Indian man attacked and set alight in Melbourne

Originally posted by munkey66
And to say that Australia is a dangerouus place to live
India is ranked No.1 in the world for murders with 37,170 , ranking higher than the US #5 with 16,204 and the UK #14 with 1,201 . Australia is way down at #36 with 302
www.nationmaster.com...

Cheap!

India has over 1billion people as a population.
If you want to talk about murderers tell me how many murderers/racists are in india vs. indian population and how many australians are murderers/racists and tell me what the end percentages are.

In other words... apples and oranges is what you are showing me.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


So..

Do we have to include all the made up claims of racism?

There seem to be ALOT of unsubstantiated claims of racism againsts aussies. Why? BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE HATE AUSSIES.

Perhaps you could now get the tooth fairy to take the stand to prove that even though the guy in the news story made it all up.. an aussie was still ultimately to blame. Somehow. :shk:

[edit on 11-1-2010 by riley]

Originally posted by riley
There seem to be ALOT of unsubstantiated claims of racism againsts aussies. Why? BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE HATE AUSSIES.

Don't you think you are taking it a little too personally?
Nobody hates aussies man

Personally I think a woman with an australian accent is the most attractive thing in this world.
I can melt and become jello in her hands.

Two jobs ago I was on contract at medical information hosting company in money making manhattan. The IT director there was an australian, we became good friends and to be honest mainly because of her accent I kind of developped a crush on her. I loved just listening to her speak.. yum yum yum!!!

So see i'm pretty sure I don't hate the people that I believe have the most attractive accent on this planet bar none.

Can you pinpoint any post made in this thread that shows hate towards australians?
Can you?
No seriously can you?

reply to post by ModernAcademia


OK.. here's some figures!

India

Population: 1,139,964,932
Square Kms: 3,287,270 Sq. Km
Murders: 37,170

Average Murders Per Sq Kms: 1 every 88.4 Km
Average Murders Per Population: 1 for every 30,668.9 people

Australia:

Population: 21,374,000
Square Kms: 7,687,000 Sq. Km
Murders: 302

Average Murders Per Sq Kms: I every 25,453.6 Km
Average Murders Per Population: 1 for every 70,774.8 people

Happy Now?

IRM

race "issues" are never discussed with any semblance of consistency or fairness.

Take the UK where I live


"The statistics available in table 3.5 of the Home Office document, Statistics on Race and the Criminal Justice System 2006/7, tells us that, in the three year period 2004/05 to 2006/07, Blacks were suspected of murdering 94 Whites, whilst Whites were suspected of murdering 37 Blacks."

Originally posted by blueorder
race "issues" are never discussed with any semblance of consistency or fairness.

Take the UK where I live


"The statistics available in table 3.5 of the Home Office document, Statistics on Race and the Criminal Justice System 2006/7, tells us that, in the three year period 2004/05 to 2006/07, Blacks were suspected of murdering 94 Whites, whilst Whites were suspected of murdering 37 Blacks."

In any country that accepts a lot of refugees and immigrant groups who are warring against each other, there is bound to be a rise in violence as these troubled people act out their own hatreds against each other.

England and Australia have this in common, the more immigrants, the more violence. Ignorant finger pointers say, "look, that's proof that country is racist, look at all the immigrants being attacked!"
When in fact it's the various immigrant groups fighting each other most of the time, and if our countries were truly racist those immigrants would not have been invited to them in the first place.

Certainly there are some racists, and some people who will indulge in random violence against strangers for whatever reason, but these people exist everywhere.

However I believe this latest finger pointing is from racist idiots who want to tell the world that someone else is racist, to make themselves look/feel cleaner.

There is also a problem with the Indian government blowing up a storm to punish Australia for not selling them uranium. If this name-calling is what it takes to make a nuclear war less likely then let them go ahead with it. Only the haters will label a whole country like this.

reply to post by InfaRedMan


nice stats
thanks for the link

oh wait... you didn't give one

here are some stats for you with a link

Australia population = 22,110,979
India population = 1.2Bn Approx

India ranks #5 in most assaults and Australia #8
www.nationmaster.com...

