Baby Bible Bashers, Christian child abuse?

You did indeed lie because you clearly stated that Exodus does not mention witches at all.

reply to post by K J Gunderson


You wait til she leaves and then call her a liar.
I would say if that's what she believes than that was the truth as far as she knew it. I know I wouldn't call her liar as she was walk'in away.
That's just hard stud. lmao

Scary videos of them kids though huh?

oh crap. you would not believe how hard. i'm laughing right now.

perfect.

[edit on 24-3-2010 by randyvs]

Originally posted by pieman
unless they start teaching their truth to your children, or you can prove they are wrong and harming their children, mind your own damn business.

...agreed, people should mind their own biz...

...afterall, the constitution guarantees freedom of religion... right?... well, yeah, sorta kinda... the guarantee is there but its just antiquated words backed up by not much of anything - because - if your religious freedom is tromped upon by society, you have to spend a boat load of money to get your case all the way to the supreme court and thats a gamble at best...

...i feel bad for the kids in those videos but its not child abuse, unless the parents are physically assaulting them into being submissive parrots... emotional abuse is a grey area still because, for the most part, its woven so deeply into the fabric of what it is to be an american...

...ie: imo, its emotionally abusive to perpetuate the santa claus hooey but a lot of society sees no harm in teaching their children that fantasy is reality... those kinds of parents also expect the part of society that doesnt perpetuate the lie to keep their mouth shut and "dont ruin it" for the kids that are being lied to... thats immoral, imo, but its not illegal...

...ie: imo, its incredibly offensive that genocidal maniacs (custer, andrew jackson, chivington, truman, nixon, johnson, reagan, bush1, bush2) are glorified but, reality is, a lot of americans are pro-genocide (as long as its not directed at them) and those maniacs are their heroes... those people are immoral / inhuman but its not illegal for them to be that way...

...my kids are up in their 30s now but, when they were young, i taught them my way of being and their dad taught them his way and we had to be vigilant to counter-act the crap that the majority of society taught / pushed... in that light, those that i perceive as fundamentalist whack jobs have just as much a right as i did to raise their kids however they see fit (as long as its within the sorta kinda wishy washy framework of the law)...

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by yodagod

 

It truly is scary the cult mentality of some Christian denominations and fringe groups but I'm not sure if it counts as abuse.

If it does than so should the morons who force their kids into sports or music based on their own desires and to live out their own failed aspirations or the ones that force their kids into show-biz (they had a TV show about it I think) - those parents are often just as scary and the kids often just as blissfully unaware of the damage being done.

...there ya go - perfect...

Originally posted by Mystery_Lady
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

gtfo?? Hmmmm So you are swearing at nomorecruelty, and therefore judging. All I can do is pray you find Jesus before it is too late, and you find your self where you don't want to be after you depart from this world. I pray that you will never have proof through seeing or experiencing any of Satan's demons, and that God will show you other proof. I gained proof through personal experience the hard way, and wouldn't wish it on anyone else.

I think tolerance is about having an open mind and respecting different opinions. Of course, healthy debate is the universal check and balance. Praying someone else will find jesus before it's too late is assuming their life is incomplete without him. You're making some very big judgments of your own here.

Originally posted by LarryLove
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

Hello, thought I'd jump straight in and ask if we could get back to the questions this post presents rather than lessons in scripture. I'm curious. Do you think there's a difference between a kid being groomed for preaching and one for beauty pageants? Are both acceptable?

Wow. Good question. I doubt my answer could be informed enough be really be any good but I think both are kind of sick. I cannot stand those little kid beauty pageants and I do not even really care for the teen ones either but hey.

I think this is kind of sick just in different ways. I mean, why should a child be preaching about sins they have no concept of? Sexuality is a big one. How can they even begin to spread the real word of the lord pertaining to something their bodies have not acknowledged yet? We go through puberty for lots of reasons. I am not saying you have to be 100 and full of experience to be a preacher but I think the children that should be looked at as innocent vessels should have a chance to grow and learn before they are forced to pretend to teach.

