America: The Grim Truth

Hmm. Worry about your country instead of obsessing about the US? Thanks!

Meh. I've lived in Britain and the US and have traveled to many countries around the world. Sure, the US has some problems - but so does everywhere else. I wouldn't move back to Britain if you paid me!

The US is a fantastic country in many ways. Of course, it could go downhill fast, and there are some worrying signs, but it's not all doom and gloom just yet.

Life is what you make it. I moved here to the US with no qualifications to talk of and we had virtually no money. We stayed with my wife's parents for a little while, both got jobs (not good jobs, either), rented a place, got better jobs, bought a house and now I'm working and going to school so I can get a good job and raise a family. We've had health insurance for most of that time.

Maybe I'm just lucky.....but to hear some people talk it's like we're living in North Korea or something. I don't get it

reply to post by superluminal11


Not filing taxes wont do very much to be honest. It would hurt a lot of people in fact seeing as though they would actually be getting money back from the IRS that has been taken from their paychecks. A real solution would be to have every citizen not fill out a W-4 when they do paperwork for a new job. Only problem there is, it's a requirement. No W-4, no job... The people are pretty much powerless when it comes to acting out against the IRS in a "paperwork" manner.

Though your idea could be solely rested on the shoulders of the people who end up "owing" the IRS on tax day. But then we're looking at fines, legal action, and a possible paid vacation at a federal prison. Fun fun!

[edit on 7-4-2010 by M0n0lyth]

reply to post by Curio


See, you are an example of what I am talking about...a success story. Many have never heard the phrase. "The harder you work, the luckier you get."

You, and me, and thousands of others are here and working hard and trying to have a life, and doing fine...my life is not perfect...no one's is. But look at all the opportunities around us.

I know immigrants that just 5 - 10 years ago had nothing...right off the boat..literally. Now they have homes, businesses, have kids in school...they work hard, enjoy life, are active in their communities... they did it. Some are hispanic, some are asian...they are all Americans now.

To those struggling... does your community college offer night classes? Can you work an extra job..part-time? Maybe cut sdome grass, or clean an apartment or home...maybe change oil...detailing work?

Ya know, I was a grocery store mngr...started part-time bagging and cleaning restrooms...anyway, when I left the store, I would go and work part time as a stable hand...scooping horse poop, cleaning pastures, and feeding horses...mon-fri.

My point is...no job is too hard or demeaning...work is work and money is money.
By the way, it's not all aboput the money... we give back to our community, do missions work here and abroad, donate time-food-money-even firewood to those needy in our area.

Enjoy all of the opportunities here in America.

reply to post by Damian-007


This is what happens when people don't do their home work to vote properly and bring the kind of people to work for them. It is always the mafia to install their own puppet. For example I read something on ATS which indicates that Progress which is an Auto Insurance Company is trying to bring their own puppets in every State for the position of Secretary of State. This is how they get favorable actions. If we don't fight it, we will be paying more and more for the Car Insurance and Road Taxes (yearly registration fees). Same is true with Banks and Health.

Well, being an American myself, I sadly have to agree with most of your post. That being said, I love my country too much to leave it. So I will stay and fight the corrupt capitalists and corporations that want to enslave us with their power.

This article is complete crap.

As has been pointed out, millions of people don't go bankrupt in total each year, much less because of healthcare.

Thousands of people do not die every year from a lack of healthcare. Hospitals cannot turn anyone away from care. Everyone has to receive it by law. Some may not get every available option of treatment, but that is no different than in a single payer system where those options are restricted from use.

This article is just an anti-america hit piece. The intent most likely is to make more Americans hate their country while knowing most people are too lazy to do their own research and check the facts. This person lied about all their facts and a simple google search would have told anyone that. Stop being lazy and just believing whatever is said in an article. If an article has sources, check them and then do your own research. If it has no sources such as this article, do your own research. Either way what this person says are lies, and most likely this thread should have the HOAX label put on it.

check the facts

It's an opinion piece.

Fact:

I was out of work, couldn't keep up with Cobra payments, lost my insurance. I got sick, needed emergency surgery, got a bill at the end for. 20K. Still owe em about 8K in fact.

Fact:

Ten years later, I'm sick again except this time I'm in Europe, same issue, surgery again, in, out in two weeks, no one ever mentions money, care was top notch in my opinion.

Fact:

I have a 35 hour work week and 5 weeks PAID vacation - And no one gives me slack for taking it either.

Simliar job in the States, 60 hour weeks not unusual, weeks vacation given grudgingly.

Fact:

Financially I make less, but quality of life is a million times better.


That's my opinion.

Live in Eastern Europe, moved here five years ago - no plans to ever leave. Had a small surgery at a small local clinic, two follow-up visits, total cost $140. At least as good as any clinic and many hospitals in the States, total waiting time for all three visits ran about 45 minutes. Not all of the clinics here are like that - full year coverage runs about US$900.