India: 236,313 assaults
Australia: 141,124

Do you wish to find the percentage of assaults(population/assaults) or should I?

Crime Statistics > Assaults (per capita) (most recent) by country
# 10 Australia: 7.02459 per 1,000 people
# 49 India: 0.218755 per 1,000 people
www.nationmaster.com...

And by the way, we are really going off topic
You guys are taking this wayy too seriously for god knows what reason
Nobody hates aussies, nobody thinks all aussies are racist
so what's the problem?

Why all the drama?
Why is everything being blown out of proportion?
What's the deal?

Why are we doing a pissing contest now?

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
reply to post by InfaRedMan

 

nice stats
thanks for the link

oh wait... you didn't give one

here are some stats for you with a link

I used munkey66's murder (not assault) stats above with national geo's population and area stats. No subterfuge.. No pissing contest... I thought that's what you wanted?

Needless to say, more crime goes unreported in developing nations so your figures probably aren't that reliable either.

IRM

Originally posted by Kailassa
and if our countries were truly racist those immigrants would not have been invited to them in the first place.

Haven't read your entire post but this one was sticking out to me.
I am not, as a disclaimer, saying that all aussies are racist, however what you are saying is very flawed logic.

your elected officials represent like what, less than 1% of australian population?

why are the assaults occuring?
From what i've read it's because people are opposed to Indians having easy student visas to Australia and also some are jealous of indians getting better grades than aussies.

If they are opposed to these student visas then your logic crumbles right before your eyes.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by Kailassa
and if our countries were truly racist those immigrants would not have been invited to them in the first place.

Haven't read your entire post but this one was sticking out to me.
I am not, as a disclaimer, saying that all aussies are racist, however what you are saying is very flawed logic.

Yet you are debating the point as though you are..

aka "I'm not saying all aussies are racist but.. "

Sugar coating your bigotry doesn't make it more palatable.

your elected officials represent like what, less than 1% of australian population?

why are the assaults occuring?
From what i've read it's because people are opposed to Indians having easy student visas to Australia and also some are jealous of indians getting better grades than aussies.

I see you are trying to "infer" rather than be direct in order to give yourself an out yet again.

So what do you mean by "aussies" exactly..? Aussies meaning sterotyical bronzed anglo-saxon australians? You have deflected this question many times yet keep hinting thats the race you mean.

Many of the attacks have been commited by NON WHITE ethnicities. I do not think an attacker would say "YOU STOLE MY UNIVERSITY PLACE I WAS GOING TO BE A DOCTOR!" when they are stabbing a random stanger. Please post EVIDENCE that these attacks were mostly commited by rival aussie students. I'm wondering.. when an immigrant from lebenon beats up an immigrant from india is it because aussies are jealous of the indians grades? If an afican is on a student visa and beats the indian up is he just jealous of grades too? I bet if indians got lower grades it would be because teachers were being racist. No matter what aussies are labelled racist; just like you called the police when they wouldn't blindly accept the frauster's story.

So where did you read they are getting better grades? Indian news maybe? I like how you just managed to add yet another veiled insult to all your others and tell us that indian kids are smarter than aussie kids and thats why they are beating them up (even though they are not and you keep saying that you haven't accused them of doing so even though you kinda have). Subtle.

Oh but you didn't mean that really. You just implied it and it doesn't matter anyway as you already said you weren't racist so it's okay.... :shk:

[edit on 11-1-2010 by riley]

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by Kailassa
and if our countries were truly racist those immigrants would not have been invited to them in the first place.

Haven't read your entire post but this one was sticking out to me.
I am not, as a disclaimer, saying that all aussies are racist, however what you are saying is very flawed logic.

your elected officials represent like what, less than 1% of australian population?

why are the assaults occuring?
From what i've read it's because people are opposed to Indians having easy student visas to Australia and also some are jealous of indians getting better grades than aussies.

If they are opposed to these student visas then your logic crumbles right before your eyes.

Come on now. Give me one source to support your notion that Indians here are getting higher grades than Australians.

