Yahweh is a storm god

I believe in an ultimate God, or force that created the universe. However, it is increasingly becoming clear to me that the God I worship is not the same one as traditionalists worship.

Initially a storm god or "god of the atmosphere," Yahweh has come a long way and is now the God of the cosmos whose original name is interchangeable with the general moniker "God."

Storm god

Most Christians are not even aware that Jews were polytheistic. They act as though there was only one recognized God in Judaism. Thisis far from the truth.

Generally, Western God-believers who cross-culturally accept Yahweh as their one and only God also are ignorant of his original status as one of many gods in a system of Jewish polytheism. Eventually, the other Gods in the Hebrew pantheon were rejected and Yahweh kept.

Polytheism

Why do Christians never talk about this?Yet they are real quick to degrade other belief systems. Do they even know the history of their own faith? I think not.I think not.

He appears to Moses in flames of fire, thunder, lightening and cloud. He continued to be remembered in the Hebrew history as a thunder god. Like the storm God Baal, Yahweh was known as the ‘rider of the clouds.’

Thunder god

It has become awfully apparent to me that the traditionalists worship this strange, angry, wrathful and, yes, even murderous god. Why? Did Christ not tell the Jews that "You're father is the devil?" What "father" was he referring to?

Well, let's take a look at what the Jews revered during the time of Christ.

Some have advanced the variety as proof that the Torah has many authors (see documentary hypothesis). It is also held that the only "name of God" in the Tanakh is Yahweh (the English rendering of YHWH), whereas words such as Elohim (God), El (mighty one), El Shaddai (almighty God), Adonai (master), El Elyon (most high God), Avinu (our Father), etc. are not names, but titles, highlighting different aspects of YHWH, and the various roles which He has.

Names

Now,what is really important to understanding Jesus' contempt for this "father" is knowing what this "father" did. Of course, a cursory glance of the Old Testament, gives you a good idea, but let's have a refresher course. Shall we!!??

This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys. (1st Sam 15:2-3)

Violence

So, I'm supposed to believe that my God did this? Sorry, I don't buy it. That's not the God I worship, and it wasn't the God of Christ either.

Here is another against his own "Chosen" people:

Joshua 11:20, "For it was the Lord himself who hardened their hearts to wage war against Israel, so that he might destroy them totally, exterminating them without mercy, as the Lord had commanded Moses."

Really now?

I could goon and on, and on. However, there is no need. I think what I have pointed out is sufficient enough to understand my point.

Now, when one looks at the world today, we scratch our heads. We have so-called "Christians" proclaiming that "All who do not believe as I will burn in hell." Even worse, there are Muslims who call for the beheading and complete annihilation of those who don't believe as they do.

Why? The answer is simple. They are the products of misled doctrines.Yet they keep filling their minds with falsities.

All I can say is I worship the Universal God,not some storm god,or moon god, or any other kind of god. I worship THE GOD,just as Christ did two thousand years ago.

I worship a God that is loving, compassionate and forgiving. What god some other people are worshipping I know not. I know it's not my God.








[edit on 6-2-2010 by SpeakerofTruth]

Well, same god different name. Its personal opinion based on how you want to "praise" or thank him..her..it..lets stick with The. Ima call it The, creator of the universe. Guess what, its the same one you worship.

reply to post by gandhi


Guess what. It's not. I tend to think that the Old Testament is highly influenced by malevolent forces. The only thing redeemable from the Old Testament is the Ten Commandments.

The differences between the God that Jesus spoke of and the god of the Old Testament are as obvious as day and night.

reply to post by gandhi


I disagree, for the one that is Holy, the Divine Unseen, is nameless, for Thee cant not be limited by such a thing as human language. It surpasses all forms of names....as same God, different name...only means that one doesnt understand, the True God, has no name.

Every time God is given a name, Thee is limited.

not so...
and this is going to have to be a protracted thread!

why?

Because I don't just copy-paste and plagiarize!

[edit on 2010/2/6 by YeHUaH ELaHaYNU]

reply to post by YeHUaH ELaHaYNU


Why does this have to be a protracted thread?

What do you think Gods name was before humans existed, and there was no language of mankind?

You cant bound what is Holy to our boundaries, all names we give God are used in ways to make an image of what one feels God to be....such as El (most high), all the names have meaning for man, not for God, God transcends all things, even language.

To need God to have a name, shows attatchment of Earthly things. Its not bad, for we show our understandings of where we are with the name we except.

reply to post by LeoVirgo



True,the REAL God is nameless, and unfathomable. God certainly cannot be defined by the anthropomorphic god of the Old Testament.

Leo, I know that you're smart, so you know what I mean. In my opinion, the writers of the Old Testament, Hasmonean Jews, used God as a crutch to justify their own despicable acts. It's akin to when someonecommits a crime today and claims that "God told me to do it." It's the same principle, different era.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Now, when one looks at the world today, we scratch our heads. We have so-called "Christians" proclaiming that "All who do not believe as I will burn in hell." Even worse, there are Muslims who call for the beheading and complete annihilation of those who don't believe as they do.

