Israeli Ambassador to the US Booed off Stage at USI

Originally posted by Berserker01
Bravo.

They made an ass out of themselves, got arrested and prevented people who was there to hear the ambassador from doing so.

Instead of protesting out front, which is perfectly acceptable, they go inside and ruin it for everyone and you guys are cheering them on.

Well, I will see you guys next week. I have gotten my fill of ATS hypocricy.

Not liking the Zionist inspired agenda and subsequent deleterious effects upon us, the USA, is not hypocrisy.

When my fellow students were shot during the Kent State protests, they were outside.

I hope that you are in full rage because the post quoted here is nearly unintelligible. It would explain the inability to fully express your angst.

So let me steam that fedora for ya. I heard this from the ambassador. Israel is the Promised Land. It was promised to who by who. Yahweh the crazy nut-bag god of the old testament (deliberate low case). Their god made a promise to them. We Americans apparently have helped this promise to be fulfilled... A nation founded on secular public behavior. We now are in full support of a suppressor of civil rights, a theocracy in direct conflict with our national interest.

The Israeli lobby is reported to be the most influential in OUR Nation's Capital. According to the speaker who may actually believe in this malarkey of a very favorable ancient prophecy, we are actively sponsoring crimes against humanity.

The imposition of a Zionist state was the original infringement. They have admitted to being terrorists and have been elected to EVERY level of officialdom. (Arguably here.)

I've had enough of the 60 year kvetch. These people are crazy. They have made every one else crazy. ENOUGH!

reply to post by largo


Do you really think that Israel as it is being run today is going to get any protection from a just God. Israel had better wake up and vote the jerks out, unless of course they are using American made voting machines.

The students were rude and ill behaved not to let the Ambassador speak. It was truly disgusting to see young 'educated' adults behaving like street thugs. Yes, they should all get a "Fail" grade and as punishment they need to be sent to a cheap Northern finishing school for a year to learn some manners.

Those people who make policy and have influence need to be allowed to speak freely and fully so that we may dissect their ideas and intentions in order to come to a better understanding of what they are representing and what their motives are.

Will these unruly disrupters influence my opinion of this man? No. I will not allow the actions of others to manipulate my opinion and neither should you.

The leaders must be given full opportunity to express themselves. Then, justice may rule. Only after they have completed their presentations is it worthwhile to debate the issues. Outbreaks like what happened keep the issues from being brought forth. Their own words will make or break them. Let them speak.



[edit on 20-2-2010 by Alethea]

Originally posted by john124
Perhaps it's the way they spoke their views. If they had stood up and shouted football chants would they still not be kicked out???

Both the pro-Israel and anti-Israel supporters there shouting and cheering were behaving fairly extreme, and both sides are quite crazy.

It would be ridiculous for any of these students to fail their exams because of this unless any of them are prosecuted and receive a criminal record for their outburst, but I would hope not because they weren't particularly threatening even if they did behave rudely.

This kind of tribal politics should have no place in universities. The problem is that arresting these students would only further worsen the issue.

The trouble is the students who rebel like this are risking their future education and a possible lifestyle in the states by doing this.
It's my understanding that most of the angry ones who attacked the jews and faculty are overseas students. If they get kicked out they have to go home.
It's pretty dire stuff if you think about it.

Originally posted by Gregarious
reply to post by The time lord

 

In the past, Jews and Christians could coexisist with the Muslims, but they were required to pay an extortion fee, lovingly called a 'tax'. It is only now that they simply cut off our heads.

So no different to the Romans then because that is what happened when when Islam landed on Israel and the rest of the world, those who fought back retained their freedom, those who did not ended up in veils and paying Dhimmi tax.

If you are a non Muslim and you were at that event would you have personally stood up and interupted the guest speaker as in personally shout at him?

If not then why would Muslim students do so when they them selves are not Palestinians if they supposed to be a neutral audiance? The only link between what happened at this event is that those Muslim students hate Israel and probably Jews too because their religion says nothing good about them or other religions.

Originally posted by The time lord
If you are a non Muslim and you were at that event would you have personally stood up and interupted the guest speaker as in personally shout at him?

With Pride.

I would have stood up and Shouted Worse things than they did.

As a Roman Catholic Canadian.

Originally posted by The time lord
If you are a non Muslim and you were at that event would you have personally stood up and interupted the guest speaker as in personally shout at him?

