAT I HATE THEM!!!"
EXCUSE ME, what happened to the 2 paragraphs between "pity them" and "Its ok"? Talk about selective editing....isnt ommision also considered lying? In short, yes i hate the terrorists, but not for the reasons your trying to pin me to....

Again, hate is as natural as love is....Hate can be constructive....example...(not historically fact checked here) way back when, women used to sew by hand all the time...they used to prick their fingers alot, and im sure they hated this, so that hate for sore pricked fingers caused someone to create the thimble. A sports team that hates losing, might be more motivated to succeed thru their hate of losing.
Yes hate draws more negative effects than love, but love has been used for evil intent as well as hate for good intent. Do i support people that"hate" no, but i support their rights to hate what they choose until the point the hate becomes hostile actions, then...hate time is over...get back into line, cause id hate to have to break it up. I agree with you that blind hate is ignorance, but hate based upon tangible things that can be reasonably justified (against terrorist for attacking civilians with cowardly tactics for example) and put into context with the rest of the social situations seems like the opposite side of the love coinf if you ask me....you can never have one without the other. again, i do not suport hatred, but tolorance says that i must tolorate those with views i dont support...(sounds like the first ammendment eh?) Am i this tolorant in practice? no one is. No one HAS to accept/tolorate anything....and im tired of those that say we must.

more Earthtone questions,
"don't you want to make efforts to try and stop hate crimes from happening?"

I want to effort stopping crime....
No i dont, because i see this as legal special intrest laws....murder is murder is murder, regardless of your reasons... "i killed him when i found him in bed with my wife", is no more/less a murder that killing someone because they were black,jew, ect..ect..... Spray painting a swastica on a jews garage door is vandalism and intimidation....does it really matter why the wacko that did it justified his acts? no, so then look at the crimes themselves....did the spray paint hate the jews garage door? no the door was vandalized by the paint...for whatever reason. Rob someone and take their wallet....now rob the same guy next week but yell "stupid 'n-word'" (choose your slur, i used the N word as im certain its use in the crime example would make it a hate crime) while you take his wallet, and your sentance just jumped...why...

you threatened the person and took their wallet in both cases...why is
just becaused you revealed your feelings about the victim does it make a differance? Could that same mugger get a hate crime sentance for saying "stupid rich person" instead? NO, because economic class is not protected....hmm yet the rich guys wallet is gone just like the other 2 victims....same crime yet different punnishments based on what? attitude?

You say,
"This harm you speak of. Now, you seem to be saying that if I believe that gay people should be introduced into society in a more positive way, that I then at the same time must accept that killing somebody, or raping a child is also fine. "
YES, IF the culture in question thru democratic means determined that the culture would adopt gay ideology yet also alow justifiable homicide....then yes, that democratic culture decided thats the face of their nation they want others to perceive and their citizens to live by.

While i agree with you that allowing murder is not the same caliber of acceptable as allowing gay kids tv....but the WHAT we are talking about allowing/disallowing is irrelavent....this is not about morals....it is the fact that in a democracy, no minority should be able to override the intrests of a majority. especially on an issue of choice!!!! This is about how our democracy works, and as an overall democratic culture, the "face" that we as a nation exhibit thru our laws and actions. for our identity,as well as to distinguish us from other nations. This face is also one aspect of how others will interpret our motivationa and actions. It affects all citizens weather they care or not, or feel affects or not.

Remeber, ONE aspect of why fundamentalist radical jihadist muslims call the USA the great satan, is because they dont tolorate homosexuality, and we do...we're getting ready to legitimize and institutionalize this idea into our culture....then in their eyes, not only do we let homo's do whatever, but now we've put it into laws that support it. This has now gone from (providing gay items are legalized) a deviant sex practice to a part of what it means to be American.

Honestly, i as a non gay citizen look and see gays saying legitimize us, and terrorists trying to kill me because id allow you to be legit....

Hmm id rather hurt your feelings then be dead...soo because of the "gay face" the terrorists see, id have to say id rather show them a different face, and decline gay kids shows as well as gay marriage, in hopes that I can remove one of the obsticals as to why im being hunted.
I also rather hurt peoples feelings then allow our democratic principals to be nullified....no minority adgenda is worth sacrificing our democracy.


reply posted on 9-6-2004 @ 05:29 AM by KrazyJethro
Originally posted by earthtone
The moral question you ask is very easy for me to answer because I see acres and acres of moral distance between a gay person and a murderer or child abuser. Society sets out in laws essentially that we can do alot, but just don't harm or damage anyone else or their property. I don't really see your point.



The point is, is that nothing is moral or right unless we give value to it. Everything is completely subjective and, by reasoning, you can not make claim to NOT make value judgements on one majoritively immoral thing without doing it for all.

The end solution of this conversation is this, while hate may be abhorrent there is no yin without yang. Love can not be without balance, so hate must be.

Also, the teaching of values that dictate wrong 1) in no way creates judgement on people but their actions unless skewed by the people themselves which is uncontrolable in nature, and 2) is a fundamental right of a society by creating the moral construct by which they choose to exist.

