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Phone Calls from the 9/11 Airliners, Faked!

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posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 06:37 PM
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reply to post by jprophet420
 


A list of the calls off of Flight 93


wtc7lies.googlepages.com...;init:.jpg Okay that didnt work....

Try c&p this one

wtc7lies.googlepages.com...;init:.jpg

On this list, only two calls are from cell phone calls, and those were made at a time when the aircraft was around 5,000 feet. Also, at that time, the jet was in an area where cell towers are on top of hills...in the area of 2, 000 feet above sea level. Vertical separation would be less than 3,000 feet, easily within the abilities of the equipment. In addtion, in rural areas, cell towers can have a range up to 40 miles. An aircraft flying parallel to a tower like this could have a potential of almost 80 miles within the footprint of the tower.

An aircraft, moving at 500 knots, would be in range for over eight minutes. I do not know about you, but my cell phone takes less than 30 seconds to connect.



[edit on 16-1-2010 by Swampfox46_1999]




posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 06:47 PM
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reply to post by ImAPepper
 


LOL ok, a photos from someone taken from anywhere in the world in any country at any given year, perhaps, a deceased stolen ID card of someone that has been dead for years.

This is sick.



Perhaps, but can you prove I could be wrong?


You have to prove it was conjured up.


Fact is, I did not present this garbage and call it fact. And I am entitled to my opinions since the poster who presented this garbage is presenting as his opinions.

Prove, LOL no one can prove anything on either side of the boat.


Use your brain.


Like you are doing now?


The FDR was recovered. Flight 93 was tracked on radar for the entire flight.


Yes we know, but you are leaving out something very important about flight 93 FDR data:


United 93 Still Airborne After Alleged Crash - According To ATC/Radar


pilotsfor911truth.org...



You take the phone records from the GE Airphone compare them to the altitudes recorded during the flight... VIOLA!

Not rocket science.


It really amazes me in your game of twist; there are no records of the altitudes these alleged phone calls were made.

If so, you would have been so delighted to present them, just so you could discredit me. LOL



LOL this means absolutely nothing you are wasting your time showing me all this nothing, try and sell your goods to people who are ignorant, your wasting your time with me.
Of course it means nothing. It was evidence used in a court of law and NOT objected to by the defense council. It's what you do. You hand wave anything that doesn't fit your fantasy.


Not objected to by the defense council? You do not know what was not objected by the defense council, you were not there.


It's what you do. You hand wave anything that doesn't fit your fantasy.


Pot calling kettle.


Just because I refuse to believe in your nonsense, it does not mean I lack confidence, get real!

You have confidence. It's common sence that you are lacking in.


So now you are back to your same old tactic “ridiculing and insulting” let me assure you there is a *no tolerance* for that kind of behavior on the 911 threads.


All the phone calls were fake and you cannot disprove David Ray Griffin report, instead you are trying to distract everyone and cherry pick this nonsense from different events that have no relevant to disproven David Griffin report.

What was proven was that the calls took place. YOU need to prove that they were fake. Griffin does no such thing.


You are so far from the truth that you just demonstrated how you have just ignored the OP period.

This thread is to disprove David Ray Griffin work because he “HAS proved” the phone calls were fake. I don’t need to prove anything here, I presented the articles in the OP and ask the debunkers to disprove it.

So start disproving.

There has never been anyway to really prove the phone calls happened. This information was giving to us by the media and the lying FBI whom have stop at nothing to cover-up and deceive everyone, with the help of the media.

The media has chosen a side and that is the OS side, and they will manipulate anything and everything to make themselves and the government look good, that is a proven fact.


Griffin does no such thing.


Wrong.


We are in here, to try and discover the truth, and denying ignorance, not to continually parrot a proven OS lie, and call it Truth.

You have been spoon fed facts for sometime now. You refuse to face the REAL truth.


No I haven’t been spoon fed any facts. I had to get out and research to find the facts, because the government and the media have only spoon-fed everyone lies and proven disinformation that you continue to absorb and believe in.



The victims family members spoke with their loved ones. Some victims left messages on answering machines. The family members actually spoke in detail of the conversations. The 911 operators ALSO gave great detail of their conversations with passengers.


