Baby Bible Bashers, Christian child abuse?

reply to post by K J Gunderson



We will all receive either eternal life or eternal death - those are the two "choices", if you will.

There is no specific "punishment", that I know of, from God on sins - all sins are equal. There are instances in the history where the laws of the land have condoned stoning, burning, etc.

Mankind makes those choices, as he continues to do today - that doesn't mean that God condones them.

With that said, the Bible does say that some sins are considered "abominations" to God - and homosexuality is one of those sins. Merriam Webster defines that as "extreme disgust and hatred".

When I say homosexuality is a sin, I am not advocating putting the sin above any other, or below any other. We all sin and fall short of the glory of God - myself included - on a daily basis.

Most non believers seem to believe that believers think they are perfect people - when in fact, they/we are not - far from it. Being a believer is not the easy cake walk that most tend to think it is.

These "child preachers" in the videos is being displayed here on this thread, probably for the sole purpose of further trying to condemn/ridicule/persecute believers - it's nothing new - millions of people do it every day and will continue to do it until Christ returns.

But if given the choice - if it were your child, would you prefer him/her to be sneaking drugs/alcohol or engaging in sex - or "preaching" the gospel in the best way that he/she can.

That is the real question.

reply to post by nomorecruelty


OMFG, you need to chill out dude!! A little tolerance for people who don't share your belief wouldn't hurt either. It's not like you got any proof that what you think is the true/correct way...which is fine if it makes YOU happy. But you have to stop JUDGING others, it's not your place to do so.

If we still lived according to the old testament, Harry Potter would have been killed!! Friggin' Harry Potter...you know, the wizard kid...dead!!



Also, you have to stop stating that anyone who doesn't believe automatically turns into some dumb alcoholic drug abuser failure. My parents never forced religion on me (my mom's Catholic) because they wanted me to make my own choices...I did, I'm agnostic because I need proof to believe in something. And guess what, I'm not some drug addict failure. I got my MSc degree, got a beautiful GF, and live a happy life...so gtfo!!

[edit on 23-3-2010 by MrXYZ]

reply to post by K J Gunderson


Romans:

26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

reply to post by K J Gunderson


Leviticus: 18

22Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

The NLT is so very mixed up - no wonder you are thinking bad things about God.

What the Scriptures actually refer to is NOT God saying He is going to "miscarry" any baby - this is Hosea stating that he "wants" God to do all of these things to them - because of their sins.

See how reading a twisted version of the real Bible can mess up the meaning?

This is what the King James Bible (The Original Bible) actually says:

Source
And no where in this chapter does it say that God obliged.

Hosea 9

1Rejoice not, O Israel, for joy, as other people: for thou hast gone a whoring from thy God, thou hast loved a reward upon every cornfloor.
2The floor and the winepress shall not feed them, and the new wine shall fail in her.
3They shall not dwell in the LORD's land; but Ephraim shall return to Egypt, and they shall eat unclean things in Assyria.
4They shall not offer wine offerings to the LORD, neither shall they be pleasing unto him: their sacrifices shall be unto them as the bread of mourners; all that eat thereof shall be polluted: for their bread for their soul shall not come into the house of the LORD.
5What will ye do in the solemn day, and in the day of the feast of the LORD? 6For, lo, they are gone because of destruction: Egypt shall gather them up, Memphis shall bury them: the pleasant places for their silver, nettles shall possess them: thorns shall be in their tabernacles.
7The days of visitation are come, the days of recompence are come; Israel shall know it: the prophet is a fool, the spiritual man is mad, for the multitude of thine iniquity, and the great hatred.
8The watchman of Ephraim was with my God: but the prophet is a snare of a fowler in all his ways, and hatred in the house of his God.
9They have deeply corrupted themselves, as in the days of Gibeah: therefore he will remember their iniquity, he will visit their sins.
10I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.
11As for Ephraim, their glory shall fly away like a bird, from the birth, and from the womb, and from the conception.
12Though they bring up their children, yet will I bereave them, that there shall not be a man left: yea, woe also to them when I depart from them!
13Ephraim, as I saw Tyrus, is planted in a pleasant place: but Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer.
14Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts.
15All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters.
16Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.
17My God will cast them away, because they did not hearken unto him: and they shall be wanderers among the nations.

This does not answer either of my questions. How is causing a miscarriage different from abortion?

What is the penalty for homosexuality according you KJ?

People will label anything as abuse these days. Even if these kids are to young to fully understand what they are doing they aren't being hurt. They are enjoying what they are doing and believe they are making a difference, why not let them have that.Some people are extremely passionate about some strange stuff but that doesn't make it abuse.

