Why Blacks embrace their opressors God

Well, it seems some have the facts without the context. Yes, it's true Ethiopia is the first Christian nation, however the majority of Black people in America are descendants of west Africans and Not east Africa (where Ethiopia is located). The majority of these west Africans practiced religions like Osha of the Youruba and Nganga of Angola, with the remaining 20-30% or so largely Muslim. There are still gravestones of slaves in the south with Arabic writing on them. So, Christianity was indeed forced down the necks of the American slave, furthermore American slavery was on an entirely different level than previously seen. Sure, a lot of Europeans were indentured servants for seven years or so when they came here, however they were able to remain with their families, their women were not raped with impunity for the law, they still had legal rights the African did not have. It's in your constitution, an African is 3/5 of a human being. Today the African in America has more problems than anyone except for the NATIVE American. Don't believe there was a conscious system to this inhumanity?
www.thetalkingdrum.com...
Interesting, the people they stole this country from are almost non-existent at this point and the people they used to build the stolen property are treated as property themselves. Then you get blamed for it because after 50 years of "progress" if your not the next astronaut/president/scientist it's your fault for being "lazy". The way I see it is the huge racial divide is perpetuated by economic factors (if my great grandfather was poor and uneducated and so was my grandfather and dad only has a h.s. diploma and is still broke how am I supposed to build the next revolution in computing in a garage I don't have?) and the media owned by caucasians who only put out negative images and archetypes of "blackness". Have you seen the movie precious? Why couldn't there have been the struggles of a female black scientist dealing with some problem? The lack of family structure only escalates the problem(this is a problem in ALL of American society today regardless of skintone). If dad isn't around and mom has to work and jr. is watching b.e.t all day what does .jr learn about whats expected of him in society? To feel a connection with the life-force of the universe is the greatest feeling. Whether through a religion or just your own connection with a houseplant or puppy the energy of life can't be denied. Religion has always been used to control people but if you cut through the scary parts of the "holy" books there are profoundly beautiful truths there. Or just read the TAO TE CHING!

edit to add: the "lynch" in merril-lynch is a direct descendant of "willie".


[edit on 16-3-2010 by siahchi]

Also, I'd just like to state for all you "civilized" type people on here... Just because someone doesn't build a sistine chapel or space shuttle doesn't make them backward or in need of your "civilizing". Maybe, the people who live in the parts of the world that are closest to paradise, the bountiful tropics and the closest to nature, don't want to lose that. Civilization has brought you poisened water and air, cancer in babies and weapons that can destroy the entire solar system, not to mention arrogance and the de-humanization of everyday life. Perhaps, somewhere there is a person in a hut shaking his head wondering at those "savages" who built the tank that destroyed his village, and how backward THEY are. Shoes are made for both feet, technology is not some mark of superiority or sophistication. In fact, if your fat pig boss with erectile dysfunction and no culture is the height of what humanity was put here for, then we are going to go extinct very soon. Nature doesn't produce useless consumers such as that, western "civilization" does.

reply to post by siahchi


Hello my lord, excellent posts that is also what i think. Living in harmony not taking more than you need is far more intelligent than that of the current mind set in the western world today, of course this does not apply to everyone there are good and bad everywhere and some even do not know what they are doing. Believing that they are doing the right thing, because that is what they have been educated into and so the gears of the machinery turns. Thankfully more people are more inclined to listen and discuss this now, admittedly not many but its a start and a light in the darkness showing that the old ways still survives in all the confusion is truly amazing and brings a vision of a better future . you mention some west African traditions do you have some links so that I may read about them thank you .

reply to post by a-being-?


Hello ntr (divine attribute of the creator/creation)! Unfortunately, information about traditional African religion is still scant, even on the web. Most of what I know is through personal experiences and conversations. I did however turn up a few websites that might be a good start:

www.orishanet.org...

www.inquiceweb.com...