Which “could “have been done in any backroom anywhere in the world?
Either way, you have no prove it is true, all you have is the lying FBI and government word, as if they don’t lie enough.


What has Griffin done to prove these calls fake.


LOL, you just demonstrated that you did not even read the OP. You just jump right in here, because you see an opportunity to attack someone who oppose your silly views about 911.


If you want to really, believe in people that bad then we should just abolish our courtrooms .......

That's what YOU think. You hand waved ALL the evidence used in the Mousouii trial.


Here you go again making up stories about good posters on ATS I never made any claims to your wild accusation to “any evidence used in the Mousouii trial”

If so, then please demonstrate to the ATS casual readers to where in this thread that I did?





[edit on 16-1-2010 by impressme]



posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 08:01 PM
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Originally posted by impressme

Perhaps, but can you prove I could be wrong?



Not perhaps. You are wrong. Her husband submitted the recording on their answering machine to the authorities. Have you contacted her husband, Lorne? Will you tell him what you know?




.....And I am entitled to my opinions since the poster who presented this garbage is presenting as his opinions.


Your opinions are based on what? You are sure as heck not using any facts to base your opinion on.


Prove, LOL no one can prove anything on either side of the boat.


You're wrong again. Have you listened to the woman who took the call from Todd Beamer? Her name is Lisa Jefferson. Please explain what sinister activity that was going on at the time she prayed with him on the phone.

Have you contacted John Shaw? He was the 911 operator that took Edward Felts phone call. Was he in on it too?




by ImAPepper: Use your brain.



by YOU: Like you are doing now?


EXACTLY!! now you're getting it



Yes we know, but you are leaving out something very important about flight 93 FDR data:

pilotsfor911truth.org...


yeah, Brain Bob Balsamo.... GENIUS!!





It really amazes me in your game of twist; there are no records of the altitudes these alleged phone calls were made.

If so, you would have been so delighted to present them, just so you could discredit me. LOL



Really, are you serious???? You are aware that back when seat back phones were used, that the times were recorded? Cell call times were and still are recorded. Look at your statement.






Not objected to by the defense council? You do not know what was not objected by the defense council, you were not there.


I have read many transcripts. Admittedly, although it is possible it was objected...it was allowed as evidence. This is where you say the judge and jury were in on it.





So now you are back to your same old tactic “ridiculing and insulting” let me assure you there is a *no tolerance* for that kind of behavior on the 911 threads.


Um.. a wee bit sensitive our we?



This thread is to disprove David Ray Griffin work because he “HAS proved” the phone calls were fake. I don’t need to prove anything here, I presented the articles in the OP and ask the debunkers to disprove it.

So start disproving.

There has never been anyway to really prove the phone calls happened. This information was giving to us by the media and the lying FBI whom have stop at nothing to cover-up and deceive everyone, with the help of the media.

The media has chosen a side and that is the OS side, and they will manipulate anything and everything to make themselves and the government look good, that is a proven fact.


Griffin does no such thing.


Wrong.


We are in here, to try and discover the truth, and denying ignorance, not to continually parrot a proven OS lie, and call it Truth.

You have been spoon fed facts for sometime now. You refuse to face the REAL truth.


No I haven’t been spoon fed any facts. I had to get out and research to find the facts, because the government and the media have only spoon-fed everyone lies and proven disinformation that you continue to absorb and believe in.




Which “could “have been done in any backroom anywhere in the world?
Either way, you have no prove it is true, all you have is the lying FBI and government word, as if they don’t lie enough.


This takes the cake. Really, please elaborate on this one. This ought to be a good one.



posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 11:16 PM
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Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999

Of course I can already see the next truther post...."They are all lying"


Do you think the FBI is lying in saying that her call did not actually happen, then?



posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 11:43 PM
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Originally posted by Alfie1
No, it is not good enough to say the phone calls were faked but you can't explain how.


Since I never made that claim...well you see where this is going to go.


This is an outrageous, bizarre, and extremely distasteful claim to make about what many people treasure as their last contact with a loved one. You want to tell them that they were really speaking to a government stooge but you haven't got a clue how.