Why? The answer is simple. They are the products of misled doctrines.Yet they keep filling their minds with falsities.

All I can say is I worship the Universal God,not some storm god,or moon god, or any other kind of god. I worship THE GOD,just as Christ did two thousand years ago.

I worship a God that is loving, compassionate and forgiving. What god some other people are worshipping I know not. I know it's not my God.

First, I have to admit that you are right that Jews originally were not very monotheistic. Why? Because Jews were pagans to start with.

Jews only started worshiping one God because Moses saved them, by God's leave. But even after they were lead across the sea, the Jews still reverted to paganism and idol worship very quickly. It was there tradition! Moses was gone for a few days and they went back to their old ways. Even though they were given many signs, many of the Jews still upheld their pagan ways.

But, the Torah was ONLY A BOOK OF MONOTHEISM. If they were practicing anything else than the Torah, they were completely misguided and basing their practices on traditions, which had no bases in their religious teachings.

I agree with your assessment that no merciful God would command the Jews to kill every man, woman and child. However, Jews are known for changing history to make it benefit them. This was probably not originally written in the Torah.

This tactic for slaughtering is completely the opposite in Islam. The longest chapter in the Quran is dedicated to rules of warfare. The #1 Rule is that peace contracts should be made. If they are broken, it gives Muslims the right to kill.. But only the right to kill men. No child or woman should be harmed, and also the men should be spared if they chose to convert. This was completely unheard of before Muhammad, as men were never spared under any circumstance. This law was given because the Quran was written by a MERCIFUL God.

On to your claim about Muslims wanting to behead any nonbeliever....

No true Muslim believes this. If they do, they are highly misguided and it is a very very very small percentage. There are non-muslims in every country in the middle east.. And also in Iran, etc. The Quran specifically states that "there shall be no compulsion in religion". It tells us to make peace contracts with the non-believers and only to attack them if they break the promise.

You say that you only worship a merciful God. As a Muslim, I can say the same thing. The most often repeated phrase in the Quran, the statement that starts out 113 out of 114 chapters in the Quran is "Bismillah- Irrahman - Irraheem"..

This means: "In the name of God, most gracious, most merciful"

Allah is only the Arabic word for God, but in Arabic, names are actually attributes. Allah is given 99 names, and his 2 most important are "Gracious" and "Merciful". If you actually read the Quran you would read that he can forgive any sin he wants to, other than idolatry (if maintained until death).


Yes, we worship the same MERCIFUL and FORGIVING God.

Until you actually read the Quran you are going to continue speaking out of ignorance about things you know nothing about.

Islam is not the same as Judaism (although there are many similarities).

Muslims believe the exact same as you: ORIGINALLY, the Torah was legitimate scripture. But it has been altered over time and perverted. Therefor we do not look at it at all for guidance.

[edit on 6-2-2010 by seattletruth]

I'm no bible expert but I'm familiar with some of the questionable acts Yahweh is said to have done. It puzzles me how christians can rationalise and justify all the unmoral things perpetrated by their supposedly all loving god.

I mean.. what god is supposed to be angry, jealous and hateful? Doesn't really make sense to me. To me he comes off as a cosmic bully and the only reason for worshipping him seems to be out of fear because if you don't he'll send you to hell for all eternity, hardly fair.

Can you as a christian admit to basically being forced through threats to comply with his demands? Either you will deny the evil side of Yahweh or you'll rationalise it by doing what's best for your eternal soul, comply with the almighty so you can stay away from hell..
I'm ranting, but this is what the bible does to me - confuses the hell out of me on so many levels it's ridiculous.

I don't care for the judeo-christian god,
I like Jesus though.

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


I agree with your OP very much so...the OT image is not what I have a personal relation with. I think the only way one can find this is to be open enough for a personal relation without clinging to what prior man has told us. When we find the personal path, and experience the true nature of what is Holy, then we can discern through many books and find others that walked the same path, that did have spiritual wisdom's. As well, we can discern and find the natures within books that is not Holy nor of God.

The Divine will always be beyond words, although it can be accessed by words to some extent. All major world religions and traditions contain deep wisdom and truth mixed with human folly and superstition. We have reason and common sense, granted to us by (or manifested within us from) the Divine. So we should use our wisdom and common sense to look beyond fear and superstition in any tradtion.

It breaks my heart to see fundamentalists of any religion clinging in fear and ignorance to their "sacred texts" and wooden rituals while the holy rhythm of each day, perfect in and of itself, passes them by.

It has been said that there is something immoral about abandoning your own judgement. People who lay down their own judgement in favor of a purely text-based interpretation of religion (or a religion filtered through any particular "guru" or leader) may think they are proving their devotion through sacrifice of their own judgement. But actually they are turning their backs on one of man's holiest gifts.