There are some people annoyed that there are no longer enough places in Australian Universities for all those who qualify and choose to go, because the universities now have to raise much of their own finances, and they are doing this by selling places to foreign students and squeezing out Aussies who have qualified in the process. We're used to qualifying on ability, and to have places being sold to the highest bidder instead is galling, and has led to education being wasted on incompetent students.

There was a big scandal in Sydney a few years back when a lecturer put his foot down and refused to keep awarding paying students automatic passes which they were not meeting the requirements for. This led to the revelation that the universities were so dependent on this money they were afraid to fail paying students for fear this would discourage others from coming here.

However Indians were only one of many nationalities paying to study here, and being annoyed over a policy is very different to being racist. And being racist is very different to physically attacking someone. There has never been any indication that this problem has led to attacks on anyone.

The biggest problem we have here with immigrants/visitors is their attitude to our women. Some Hindus and Muslims regard Aussie women as sluts because what we consider appropriate summer clothing they consider an indication we're just free prostitutes. And people from both groups tend to regard any woman out without a male guardian as a slut. This leads to inappropriate touching and insulting of Aussie women at dances and on the beach, and has sometimes escalated into violence when Aussie men have felt a need to protect the women.

That's just a characteristic of Australia. Aussie men can be a bit rough themselves, but if any see a stranger, whether he's white, brown, or green with antennae, ill-treating women, they get very protective. And they are just as protective of foreign looking women as Caucasians. The days are long past when we thought you had to be white to be Australian.

Our other problem is the gangs being formed by various national groups that have moved here. Vietnamese gangs were a huge problem a few years back, importing and selling street drugs. Now word on the street is that Lebanese gangs have taken that over by eliminating many of the Vietnamese. The Serbians and Croatians have also had turf wars over drug sales. Now a new Middle Eastern group is getting in on the act. When Indians think they can do a bit of independent selling in the laissez faire climate here, they don't last long.

By the way, our elected officials are much more representative of us than American politicians are of them. Money doesn't purchase favours as easily here, and we don't have career lobbyists. Many Australians voted to oust Howard because we were disgusted with his treatment of "boat people," and have been appalled to find the present left wing government being just as bad. I guarantee a lot of disaffected voters will be voting for the Greens next election.
(Proportional representation. Here a vote for a small party or independent is not a wasted vote.)

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

From what i've read it's because people are opposed to Indians having easy student visas to Australia and also some are jealous of indians getting better grades than aussies.

If they are opposed to these student visas then your logic crumbles right before your eyes.

From what you read? LOL! You are simply an armchair critic. We live here and know far more about Australian affairs than you do. You're making yourself look like a gullible fool relying on inaccurate, agenda driven opinion pieces.

I work in the education system... to be more precise, I teach Graphic Design, Pre Press and Multimedia at an institute that deals in foreign students, mainly from the Punjab.

We are told not to expect the same level of competency from them as you would within the TAFE's or UNI's and the courses are somewhat simplified to help them pass. In fact, as teachers we go way beyond the call of duty to help them pass.

Most aren't interested in the course they have taken as it's mostly used as a primary means of obtaining PR (permanent residency). Out of the 140 or so students I trained in the year of 2009, only around 10 of them were actually interested in pursuing the vocation beyond school. Less than 10%.

These attitudes manifest into bad behavior and contempt within classes. Especially from the male students. The females are much easier to teach and generally do better. Often the students will whine to the Indian teachers "why are you making us do this, we only want our PR", in the hopes that the Indian teachers will be more sensitive toward their plight... but they aren't and that shocks them!

That said, I get along extremely well with most of the students. They are gentle people and apart from a few cultural differences, we are mostly the same in many respects. The only problem (as I see it) is that a very large proportion of them want a free pass to PR and never expected to do the amount of work we give them, and to the level of competency that we expect in this country, even though it is somewhat lowered as mentioned earlier.

Now given all you seem to do is criticize other cultures on this board, why don't you tell us where you are from. If your going to take this high and mighty, deeply self righteous, know it all stance, then I feel it's appropriate to disclose your nationality and what country you reside in. Put yourself under the microscope!

I would imagine that it's the best country in the world, with no racism, murders, assaults and so on.

IRM

Originally posted by Kailassa

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by Kailassa
and if our countries were truly racist those immigrants would not have been invited to them in the first place.