So the only thing you have to argue with as a lame attempt to tug at heart strings? Immune here. Something evidence based might help you out though.


It's nothing like the construction of the pyramids. We know it involved lots of men, ramps, rollers and levers because that was the technology of the day.


So you know for a fact how they were built? We are discussing the ability to have done something that someone else may not be able to explain. It does not matter if it is the pyramids or a card trick. You claimed that since they had no MO to offer, they must be wrong.

Well, if you know exactly how they built the pyramids then I am wrong and I cannot wait until your peer reviewed and approved paper becomes a legit document. Until then, perhaps you should just admit you are wrong, the comparison is perfectly fair, given the context. You cannot explain it, yet it happened. (You think you can explain it though, want me to start you a thread?)

The reason we cannot be more specific is because it was 5000 years ago. No-one says building the pyramids was impossible.


The time frame matters as much as your sob story above. I know that no one claimed it was impossible. That was my point. Obviously, you just like to "try" to argue.


I am calling you and any other truthers out on the phone calls though.:-


Are you now? Really? Is this in your search for the truth? Is this based on your research? You have looked into this and can be 100% certain you are right?

Gosh, that is too bad. This thread is not all that long. Researching just this thread would really take very little effort or mental ability at all.

...and yet...

You just claimed to be calling me out on something I never said. You cannot find where I did. You cannot quote me on it. I never said it. Since this is your very own research, it says a great deal. Thank you so much. Now we know that just a few pages of short paragraphs are even too hard for you to get correct.

My head hurts too much to go on and my brain hurts to much to care after proving you have nothing to add anymore due to the fact that you are either incapable of reading or are hoping to lie. Either way....meh.



posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 11:49 PM
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reply to post by ImAPepper
 


Not perhaps. You are wrong. Her husband submitted the recording on their answering machine to the authorities. Have you contacted her husband, Lorne? Will you tell him what you know?






BREAKING 9/11 NEWS: FBI Says Barbara Olsen Did Not Call Ted Olsen. Bush Solicitor General LIED !!

www.opednews.com...


Could Barbara Olson Have Made Those Calls?


pilotsfor911truth.org...



Pentagon 9/11: Barbara olson's Phone Calls Didn't Happen!

topic posted Thu, December 3, 2009 - 1:39 AM by Solari




Back on 9/11, the FBI itself had interviewed Olson. A report of that interview indicates that Olson told the FBI agents that his wife had called him twice from Flight 77.10 And yet the FBI’s report on calls from Flight 77, presented in 2006, indicated that no such calls occurred.



This was an amazing development: The FBI is part of the Department of Justice, and yet its report undermined the well-publicized claim of the DOJ’s former solicitor general that he had received two calls from his wife on 9/11.

Olson’s Story Also Rejected by Pentagon Historians

Ted Olson’s story has also been quietly rejected by the historians who wrote Pentagon 9/11, a treatment of the Pentagon attack put out by the Department of Defense.11


tribes.tribe.net...



U.S. Solicitor General Ted Olson Lied about 9/11: FBI Now Admits his Wife Couldn’t Have Called Him from Hijacked Plane

Ted Olson’s Report of Phone Calls from Barbara Olson on 9/11: Three Official Denials


afpakwar.com...



BREAKING 9/11 NEWS: FBI Says Barbara Olsen Did Not Call Ted Olsen. Bush Solicitor General LIED


eldib.wordpress.com...


No sir, you are wrong very wrong. In fact your statement is a proven lie. You do not hear or read in anything I have written, you are not even disagreeing you are just ignoring every pieces of creditable evidences.

You are wronge.



posted on Jan, 16 2010 @ 11:55 PM
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Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
reply to post by jprophet420
 


A list of the calls off of Flight 93


wtc7lies.googlepages.com...;init:.jpg Okay that didnt work....

Try c&p this one

wtc7lies.googlepages.com...;init:.jpg

On this list, only two calls are from cell phone calls, and those were made at a time when the aircraft was around 5,000 feet. Also, at that time, the jet was in an area where cell towers are on top of hills...in the area of 2, 000 feet above sea level. Vertical separation would be less than 3,000 feet, easily within the abilities of the equipment. In addtion, in rural areas, cell towers can have a range up to 40 miles. An aircraft flying parallel to a tower like this could have a potential of almost 80 miles within the footprint of the tower.