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
King James Bible: The correct scriptures read:
13If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Again, this is speaking of God's judgement/punishment.

God's punishment is that they will live until they have natural death? In case you have not noticed, gay people live just like straight people and die just like straight people so how is that not an order? What would God bother stating that if you are gay, you will maybe live as long as anyone else for?

reply to post by MrXYZ


Harry Potter?? lol

Satan knows just how to present his agenda in the most subtle ways - most people aren't even aware that they are being programmed.


Have you watched the video about Lady Gaga - I know, I know ......he/she is the all the latest rage in society.

But do you really, really know what you're watching?

Harry Potter is no different - symbolism.........

What? Did you think satan was going to show up carrying a wooden sign that says "Hi, I'm satan, and I'm here to steal your soul from God"?

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
The punishment for homosexuality is death - as is all other sins. Death. That is by God when the person is judged - if that person has not received Jesus Christ as their Savior, as well as repented - which means turns from their sin(s).

I already explained/translated more than "one" in my other post - but to, again, sum them up - your "list" is mostly things that God Himself will dole out the punishment aka "death" on Judgement Day.

All people die. This makes no sense at all. You are going to have to elaborate on how death that we allllllll succumb to is a punishment for certain acts. Teach me.

What in the world is going on here? Creationist indoctrination and kid preachers. Listening to the museum tour guide explain the world is no more than a few thousand years old and suggest that dinosaurs were all veg eaters until Adam and Eve. Do creationists also think that the world is flat and the sun revolves around it?

I don't know what to say. There have been similar battles in belief systems in the UK and thankfully young impressionable minds are kept away from religious fervor, for the most part anyway. That isn't to say creationism isn't creeping into school curriculum. It is, but not to the same degree as the American education system.

My jaw remains ajar with shear disbelief.

reply to post by nomorecruelty


Wait...are you saying Lada Gaga and Harry Potter are Satan? And they are because Satan enjoys dressing up as little boys wearing wizard costumes...or as provocative pop stars to trick us because if he showed up as he really is (huge red evil dude with horns) people would go all "ohhhhh, you're Satan, nice try...you almost got me there, I almost turned gay".

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
King James Bible: The correct scriptures read:
13If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Again, this is speaking of God's judgement/punishment.

God's punishment is that they will live until they have natural death? In case you have not noticed, gay people live just like straight people and die just like straight people so how is that not an order? What would God bother stating that if you are gay, you will maybe live as long as anyone else for?

Homosexuals sometimes have very fruitful, and rich, lives - here on Earth. Look at Elton John for one celeb example.
A person's lifespan, gay or not gay, isn't dependent on sins - although I would imagine there are some people that God takes off the planet because of their evilness -

But we all won't be judged until Christ returns - which judging from what all is going on - and by reading the Bible's prophecies, it is coming very soon. We are put on this Earth to serve God, believe it or not. We weren't put here to just take, take, take and make "our" lives as rich and material as we could.

Everyone dies - that's a given. If a person dies before the return of Christ, he/she stays "asleep" - until Judgement Day - sort of like when you have surgery and are under the gas - when you wake up, it feels like you were just asleep two minutes, not hours.

Maybe I'm missing what you are asking? If so, I'm sorry - it's late and my eyelids are fighting back when I try to keep them open.

reply to post by nomorecruelty


The ones that reject Jesus Christ, that are on the planet right now, at at His return, will have to endure the tribulation, as well as God's wrath.

And that isn't going to be pretty - I pray I escape it.

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Exodus 22:17 (King James Version) 17If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins.
When man rewrites God's Word, he tends to mess up even the order of it? The KJ Bible's Exodus doesn't mention witches.

Well, I would have been willing to give you "the verses are off" but you just blatantly lied.

KJV you say?

EXODUS

22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

22:19 Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.

WITCH?

PUT TO DEATH?

Oh and to elaborate on the verse you did use according to your bible

22:16 And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife.

22:17 If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins.

So if I sleep with a girl whether she likes it or not, she is my wife - even if I have to pay her father. She has no choice and does not have to be my wife before I sleep with her against her will.

Slavery and Rape.

Tell me more about your bible.

[edit on 24-3-2010 by K J Gunderson]

Originally posted by Zorzenon
It is fitting though that these are children saying this and that they are preaching a very poorly thought out "theory" (if indeed an imaginary friend can be construed as a theory and not just rubbish).

I can't watch the video.
So could you tell me who the imaginary friend is?