You bet I am not a muslim but I would have asked him all the questions that politicians are afraid to ask. I would have asked him a hell lot more and wouldve demanded answers as I do from my city legislators for the Govt. support to Israel.

reply to post by Alethea


There's really not much to discuss after 60 years of apartheid, genocide, and murder. What is there to discuss? How civilized must we pretend Zionists are? How much more organs yanked out before enough is enough? Where is the deadline? You'll probably understand that diplomacy failed when YOUR family has its organs stolen for 60 years, YOUR family is a subject of white phosphorous, YOUR home is evicted, and your children are shot dead in their streets. Is 60 years not enough for you to "get it". Was the Liberty attacks and 9/11 not enough? I think you'd change your opinion if you were the victim of Zionism. We never treated Hitler as a civilized ambassador, why should we treat these Zionists, who are doing the same thing, any different? Leaders? You do understand the core of the issue is that most of the world does not accept Zionism right? I'll ask one more time, and I hope it doesn't take another 60 years to answer: WHAT IS THERE TO DISCUSS? Your moral judgement is misdirected, funny you ignore that this man is an accomplice to all of the above crimes. Please fix your broken moral compass.

[edit on 21-2-2010 by TSawyer]

reply to post by Republican08

I'd be so pissed if I failed my exams because I stoop up for something I believed in......

part of becoming an adult is learning when to shut up and when it's appropriate to speak your mind.

Even in a "free world" you are not free to walk into a Delhi and piss on the cheese.

You can't go around doing whatever you want, whenever you want. Because if it were true, there'd be even more people out there doing whatever they could to make sure you never spoke again. Can't have your cake & eat it too.

Originally posted by Snarf
reply to post by Republican08

 

I'd be so pissed if I failed my exams because I stoop up for something I believed in......

part of becoming an adult is learning when to shut up and when it's appropriate to speak your mind.

Even in a "free world" you are not free to walk into a Delhi and piss on the cheese.

You can't go around doing whatever you want, whenever you want. Because if it were true, there'd be even more people out there doing whatever they could to make sure you never spoke again. Can't have your cake & eat it too.

This is a ridiculous statement. I fail to see how voicing your opinion equates to urinating on someones property.

Do you think perhaps years of indoctrination has lead some to the conclusion that with responsibility comes a loss in rights?

I partially agree that things become difficult between an employee who speaks their mind freely to an employer. And great legal contexts can be inferred as justification for termination. However that is when one must speak respectfully, not yell or freely use slurs.

I do not believe an employer should have a lawful right to terminate you for respectfully voicing your opinion. But then that's an off-topic control vs liberties argument.

This is more or less in a public setting. Once again, nothing they did was unlawful or illegal. They were invited, voiced their opinion and left willingly without violence.

Everyone is taking it far off course with exaggerations and contextual leaps.

Once again. 11 STUDENTS were arrested for 'PROTESTING'. Take your biased adjectives out of the discussion.

Then we can bring it further back on topic about the US Ambassador being booed. It's because of the internationally recognized atrocities Israel has commited.

And you can counter that Palestinians are just as guilty, oogey boogey *trembles*. Taking us back off into an ethnic debate.

Last I checked it happened in America. So I don't care about foreign policy or law. Or how you Israelis or Arabs feel about one another. As an American I'm telling you it was handled poorly by the school administration and the police.

[edit on 21-2-2010 by mryanbrown]

reply to post by mryanbrown

This is a ridiculous statement. I fail to see how voicing your opinion equates to urinating on someones property.

Its quite simple if you actually give it some "thought"

If you say "this" and "that" happens to you as a result, its called cause & effect


If you, representing your school, do something that embarrasses your school and makes the organization look bad, and fail your test a result

then you got what you deserved.

Its a lesson that can only be taught by trial & error because no idiot 17 year old moron ever believes the wiser, older person, when they say "Learn to keep your mouth shut"

Originally posted by Snarf
reply to post by mryanbrown

 

This is a ridiculous statement. I fail to see how voicing your opinion equates to urinating on someones property.

Its quite simple if you actually give it some "thought"

If you say "this" and "that" happens to you as a result, its called cause & effect


If you, representing your school, do something that embarrasses your school and makes the organization look bad, and fail your test a result

then you got what you deserved.

Its a lesson that can only be taught by trial & error because no idiot 17 year old moron ever believes the wiser, older person, when they say "Learn to keep your mouth shut"

No. Reality doesn't work that way. When you don't physically interfere with someone. They have no reason to physically interfere with you.

Your whole Matrix 'cause and effect' argument may have some merit. If you acknowledge that arresting and failing someone for using non violent words is a result of lack of SELF-control also.

If you can't refrain from taking actions against WORDS. You have the real problem.