An aircraft, moving at 500 knots, would be in range for over eight minutes. I do not know about you, but my cell phone takes less than 30 seconds to connect.



[edit on 16-1-2010 by Swampfox46_1999]


You dont know about much but putting your spin on things. The call in question, from Cee Cee, was made while the plane was at cruising altitude, not when the plane went down. It had her cell phone number on the caller ID at home. That particular call was allegedly made BEFORE the whole ficticious lets roll bull#, so the plane was at cruising altitude when the call was made.



posted on Jan, 17 2010 @ 12:09 AM
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reply to post by Lillydale
 


A more accurate question to ask me would be..

"Do you believe David Ray Griffen when he alleges that the FBI denied Barbara Olson called her husband from Flight 77 during the Moussaoui trial?"

And my answer would be no, I do not believe Dr Griffen. What is more important, neither does the FBI.

From the Moussaoui trial

cryptome.org...

US Attorney David Raskin examining Agent James Fitzgerald




At 9:15 a.m. and at 9:26 a.m., Flight 77 passenger Barbara Olson called her husband, Ted Olson, and spoke to him for about one minute before the call was cut off. Barbara Olson reported that the flight had been hijacked by hijackers wielding knives and box cutters and that all the passengers were in the back of the plane.

At 9:20 a.m. and 9:31 a.m., Barbara Olson again called and spoke to her husband, Ted Olson. She reported that the pilot had announced that the flight had been hijacked. Ted Olson asked Barbara her location, and she replied that the plane was flying over houses. Ted Olson told his wife of the two previous hijackings and crashes.


So, here we have an Agent testifying to the fact that Mrs Olson called her husband.

What got Dr Griffin's panties in a bunch was this...

911myths.com...:Aa77calls_all.png Sorry...that didnt link right c&p time again....

911myths.com...


This is the slide showing the "Flight 77 calls", two from Renee May, one unconnected one from Barbara Olson (her cellphone) and then five calls (4 connected, 1 not connected) from an "unknown" caller.

Now, when you dig into all those records I posted to you the other night, but you didnt want to go through, you discover that the four connected calls ended up at phone number (202) 514-2201. On 9/11/2001, (202) 514-2201 was the Solicitor General's (Ted Olson) office. Those calls are verified by GTE phone records, GTE operators Teresa Gonzalez, Mercy Lorenzo, and DoJ secretaries Helen Voss and Lori Keyton.

911myths.com...

[edit on 17-1-2010 by Swampfox46_1999]

[edit on 17-1-2010 by Swampfox46_1999]



posted on Jan, 17 2010 @ 12:15 AM
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reply to post by jprophet420
 


Reread the documents from GTE. Then get back to me.



posted on Jan, 17 2010 @ 12:32 AM
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Originally posted by impressme
All the phone calls were fake and you cannot disprove David Ray Griffin report,


except that the calls did take place, so that disproves his so called "report" See how easy it is to show "truthers" tell lies? Who to believe, the families of people who knew someone on the flight, or a conspiracy theorist who just makes things up?


This thread is to disprove David Ray Griffin work because he “HAS proved” the phone calls were fake.


he has done no such thing, the calls were made so how could he prove that they were not?


The media has chosen a side and that is the OS side,


You do not expect them to choose the side that makes things up like beam weapons, invisible explosives, thousands in the USAF knowing about swapping aircraft, pod carrying aircraft, atomic bombs used and more such silly conspiracy theories etc.


, that is a proven fact.


again you confuse your opinion with fact...


We are in here, to try and discover the truth, and denying ignorance,


except, as has been shown many times, "truthers" are not at all interested in the truth, prefering silly conspiracy theories with zero basis in any facts


I had to get out and research


research is not visiting conspiracy theory sites and beleiving every silly thing you read there!



posted on Jan, 17 2010 @ 12:56 AM
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Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
reply to post by Lillydale
 


A more accurate question to ask me would be..

"Do you believe David Ray Griffen when he alleges that the FBI denied Barbara Olson called her husband from Flight 77 during the Moussaoui trial?"