Try maybe typing "orisha" or "dahomy" "yoruba", "fon" into google. I don't want to derail this thread into a discussion of traditional African spirituality (maybe i'll start a thread on the topic) so if you have any specific ?'s feel free to u2u me!



[edit on 16-3-2010 by siahchi]

reply to post by ButterCookie

That same argument can be said to indians(south of the border) who are catholic. And on the stereotype of killers,thugs and blah blah being accepted.
And I'm not bashing you per say, but to question the op, you may want to question why anyone accepted an invader or conqueror as their master, leader, whatever

I'm gonna have to come back to this page when I get to a full keyboard, G1 typing gets tiring

[edit on 17-3-2010 by ahmonrarh]

reply to post by mahtoosacks


As an educator, reading your post embodies for me why students are often banned from using Wikipedia as a source. Although Christianity began around 43AD, what you neglected to mention is that it ended around 700AD with the onset of the Arab conquest. This is relative to North Africa. You speak of Africa as though it is a country and not a vast continent. You made no mention of the other regions of the continent where ancestral worship and other indigenous beliefs were practiced. When was Christianity re-introduced? With the appearance of European colonial conquerors and missionaries.

Consider this: if you were marched from east Africa to the coast, then you were subjected to sub-human conditions over the course of months of travel at sea, only to arrive at land to find yourself in a foreign place with a foreign language you would be ripe for enslavement--mentally, physically, emotionally and spiritually. What choice did the slaves really have? The Native Americans, however, were not so easily enslaved. Why do you think the colonists sought out slave labor in the first place? Yes, there were white indentured servants and slaves throughout history in many nations. However, what makes the enslavement of Africans beyond reproach is that any link to history, culture, language, religion, lineage, family, etc. was systematically eradicated. A people with no knowledge of who they are gives rise to the social ills that are commonly found in the African American community.

Do some research people. Or, at the very least read some Howard Zinn--may he rest in peace.


BTW, I read ATS almost daily. I am African American and non-religious. I signed up today just so that I could reply to the comments to the original post. I'm not saying I agree with everything the OP has written, but I have recognized over the years that the "conspiracy" community often seems to lack diversity. I hope to contribute more often in future, as I have learned much from all of you and I really enjoy what ATS has to offer. Respect.

reply to post by a-being-?

First of all I have stated that I BELIEVE that the west and Europe stole the knowledge from the African continent as well as the Indian continent , this is my personal opinion based of what I have come to believe .

And there are plenty of people who BELIEVE that Egyptian culture was created by white people from Europe, and their racist ideology is really not any different from yours.

Just because you embrace intellectualized racism doesn't make you an intellectual, just a racist who uses, or follows, a well developed rationalized reason for embracing racism. In my opinion, you are no better than the NAZIIs or the KKK.

Here is the reality, most of the technology you and I, and everyone else on the planet enjoys was developed over the last five hundred years. Almost all of this technology was developed in Europe, advanced metallurgy, the internal combustion engine, the harnessing of electricity, and all the other technologies which you and everyone on the planet enjoys daily.

They found a city in what is now day Turkey that is 9,000 years old, and has numerous copper tools. Nobody knows who created all the technology back then, only a racist would claim my people did it, and your ancestor stole all of your technology from us, and the brown people of the world.

Ancient Egypt was a multiracial society. Go to the museum and look at the artifacts from ancient Egypt, you will see black, brown, and white people being served by black, brown, and white people.

Instead of clinging to this racist ideology how you were robbed, why don't you study some history n your own, and learn how and why Europeans succeeded on their own.

By the way, it would be the Muslims who were trying to conquer Europe who wound up getting their butts kicked for messing with the wrong people.

reply to post by siahchi

The majority of these west Africans practiced religions like Osha of the Youruba and Nganga of Angola, with the remaining 20-30% or so largely Muslim.

WHAT?

Islam is a religion native to Africa?

Sorry, but if you think this than you are completely ignorant of history. Muslims have been raping Africa for centuries, long before white Europeans ever dabbled in slavery, and the rape of Africa by Arab Muslims continues to this day.