[edit on 2/6/10 by silent thunder]

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


And as much as I agree...I want to add though, what the purpose is for this era of a wrathful image of God. It has helped me, find the true nature of God, believe it or not.

I have learned to discern, and the Bible is the perfect tool once one experiences the true nature of God.

Just as though we must experience light and dark, to appreciate the light, and just as though we must have death and birth to appreciate the birth, and just as though we must have love and hate, to appreciate the love, we must be given both natures, of Earth and what is Holy....so we then can appreciate what is Holy. There are all markers, to show understandings in each soul. We are given both natures in the Bible, so the ones that seek, will see, what is beneath the words. Its actually the perfect tool, to know what is of flesh and Earth, and to know what is of Spirit and heaven.

So I am thankful that I have the history of a wrathful god who desires earthly things, and of a loving God, who desires spiritual things. I learn from them both, they both help me see.

Does that make sense?

We must experience what the idea of 'chosen ones' leads to and how that manifests, so can see that separation of man does no benefit to man. Man had to experience the idea that God desires a special land of Earth so man could see this benefits nothing of the Spirit. We see this happening everywhere right now, many people becoming spiritual, being open, and coming to the same conclusions about Gods nature, without books. Not saying there is not wisdom in books, but it must be discerned.

[edit on 6-2-2010 by LeoVirgo]

Originally posted by seattletruth

I agree with your assessment that no merciful God would command the Jews to kill every man, woman and child. However, Jews are known for changing history to make it benefit them. This was probably not originally written in the Torah.

Certainly, the Hasmonean Jews were certainly known for this. Not only that, they layed claim to being the only people with the written word!! This is where the whole "The earth is only 7000 years old," crappolla came from.

reply to post by TheLaughingGod


That's essentially what I am stating in my OP. To me, there is a demarcation line between the god of the Old Testament, and the God of the New Testament. Study Marcionism. It might be of some interest to you. Here is a link for starters:

Marcionism is the dualist belief system that originates in the teachings of Marcion of Sinope at Rome around the year 144 CE (115 years and 6 months from the Crucifixion, according to Tertullian's reckoning in Adversus Marcionem, xv). Marcionism reflects a different understanding of the roots of Christian belief than that commonly held today. To the early church, the source of the most persistent persecution of Christians was from Judaism,[1] and they understood that the Old Testament's theology of wrath was different from the New Testament's theology of love and salvation.

Marcionism

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


Kind of amusing as to why the Jews won't accept the Book of Enoch as true scripture, eh? They weren't the first to receive it.

Also it's the reason they won't accept Muhammad as a messenger.. It's out of jealousy that he wasn't from their own people.s

God has given hundreds of prophets and messengers throughout history, to each nation of people. He only quit once the world became much more interconnected, because then the message from one messenger could spread across the world.

[edit on 6-2-2010 by seattletruth]

reply to post by seattletruth


Well, certainly. It's amuzing to me that many books were left out. It's amuzing to me that truly enlightened people have been labeled "heretics" throughout the centuries. I find many things "amuzing," and not haha amuzing either.

It's rather sad, really.

[edit on 6-2-2010 by SpeakerofTruth]

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


Jews just like to think they're special. They are jealous that any other group of people could have received scripture from God so they act like a psycho girlfriend and vehemently deny it while getting violent and lashing out.

They think can do no evil because they are "God's chosen people".

But that analogy holds no water.. Think about this: Who was God's chosen ANGEL?

Yeah, Lucifer. Obviously he could do no evil either.

Truthfully I believe God has disowned them because of their millenia of lies, deceit, and treachery, all in the name of YHWH.

[edit on 7-2-2010 by seattletruth]

There are indeed many Gods; however only one "Creator of All That is"; a consciousness that resides in the 7th plane of existence. All other Gods are from the 5th plane and have their own selfish agendas and egos. The God of our Bible is certainly a 5th plane God and not the Creator.

reply to post by seattletruth


God never disowns. They will be forgiven for what they did not know, and we should forgive them too. They walked a hard road, a people that felt they had no place. I understand the image of God the sought, for it was the image they were in need of. They were seeking Earthly powers, so an earthly power they received.

God will use them, and is using them, to show us all now, as well as them now, the path they walked was the path that is not. If they cant reach the need for humbleness, they wont be able to see the wrongs they followed. It wasnt all of their shortcoming, for they followed in a man they trusted. They followed in footsteps that promised them something they were in need of.

Its hard to connect to spiritual things, when it is earthly things you seek.

reply to post by thegreatobserver


That is plausible.The Gnostics essentially said the same. They said that Jehovah, or Yahweh, was a renegade creation of the ONE TRUE GOD. Christ came to dispell the precepts of that, as you put it, "5th plane creation."

In order to really understand where I am coming fromon this thread, one has to be somewhat versed in Gnostic literature. If not, it may be a bit confusing to some.