I think other posters are spot on that this amounts to abuse in that it will most likely have severe long term detrimental effects. Children are so easy to screw up in the head and there is a pretty set formula for getting them at least semi-normal and that is getting more and more iffy these days. I look at people like Willie Ames and other child stars that went from fame to God and found drugs and poverty and sin all along the way. Fame and religion seem like dangerous mixture anyone as power always seems to corrupt. Just look at the money taken in and KEPT by all these mega churches.

Add blind faith in something you cannot yet even begin to comprehend and than toss them in the spotlight...just looks like bad news to me. I could be wrong and they all might turn out great but I am still really skeptical of the idea of children spreading the word of the lord before they can truly comprehend all the sins and implications thereof.

What do you think?

Originally posted by randyvs

You did indeed lie because you clearly stated that Exodus does not mention witches at all.

reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

You wait til she leaves and then call her a liar.

That would be news to her then.

originally posted by nomorecrueltyAnd how did I "blatantly lie"?

Somehow she knew I was going to after she left and then responded to it on page 5 or, I already stated it before she was gone. I thought we just went over assumption?

I would say if that's what she believes than that was the truth as far as she knew it. I know I wouldn't call her liar as she was walk'in away.
That's just hard stud. lmao

[edit on 24-3-2010 by randyvs]

Too bad that is not what happened. Look, I can let this slide and we call it even but if you actually read back a few pages I had already stated it and she refused to actually address it before I explained it again!

Besides, this is not about belief. She said that Exodus does not mention witches in the KJV. I pointed out that it did. She said she did not look at that verse. Well then, why would you say Exodus did not mention witches if you did not even look?

[edit on 24-3-2010 by K J Gunderson]

reply to post by K J Gunderson


I have to agree with you. There is no justification for worshiping beauty and jesus at such young ages. There is an old Jesuit saying: 'Give me a child before he is seven...' meaning that a child's mind can be molded to set ways during these formative years. Which ever way you look at it, the parents of these children are making young adults out of them and forcing them into a world that they really aren't prepared for yet.

Originally posted by randyvs

oh crap. you would not believe how hard. i'm laughing right now.

perfect.

[edit on 24-3-2010 by randyvs]

Cool. Nice to make people laugh once in a while. In case you had not noticed, I can be abraisive and come across as someone ...opinionated? Let's go with that. I really do not mean to derail. I hope that my posts on the topic show I do I have an interest in this. I got Jesus Camp a long time ago and was watching it when I had 10 minutes here and there but never sat all the way through it. Now I am looking for it so maybe I would have more informed things to add here.

It is so easy to get caught up in religious debate but it is so nice to not have a thread turn into something about Obama, Healthcare, Liberals/Neocons, all that crap that everyone is really arguing over.

This stuff scares me because I have worked with a lot of people with mental disorders. There are two main types - genetic and learned. Everyone that has some eating disorder or OCD or whathaveyou can trace it back to about this age. Things happen to kids that trigger switches that may not show up for decades but are very hard to flip back once you finally see it.

I just think of the most basic example of a girl on life support from her fatal bouts of Bulimia because when she was 6-11 her mom used to tell her how hard life was for fat girls. That seems like nothing compared to a kid who is lead to believe that he is a preacher. Preachers are worshiped on a level that even goes against their biblical teachings but people always tend to believe this person has some connection to god. Why else would they go to see him instead of praying together or at home?

This is just my 2cents though.

reply to post by K J Gunderson


Listen the wife is giving me stink eye right now so you know what's up.
You think you're abrasive? I have dragon scales but I love a good laugh.
I'll catch up to you on the marra k?

Originally posted by LarryLove
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

I have to agree with you. There is no justification for worshiping beauty and jesus at such young ages. There is an old Jesuit saying: 'Give me a child before he is seven...' meaning that a child's mind can be molded to set ways during these formative years. Which ever way you look at it, the parents of these children are making young adults out of them and forcing them into a world that they really aren't prepared for yet.

I think that sums it up just right. They are not prepared for it at all. They are not prepared for anything.

You kind of got me thinking with that. If they are at an age where they can willingly believe in the Easter Bunny and Santa Clause - whether they are taught that or not, we can agree 7 year olds do often believe that I hope- then what good is their faith in god?