[edit on 21-2-2010 by mryanbrown]

its wonderful to see humans waking up and seeing the truth that there is mass genocide going on in this world and the ones causing it are the same people we fought to save, they control the media the newspapers there trying to get a hold on the internet but one thing those zionist pigs well never control is the human mind and spirt as long as we have these things we will always have free will let us make use of it before they find a way to complete there destruction of the human spirt and belief that everyone is created equal

Originally posted by TSawyer

There's really not much to discuss after 60 years of apartheid, genocide, and murder. What is there to discuss? How civilized must we pretend Zionists are? How much more organs yanked out before enough is enough? Where is the deadline? You'll probably understand that diplomacy failed when YOUR family has its organs stolen for 60 years, YOUR family is a subject of white phosphorous, YOUR home is evicted, and your children are shot dead in their streets. Is 60 years not enough for you to "get it". Was the Liberty attacks and 9/11 not enough? I think you'd change your opinion if you were the victim of Zionism. We never treated Hitler as a civilized ambassador, why should we treat these Zionists, who are doing the same thing, any different? Leaders? You do understand the core of the issue is that most of the world does not accept Zionism right? I'll ask one more time, and I hope it doesn't take another 60 years to answer: WHAT IS THERE TO DISCUSS?

Your moral judgement is misdirected, funny you ignore that this man is an accomplice to all of the above crimes. Please fix your broken moral compass.

TSawyer, let me clarify my reasoning for you. While I may agree with you whole-heartedly, there is only one reason I say let him speak. I have found that if you give someone enough rope they will eventually hang themselves.

Evil people become bolder and more arrogant over time. As this happens more people will begin to clearly see what the agenda is and what is happening. Then, the underdogs will gain more momentum as others come to aid in their cause.

I believe there is a way to accomplish the defeat of evil without bringing shame and reproach on yourself. When attention is being focused on the disruption and misbehavior it negates the bold self-assuredness of evil victors that could have been brought forth into light.

I have seen it happen before that despots will get cockey; and when they do, they screw up. When it is allowed to become more apparent to everyone, the dividing line will no longer be grey with innuendo, cover-up, and disguise. It has to be brought to a head.

Let the evil ones have their say; their words will be their undoing. Rest assured, this cannot go on much longer.

Originally posted by mryanbrown
We all have rights until a crime is commited.

...a crime being committed doesnt remove anyone's constitutionally protected rights - not even the one(s) arrested for committing a crime (but the latter has always been a source of contention)...

Originally posted by mryanbrown
And simply voicing your opposition and walking out is not a crime.

...it can be if its disruptive...

Originally posted by mryanbrown
These students had a right to voice their opinion. And when they did their rights were violated. I don't care if you disagree with HOW they chose to exercise their RIGHT. I agree sovereignty comes with responsibility. But nothing they did at that venue warranted either an arrest, or threatening grades.

...there are laws pertaining to being a nuisance or disrupting the flow of "business as usual" - because - the right to voice your opinion does not invalidate nor is it more important than other people's right to enjoy a peaceful environment or continue with "business as usual"...

...as for the staff that threatened the students' grades - whether or not they behaved inappropriately isnt a constitutional issue but one that will be decided by the uci board of regents...

Originally posted by mryanbrown
And yes there is proof the students rights were violated. They were ARRESTED.

...being arrested does NOT prove the students' rights were violated...

...arrest is based upon a presumption of guilt - but - actual guilt is determined in a courtroom - and - as long as the miranda rights are executed properly at the time of arrest, its not a violation of constitutional rights to be arrested and presumed guilty until you can prove otherwise in a court of law...

...the validity of the "innocent until proven guilty" concept has been hotly debated for many decades but thats off topic for this thread...

Originally posted by mryanbrown
And yes your rights are violated if you feel you need a license to travel. Or a myriad of other junk.

...thats a good but very OLD debate - best served by starting a thread about it...

Originally posted by mryanbrown
Just because you waive your rights freely does not mean they are not being violated.

...just because you think someone's rights are being violated, doesnt mean they are... just because you think someone has freely waived their rights, doesnt mean they have...

Originally posted by Snarf
Even in a "free world" you are not free to walk into a Delhi and piss on the cheese.

You can't go around doing whatever you want, whenever you want. Because if it were true, there'd be even more people out there doing whatever they could to make sure you never spoke again. Can't have your cake & eat it too.

Originally posted by mryanbrown
This is a ridiculous statement. I fail to see how voicing your opinion equates to urinating on someones property.

...snarf's comments were right on target...

