reply to post by stumason
Originally posted by stumason
Namely, the Europeans tend to come here for work, earn some money and then go home again.
The "asylum seekers" of the early century and the current Muslim population are here to stay.
So it's ok if they come here and then go home again, that's ok?
But if they decide to settle here and make a life for themselves, then this is some how an issue.
Asylum seekers are not the problem, it is the duty of Every
civilised, developed, first world country to take in people whose lives are in
danger, who are threatened with death in their own country just for existing or having differing opinions from their government... and I'm glad we do
is one of things we can be proud of England for.
Genuine Asylum seekers are no issue whatsoever, The issue is the bogus asylum seekers and Illegal
Immigrants.... those that have evaded the
screening process and have gained entry illegally and so on... that is the issue.
Genuine hard working people or people coming here to escape persecution are, in my mind, not a problem.
They are also ALOT more vocal and certainly more demanding of us to conform to their standards. This serves to generate alot more angst
towards them than is directed at the Poles etc.
Whilst you might say it isn't the immigrants "fault", this is to an extent true. However, it's the bheaviour of said immigrants (or at least a
vocal minority within them) that causes alot of the bad blood.
But exactly, It truly is a vocal minority... and then people say and generalise by saying all Muslims this and "yeah but muslims do this and don't
do that"... it's simply not true... as with any group of people/religion or whatever, you're always going to have a vocal and extreme minority, but
the trick is to remember that they do not represent the whole religion/people and nor should we label them all together.
As I said before, I don't think everyone who is proud of their country is a fervent nationalist or will have racial tendencies, some will, but the
amount is certainly not representative of the whole, and I always bear that in mind.
You have to think most of the problems started around or just after Sept.11th... and there was massive hatred aimed at Muslims in general.
They suffered a hell of a lot of abuse.
I worked with some guys who told me some horrible things... people spitting on them and kids being beaten up and women and themselves being attacked
and Mosques being attacked and so on.... and why?
Would we go around beating up all Christians if some religious nutter blew up a building? No...we wouldn't.
But because these people are perceived as "Foreigners" or just "Them" then it doesn't matter.
You have to see this as a two-way thing, Muslims have a difficult time integrating sometimes yes, but do you think it's entirely down to them being
unwilling to do so?
I think not.
I also agree that it is both sides spoiling the debate. The wishy-washy left for crying racism as soon as anyone opens their mouth, or the far-right
thugs who like to smack a "darkie" just because he has a higher melanin count.
Exactly, that's why there will probably never be a serious debate.
There is too much extremism and too much hatred from all sides.
Nobody can look at the issue subjectively because everyone has something at stake or some kind of personal/emotional involvement.
So it will always be a near impossible debate to have.
Anyway, as we know... the government don't allow the public a say on anything, they just go ahead and pass laws and take away rights and so on
without us having a say... Democracy indeed.
I know of incidents where individuals have been arrested for distributing leaflets opposing local mosques, for example. There was never any racist
intent, just a desire to protect local culture or what have you, but Fuzz will bust their door in and have them away on "racially aggravated"
charges, thereby scaring good, honest folk from even dicussing the issue which many have a great deal to say about.
Well I've seen these kind of incidents before too.
And It's hard to say anything without knowing the specifics of the cases you're referring to.
I don't see a problem with anyone or any religious group having a place to go and worship... I really don't.
Christians have their place, Jews have theirs... so why not Muslims?
So long as it adheres to noise laws, building regulations and any other "Laws-of-the-land" then I really don't see the problem.
I don't seriously buy that there are that many racists in the UK, at least in relation to the vast majority. Times have moved on, for the most
part. What people don't like to see is in the space of ten short years whole neighbourhoods changing character and even some becoming "no white
areas" where you actually risk physical harm should you dare to go there and be caucasion.
Times have moved on and now there are laws in place to try and thwart racism and racist abuse.
Doesn't mean that people are not racist, it just means people are less "Openly" racist.
Obviously out of the whole population, the percentage of people who are racist would not be vastly significant or the majority.... but I do think we
have a very long way to go.
I still think there are a hell of a lot of racist and ignorant people in this country.
Also pretty much every western country has undergone radical changes in social structure and in regards to their city/town landscapes.... It's
globalisation and Multiculturalism.... Go to any European countries... or Australia or America... It's the same there.
And again, if you have an issue with this, I personally don't, then blame the government or the EU for allowing it to happen.
The immigrants don't decide how many of them will come in and how they can change the landscape and so on... The government do.
I don't think this is racism, it is a desire to not have the place you have lived in change simply because a Socialist Government tried it's hand at
social engineering and importing many who would likely vote for them in the future.
Whether it's social engineering or The fact that we now have open borders with the EU or just Multiculturalism.... it's here and it's happening.
As I said, look at France and the massive trouble they've had for years... riots and looting... murders and so on.
We're not the only country that this is happening in.
But we are dealing with it in a much more civilised way and the fact that we have so many people from so many backgrounds and so many different ethnic
groups here, to me, is a great thing.
It's another thing that I am proud of.... Another thing this country has done well.... not the excessive numbers and not the sloppy way the
government has kept track of people, but just the general diversity, I love it.
I will ask if you've seen the Dispatched programme on Islamic extremist parties getting invloved in local politics and how closely linked they are to
some senior Labour MP's. Add to that the stated aim of these groups is Islamification of the UK and you get genuine fear from the populace for the
countries future. This is compounded by the seeming unwillingness of the Government to address these fears, whatsoever.
Not sure if I saw that or not.
I usually watch Dispatches.... how long ago was it on and do you have any links to the particular program?
I personally think the "Islamification of the UK" is just some first-class scaremongering... dreamed up to keep people ignorant and afraid.
And I know there are extremist groups such as the "Now defunct/under another name" Islam4Uk and other groups whose sole purpose is to wind-up and
scare the British public with tales of Sharia law and Out-breeding the populace and so on, In the same way that the BNP and EDL spead their respective
hatred and propaganda.
Neither group will ever get in to power.
Sharia law will not be imposed upon people in this country.
If someone commits a crime, irrespective of their race or religion, they go through the Judicial procedures of the UK, and until I hear that this has
changed, I pay no attention to any bollocks spouted by any extremist.
I am glad you don't think I am a racist, but I am puzzled by your attitude to nationalism. I am proud of this country, it's achievements and the
people who live here. I simply wish to preserve what is left of England, with it's ancient democracy, world reknowned Justice system, it's fabulous
history and it's reputation for fairness.
I've mentioned a few things I am proud of in a few posts above.
I'm proud how progressive a nation we are, how we are a nation that is Mainly a Socialist Democracy where workers rights are protected... where also
we all chip-in and help everyone out in terms of healthcare... the NHS.
There are many great things about this Nation.
But I'm not proud to be British/English or whatever I'm glad to be a member of the Human-race.... that's what I am... a human.
I'm not a Brit or an Atheist or whatever... I'm a human.