Haven't read your entire post but this one was sticking out to me.
I am not, as a disclaimer, saying that all aussies are racist, however what you are saying is very flawed logic.

your elected officials represent like what, less than 1% of australian population?

why are the assaults occuring?
From what i've read it's because people are opposed to Indians having easy student visas to Australia and also some are jealous of indians getting better grades than aussies.

If they are opposed to these student visas then your logic crumbles right before your eyes.

Come on now. Give me one source to support your notion that Indians here are getting higher grades than Australians.

There are some people annoyed that there are no longer enough places in Australian Universities for all those who qualify and choose to go, because the universities now have to raise much of their own finances, and they are doing this by selling places to foreign students and squeezing out Aussies who have qualified in the process. We're used to qualifying on ability, and to have places being sold to the highest bidder instead is galling, and has led to education being wasted on incompetent students.

There was a big scandal in Sydney a few years back when a lecturer put his foot down and refused to keep awarding paying students automatic passes which they were not meeting the requirements for. This led to the revelation that the universities were so dependent on this money they were afraid to fail paying students for fear this would discourage others from coming here.

However Indians were only one of many nationalities paying to study here, and being annoyed over a policy is very different to being racist. And being racist is very different to physically attacking someone. There has never been any indication that this problem has led to attacks on anyone.

The biggest problem we have here with immigrants/visitors is their attitude to our women. Some Hindus and Muslims regard Aussie women as sluts because what we consider appropriate summer clothing they consider an indication we're just free prostitutes. And people from both groups tend to regard any woman out without a male guardian as a slut. This leads to inappropriate touching and insulting of Aussie women at dances and on the beach, and has sometimes escalated into violence when Aussie men have felt a need to protect the women.

That's just a characteristic of Australia. Aussie men can be a bit rough themselves, but if any see a stranger, whether he's white, brown, or green with antennae, ill-treating women, they get very protective. And they are just as protective of foreign looking women as Caucasians. The days are long past when we thought you had to be white to be Australian.

Our other problem is the gangs being formed by various national groups that have moved here. Vietnamese gangs were a huge problem a few years back, importing and selling street drugs. Now word on the street is that Lebanese gangs have taken that over by eliminating many of the Vietnamese. The Serbians and Croatians have also had turf wars over drug sales. Now a new Middle Eastern group is getting in on the act. When Indians think they can do a bit of independent selling in the laissez faire climate here, they don't last long.

By the way, our elected officials are much more representative of us than American politicians are of them. Money doesn't purchase favours as easily here, and we don't have career lobbyists. Many Australians voted to oust Howard because we were disgusted with his treatment of "boat people," and have been appalled to find the present left wing government being just as bad. I guarantee a lot of disaffected voters will be voting for the Greens next election.
(Proportional representation. Here a vote for a small party or independent is not a wasted vote.)

Exactly right. Like I said earlier, it is often poor manners that gets these "victims" in trouble, not their race.

But these on going poor manners do lead to many people simply not wanting more immigrants in Australia.

reply to post by riley

riley, you don't seem to get the point, do you? I'm talking about the situation in its entirety and not just one incident. In other words, the big picture.

Here are four questions that you need to answer:

1. Why do Aussie cops always reject the race angle even before it is fully investigated? Why the hurry?

2. Why hasn't a single person been arrested out of the dozens of assault cases so far? Is it due to their (Police) incompetence or is it by design?

3. The common buzz word of the Police is 'urban crime' and that these assaults are nothing more than that! Urban crime? When there is no sign of looting/robbery? Shoving screw drivers into the guts of people without a motive to rob is urban crime, huh?

4. When one is attacked in his own home and left to lie there bleeding when nothing has been stolen, is what category of crime?

