Yahweh is a storm god, page 5
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reply posted on 7-2-2010 @ 09:31 PM by Phenomium
Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
reply to post by TheLaughingGod


What you fail to understand is that, Jesus sacrifice gave God considerable more latitude in dealing with humans, he could forgive them more easily for a variety of crimes against his moral code. Everything that was punishable by death was now forgivable. That is a huge change.
Jesus shed blood and sacrifice is not that well understood by many, even some Christians.

When Jesus was on the earth he forgave many sins, and is shown to be very kind and loving. But he did get angry on one occasion making a whip of ropes and overturning tables in the temple area. He was mad at the greedy commercial sellers.

Jesus will be leading the charge in front of the Angels when the time comes to get rid of the greedy commercial system of our day too. He didn't like it back in the first century, and he doesn't like it today.


Well said brother.


reply posted on 7-2-2010 @ 11:51 PM by Copperflower
Hi LeoVirgo, and SpeakerofTruth:

I am not trying to "humanize" God; it is He who puts things into terms we humans can understand, calling Himself our Father, etc.

I base my conclusions on research into the only document mentioning Yahweh, which was the basis of this thread. Hence, all references would be contained in the document pertaining to Him and the people He chose from all those present at that time.

He never required anyone's death. It was not in the plan for us, but since we chose to take it for ourselves, He offered redemption rather than destroy all that He had made, which, let's face it, took billions of years, folks. I wouldn't want to start over either. That's understandable.

Of course the Bible tells us clearly that God isn't like us, in some very important ways: He doesn't lie, He doesn't go back on a promise, He doesn't forget, even if hundreds of years pass, He doesn't hurt people who are hurting, He doesn't act quickly in His anger, He doesn't lose His patience, He doesn't stop rescuing, He doesn't turn away from honest prayer, He doesn't forget us. I could go on, it's a very specific list.

He is trying to make us understand the parts of Him that we can, the parts that should cause us to admire Him and be glad to adore Him, to understand that every good and perfect thing comes from Him, and that there is a reason for everything, a consolation for wrongs, and justice in the end. None of us can promise that, so He is very different than us.

The Bible says clearly that He was grieved, frustrated, disgusted. He loves humanity, hates evil, longs for people to come and know Him. Those are attributes we can certainly comprehend, even as the lowly humans we are.

He also expressed sorrow that people wouldn't stay around and have a relationship with Him after He rescued them, blessed them, protected them from trouble, etc. You can sense the sadness in the words. Haven't you ever felt that way, a little bit?

The point is, He is not a cold, unfeeling, megalomaniac or made-up fairy tale. There is a book, why not read it?

Also, Speaker, Jesus was pointing out that when people, even religious people, turn to unethical practices, they are really worshiping the devil, and are his children. He got a lot of people to pay attention with that comment, I'm sure, and to take a fresh look at their lives, and clean them up.

He has quite a subtle and sophisticated style of communicating, tailored to the person listening.


reply posted on 7-2-2010 @ 11:56 PM by SpeakerofTruth
reply to post by Phenomium


That feeds right into fear based stuff that I am referring to.


reply posted on 8-2-2010 @ 02:07 AM by TheLaughingGod
Put on the full armour of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

-Ephesians 6:10-17

This seems to be talking about the church in my opinion.
The rulers, the authorities.
Isn't Satan supposed to be the ruler of this world?
He masquerades as an angel of light.
- The pope looks like the Emperor from Star Wars, looks like pure evil.
- Isn't catholicism a perverted hybrid of paganism and christianity?

Just writing down some thoughts, would love to get some feedback from someone knowledgeable as I'll admit I'm in a bit over my head here.


Originally posted by Phenomium
Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Originally posted by malcr

Oh, and quite relaxed about death!


Well, there is no need to worry about death. It is nigh!! I look at it one of two ways.

1. Either I am right and there is life afterdeath and we just continue our journey.

2. I am wrong and death is the end. In that case, it doesn't matter because we won't even know that we existed at all.

Either way, death is not to be feared.


Ahh, but there's one option you left out that makes a big majority of the world consider their actions on a daily basis. What if the Bible is right and those who don't accept GOD's sacrifice of his son as their personal saviour, suffer eternal damnation because of the enmity between man and GOD. Much like not having a lawyer and being tried as a murderer, one suffers a great deal of agony right here on earth. I would hate to make a spiritual miscalculation and have to deal with the eternal horrors that sum from the separation of me from the light and my GOD. That is to say Jesus.