I would think if it was my church, I would want to know that my preacher knows and understands the huge difference between something as important as the lord and an imaginary mascot but I just do not think at 7 years old they are prepared for that kind of existential perception. Well put.

You can't deny the beauty of this...


Do you think it's truly sick that a child can do this????



He's incredible at tajweed.


And this girl is incredible too...



[edit on 24-3-2010 by seattletruth]

reply to post by LarryLove


Respecting differences of opinion can only be done to a point. Tolerance is about not killing each other or bashing each other over those differences. Every one has strong view points and beliefs, and sometimes those view points will clash. It really can't be helped.

For example: I see the Harry Potter books as evil and indoctrination into the world of witch craft done in a extremely subtle way. You don't. There is really no way to be opened minded at this point, so we practice tolerance which is stating points of view and not bashing each other afterwards.

As far as judging goes, who am I to judge. Praying for others to find Jesus is not judging anyone or assuming anything. As far as I'm concerned, I'm just as much a sinner as you are, and everyone else is. I know there is a real hell, and do not wish to see anyone go there. I also know I can't change anyone's mind, that only God can do that. I do know he gets a hold of people. Unfortunately satan gets a hold of some people also. Just like satan tried to get a hold of me, and nearly did scaring the living daylights out of me while trying. I knew afterward what I was facing, I knew then that God was also real. The only thing that protected me was the name of Jesus. That is why I pray for others to find Jesus. If what I experienced was even just an extremely small, tiny glimpse of what it would be like in hell, I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.

Originally posted by seattletruth
You can't deny the beauty of this...


Do you think it's truly sick that a child can do this????

He's incredible at tajweed.

Don't you think there is a difference between reading out loud and actively preaching and indoctrinating others as well as being indoctrinated yourself?

I have seen children read aloud from the bible and that never struck me like the videos in the OP.

Do you not see any difference?

reply to post by Mystery_Lady


Okay, but you are relating a life experience to your version of hell and somehow jesus was able to show you a different path. My objection is assuming all those that don't follow a religious way are already damned to the eternal fires of hell. That isn't tolerance, but judgment.

Now, Harry Potter. You have to explain that one to me. Do you think Philip Pullman is the same?

reply to post by K J Gunderson


Freedom of speech applies to all ages.

These kids want to be doing the preaching, they weren't forced into it.



BTW -- That was an extremely beautiful recitation, wasn't it?

reply to post by LarryLove


It isn't my judgment, but God's judgment that people will be damned to hell. If it was up to me, only satan and his demons would go there. I digress.

Harry Potter is better explained at this site: www.cuttingedge.org... Otherwise, I would only be copying what is on that site. Then I would run into quoting too much on this site.

PS. Cut down to the brief synopsis. I know the site seems a fanatical, but it does have a good break down of the real witch craft and the symbolism being shown in the book. Most people wouldn't pick up on it.

[edit on 24-3-2010 by Mystery_Lady]

reply to post by Mystery_Lady


WOW that website is a Joke, did the writers even READ the books?
Talk about twisting stuff, amongst a bunch of flat out blatant lies.

Originally posted by seattletruth
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

Freedom of speech applies to all ages.

No it does not. Children cannot get tattoos, piercings, make pornos, etc.

Likewise a child would not be prosecuted for yelling fire in a crowded theater as an adult would. Maybe you are elsewhere but these videos are from the USA and in the USA children do not have the same freedom of expression that adults enjoy. It sounds nice, even to me. It just is not true.

These kids want to be doing the preaching, they weren't forced into it.

How do you know that? You mean the same way Michael Jackson wanted to rehearse 120 hours a week when he was a kid?

BTW -- That was an extremely beautiful recitation, wasn't it?

Nothing about it was a recitation but I will give you a star for effort.

Originally posted by Mystery_Lady
reply to post by LarryLove

 

It isn't my judgment, but God's judgment that people will be damned to hell. If it was up to me, only satan and his demons would go there. I digress.

Harry Potter is better explained at this site: www.cuttingedge.org... Otherwise, I would only be copying what is on that site. Then I would run into quoting too much on this site.

PS. Cut down to the brief synopsis. I know the site seems a fanatical, but it does have a good break down of the real witch craft and the symbolism being shown in the book. Most people wouldn't pick up on it.