Total cost of living is running about $800 month - decent apartment, cook at home. Good beaches - 15-20 minute walk away; 5 minutes by taxi.

As an American, you can go anywhere almost anywhere you want with nominal difficulties. Most Americans have freedoms they never exercise. Since living outside of the United States... the only thing I've come to miss is the sheer # and variety of restaurants. Then again, I've become a much better cook. The only thing I miss is maple syrup, but occasionally even get a bottle of that.

Oh and know what else? Live outside the United States for 330-335 days in a calendar year and you get about $80k in tax exemptions.

It is better to be an American outside of the United States these days.

Originally posted by Merigold

check the facts

It's an opinion piece.

Fact:

I was out of work, couldn't keep up with Cobra payments, lost my insurance. I got sick, needed emergency surgery, got a bill at the end for. 20K. Still owe em about 8K in fact.

Fact:

Ten years later, I'm sick again except this time I'm in Europe, same issue, surgery again, in, out in two weeks, no one ever mentions money, care was top notch in my opinion.

Fact:

I have a 35 hour work week and 5 weeks PAID vacation - And no one gives me slack for taking it either.

Simliar job in the States, 60 hour weeks not unusual, weeks vacation given grudgingly.

Fact:

Financially I make less, but quality of life is a million times better.


That's my opinion.

If you didn;t have insurance and they gave you care that cost 20k to save your life, you should not complain about paying for it. In a single payer system you would have been paying for it your entire life in high taxes.

And what you say about 60 hour weeks being common and them not allowing vacation is BS. Thats not even legal actually.

More lies again. Yes its your opinion, but you may want to check them before stating them. To me, you just sound like someone that wants to exist and suckle off the teet of govt and actual producers. No offense, just what it sounds like with what you're saying. You expect certain things and you expect others to pay for them.

[edit on 7-4-2010 by johnny2127]

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
Let's see... I have a 3rdworld life style, a slave to the corporations, and don't live as well as a taxi driver in Singapore....OK.

I do have a house on five acres, own..not mortaged... but own the 45 acres of timberland/farm behind me, own land in a neighboring county, have a place at the coast on the intracoastal waterway of NC...paid for, have a daughter in college who will graduate in another 3 semesters with honors, only owe on my truck...the car is paid for.

Yeah, sounds like you are right... my life sucks.

You keep on talking about what you "own" .. that's the downfall of American culture. Materialism is NOT a way of life... its an addiction that will cause others harm in a long run. So I'm sorry to say it, what you think is a great life (owning materials) is not a great life style, go visit other countries, cultures... live with them and you'll see how much more life is then ownership of .. things...

I went to Cuba last year and lived with the people for couple of months, I was blown away what I was missing out on... guess what I own my house, car, toys, etc.. it all means SNIP all.. seeing a man sitting in a corner of the street laughing his ass of with his friend and playing music on a daily bases and enjoying life... seemed a lot more meaningful then what I "owned".

TRAVEL the world to learn other means of living your life... me and my better half decided to work here for another ten years, save all we can, learn all we can..sell everything we got.. and move to a small island far.. far away.. somewhere with no money, 40 h/week work, television, large government, etc.. and live the rest of our lives in "peace".

so i can related to what OP posted, the further you are from these so called "first world" countries... the more you learn to appreciate life... laughter.. happiness... without even owning anything! Try it... you'll be surprised what you'll discover!

When are you Americans going to realize that your existing system is just not working. You are so paranoid about maintaining the status quo, but it is falling apart all around you. Captain Queeg and the strawberries kind of a scenario. You are all so worried about universal health care, that you can't see everything else is falling apart.

If your intent is to keep the Rockefellers and company in the style to which they are accustomed so be it. They basically built this silly system and you guys bought it hook line and sinker. But don't expect the world to fall for this bull#, they are much more humanitarian and compassionate.

reply to post by AlreadyGone

Enjoy all of the opportunities here in America.

The opportunities are not the same where I live. I'd like to see you come to Las Vegas and do some farming. I have been in the process of starting a garden and it's been hell.

Get a job or two? Sure, right. Again, I'd like to see you come here and get one. I've been here now for just over a year and I had one part-time job, at 8 bucks a hour, and I got laid off from that.

Easier said than done.

As for health care, a recent article from the local newspaper says it's no problem for the illegal aliens to get dialysis - to the tune of millions - yet a buddy just went in for a staph infection and it will cause him to file bankruptcy as he also is not working, he's a Teamster and there isn't any work for him as tourism is way down, what this town survives on.

Just because I live in Amerika doesn't mean the opportunities are there like they are in other areas.

Originally posted by TheLoony
reply to post by AlreadyGone

 

Enjoy all of the opportunities here in America.

The opportunities are not the same where I live. I'd like to see you come to Las Vegas and do some farming. I have been in the process of starting a garden and it's been hell.

Get a job or two? Sure, right. Again, I'd like to see you come here and get one. I've been here now for just over a year and I had one part-time job, at 8 bucks a hour, and I got laid off from that.