I'll take my chances, if I end up in hell I guess my only chance would be to team up with Satan in a bid for the throne. *ducks flying object*

Christianity is not the only religion with a hellish realm, you might end up in some other religions hell, wouldn't you hate to make that mistake too?
What makes christianity so much more appealing and trustworthy?
If I had to guess I would say it's because you were raised in a christian setting or country, if you were born in Sweden you would most likely have been an atheist or agnostic. GodHatesSweden.com

Thomas Jefferson sums it up pretty well in this quote:

"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
- Thomas Jefferson

The evidence of the bibles authenticity is just not there, it's that simple.
I'm supposed to be tortured by this all loving god for all eternity just because I don't believe in a book that is widely regarded as a fanciful tale?

It was written by humans, changed and rearranged, it is a pain to interpret, full of contradictions, translated and edited for centuries, based on older religions(?).
Why would I blindly believe it? Just because it is a religious authority and lots of other people believe it?

It becomes a circular argument because the bible is its own authority. Basically, the bible is true because the bible says so. You can't argue against that.

Though.. I must say, that I feel it in my heart that there is some significance about the bible, I just don't know what and I can't put my finger on it.

As for my personal belief, I believe in reincarnation, as did Jesus according to some.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
reply to post by TheLaughingGod


What you fail to understand is that, Jesus sacrifice gave God considerable more latitude in dealing with humans, he could forgive them more easily for a variety of crimes against his moral code. Everything that was punishable by death was now forgivable. That is a huge change.
Jesus shed blood and sacrifice is not that well understood by many, even some Christians.

When Jesus was on the earth he forgave many sins, and is shown to be very kind and loving. But he did get angry on one occasion making a whip of ropes and overturning tables in the temple area. He was mad at the greedy commercial sellers.

Jesus will be leading the charge in front of the Angels when the time comes to get rid of the greedy commercial system of our day too. He didn't like it back in the first century, and he doesn't like it today.


I'm not sure Jesus even existed, not 100% sure that is, though I'm leaning heavily towards it.. and some part inside of me wants to scream blasphemy at the thought that he's made up.
Long story short: the bible adds nothing but confusion to my life.
I wish everything was transparent and clear, free of all the deception this world seems to be built on.

Sometimes I think I'm trapped by an evil demiurge on a prison planet.


Edited to add answer to Blue_Jay33

[edit on 8-2-2010 by TheLaughingGod]


reply posted on 8-2-2010 @ 04:57 AM by YeHUaH ELaHaYNU
Well if you must think of YeHUaH - YeShUaA as a 'storm god' might as well be "shock and awe"...
(then you'll be glad cause He can settle it)
the Northern Aramaic reference is from an enemy of Israel which wouldn't know but what it witnessed of the Hebrew named 0ne's presence or worship,
but it seems like the Native American 'rain dance' idea to me, and the calendar was agricultural!

Then again it is the red horse that gets the extended range and takes peace from the Earth -even as we are guilty and so is the Jewish state that is so presumptuously naming itself Israel in the sight of the world, and in those appointments of the calendar from Qumran there are Trumpets of warning. It is written but scattered throughout scripture (though this storm is Nuclear and He is supremely a consuming fire)

He comes upon the Clouds of the Heavens
having Force and Great brilliance,
and walks through the Earth on Pillars of fire
His face shining as the naked Sun
having a rainbow upon His head,
Behold He comes with the Destruction
a flaming sword bathed in the Heavens
with which He razes the Earth
before it is a garden
after it is a wilderness,
as figs blown by a mighty wind
He bends the sky and drops down
and the mountains melt at His presence,
from the sides of the North it lifts up and crosses
the whole Earth (without touching the ground)
in an instant suddenly they are taken
within one hour and before morning
she is not

then shall they have done as is written in Je.6:4.5
and Isaiah 24:16~to end
"
even Qur'an is about the fire and the last day(!)
they knew it was the power of Allah (the God)!


reply posted on 8-2-2010 @ 07:13 AM by LeoVirgo
reply to post by Copperflower


Hello again Copperflower,

I know why you believe what you do, for I too walked that road of faith.

Im sure in your time with the Spirit, that you have never experienced anger, hate, or wrath....nor will you.

I know your iffy with the OT....we have talked about it before.