...freedom of expression is NOT just about being verbal (freedom of speech) but is inclusive of all kinds of self-expression (religion, press, signage, etc)... urinating on someone's property is not a constitutionally protected form of self-expression because it defaces someone's property... voicing your opinion is not a constitutionally protected form of self-expression when you are a nusiance or when you intrude on other people's pleasure / privacy or interrupt "business as usual"...

Originally posted by mryanbrown
Do you think perhaps years of indoctrination has lead some to the conclusion that with responsibility comes a loss in rights?

...do you think years of indoctrination leads some to the conclusion that with responsibility comes a GAIN in rights?...

...do you think years of indoctrination leads some to the conclusion that they have rights that dont exist within the framework of the constitution?...

...all of the above mindsets are clearly evident in our society - always have been... whose indoctrination is more valid?... that'd be a good thread too...

Originally posted by mryanbrown
This is more or less in a public setting.

..."more or less a public setting" is often used to blur the realities of property law... uci is not public property, so your arguement really isnt one at all...

Originally posted by mryanbrown
Everyone is taking it far off course with exaggerations and contextual leaps.

...pssst - "everyone" includes you, lol...

Originally posted by mryanbrown
11 STUDENTS were arrested for 'PROTESTING'.

...can you prove that's what they were arrested for and charged with or are you just contextually leaping again?...

...i would suspect public nuisance or trespassing would be the charge... only the most naive of protestors are not aware of the highly likely probability of being arrested... it just goes with the territory...

Originally posted by mryanbrown
Take your biased adjectives out of the discussion.

Then we can bring it further back on topic about the US Ambassador being booed. It's because of the internationally recognized atrocities Israel has commited.

...there is not just one aspect of this deal - and - every poster has a right to interpret it like they want to, as long as they abide by ats rules...

...the most disturbing responses have been from those who ranted about israel not being civilized, then the poster expressed the desire to be violent themselves, which is hardly civilized but, of course, that kind of mentality always justifies their own lack of civility...

...seems to me that if you're gonna start damning one country for committing genocide, you better make dang sure your own country has never committed genocide too and, if they have (no matter how long ago it was), you better rant on them just as hard or you're just a babbling bigot, imo...

Originally posted by Jinni


Now I know many of you give the lip service that Israel is bad but how many of you are willing to make the sacrifice of lost earnings, business, education impact if you speak out?

[edit on 20-2-2010 by Jinni]

What for?
For Allah to be praised?

For a supposed condemnation against Israel and a veiled effort for a vote of confidence for Islam?

Vote for confidence for Islam?
Is that what is all about?

[edit on 21-2-2010 by spacebot]

People rightly should condemn Israel for its actions, but the people have to know. Was that a veiled confidence vote for Islam all those years? Christians or westerners in general were tricked with the pretext of condemning Israel inhuman treatment of Palestinians?
Even an atheist, shouldn't someone know to whom really his/her vote of confidence is going to really?

[edit on 21-2-2010 by spacebot]

reply to post by mryanbrown


okay but you're describing a world that you WISH existed
im describing the world AS IT CURRENTLY exists

"learn when to shut your mouth" is a life lesson that everyone must learn through trial and error, because nobody has an ego that will allow them to listen to experience and reason

it really is that simple, and no, i dont have the real problem, i dont live in a fantasy world

Originally posted by Alethea
The students were rude and ill behaved not to let the Ambassador speak. It was truly disgusting to see young 'educated' adults behaving like street thugs. Yes, they should all get a "Fail" grade and as punishment they need to be sent to a cheap Northern finishing school for a year to learn some manners.

Those people who make policy and have influence need to be allowed to speak freely and fully so that we may dissect their ideas and intentions in order to come to a better understanding of what they are representing and what their motives are.

Will these unruly disrupters influence my opinion of this man? No. I will not allow the actions of others to manipulate my opinion and neither should you.

The leaders must be given full opportunity to express themselves. Then, justice may rule. Only after they have completed their presentations is it worthwhile to debate the issues. Outbreaks like what happened keep the issues from being brought forth. Their own words will make or break them. Let them speak.



[edit on 20-2-2010 by Alethea]

Yea sure, in general people should be polite and all that... but some folks need to be harassed.

People are suffering & dying by the millions thanks to the system this so called "leader" pimps for... polite time is over, ghetto rules apply.

He and his self anointed "leaders" deserve all the vitriol they get.. they should all get pelted with rotten veggies & angrily booooooed off the stage until they decide to wash the doo doo off their souls, side with humanity and stop cheer-leading for corrupt govts that lie to kill innocent people.