Easier said than done.

As for health care, a recent article from the local newspaper says it's no problem for the illegal aliens to get dialysis - to the tune of millions - yet a buddy just went in for a staph infection and it will cause him to file bankruptcy as he also is not working, he's a Teamster and there isn't any work for him as tourism is way down, what this town survives on.

Just because I live in Amerika doesn't mean the opportunities are there like they are in other areas.

I feel like this should be a fairly obvious question, but why don't you move? You complain about the economy in one of the worst hit cities in America, then stay there. If getting a job and working was so important to you, why don't you move somewhere work is more plentiful?

It's now America the grim.
Nice thread.

This is just more anti-american propaganda. What a bunch of nonsense.
We have the worst quality of life because we don't have a single payer healthcare system? Riiiight...

What a f-ing joke.

Wow another biased, pessimistic article about America on the front page of ATS. That is new and original!

The article's points have been said countless times, again and again. Every country has it's problems and honestly, to say that America has the worst quality of life than other developed nations is very ignorant.

I mean come on, last week in London there was a riot over an American Apparel sale. English people rioting over an American product... Surely if American quality was as bad as the author said it is, no one should be foaming at the mouth over such American products. Right?

London Riot

This is getting ridiculous...

Whoa to thee that believes these isolated USA success stories to be the norm or anywhere near a fraction of a small percentage of Americans today. Anything but the complete opposite is true in the USA at this point.
And with so many people being parted from payrolls these days (and the numbers keep climbing) in addition to cancelled unemployment benefits, never has this type of rebuttal been more genuine.


I've been abroad too and have seen the reality that most of the developed world is living in comparison to our (USA).

What I usually use for the litmus test of freedom in any given country is the Beer Law. If I can walk down the streets of any given town with a open container of beer and not have to risk harassment or arrest by police agencies then it passes the common social freedom standards for me.

Laugh as you may with this silly little test but it works. With only a couple of gambling towns and designated festivals in the States, try walking down any given city street and see how far you get before you're risking a confrontation from an incensed police department for daring such a audacious display of freewill.

As to the medical problems here. I can vouch for the OP 100%. I once got sick in Eastern Europe. My wife made a call and a doctor with nurse showed up within the hour. I was treated, and given the prescription for less than a $100. Try doing that in the USA in any capacity.

At the other end of the spectrum try seeing somebody about a heart condition in the USA. A friend of mine attempted this recently. First, one must see a family practitioner, for tests. Can you say "money there"? Then he/she must give you a referral to a specialist. This usually takes about two visits and a demand for such additional treatment. Now you finally (weeks to months later) see a specialist. This is another 2 visits minimum in order to get a educated diagnosis. Now this is if everything with scheduling and red tape goes smoothly. Can you say "more money" And this is if the results turn out negative. Can you say "dollar signs" if you do indeed need treatment?

Now let us talk about emergency room visits. You can count on a $2-300 dollar drug test right off the bat. It don't matter if you tell them that you don't use or take them. Then chest x-rays, even if a completely different part of your body is injured. This will cost and additional $400 dollars of fleecing. If you stay for about 4 hours of periodic attention you are looking at a $3000 bill at the least. I know this because I've been there and done that.

I am not advocating this new Obama plan at all because I see it as a pure form of Fascism which is sponsored by the Medical Insurance Industry who will raise their rates to everyone once they've gotten us all on their lease but this is another topic for debate.

To return to the topic at hand. I know that there are some exceptions in Europe. But I've been to South America too and can vouch for their better standard of living too with the addition of more freedom. Mexico has better access to medical attention and prescriptions as well. A bottle of 60 antibiotic pills in Mexico will cost you about $10. In the USA you can multiply this by a factor of 10-20. This is why big Pharma has made it illegal for US citizens to cross the borders with prescription drugs now. And believe me the border control does check.

I haven't been to Southeast Asia yet but plan on doing so in the near future. Otherwise I'd give a report on them as well so please forgive the omission as to their current situation.

Once we sell our house and can line up the proper avenues of legal immigration to our target country we're leaving the prison called the USA. Some patriotic Americans may say "good riddance to you then". My reply would be "you have my deepest sympathies for your ignorance".

I just hope we can get out before the iron gate slams shut here and nobody can leave.

reply to post by warequalsmurder


Of course you neglect to mention that in all the countries and regions you talk about, there is no freedom to make of your life what you want. In America you can be what you want and make of your life what you want. There is not upward mobility in those countries. It is much more difficult to becomes successful if you want to be in those countries. So while you may have freedom to walk down the street with a beer, you don't have the freedom to make of your life what you want to. This is what those govt's want..... a drunk, powerless, unmotivated public that is therefore unlikely to rise against them.

reply to post by warequalsmurder


If you're able to afford to travel the world like you say you do, why are you complaining? You obviously have at least a "decent" life to be able to do so, whether it's business related or not. If it is business trips, I'm sure your health care plan is also pretty damn good!