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DNA vs Melting Aircraft Metals: Who Wins?

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posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by REMISNE
 


Well, the science of forensics existed long before DNA testing was so common, as it is today. Any or all of the following are ALSO methods employed (and this is NOT a comprehensive list of ALL possibilites, I would imagine):

www.forensicsciencetechnician.org...




posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
So from now on you're just going to post whatever you feel like and tell us to substantiate ourselves? Given that you called someone a liar not so long ago for doing just that, I find this somewhat ironic.


Well i am going to continue to post facts and evidence, but if you do not acept and admit to it then i have to call it like i see it.


But then what are you trying to say? Some of the remains were identified before the new testing came in - most likely those with more intact parts - and some weren't. What are you trying to prove?


As stated by NIST the DNA at the WTC would be the one that woud be difficult to do, but the new testing was needed at all sites.

Funny how the lists of bodies IDed that was posted is dated November 2001, before the new testing.

www.arlingtoncemetery.net...
Wednesday, November 21, 2001
Investigators have identified remains of 184 people who were aboard American Airlines Flight 77 or inside the Pentagon, including those of the five hijackers, but they say it is impossible to match what is left with the five missing people.



[edit on 8-4-2010 by REMISNE]

[edit on 8-4-2010 by REMISNE]



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by REMISNE


Well i am going to continue to post facts and evidence


Well, with respect, that's precisely what you're not doing.




As stated by NIST the DNA at the WTC would be the one that woud be difficult to do, but the new testing was needed at all sites.

Funny how the lists of bodies IDed that was posted is dated November 2001, before the new testing.

www.arlingtoncemetery.net...
Wednesday, November 21, 2001
Investigators have identified remains of 184 people who were aboard American Airlines Flight 77 or inside the Pentagon, including those of the five hijackers, but they say it is impossible to match what is left with the five missing people.


It was probably needed for them. Don't you think?



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 11:34 AM
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It is good to see this thread continuing.

As I might state, all cells do contain DNA, obviously.

What most are not focusing upon is that to use the DNA, the Cell must not be "contaminated", by various things, which were more than previlant on 9/11.


There are too many issues again to believe, such sucess stories were accounted in DNA testing during the course of 9/11 inquery.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 11:37 AM
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reply to post by theability
 


That doesn't seem to be backed up by fairly basic research. Badly burned tissue still contains testable DNA in many cases, as far as I can see.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
It was probably needed for them. Don't you think?


Just hard to comprehend how all the bodies were Ided for AA77 (except hijackers) and the Pentagon on Novemeber 2001 when the new testing did not come out untill 2002.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 12:03 PM
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Originally posted by REMISNE

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
It was probably needed for them. Don't you think?


Just hard to comprehend how all the bodies were Ided for AA77 (except hijackers) and the Pentagon on Novemeber 2001 when the new testing did not come out untill 2002.



According to what you just posted they weren't.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
According to what you just posted they weren't.


According to what i posted all but 5 bodies were IDed, without the new DNA tests.

www.arlingtoncemetery.net...
Wednesday, November 21, 2001
Investigators have identified remains of 184 people who were aboard American Airlines Flight 77 or inside the Pentagon, including those of the five hijackers, but they say it is impossible to match what is left with the five missing people.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 12:09 PM
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Originally posted by REMISNE

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
According to what you just posted they weren't.


According to what i posted all but 5 bodies were IDed, without the new DNA tests.

www.arlingtoncemetery.net...
Wednesday, November 21, 2001
Investigators have identified remains of 184 people who were aboard American Airlines Flight 77 or inside the Pentagon, including those of the five hijackers, but they say it is impossible to match what is left with the five missing people.


Oh man...

Two posts ago you said ALL the bodies were identified.

Now you revert to five not being identified.

Can you see how "all but five" is not the same as "all"?



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 12:12 PM
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Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
Two posts ago you said ALL the bodies were identified.


ALL ON AA77
Investigators have identified remains of 184 people who were aboard American Airlines Flight 77 or inside the Pentagon, including those of the five hijackers.

[edit on 8-4-2010 by REMISNE]



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by REMISNE

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
It was probably needed for them. Don't you think?


Just hard to comprehend how all the bodies were Ided for AA77 (except hijackers) and the Pentagon on Novemeber 2001 when the new testing did not come out untill 2002.



