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DNA vs Melting Aircraft Metals: Who Wins?

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posted on Apr, 7 2010 @ 08:18 PM
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Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by theability
 



The plane flight 77 was quoted to have entered the building, and with the little debris left on the lawn, like tail section and wings, [which is highly suspect to being with] was consumed in the relative fires and destoryed, correct?


Incorrect. So that is kind of the end of the story. The plane did not melt or vaporize. To be sure there were probably parts that did, but for the most part that is incorrect. If I am wrong then prove otherwise. Plane and therefore DNA survived.


He's right, the plane didn;t melt or vaporize because IT WAS NEVER THERE.
Many of us would still like to know what became of the flight 177 and it's passengers and crew.

If I am wrong please prove otherwise.

[edit on 7-4-2010 by Asktheanimals]




posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 02:54 AM
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Originally posted by hooper
The plane did not melt or vaporize.


According to the official story what was left of the plane that was not shredded as it entered the building was destroyed by fire.


Plane and therefore DNA survived.


You have no evidence that the plane survived. If the fire was hot enough to destroy the plane it would have destoyed DNA evidence.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 02:59 AM
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Originally posted by hooper
And even if a body is torn into a million, literal pieces, intact DNA can still be found.


So fun and easy to porve you wrong with facts. NIST had to come with new DNA testing just of the WTC becasue of they way the bodies were destroyed?

www.nist.gov...
Due to the nature of the World Trade Center disaster, it quickly became evident that traditional methods for performing DNA typing were not likely to be fully successful in identifying all of the recovered remains. Traditional DNA ID methods depend on the presence of long, intact segments of DNA in order to accurately type the sample. The DNA in many of the samples recovered in this situation were so fragmented that these standard methods were ineffective.

In early November 2001, Dr. Robert Shaler, the director of the WTC DNA identification effort, contacted me and asked if I would be willing to develop some new DNA tests to help in the identification effort. I agreed to fast track our research efforts over the next several months and produce some test materials for his laboratory to try by January 2002.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 08:18 AM
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reply to post by REMISNE
 


DNA is contained in each and every cell of the human body.

If you can prove that wrong then get ready for a trip to Sweden.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 08:42 AM
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Originally posted by hooper
If you can prove that wrong then get ready for a trip to Sweden.


So are you saying that NIST was lying about having to come up with new testing for the WTC on 9/11?

What is your source that NIST was lying?





[edit on 8-4-2010 by REMISNE]



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 08:54 AM
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Originally posted by REMISNE

Originally posted by hooper
If you can prove that wrong then get ready for a trip to Sweden.


So are you saying that NIST was lying about having to come up with new testing for the WTC on 9/11?

What is your source that NIST was lying?
[edit on 8-4-2010 by REMISNE]


"DNA is contained in each and every cell of the human body."

Please show me in the above sentence the words NSIT or lying.

Thank you.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 08:56 AM
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Originally posted by hooper
Please show me in the above sentence the words NSIT or lying.

Thank you.


Sorry but you made this statment.

"And even if a body is torn into a million, literal pieces, intact DNA can still be found."

NIST made the following statement.

"The DNA in many of the samples recovered in this situation were so fragmented that these standard methods were ineffective. "

So either you agree that NIST had to come up with new DNA testing or you are saying they are lying.







[edit on 8-4-2010 by REMISNE]



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 09:00 AM
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Originally posted by REMISNE

Originally posted by hooper
And even if a body is torn into a million, literal pieces, intact DNA can still be found.


So fun and easy to porve you wrong with facts. NIST had to come with new DNA testing just of the WTC becasue of they way the bodies were destroyed?

www.nist.gov...
Due to the nature of the World Trade Center disaster, it quickly became evident that traditional methods for performing DNA typing were not likely to be fully successful in identifying all of the recovered remains. Traditional DNA ID methods depend on the presence of long, intact segments of DNA in order to accurately type the sample. The DNA in many of the samples recovered in this situation were so fragmented that these standard methods were ineffective.

In early November 2001, Dr. Robert Shaler, the director of the WTC DNA identification effort, contacted me and asked if I would be willing to develop some new DNA tests to help in the identification effort. I agreed to fast track our research efforts over the next several months and produce some test materials for his laboratory to try by January 2002.






Let me get this straight. You are using a document that shows how the DNA testing was done at the WTC to prove that DNA testing at the WTC was impossible?

Incredible.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 09:06 AM
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reply to post by REMISNE
 


New testing methods does not negate the basic biological fact that DNA is contained in each and every cell of the human body. No DNA, no cell. It is really that simple.