[edit on 24-3-2010 by Mystery_Lady]

According to the King James Version of the bible that I have been told over and over again is the only accurate version - as if there were such a thing - the sin you are speaking of requires death as punishment, not eternity in hell. The hell part is secondary to the fact that God calls for these people to be executed. So if that website is correct in correlating Harry Potter with this sin, then it is advocating that people reading Harry Potter books should be put to death.

Do you believe that or are we starting to tear out the pages we do not like?

A seven-year-old preaching the egalitarian, peace-promoting, socially progressive faith espoused by Jesus in the Gospels is one thing.

A seven-year-old preaching damnation based on cherry-picked Old Testament prohibitions, fed to them by their parents, is another.


Fundamentalist Christians are extremely vociferous in their protests against homosexuality, which is condemned in a short passage in the book of Leviticus. But where is this energy when it comes to decrying adulterers, thieves, or murderers, three classes of sinners whose respective vices break three of the religion's supposedly central Ten Commandments?

Why is there not a massive anti-adultery lobbying force in Washington?

And that's just the beginning. Where are the protesters with the signs reading "GOD HATES PEOPLE WHO WEAR CLOTHES OF MIXED FIBERS", as Leviticus 19:19 implies there ought to be? Why do Fundamentalist Christians not rail against those who fail to keep a Kosher diet, or fail to make proper animal sacrifices? These restrictions come from the very same part of the Bible that condemns Homosexuality.

Intentionally induced abortions aren't even mentioned in the Bible, so I'm not going to focus on that in this post. What I would like to discuss (or prattle on about) further is the queer (I'm sorry) Fundamentalist Christian obsession with homosexuality.

No other major religion has ever had so much hatred for one class of people, excluding perhaps the membership of some other religion or race, as modern American Fundamentalist Christianity has for gays. Yet there's not one whit more Biblical justification for this than there would be for the massive, widespread, and politicized hatred of people who eat shellfish.

It's hypocrisy, at best, and at worst it's a sociopathic, psychosexual malformation endemic to the Christian faith (or at least its more provincial, most fundamentalist members).

According to my personal understanding of the Gospels, Jesus of Nazareth lived and died to spread the message that the way to God was not through acts of ritual, public demonstrations of faith, or strict adherence to dogma; it was through goodness. The oppressed were by nature His friends, and their oppressors His enemies.

I am not a Christian, but I am familiar with the Bible. I have studied, to varying degrees, nearly every religion with more than a few thousand followers (and some with less) from Sumer to Berkeley. The membership of only one of them has ever focused on a single issue like this (or, really, a pair of issues, being abortion and gay rights/the forbidding thereof), unless that issue were a matter of what God to believe in. I say 'the membership' because these issues, despite what their proponents claim, are not deeply rooted in the text of the Bible; they are largely inventions of the modern world, and are not as heavily condemned by scripture as numerous other moral and social issues.

This would all make more sense to me if Jesus Himself had been a vocal anti-gay activist, but he never mentions the issue once. Only the ever-tolerant St. Paul, in all of the New Testament, mentions homosexuality, and even then it is in passing, listed amongst a host of other terrible things the Ungodly do. This is all well and good, as not everyone is particularly interested in achieving St. Paul's ideals of Godliness, and he can make them as strict as he likes, but he doesn't mention getting trashed and playing "smear the queer" with his redneck Apostle buddies; this seems to be a more recent, American invention, and one not as strongly rooted in Biblical lore as its practitioners seem to believe.

In my humble opinion, Christianity should be more about Christ and less about Paul. It should be more about the message of pacifist, socially egalitarian philosophy preached by Jesus in the New Testament than the long lists of prohibitions and punishments ascribed by the pre-Christian mystics and tribal despots that oversaw the writing of the Old. It should be more about love, and less about hate. But that seems kinda obvious, doesn't it?



I have a few pages of stuff I'd very much like to say about Creationism as well, but I'll save it. I'm sure I'll see that museum video again someday, and it'll set me off again.

[edit on 24-3-2010 by The Parallelogram]

[edit on 24-3-2010 by LarryLove]