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by nomorecruelty

 

Wait...are you saying Lada Gaga and Harry Potter are Satan? And they are because Satan enjoys dressing up as little boys wearing wizard costumes...or as provocative pop stars to trick us because if he showed up as he really is (huge red evil dude with horns) people would go all "ohhhhh, you're Satan, nice try...you almost got me there, I almost turned gay".

I'm not saying they ARE satan - but my guess is that they are being used by satan to sway kids away from God.

The blood sacrifices, the mason similarities, the pentagram in alot of the videos, all of the symbolism - beasts, horns, etc.

Beyonce, Jay-Z, and I'm thinking Timberlake, Madonna, etc - after reading that article and viewing the videos and information. It has been in our faces this entire time and most have missed it - I know I did - until now.

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Exodus 22:17 (King James Version) 17If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins.
When man rewrites God's Word, he tends to mess up even the order of it? The KJ Bible's Exodus doesn't mention witches.

Well, I would have been willing to give you "the verses are off" but you just blatantly lied.

KJV you say?

EXODUS

22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

22:19 Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.

WITCH?

PUT TO DEATH?

Oh and to elaborate on the verse you did use according to your bible

22:16 And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife.

22:17 If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins.

So if I sleep with a girl whether she likes it or not, she is my wife - even if I have to pay her father. She has no choice and does not have to be my wife before I sleep with her against her will.

Slavery and Rape.

Tell me more about your bible.

[edit on 24-3-2010 by K J Gunderson]

"Betrothed" means 'engaged to be married" - basically. "Spoken for", "engaged", "taken" - what part of that verse are you mistaking for "rape"?

The "If her father refuses to give her to him" part? That means her hand in marriage. And in those days, again, the law of the land, which was enacted by mankind - required the exchange of money/jewels/treasure for a woman.

What part of that suggests that God condoned it? That was the law of the land then - and those laws were manmade - not by God.

And how did I "blatantly lie"?

Originally posted by nomorecruelty

Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Covered that twice.

King James Bible: The correct scriptures read:
13If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Again, this is speaking of God's judgement/punishment.

Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

King James Bible: The correct scriptures read:
Leviticus 20:27 (King James Version) 27A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.
If God commands it, it isn't considered murder - just like if He says "put to death", sometimes it is speaking of HIS judgement and punishment - not what earthly mankind is required to do.

You got a star for this word parsing? God indeed encourages murder and the text you quoted is no different from mine. Are you even really reading this? Is god Nixon now?

Look at it like this. If I get to stone someone because of the sin they committed and it is ok for me to do so because God said so...then who decides that they did indeed commit that sin? Unless God shows up himself to tell you directly it is ok to kill someone, you are judging them which is a big no no even in your bible.

I cannot even believe you pulled such a cheap stunt and even got stars for this.

My version said that wizards should be stoned. You claimed that was a bad translation and a lie because what it really says is that wizards should be stoned. That makes sense. Then you justify it by claiming that it is not murder for one human to judge another guilty of sin and then take their life.

That is condoning murder no matter how you try to justify it because your God included that pesky "judge not" clause.

And the rest of your list is pretty much the same instance - "put to death" doesn't necessarily mean for another human to bring punishment upon the person - it could be God or His angels.

That does not really matter though does it? You just admitted that sometimes it is another human bringing punishment. Once is all it takes to make my point so who cares if they take shifts? How does that change anything?

Also, due to it not letting me type any more characters, I had to delete some from the bottom of your list - but most of them fall in the same instance as the "put to death" that I've just explained.

You mean as God letting them live until they die of a stroke at 90 or someone tossing rocks at them? Nice explanation.

Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

So clear it up. Is God saying that anyone committing these sins will die, around the same time as anyone not commuting these sins? At the same time he is saying it is ok for humans to kill other humans 'cause when God says it, it is ok? Really?

You have added in your interpretation of the words - the verse doesn't say, nor imply, that a "rape" took place, nor does it imply that the sex would be "against her will".

22:16 And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife. 22:17 If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins. So if I sleep with a girl whether she likes it or not, she is my wife - even if I have to pay her father. She has no choice and does not have to be my wife before I sleep with her against her will.

reply to post by K J Gunderson


LOL you either have yourself confused or me confused.......



I have no idea what you are asking now - I am trying, I really
am.

But I cannot make sense of what you are asking/saying about this
verse regarding the "rape" and/or "against her will".

Those verses do not say, nor imply anything about 'rape' or 'against' anyone's
will.

Sorry if I'm missing something?