So this has nothing to do with racism? Are all these assaults nothing but ordinary urban crime? Wrong! If not all, most are nothing but racist in nature. PERIOD!

reply to post by InfaRedMan

Thanx! Very impressive stats! But have a peekaboo below:

Jan 2008 Test Rankings

1 Australia
2 India
3 Sri Lanka
4 South Africa
5 England
6 Pakistan
7 New Zealand
8 West Indies
9 Bangladesh

Jan 2009 Test Rankings

1 Australia
2 South Africa
3 India
4 Sri Lanka
5 England
6 Pakistan
7 West Indies
8 New Zealand
9 Bangladesh

Dec 2009 Test Rankings

1 India
2 South Africa
3 Australia
4 Sri Lanka
5 England
6 Pakistan
7 New Zealand
8 West Indies
9 Bangladesh

Jan 2010 Test Rankings

1 India
2 South Africa
3 Australia
4 Sri Lanka
5 England
6 Pakistan
7 New Zealand
8 West Indies
9 Bangladesh

Relegated to the 3rd position! Reason enough for the Aussies to get pissed off? You bet! After all, you guys have been ruling the roost for the better part of the decade!









[edit on 12-1-2010 by OrionHunterX]

Originally posted by OrionHunterX
reply to post by riley

 

riley, you don't seem to get the point, do you? I'm talking about the situation in its entirety and not just one incident. In other words, the big picture.

I DO get the point.. not agreeing doesn't mean I do not understand. Bigger picture? This story was a HOAX and many of the other stories have been miss respresented by an anti-aussie smear campaign.

BTW. This thread is NOT about aussie/indian race relations it is about a guy who set himself alight, cried racism and lied to authorities and media about it.

Here are four questions that you need to answer:

I have already answered those points but alright..

1. Why do Aussie cops always reject the race angle even before it is fully investigated? Why the hurry?

Always? Way to totally disregard how the actual news article this thread is meant to be about. So even though he was proven to be a fraudster you think police didn't fully investigate? In this story the victim was cited by indian media as an "example" of how australian police treat indian victims. Police made several press statements explaining themselves (which they have never done for normal citizens of other races.. this guy got special treatment just for being indian). They did start "properly" investigating it and said they suspected it wasn't a racial attack. They gave reasons and it turned out to be CRAP.

Why are you expecting australian police to disregard the evidence in front of them even when it is not consistant with a race attack? You are just repeating propoganda. Even when it's proved to be BS you are STILL repeating the same old tired "aussie police are racist" rants. Remember the boy who cried wolf? Some people so want to believe that aussies are commiting race attacks that they REFUSE to accept when some turn out to be BS or blatently disregard the fact that many of the attacks they are winging about were not even commited by stereo-typical "aussies". They have NOT been complaining about the other minority groups involved in attacks.. only "aussies".

Why is that?

Because they know that "aussie" usually means "white".

2. Why hasn't a single person been arrested out of the dozens of assault cases so far? Is it due to their (Police) incompetence or is it by design?

That is not true. There have been arrests.. prove that there have not been before you accuse australian police of being incompetant. Your ignorance of those arrests is no excuse to slander them further.

I do find it very interesting that you claim that there are race assaults commited by aussies yet you also say there have been no arrests? You can't accuse someone of something yet have no idea who they are..

3. The common buzz word of the Police is 'urban crime' and that these assaults are nothing more than that! Urban crime? When there is no sign of looting/robbery? Shoving screw drivers into the guts of people without a motive to rob is urban crime, huh?

I have indeed heared of assaults.. (with no signs of looting or robbery) but not just against indians. Sometimes the motive to stab or bash someone is just to stab or bash someone. Some people just get off on committing violence. Some people get off on bashing, tagging walls or riding on the rooves of trains or throwing rocks onto cars from bridges.. pehaps all these things come under that category of "urban crime". Your argument is illogical.

4. When one is attacked in his own home and left to lie there bleeding when nothing has been stolen, is what category of crime?

Home invasion and aggrevated assault. Silly question.

So this has nothing to do with racism? Are all these assaults nothing but ordinary urban crime? Wrong! If not all, most are nothing but racist in nature. PERIOD!

Thats a statement not a question.

White people gets stabbed at train stations too you know.

[edit on 12-1-2010 by riley]

reply to post by OrionHunterX


ICC rankings are meaningless.

If you think Aussies go and bash Indians because of ICC Rankings, you are a complete moron.

Nuff said!