Should the Ameican people choose to disallow gay marriage (for instance), they have that right because no specific rights are violated, only priviledge which is not granted to those outside the guildlines required.

Recognition of marriage is governmental because it was seen as a stabilizing element in the country and created stronger communities. It was by no means started there, marriage is religious, and as such is dictated by them.


reply posted on 9-6-2004 @ 05:34 AM by earthtone
Originally posted by CazMedia
Earthtone,
And youve managed to at least be mostly reasonable and logical in your defense arguments.


Wow Caz, some might even call that a compliment!


"wouldn't you say it would be more beneficial to society to (accept gay adgenda)?"


"Gay agenda"? I'm not talking about any 'agenda' you fear. I am talking about the mindset that everyday people, apparently like you, have. GAYS ARE INTOLORANT, you rant, yet you take little time to put yourself in the position of a young, homosexual male in our society/ies today. I can honestly say that if I were gay I would feel worried and insecure about 'comingoutofthecloset' becuase of the reaction it would cause from many in my immidiate surroundings. Now, saying that, due to my personality I would not hide my true feelings becuase thats not the way to do anything. But I take for example: the large amount that 'gay' or other words are used around me in a derogatory way; the consistenly absurd stereotypes used to portray homosexuals in the media, and just the general 'taboo' fealing that surrounds what is almost viewed as an underground culture. THis is what is not fair. Gay rights have come leaps and bounds in a certain sense, however not alot has changed in terms of social equality, partly becuase of religion, partly becuase of discrimination, partly because of pure fear. This is not equality the way I see it.


GAYS ARE INTOLORANT!!!


the majority is then labled "haters, biggots, ignorant" ect...





inflicting the majority


Getting married is noones right

an overall democratic culture,



It's odd how in a way we are on the same wavelength, yet totally not. Jethro and yourself have presented this argument quite clearly, response may not have come across in my arguments previously. what I am saying is that obviously, regardless of how I feel, in this 'accepting society' that I dream of everyone has to be entitled to have their own personal views so long as they do not incite hatred. However, when you talk about 'majority' and 'democracy' in the same sentance I get confused. How can there be democracy if there is simply an almost mob mentality like "If it upsets the near majority (which this example doesn't quite) then that majority should be restricted." This doesn't sound fair to me, doesn't sound like an overall democratic culture. How are a minority supposed to vote against the majority? I also say that anyone has the right to make there union with another human being an official union. I don't understadn this 'noone has the right to get married' stuff.


yes i hate

Hate can be constructive No one HAS to accept/tolorate anything....and im tired of those that say we must


As I believe you have said, hate is a part of human nature, as love is. The only way I see hate as a constructive tool is when it is used to destroy evil. Hate can drive a person to sacrifice themselves for what they believe is right, as we all see on the news, In palestine and Israel everyday.



Remeber, ONE aspect of why fundamentalist radical jihadist muslims call the USA the great satan, is because they dont tolorate homosexuality, Hmm id rather hurt your feelings then be dead


F.E.A.R


reply posted on 9-6-2004 @ 05:50 AM by KrazyJethro
Originally posted by earthtone
Gay rights have come leaps and bounds in a certain sense, however not alot has changed in terms of social equality, partly becuase of religion, partly becuase of discrimination, partly because of pure fear. This is not equality the way I see it.


Again, because I, or religion, says it's wrong, does not incite hate. People incite their own hate. BUT, I believe the First Amendment protects all speech, even hate speech. Freedom of thought is also important. What you are missing is that this is complete equality. Gays have as much right to distain the thoughts of others, as we might them.

But what can you do about it? Not much outside your sphere of influence. What can the government do about it.

Nothing.

what I am saying is that obviously, regardless of how I feel, in this 'accepting society' that I dream of everyone has to be entitled to have their own personal views so long as they do not incite hatred.


How do you regulate something like that?

I also say that anyone has the right to make there union with another human being an official union.


They do, the government just doesn't recognize them for tax and records purposes, to name a few. But since when have you counted on the government to valuate your relationship.

Last time I checked, no one was keeping gay people from getting hired, from voting, from driving cars, sitting in the front of the bus, collecting welfare, owning property, speaking their minds, peaceably assembling, holding public office, having TV shows, writing books and articles to name a very few.
Pages: <<  1    2    3    4    5    6  >>    ^^TOP^^



Why my mind is closing towards Capitalism
  Posted 11 days ago with 78 member flags
Hippy Do-Gooders have Destroyed the World
  Posted 12 days ago with 23 member flags
Facts About Socialism
  Posted 3 days ago with 23 member flags
Are Liberals REALLY More Intelligent Than Conservatives?
  Posted 8 days ago with 18 member flags
Why conservatives . . . . . suck!
  Posted 1 days ago with 16 member flags
The "Occupy are Socialists," Megathread
  Posted 12 days ago with 8 member flags
Unpopular Opinions: Say NO to Human Rights
  Posted 6 days ago with 7 member flags
This is what needs to happen: REVOLUTION!
  Posted 14 days ago with 5 member flags