About the book....I have read it and it is a part of my main study. The book is what showed me how man can create the image of God they are in need of, or how God can be distorted due to mans own needs and desires.....but I wish to remind you, God did not leave a book for you or me....he left the word, which is in life itself, something that can never be destroyed, in a place that it can not be distorted. God works through life, not material objects. This is just the nature of God. The book does have spiritual wisdom, but it is few and far between, so be cautious when seeking growth through the book.

The idea of calling God a 'father' is more for superiority then anything, for God has no gender, Thee is neither he nor she. This is a nature of God.

As soon as we place genders on Thee, as soon as we name Thee, as soon as we attach anything of this human world onto God, we distort Thee.

I know many get caught up in the whole 'believe' thing. But its not obvious to me that is really important for our purpose. This world seems to be based very much on cause and effect, real things we can weigh and measure.....so it seems this world is more about us making choices in actions and behaviors, then beliefs. God really has no reason to leave mankind a material book, this was all mans works.

God was able to be found before all books, its man that wants to box God in. You cant box infinite, eternal, holy, and divine. THe mistakes that get created by man doing this are enormously huge and has widely affected many people to remain attached to Earth.

You said God didnt require that anyone had to die. Ummmm.....usually the belief form the Bible goes something like this-'Man is full of sin, and cant become perfect, God must come as a man to die for our sins' then just BELIEVE of a NEW Covenant and all is well.....we place our sins on Jesus and we get the free gift of heaven'. I guess its possible you dont believe in Jesus dying for our sins, because that was the way God made for things to happen....but most who do study the Bible come away with that conclusion. To believe that Jesus HAD to die....then one believes also, God required a death be done, for mans wrongs....I said it before and Ill say it again....God does not use 2 wrongs to make a right. If anyone believes someone HAD to die for them....the blood is on their hands as well.

I just woke up so correct me anywhere that I might of took an assumption from your post....and I would love feedback...enjoy our discourse always.

Oh and yes...God does want us to know Thee....but first and foremost, we must know Earth and our Earthly bodies. How do we learn things of heaven if we cant determine first what is of Earth. And God cant just 'give' us 'the way', it is meant to be a personal path that is sought in each individual. It is an undertaken that will arise in man when man starts to seek spiritual wisdom's. If mans heart is true, God may reach out to the person before they really start seeking, I know of a couple of cases like that also.

Since the journey of life is different for each individual, through the experience of 'life, a book would defeat this purpose, a book would not suffice the full embrace of seeking a personal relation to the Spirit of all things.

That being said, the Bible and other books are things I do study alot of.

My best always
LV



reply posted on 8-2-2010 @ 12:57 PM by Phenomium
Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
reply to post by Phenomium


That feeds right into fear based stuff that I am referring to.


True, but fear is the best motivator. I would think GOD knew that, despite how others may manipulate that emotion.


reply posted on 8-2-2010 @ 03:13 PM by SpeakerofTruth
reply to post by Phenomium


Well, you know, it says in the bible "To fear God." I have no disagreement. However, for God it's a matter of respect.

As far as I am concerned, the word "fear" should be supplanted with the word "respect." Now, naturally, that will never happen....However, through understanding, one should come to terms with what the verse actually states.


reply posted on 9-2-2010 @ 02:25 AM by Copperflower
Great point about respect, Speaker. This thread is opening up some excellent points.

Hi, LeoVirgo. As always, I appreciate your thoughtful, beautiful expression.

Just to clarify, I do believe that Jesus Christ died for our sins. The point I'd like to emphasize is that He didn't have to. On His own, He had His own existence and life, full creativity. He offered Himself for us when the Garden of Eden events occurred, to keep us from having only this earthly life and nothing more.

He had worked very hard to make this universe, the earth, and us. He redeemed us from our fate. I admire Him because surely He could have left us to this fate, and done a variety of other things.

But He thought of a way to save us. God agreed. There is actually an incredible story in the Book of Adam and Eve about how this may have originated, and it was something Adam did that started the whole blood offering tradition, not God. According to the story, that is.

I'm not pushing the Gnostic or any other gospels on anyone, but the study of ancient texts includes more than Nag Hammadi, and that is how I found the Book of Adam and Eve. It exists under a couple of variations, too.

These stories existed for a very long time, and should be considered as sources for what early man believed, if nothing else. I think they hold much more than that, and are worth reading if only to see what people were learning and thinking around the time of Christ, when these stories were already ancient.