Most of the racist versions about how whitey stole it all from the black and brown people are written by Muslims. Most likely to divert attention away from the history of how much more abusive Islam has been to black Africa than white ever were.

To this very moment, as I write this, Muslim Arabs are busy conquering Africa, and their goal is to completely wipe out black people.

You should look into what was done to black males when they were taken into slavery by Muslims.

africanhistory.about.com...

Slaves were obtained through conquest, tribute from vassal states (in the first such treaty, Nubia was required to provide hundreds of male and female slaves), offspring (children of slaves were also slaves, but since many slaves were castrated this was not as common as it had been in the Roman empire), and purchase. The latter method provided the majority of slaves, and at the borders of the Islamic Empire vast number of new slaves were castrated ready for sale (Islamic law did not allow mutilation of slaves, so it was done before they crossed the border). The majority of these slaves came from Europe and Africa -- there were always enterprising locals ready to kidnap or capture their fellow countrymen.

This is why there is not a black population the Middle East.

Siachi, since you put such stock in what the Yoruba has to say about the issue, ask them who Lamurudu is. Some of them know.

Christianity is older than any indigenous African religion, or anything from Egypt.

I'll tell you why--and I'm speaking with complete respect here.

Christianity is based on the life and deeds of the one who built the Tower of Babel--the first Communist. That's why it smells so much like Marxism.

The tower of Babel civilization was built soon after the flood. The only religion that could be older had to be before the flood.

oh, and there's ample evidence that they had a more advanced civilization than the one of today--planes, electricity nuclear bombs--the whole works

Originally posted by tdogg1
Siachi, since you put such stock in what the Yoruba has to say about the issue, ask them who Lamurudu is. Some of them know.

Christianity is older than any indigenous African religion, or anything from Egypt.

I'll tell you why--and I'm speaking with complete respect here.

Christianity is based on the life and deeds of the one who built the Tower of Babel--the first Communist. That's why it smells so much like Marxism.

The tower of Babel civilization was built soon after the flood. The only religion that could be older had to be before the flood.

oh, and there's ample evidence that they had a more advanced civilization than the one of today--planes, electricity nuclear bombs--the whole works

Well to save the best till last where is the evidence for the advanced civilisation? The plane has recently been debunked. Nuclear bombs need evidence electricity may have been batteries but again batteries do not make advanced civilisations.

Anyway the Lamurudu is a just a theory from daystar press. It has not been proven nor has Lucas' s theory. Ask a Babalawo.
There may be one here!

It may be that Odudua did come from egypt but then a claim from pre_Islamic Arabia may be the source.
Sorry the idea of Xtianity being older than Egypt makes no sense. Especially when the Egyptian myths and iconography indicate the antiquity of Egyptian religion in comparision to the Xtian religion.

T

Originally posted by Tiger5


Well to save the best till last where is the evidence for the advanced civilisation? The plane has recently been debunked. Nuclear bombs need evidence electricity may have been batteries but again batteries do not make advanced civilisations.

Anyway the Lamurudu is a just a theory from daystar press. It has not been proven nor has Lucas' s theory. Ask a Babalawo.

There may be one here!

It may be that Odudua did come from egypt but then a claim from pre_Islamic Arabia may be the source.
Sorry the idea of Xtianity being older than Egypt makes no sense. Especially when the Egyptian myths and iconography indicate the antiquity of Egyptian religion in comparision to the Xtian religion.

T

If you find the suggestion that there were advanced civilizations in the past so laughable, what are you doing on a site like this?

There's plenty of documental and physical evidence for the claim. Because you don't give it credence don't mean it's not there.

As the bible states:there's nothing new under the sun. Most of the greatest inventions of this Age came from people dabbling in the occult--getting info from unseen entities. Take that statement as you will.

The person I addressed my post to mentioned his respect for the Yoruba and the antiquty of their beliefs. Hence statement :ask a yoruban. You can ask a babalawo too. Some will tell you the same thing.