DO NOT tell me what to ask you. Since when does an honest debate involve you getting to dictate what I can and cannot ask you and how I should do it? I did not mention David Ray Griffin. Just reading your posts has given me a freakin migraine tonight.



posted on Jan, 17 2010 @ 12:59 AM
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reply to post by Lillydale
 


Since the FBI testified in court that Barbara had indeed called her husband, your question made absolutely no sense. Unless of course you believe DRG's ravings on the subject.



posted on Jan, 17 2010 @ 02:59 AM
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reply to post by Swampfox46_1999
 


911 myths is a proven disinformation website, and I proved that to you and everyone in here. So please don’t use a very well known website that spew venom against the truth and twist the facts to fit the OS.

911 Myths is all one sided, the OS side only. The author mostly presents his views and opinions and claims them as facts without creditable sources or any sources at all.

David Ray Griffin has proved the phone calls could not have taken place due to the timing and the technology in 2001 with high altitudes calls.

You have avoided debating Griffin work, is it to hard for you to debunk using creditable sources?

Most people are well informed that Ted Olsen lied about Barbra Olsen phone calls you are kicking a dead horse.



posted on Jan, 17 2010 @ 03:45 AM
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reply to post by dereks
 


All the phone calls were fake and you cannot disprove David Ray Griffin report,


except that the calls did take place,


No, the calls did not take place, and most likely impossible at high altitudes you should try and do some real research, you do not know what you are talking about.


Cell Phone Limitations

Given the cell phone technology available in 2001, cell phone calls from airliners at altitudes of more than a few thousand feet, especially calls lasting more than a few seconds, were virtually – and perhaps completely – impossible. And yet many of the reported cell phone calls occurred when the planes were above 25,000 or even 40,000 feet24 and also lasted a minute or more – with Amy Sweeney’s reported call even lasting for 12 minutes.25

Three problems have been pointed out: (1) The cell phone in those days had to complete a “handshake” with a cellsite on the ground, which took several seconds, so a cell phone in a high-speed plane would have had trouble staying connected to a cellsite long enough to complete a call. (2) The signals were sent out horizontally, from cellsite to cellsite, not vertically. Although there was some leakage upward, the system was not designed to activate cell phones at high altitudes.26 (3) Receiving a signal was made even more difficult by the insulation provided by the large mass of an airliner.
Well-known Canadian scientist and mathematician A. K. Dewdney, who for many years had written a column for Scientific American, reported early in 2003 on experiments showing that these difficulties would have rendered impossible at least most of the reported cell phone calls from the 911 airliners.27 His experiments involved both single- and double-engine airplanes.
Dewdney found that, in a single-engine plane, successful calls could be counted on only under 2,000 feet. Above that altitude, they became increasingly unlikely. At 20,000 feet,
“the chance of a typical cellphone call making it to ground and engaging a cellsite there is less than one in a hundred.... [T]he probability that two callers will succeed is less than one in ten thousand.”


www.globalresearch.ca...


so that disproves his so called "report" See how easy it is to show "truthers" tell lies?


You should stop with the insults, and your statement about Truthers are untrue.


Who to believe, the families of people who knew someone on the flight, or a conspiracy theorist who just makes things up?


This is about finding the facts to what really happened. The OS has mostly been proven false. Most surviving families have made it very clear there are too many unanswered questions in the 911 OS.


This thread is to disprove David Ray Griffin work because he “HAS proved” the phone calls were fake.
he has done no such thing, the calls were made so how could he prove that they were not?


Can you show proof that David Ray Griffin work is wrong, besides given us your opinion?


The media has chosen a side and that is the OS side,
You do not expect them to choose the side that makes things up like beam weapons, invisible explosives, thousands in the USAF knowing about swapping aircraft, pod carrying aircraft, atomic bombs used and more such silly conspiracy theories etc.


I can assure you that most Truthers do not subscribe to your nonsense.


, that is a proven fact.
again you confuse your opinion with fact...


No there is no confusing my opinions, my opinion are only my opinions and usually I will say if something is my opinion.
I certainly wouldn’t say my opinions are facts that is being little ridiculous don’t you think? No, the truth and the facts speak for themselves and there is no denying it unless you are in denial.