Please allow me to commend you all for your excellent points. I'm convinced there is a conspiracy to defame God and His son. Threads like this one may open some eyes, after all.



reply posted on 9-2-2010 @ 03:11 AM by SpeakerofTruth
reply to post by Copperflower


Wow.....You know about the Gnostics!!!??? I actually have the Nag Hammadi on my table now!! They are truly intriguing.

What is important, as it is with anything, is that one chooses the chaff from the wheat. Never take anything at face value.


reply posted on 9-2-2010 @ 04:19 AM by SpeakerofTruth
Originally posted by Copperflower
Great point about respect, Speaker. This thread is opening up some excellent points.



Well, that is the whole point, Copper. You know there has to be dialogue. We are, rather anyone wants to admit it, entering an era of awakening. Without, dialogue, truth will hide.

You see, the bible even gives us hints as to what has happened, up to this point, in this world. It has happened even unto the Lord's own teaching.

In both books of Job, which is in the OT, and Peter, the bibles states that Satan is the god of this world. That was the whole point of the Gnostics!!

B. The sinful world is Satan's domain: Job 1:7; 1 Pe 5:8
Ruler of this world: Jn 12:31; 14:31; 16:11
Prince of the power of the air: Eph 2:2
The god of this world: 2 Cor 4:4
He promises the world to those who will obey him: Mt 4:8-9
His domain is a sinful world under evil power: 1 Jn 5:19
God is more powerful than Satan: 1 Jn 4:4 "greater is He..."
Satan rules the world through deception and sin, not legitimately by God: Rev 12:9
god of this world

People need to stop and think long and hard about that. If you want to be a literalist, then certainly take this statement literally. It is one of the few times that you will encounter a literal statement in the canonized bible.

However, given that there is an Ultimate God, who controls ALL things, hope is not lost. However, only through an awakening can we order our spirit to fight this god that we call Satan. One must remember, the ultimate God helps those who help themself.

When man makes an ernest effort to find the truth, then, and only then shall that truth set him free!! This is something that theologians and practitioners of all faiths have failed to see throughout the ages. The Gnostics tried to tell us, but we were oh so quick to label them "heretics."

However, with universal changes taking place, humanity is beginning to awaken. Many of the posts on this thread are representative of that fact. All I can say to the REAL truth seekers is keep pushing forward!!



[edit on 9-2-2010 by SpeakerofTruth]


reply posted on 9-2-2010 @ 06:55 AM by LeoVirgo
reply to post by Copperflower


And what do you suppose would happen with us and the world if Jesus would of fought, instead of offered himself?

And what do we learn about growth for being a spiritual being (that is to do better things one day) if we place our sins onto another? How is this any different then the scapegoat Azazel? How does this allow us to reap what we sow? And why then does Jesus tell us....to carry our own cross?

How can someone else die for your sins? Do you not think God has a purpose in you being here for learning or do you think its a mistake we are all here due to the Garden story?

I took very little account of any creation story, for there is no way we can have a true telling of what happened way back when. God, in Genesis, doesnt seem to be all knowing, seems to be more of a experimenter, someone playing around with genetics.

It just makes more sense to me that we were meant to be here and we are meant to learn alot of things through guilt's, regrets, ext....which is usually associated with what some call 'sins'.

I would feel guilty to enter heaven through the blood of someone else. All I know its very important for me to carry my own cross and the blood would be on my hands if I thought Jesus died for my sins. The whole 'saving from sins' cant be just a choice by Jesus....for the prophecy goes that God would have to come as man, in the flesh, to live and die like man, and to be the final sacrifice. If you believe he died for your sins, how can you believe this was not Gods plan, in which it was 'needed' by God for us to be saved?

Im just offering thoughts for discourse, and I of course accept any challenging thoughts back at myself I worry us making a human a 'god' and believing that we place our sins onto another are 2 of the worst things for the vibration of our souls...in that we remain bound to Earth due to certain 'thoughts'. Yes, a simple thought can bound us here, I believe.

Would love some feedback
My best
LV


reply posted on 9-2-2010 @ 01:35 PM by SpeakerofTruth
reply to post by LeoVirgo


Well, given that Christ said, "What you do unto one, you do unto me also," you can sort of look at it from the perspective that all of mankind died with Christ on the cross. You see, if you're going to look at it from a unified, wholistic perspective, then you have to look at it from that perspective completely.

The Quakers essentially believed that when Christ uttered the words "It is done," that is what he meant. To them, that was universal salvation for all beings and Satan is just playing a sick game that is going to wind up being for naught.
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