Not only is xtianity older than Egypt, so is Babylon. And even Babylon is not the oldest civilizatio of the earth.

reply to post by tdogg1

"If you find the suggestion that there were advanced civilizations in the past so laughable, what are you doing on a site like this? "

WSel actually I am beginnin gto wonder about this thread in particular and ATS in general. Thanks for asking.

However ATS is free and some conspiracies are by far more credible than others. I particular like the mix of scepticism and conspiracy beliefs.

Being on ATS does to entail believing in every conspiracy posted here.

Anyway Do look at the history of Xtianity and compare it with the age of the egyptian dynasties and draw your own conclusion.

The Yoruba Awo frequently do not even understand the meanings of certain ifa phrases muchless lamurudu. Daystrar press is not reliable as most awo and academics do not believe tghe etymology of the word.





[edit on 17-3-2010 by Tiger5]

There are signs of civilizations are older than Egypt.

www.smithsonianmag.com...

Predating Stonehenge by 6,000 years, Turkey's stunning Gobekli Tepe upends the conventional view of the rise of civilization.

www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk...

The site provided the archaeological world with several 'first's' including animal husbandry, woven cloth, smelted copper Terrazzo (stone pieces pressed into a cement base) floors and several female figurines among the finds representing some of the earliest traces of the Mother Goddess cult in the region.

Goddess worship, now that is my idea of religion.

Originally posted by Tiger5
reply to post by tdogg1

 

"If you find the suggestion that there were advanced civilizations in the past so laughable, what are you doing on a site like this? "

WSel actually I am beginnin gto wonder about this thread in particular and ATS in general. Thanks for asking.

However ATS is free and some conspiracies are by far more credible than others. I particular like the mix of scepticism and conspiracy beliefs.

me: I didn't ask why you were skeptical, I asked why you find the idea so ridiculous on a site like this.

Being on ATS does to entail believing in every conspiracy posted here.

me: I didn't ask you to believe it, I asked why would it strike you as so hilarious on a site like this.

Anyway Do look at the history of Xtianity and compare it with the age of the egyptian dynasties and draw your own conclusion.

me:Nimrod/Osiris/Horus/Jesus. Babylon/Egypt/Europe=Christianity

The Yoruba Awo frequently do not even understand the meanings of certain ifa phrases muchless lamurudu. Daystrar press is not reliable as most awo and academics do not believe tghe etymology of the word.

me:I don't know how you know what somebody else understands but I never claimed all Yorubans would agree with me. Some do, some are like you--claiming they got the history from the Arabs.

me:I don't know what you are talking about with the daystrar business, but I never heard of it, never got any information from it. I got it from Yorubans discussion the issue themselves



[edit on 17-3-2010 by Tiger5]

Originally posted by speakslove9
reply to post by mahtoosacks

 

As an educator, reading your post embodies for me why students are often banned from using Wikipedia as a source. Although Christianity began around 43AD, what you neglected to mention is that it ended around 700AD with the onset of the Arab conquest. This is relative to North Africa. You speak of Africa as though it is a country and not a vast continent. You made no mention of the other regions of the continent where ancestral worship and other indigenous beliefs were practiced. When was Christianity re-introduced? With the appearance of European colonial conquerors and missionaries.

Then you are a poor educator.

Christianity was not wiped out by the Muslims. Christians continued to exist but were taxed by the Muslim conquerors. Christian minorities have existed in Muslim nations since they became Muslim nations. The Coptic, Ethiopian and Assyrian churches are good examples of this.

How can this equation be correct or even proven??

Nimrod/Osiris/Horus/Jesus. Babylon/Egypt/Europe=Christianity

Jesus is central to Xtianity. I am completely unsure what your equation seeks to prove .

FYI I first heard of the lamurudu hypotheses from Modup Odudoye who is the owner of daystar press in Nigeria,

I know enough Babalawo to confidently claim the senior ones do not accept Lamurudu hypothesis. It is a matter of national proide to put ile Ife at the centre of the world as that was where the hen touched downand scattered the sand that was stored in the igbin shell.