If you read the article they were talking about employing the new test for human remains at the WTC site. Not the Pentagon. At the Pentagon there was a finite and knowable list of potential victims. DNA sample and relative reference sampling were used. This is not possible at the WTC site were the list of potential victims is not as reasonably finite. There was always the possibility that new victims could be found, ergo the new testing method was employed so as to tag every piece of human remains, regardless of how degraded the sample was.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by hooper
If you read the article they were talking about employing the new test for human remains at the WTC site. Not the Pentagon. At the Pentagon there was a finite and knowable list of potential victims. DNA sample and relative reference sampling were used.


So your saying that there was no intense fire or building collapse at the Pentagon that required the new testing to help ID bodies?



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by REMISNE

Originally posted by hooper
If you read the article they were talking about employing the new test for human remains at the WTC site. Not the Pentagon. At the Pentagon there was a finite and knowable list of potential victims. DNA sample and relative reference sampling were used.


So your saying that there was no intense fire or building collapse at the Pentagon that required the new testing to help ID bodies?



Do you understand what DNA is and how it helps to identify human (and other) remains? How DNA is related? The process of elimination?



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by TrickoftheShade
 


Badly burned and contaminated DNA is unviable for reconstitution.

Next, cell trauma also, fragments DNA structure causing incomplete analysis, or inability to sample.

Last we know that all of the suspects and the victims were indeed exposed to: fires, debris, chemicals, explosions, etc etc, etc!

Ohh yeah not to forget extreme decelerations, that well destroyed planes and buildings right?

But I am suppose to believe that everyone's DNA survived except five people?

That is too much for be to chew. Too improbable for me to take.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by theability
 


Check this out, didn't read it yet...

www.ncjrs.gov...



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by theability
 



But I am suppose to believe that everyone's DNA survived except five people?


Again, DNA is contained in each and every cell of the human body. That means every human being in the plane and the ground is represented by approx. 10 to 20 trillion examples of that persons DNA.

So if there are say, 100 persons involved, that means the conflagration would need to completely and totally eliminate 2000 trillion examples of the DNA.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by theability
 



But I am suppose to believe that everyone's DNA survived except five people?


Again, DNA is contained in each and every cell of the human body. That means every human being in the plane and the ground is represented by approx. 10 to 20 trillion examples of that persons DNA.

So if there are say, 100 persons involved, that means the conflagration would need to completely and totally eliminate 2000 trillion examples of the DNA.



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 01:06 PM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


glad to see your here to keep me on my toes!



I have uncovered a few things for you as well today. That document you sent is on my desktop and I am currently reading, well prosing it first.


Interseting piece of news concerning DNA evidence and how trusting it can be!
www.nytimes.com...

From the article above:

They said that a library of 425 different DNA snippets would be enough to cover every conceivable profile.


Next article, read under "Development of artificial DNA"
en.wikipedia.org...

From the Article Above:

Additionally, and perhaps more frighteningly, the same researchers showed that, using a DNA database, it is possible to take information from a profile and actually manufacture DNA to match it. Worse, this can done without access to any actual DNA from the person whose DNA they are duplicating. The synthetic DNA oligos required for the procedure are used in probably every molecular laboratory.


Now what am suppose to believe again?



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 01:20 PM
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reply to post by theability
 


Your article is from 2009.

But, did you miss this?


Dr. Frumkin is a founder of Nucleix, a company based in Tel Aviv that has developed a test to distinguish real DNA samples from fake ones that it hopes to sell to forensics laboratories.



First, a company ( and I hope, I hope, I hope nobody comes along and yells "Aha! Israel, I knew it!!"
) that, yes is in Tel Aviv (sigh) announces a way to "fake" DNA forensics results, then "hopes" to sell a method to detect those 'fakes' to forensics laboratories.

So...assuming they did NOT manufacture a market for their own invention...

Is it reasonable to assume this was technology available ("fake DNA") in 2001?

And, is it further reasonable to assume that this was actually done??

Quite a long stretch of imagination, and assumption there.....


[edit on 8 April 2010 by weedwhacker]



posted on Apr, 8 2010 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by hooper
Do you understand what DNA is and how it helps to identify human (and other) remains?


Do YOU understand that things like heat destroys DNA?




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