IRM

[edit on 12/1/10 by InfaRedMan]

Originally posted by OrionHunterX
. . .
1. Why do Aussie cops always reject the race angle even before it is fully investigated? Why the hurry?

They don't.
In the case being discussed in this thread they were able to because it was obvious to them, after looking at the evidence, the situation the Indian man reported could not have happened at all.

2. Why hasn't a single person been arrested out of the dozens of assault cases so far? Is it due to their (Police) incompetence or is it by design?

okay . . .
Can you list the assault cases you are pointing to and show us the police report on each, to prove no-one has been arrested?
Without that, your words are worth no more than my farts.

3. The common buzz word of the Police is 'urban crime' and that these assaults are nothing more than that! Urban crime? When there is no sign of looting/robbery? Shoving screw drivers into the guts of people without a motive to rob is urban crime, huh?

Again, show us the list of crimes you are referring to.
How many of these involved shoving a screwdriver in an Indian's guts? How many wore proven to not involve robbery?
Of these, how many do not involve turf wars over drugs?
How many were not sparked by attempted assaults on Australian women?
How many of the victims were known to be Indian when attacked?
Are you unaware of any cases where disputes have led to violence and did not involve robbery?

I was once threatened on a train by a guy with a screwdriver. Does the fact that the weapon was a screwdriver make it a racist attack?

4. When one is attacked in his own home and left to lie there bleeding when nothing has been stolen, is what category of crime?

There can be lots of different reasons. The cases I know of where that has happened have been revenge over some wrong that has been done. As none of the ones I know of involve non Caucasian victims, I guess whites must be the victim of much racist violence in Australia, if that's what this is.

So this has nothing to do with racism? Are all these assaults nothing but ordinary urban crime? Wrong! If not all, most are nothing but racist in nature. PERIOD!

Sure. - Like the Indians who killed their Indian employer for not paying them.
- Like an Indian "gentleman" who grabbed me and started rubbing his crotch up against me at a party and then tried to fight the men who pulled him off me. He cried racism too, complaining he had a right to act that way, because nice girls don't go out alone.
- Like the topic of this thread, an Indian telling a story very much at odds with the evidence, who is most likely trying an insurance scam.

In America, far more blacks than whites are the victims of crime. We all know that, historically, America has big problems with racism. So can we safely assume these racist white Americans are responsible for the attacks on blacks? It sure sounds likely. But when you look into it, the bulk of attacks on blacks in America these days are by blacks.

Similarly, the bulk of attacks on any nationality here tend to be by members of the same nationality, or by people from another country/culture which harbours ill-will toward the nationality/culture of the victim.

Whatever your motives are for crying racism, they have nothing to do with the facts. In fact you are the racist by implying Australian equals white. To most of us, Aborigines, Indians, Chinese, Asians, Europeans . . . they are all just more Australians. Hell, we're even accepting of Canadians here, despite Canada's proximity to America. How much less racist can a country be?

Originally posted by Kailassa
The bulk of attacks on any nationality here tend to be by members of the same nationality...

Oh yeah! Indians assaulting Indians!!! I didn't know they had this sadistic streak! I mean, Indians screwing Indians in a foreign land must give them vicarious pleasure! Your lame duck arguments are totally unconvincing.

Another Indian attacked in Oz; one person arrested

Melbourne, Jan 12 (PTI) A 28-year-old Indian man living in Australia for more than a decade today claimed that he was beaten up by a group of locals on a beach in Sydney.

The man, who refused to be named apparently due to safety reasons, said that he was kicked and punched by the group near Coogee beach yesterday.
www.ptinews.com...

Australian police arrest Indian's attacker, out on bail

The New South Wales Police Tuesday arrested a man involved in an alleged assault on an Indian permanent resident at Sydney's Coogee Beach and charged him with “assault occasioning actual bodily harm and affray", the Australian High Commission said in a statement.

“A court granted the person bail with conditions on 12 January. The matter is listed to appear before court on 24 February,” the statement said.
www.littleabout.com...

Ummmmmm.... Ok so another attack

Can anyone in Oz tell me if it's normal to be arrested and released on bail THE SAME DAY after being arrested on Assault charges?

The same day??