We are in here, to try and discover the truth, and denying ignorance,
except, as has been shown many times, "truthers" are not at all interested in the truth, prefering silly conspiracy theories with zero basis in any facts

What is the logic behind that? Then why even bother looking for truth?

"truthers" are not at all interested in the truth,

Then what are Truthers interested in?


I had to get out and research
research is not visiting conspiracy theory sites and beleiving every silly thing you read there!


Finally, that is something you said that is correct. So let me ask you, where should someone like you go to get to the truth that is no bias and is not one sided and can look at all the evidences, and talk about both side of the issue’s open mindedly, that will present sciences, and is creditable and have no agendas, like nothing to hide, any ideas?






[edit on 17-1-2010 by impressme]



posted on Jan, 17 2010 @ 06:14 AM
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Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
reply to post by jprophet420
 


Reread the documents from GTE. Then get back to me.


What for? you believe the government and not her husband. I believe her husband and not the government. She called him twice and left a detailed message. The message can be found right here on the forums, theres a whole thread about it.



posted on Jan, 17 2010 @ 06:20 AM
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I can prove DR Griffin wrong.

In eight pages no-one has been able to answer this question. How did the perps fake voices and obtain the intimate personal details necessary to completely fool the closest relatives of those passengers who booked their flight s last-minute ?

Hear is some info. on last minute changes and it is a truther site !

www.911blogger.com...

If you look you will see that 3 out of 5 flight attendants on UA 93 were not originally rostered for that flight and nearlly half the passengers were last-minute including some who swapped from flight 91.

How was it possible for supposed perps to fake calls from people who didn't know themselves that they would be on that flight until late ? People like Tom Burnett, Tod Beamer, Ed Felt, Jeremy Glick and Mark Bingham. The latter arriving so late he didn't even get on the passenger manifest. Not forgetting Sandy Bradshaw ( flight attendant who swapped with a colleague )

Please give me an explanation that does not involve magic or DR Griffin is dead in the water.

[edit on 17-1-2010 by Alfie1]

[edit on 17-1-2010 by Alfie1]



posted on Jan, 17 2010 @ 09:57 AM
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reply to post by impressme
 





911 myths is a proven disinformation website, and I proved that to you and everyone in here. So please don’t use a very well known website that spew venom against the truth and twist the facts to fit the OS


Except for the records are in a few dozen different places, I simply chose the one that had all of them in one spot. (or, are all of those people liars too?)




The author mostly presents his views and opinions and claims them as facts without creditable sources or any sources at all.


Newsflash.....the DOCUMENTS are sources.




David Ray Griffin has proved the phone calls could not have taken place due to the timing and the technology in 2001 with high altitudes calls.


And once again, we get back to the fact that you just dont understand that the majority of the phone calls came from the Airfones and not cell phones. You know, Airfones, the ones designed to call from "high altitude"




You have avoided debating Griffin work, is it to hard for you to debunk using creditable sources?


When you wont accept anything that comes from anyone OTHER that Griffin.....makes it a moot point.




Most people are well informed that Ted Olsen lied about Barbra Olsen phone calls you are kicking a dead horse


You mean misinformed.



posted on Jan, 17 2010 @ 09:59 AM
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reply to post by jprophet420
 


The government (as detailed in the Moussaoui trial transcripts) says that Barbara Olson called her husband. Ted Olson says she called him. Why do you think those are opposite viewpoints?



posted on Jan, 17 2010 @ 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
reply to post by jprophet420
 


The government (as detailed in the Moussaoui trial transcripts) says that Barbara Olson called her husband. Ted Olson says she called him. Why do you think those are opposite viewpoints?


it is actually comical do watch the thread and see you twist and spin like a hooked fish.
Here is the original question that you have dogged ever since Lillydale asked you.
" Do you think the FBI lied?"



posted on Jan, 17 2010 @ 02:00 PM
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reply to post by Donny 4 million
 


And as I pointed out, that question was not a valid one because it was based on David Ray Griffin twisting the facts of what the FBI said during the trial. But since the FBI testified that Barbara did indeed call her husband that day, then no, I do not think they lied. Feel better?




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