I wasn't even going to even touch this topic, but you know it is a normal thing in my community. I really do not see a big deal, but then again I am exposed to alternative lifestyle families on a daily basis, my 3 year old plays with kids in the park behind my house, goes to school with kids that are in same sex households. It is normal and no big deal, the kids are happy and live life like any other kids would. I suppose before I moved here however, maybe my opinion would be different. I am fortunate that my daughter is exposed, because she is growing up to be a compasionate non-judgemental person. If anything she wonders why it's just me and her in our house.

My point for expressing personal experience is that exposure is key to tolerance. So kudos to ABC for not caving into the majority.

Narnia

[Edited on 5-6-2004 by Narnia]

Originally posted by Narnia
...exposure is key to tolerance...
Narnia

[Edited on 5-6-2004 by Narnia]

While I personally think that they can show these things, however inappropriate I think it might be, parents should be the ones to prevent their kids from watching what they don't want them to in general.

I do, however, want to touch on something Narnia said about tolerance.

I find tolerance to be a growing epidemic. It has not reached negative points overall so far, but it has the danger of slipping into a world I don't wish to live in.

I personally believe there is a growing movement (possibly not consciously, but I'm sure there are some that are) to allow any behavior at all under the banner of tolerance. Where line between judgment of actions and judgment of people, is skewed to the point of nonexistence. A tolerance so acute, that there will actually be Intolerance towards those "unenlightened" that are not unbiased in their tolerance of anything and everybody.

After all, "who are we to judge anyone else?"

I've heard it making its way around. I worry, perhaps unnecessarily, but maybe there is cause for concern.

Just a thought and not pointed towards the "tolerance" spoken about here, but rather in general attitude flux in the past 20 years.

I get what your saying Jethro, I wouldn't want NAMBLA to be tolerated. Thats something I would enforce my own law on if I had to. I'm not suppose to judge, but I have to share an existance with all these morons running about. I however don't wish to force my beliefs onto anyone else, as they shouldn't do to me, I mean if there is no victim what is the crime?

Originally posted by Lysergic
, I wouldn't want NAMBLA to be tolerated.

Absolutely and I see this organization brought into the gay marriage rights debate all the time. The difference being, a homosexual relationship between two consenting adults is much different than a man in a relationship with a boy. It is illegal and should never be tolerated.

I don't know. Does showing nothing except cookie cutter mini-van "nuclear" units REALLY do anything for our children ? Most of these people are EXACTLY alike with zero traits to differentiate them from each other.

I would argue that sameness could be potentially destructrive to our children.

Originally posted by KayEm
I would argue that sameness could be potentially destructive to our children.

There is no amount of sameness in the world capable of striping humans of individuality. The only one that can do that is you.

I see it here, where I live (although it is by no means the norm, thank God). There is a subculture around here (maybe it's more than just around here) that is labeled Goth (which is nationwide I know). Around here, they are the fat kids, the weird looking kids, the losers, the rejects all banded together to be strange.

I find them to be generally lackluster, floating through life in a haze, from one job to the next and always writing horrible poetry or drawing terrible pictures for they are all misunderstood and deep. None of the jobs they fill require much if any skill or education. I find them to be generally extremely stupid and logic retardant.

Being different is something that is glorious in humanity as well as detrimental. What these Numb skulls don't get, is that expressing your individuality and uniqueness comes through your mind, not what you wear, or how #ed up you can make your hair.

I find it funny that they search to express themselves and their uniqueness by dressing different than everyone else (but here's the kicker), but LIKE all the others in their clan. In that they have become what they distain, members of a fold. They drink from the same trough of conformity we all do.

Acceptance, after all, is all any of us wants.

Krazy Jethro,

Although we are opposite ends of most arguments here, I do so enjoy reading your thoughts as you have a unique way of expressing your views, you even make it sound logical.

I am curious however how the ethnographic analysis of this group relates to Gay TV for kids. Is it the acceptance and tolerance point you are making?

Originally posted by Narnia
I am curious however how the ethnographic analysis of this group relates to Gay TV for kids. Is it the acceptance and tolerance point you are making?

Actually I was countering Kay's idea that sameness (in what can only be a visual perception) could be damaging to children.

My point was that humans are pack or family animals. We strive for sameness, even if we have to wear something to get it.

For example, I wear khakis and polo shirts to work when I am not wearing a suit. Although I loath khakis, I wear them not for work, but to be accepted by my clients as a vision of what they think a good agent would look like.

I also want to look good for the other parents in my neighborhood because I am almost 27, and my wife is only 24. We have 2 kids already and look young as it is.

Add on to that, that it is normally unheard of for people our age to have a family already, let alone be able to buy a full sized house. I seek visual acceptance, which is normally just a "foot in the door" approach.

The power of individuality comes from your mind, bearing the most powerful weapon we have.

IDEAS.

I only thought it was funny that these "Goths" strive to be radically different from the rest of the people by being "unique". But the idea is false, in that they only serve to create "sameness" with a different group WITHOUT being unique in thought.

If they truely were unique in thought, they would recognize that we seek acceptance.

If they had half a brain, they would know that to buck the system AND be personally successful, they would have to, as they say, "Fight Fire with Fire" and "Play the Game".

Originally posted by KrazyJethro


My point was that humans are pack or family animals. We strive for sameness, even if we have to wear something to get it.

Agreed

For example, I wear khakis and polo shirts to work when I am not wearing a suit. Although I loath khakis, I wear them not for work, but to be accepted by my clients as a vision of what they think a good agent would look like.