Now, if the cell wall is breached then the DNA can be effected. Still, you have one cell of a living organism you have that organism's DNA.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 09:22 AM
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Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
Let me get this straight. You are using a document that shows how the DNA testing was done at the WTC to prove that DNA testing at the WTC was impossible?


I can only go by the facts. NIST had to come up with new testing for the WTC on 9/11 to ID all the bodies.

Unless you are trying to state that NIST was wrong or lying about needing new testing to be able to ID the bodies at the WTC on 9/11.



[edit on 8-4-2010 by REMISNE]



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 09:24 AM
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Originally posted by hooper
New testing methods does not negate the basic biological fact that DNA is contained in each and every cell of the human body. No DNA, no cell. It is really that simple.


But the fact remains that NIST had to come up with new testing to ID the bodies on 9/11.


Now, if the cell wall is breached then the DNA can be effected. Still, you have one cell of a living organism you have that organism's DNA.


You also keep forgetting the fact that heat destroys DNA evidence and there were severe fires on 9/11.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 09:25 AM
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Originally posted by REMISNE

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
Let me get this straight. You are using a document that shows how the DNA testing was done at the WTC to prove that DNA testing at the WTC was impossible?


I can only go by the facts. NIST had to come up with new testing for the WTC on 9/11 to ID all the people.

Unless you are trying to state that NIST was wrong or lying about needing new testing to be able to ID the people at the WTC on 9/11.



[edit on 8-4-2010 by REMISNE]


I'm saying that the document you posted seems to prove that DNA testing was carried out, and with success. I thought you were agreeing with the OP who believes this to be false.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 09:30 AM
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Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
I'm saying that the document you posted seems to prove that DNA testing was carried out, and with success. I thought you were agreeing with the OP who believes this to be false.


The problem is that the new tessting was not ready untill after the beginning of 2002, AFTER lists of bodies IDed were released.

How could the bodies have been IDed BEFORE the new tests were ready?



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 09:46 AM
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Originally posted by REMISNE

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
I'm saying that the document you posted seems to prove that DNA testing was carried out, and with success. I thought you were agreeing with the OP who believes this to be false.


The problem is that the new tessting was not ready untill after the beginning of 2002, AFTER lists of bodies IDed were released.

How could the bodies have been IDed BEFORE the new tests were ready?


I don't know when the bodies were identified. And you haven't provided any evidence beyond assertion that shows this was carried out before then.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 11:00 AM
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Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
I don't know when the bodies were identified. And you haven't provided any evidence beyond assertion that shows this was carried out before then.


Well you could try looking at the dates on the list of Ided bodies.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 11:05 AM
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Originally posted by REMISNE

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
I don't know when the bodies were identified. And you haven't provided any evidence beyond assertion that shows this was carried out before then.


Well you could try looking at the dates on the list of Ided bodies.



I don't know where I would find such a list. And since it's you making a claim that remains unsubstantiated it's really up to you to provide such a thing.

Furthermore, it occurs to me that the "new style" DNA testing would not have been necessary for all victims, so some positive IDs could be made before early 2002.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 11:09 AM
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Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
I don't know where I would find such a list. And since it's you making a claim that remains unsubstantiated it's really up to you to provide such a thing.


Well i am tired of poeple not accepting or admitting when i post information, if you look it up you cannot say i just made it up or it does not exist.


Furthermore, it occurs to me that the "new style" DNA testing would not have been necessary for all victims, so some positive IDs could be made before early 2002.


Not all, like from the Pentagon but from the majority from WTC and probably Shankesville.



[edit on 8-4-2010 by REMISNE]



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 11:10 AM
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reply to post by TrickoftheShade
 


Maybe there is info out there, with the answers?

www.arlingtoncemetery.net...

911research.wtc7.net...

There are two, are probably more, if I looked harder....



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 11:13 AM
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Originally posted by REMISNE

Well i am tired of poeple not accepting or admitting when i post information, if you look it up you cannot say i just made it up or it does not exist.


So from now on you're just going to post whatever you feel like and tell us to substantiate ourselves? Given that you called someone a liar not so long ago for doing just that, I find this somewhat ironic.




Not all, like from the Pentagon but from the majority from WTC and probably Shankesville.


But then what are you trying to say? Some of the remains were identified before the new testing came in - most likely those with more intact parts - and some weren't. What are you trying to prove?




[edit on 8-4-2010 by TrickoftheShade]



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by TrickoftheShade
 


Maybe there is info out there, with the answers?

www.arlingtoncemetery.net...

911research.wtc7.net...

There are two, are probably more, if I looked harder....


Thanks for this.

I assume that traditional DNA testing was sufficient then.



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