The Actual odu came from arabia and foillow the arabic trade routes again I can give you the correct references on request. But start with MAUPOIL then look to to peer reviewed works.

I would love to discuss Nigeria because that is not your territory.

You have also seen of temples that predate even egypt.

There is evidence all you offer is speculations so far

Originally posted by Tiger5
How can this equation be correct or even proven??

Nimrod/Osiris/Horus/Jesus. Babylon/Egypt/Europe=Christianity

Jesus is central to Xtianity. I am completely unsure what your equation seeks to prove .

me: the link was just to show what some ancient documents speaks about the progression of the god now called Jesus, from his beginning to now.
You are aware that different eras , cultures, and peoples, will take the same god and change his name and sometimes his/her entire energy/legacy i.e. "prosperity gospel?

FYI I first heard of the lamurudu hypotheses from Modup Odudoye who is the owner of daystar press in Nigeria,

me: okay

I know enough Babalawo to confidently claim the senior ones do not accept Lamurudu hypothesis. It is a matter of national proide to put ile Ife at the centre of the world as that was where the hen touched downand scattered the sand that was stored in the igbin shell.

me: I can agree with that. I already said it. But those who don't accept it don't negate the oppinions of those who do.

The Actual odu came from arabia and foillow the arabic trade routes again I can give you the correct references on request. But start with MAUPOIL then look to to peer reviewed works.

me: I can agree with this because at the time the Middle East was the Capital of the planet. This all happened during the break up of the Tower of Babel. People spreaded out everywhere. Has nothing to do w


I would love to discuss Nigeria because that is not your territory.

You have also seen of temples that predate even egypt.

There is evidence all you offer is speculations so far

need to finish:

Has nothing to do with the Arabs. Like every other conqueror, they were just trying to tell people what to believe about their own history and existence

reply to post by tdogg1


Actually, all that advanced technology of the last 500 years came to darkest Europe from the enlightened Middle East, you know stuff like navigation and real medicine, philosophy and metaphysics.As well as the major religions of the west today ( Where's the 1st baptist church of Odin at?) I believe this knowledge kicked off what's known as the Renaissance. No more draining of the evil houmours! Oh wait, I guess there was- isn't that how Washington died? And while there may be some cross cultural assimilation due to the Bantu expansion, I would say it's more like the assimilation that happened in Santeria or Candomble. Just because they use Catholicism as a vehicle the driver is still Yoruba. Sure I've noticed the similarities between Orishas and Ntora (ntr), but it's about as related as Buddhist and Catholic saints. I never said Islam was native to Africa, but many west Africans were and are Muslim. Also, there isn't much distinction between Arab and African historically. Look at the kingdom of Saba ( Queen Shebas kingdom) stretching from Ethiopia to Saudi Arabia. The Maurutanians. The Moors. Tamazigh. Hausa. Fulani. Tuareg. Swahili. Have you ever read the romance of Antar?Shakespeare sure did. Have you heard of the invasive species problem? How an alien species comes into an ecosystem, rapes it of food and nutrients and leaves it dead? Have you seen European Empire? Any similarities? The World is dying, and the sun still doesn't set on the economic empire of the west. Just like goats in Hawaii, the west is eating the best and leaving nothing for the rest. Everything except advanced weapons of destruction was appropiated by the west from another people. The Chinese used gunpowder for fireworks and celebrations. Europeans got a hold of it and 35% of the known species since then have gone extinct. AS ABOVE, SO BELOW. And it's all our fault for not winning a game we never signed up to play.

Quote: "The man who accepts western values absolutely, finds his creative faculties becoming so warped and stunted that he is almost completely dependent on external satisfactions, and the moment he becomes frustrated in his search for these, he begins to develop neurotic symptoms, to feel that life is not worth living, and, in chronic cases, to take his own life" - Paul Robeson

www.timbuktufoundation.org...

[edit on 17-3-2010 by siahchi]