It is a skill of acclimation all of us do in one way or another.



The power of individuality comes from your mind, bearing the most powerful weapon we have.

IDEAS.

Well said.


If they had half a brain, they would know that to buck the system AND be personally successful, they would have to, as they say, "Fight Fire with Fire" and "Play the Game".

Play the game as you or I do? That is projecting our own values onto another group of people, which brings me to my point. It is ok to live whatever lifestyle you want so long as it does not harm anyone else. Man possesses the wonderful trait of free will, and that free will must be followed to satisfy ones own pursuit of happiness. Thus if a child is sheltered behind cultural walls, it will be that much more difficult to go off into the world of differences with blinders on.

[Edited on 6-6-2004 by Narnia]

Exactely Narnia, I child will find it difficult heading out into the world if it has been sheltered be it's parents since it was young. If I raised a child in this way, only allowing him/her to experience things that I personally accepted as good, then that chuld will grow up being very confused and at odds with the world.

Originally posted by earthtone
Exactely Narnia, I child will find it difficult heading out into the world if it has been sheltered be it's parents since it was young. If I raised a child in this way, only allowing him/her to experience things that I personally accepted as good, then that chuld will grow up being very confused and at odds with the world.

Newsflash, you would be hard pressed to "shelter" a child in this way these days. You can get away with it until they are old enough to understand. After that, the parents need to lead the charge to fight the influence of culture.

I find a lot of parents "miss the boat" in this regard, as I have seen the results of our culture bred youth.

I just feel sorry for the kids who grow up completely confused, not knowing what exactely their feelings mean, having their confidence shattered. It must be so hard to discover that you are Gay if you have spent your whole childhood oblivious to it, it will feel like a taboo, make you feel like a outsider/freak/alone. This isolations stems from peoples unwillingness to accept this different lifetstyle, and the lack of understanding towards homosexuals shown by society through stereotyping and blind hatred. Values of acceptance and tolerance towards any race, colour, sexuality and religion should be taught at any age.

Originally posted by earthtone
I just feel sorry for the kids who grow up completely confused, not knowing what exactely their feelings mean

You mean like most teens?

It must be so hard to discover that you are Gay if you have spent your whole childhood oblivious to it

Unlike the day people look down a realize they have a penis that does more than pees. I bet from that day on, life is clear. They want to head to the first nudie bar, and they've already mastered talkin' up the ladies.

This isolations stems from peoples unwillingness to accept this different lifetstyle, and the lack of understanding towards homosexuals shown by society through stereotyping and blind hatred.

Good god, where do you live? You have the view point of a 10 year old. "Killing animals is wrong.", "Why", "Because it hurts them and kills them."

Where is all this blind hatred? People do not have to "accept" behavior they believe to be wrong, nor will they ever have to. This does not denote "blind hatred".

Values of acceptance and tolerance towards any race, colour, sexuality and religion should be taught at any age.

Wrong, the values of the parents should be taught at any age to children.

KJ "Wrong, the values of the parents should be taught at any age to children. "

What if those values include that certain races are inferior? That people that speack a certian language are, whatever? That gays are evil? I think that those values should NEVER be taught to children. It's this type of ignorance that keeps us from getting allong.

Originally posted by intrepid


That gays are evil? I think that those values should NEVER be taught to children. It's this type of ignorance that keeps us from getting allong.

Indeed, intrepid. This boils down to plain dislike and fear. If it was anything else then there would be no problem right?

Originally posted by earthtone


Indeed, intrepid. This boils down to plain dislike and fear. If it was anything else then there would be no problem right?

Exactly. I grew up homophobic, Dad didn't say anything, but you could tell. Then I got to college and met gay people and thought, "What's all the noise about?" Just like me. I got past the fear and found some very nice people. I've only had 1 bad experience with a gay person, can't count how many I've had with hetro's.

Originally posted by intrepid
What if those values include that certain races are inferior? That people that speack a certian language are, whatever? That gays are evil? I think that those values should NEVER be taught to children. It's this type of ignorance that keeps us from getting allong.

What about it? So what if they do, it's their child after all. Even if it is wrong (which in some cases it is and some it's not), what can you possibly do about it?

The point is, is you can do nothing, as parents should be the most powerful influence in their childs lives. I can bet that if that was true now like it was more 30 or 40+ years ago, most would NOT teach that a certain group is "inferior".

Saying people are wrong does not mean they are inferior. Judging ones actions is not judgement against a person.

Neither are wrong in any way and I find that to be more important to teach children.

Otherwise, they will be ignorantly following the complete tolerance ideals much like they would the intolerance ideals.

Being blindly accepting would create people who could not recognize true evil.

Originally posted by intrepid
It's this type of ignorance that keeps us from getting allong.

By the way:

Do you mean "keeps us from getting alone" as in you and me? Or people in general?

Just wondering.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro

By the way:

Do you mean "keeps us from getting alone" as in you and me? Or people in general?

Just wondering.

I meant "along" and I was generalizing, not calling you out.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro

Originally posted by intrepid
It's this type of ignorance that keeps us from getting allong.

By the way:

Do you mean "keeps us from getting alone" as in you and me? Or people in general?

Just wondering.

I think it can be said for both. I mean what is the real issue here? Why do people refuse to accept the minority always , in every case in society? For those of you who can't accept or tolerate why not look back and see why you may not be accepting towards this certain group of people. There has to be a reason right ?