Sitting president's eligibility questioned by member of congress

reply to post by Dock9



Not to mention they did hold congressional hearings to prove McCain was qualified,

But I am a nutter?

reply to post by dereks


Sounds as if you're running on empty

But who could blame you ?

After all, Obama's given you nothing with which to work, has he ?

He's left his supporters high and dry, stumbling around in forums, trying to sound confident but basically despairing

Meanwhile, Obama's ok, right ?

He's the one living in luxury

He's the one who plans to travel to his asian homeland soon

As long as he does as Irael tells him, he's safe and the money keeps rolling in. Plans are probably underway right now for several Obama books and mini-series. He'll never be short of a dollar again

Meanwhile, it's people like you who're left to fend questions about his student loan. And speaking of his student loan --- what can you tell us, if you don't mind. After all, so little is known of Obama that every bit helps, seeing Obama himself is and has been so secretive

And those social security numbers attributed to Obama ... how many is it again ... 26 social security numbers, not to mention those in Ann Durham's name

How many social security numbers do you have ? Do you have 26, like Obama ?


And what about his qualifications prior to springing from nowhere and nothing to become US president ? Weird history, hasn't he ? And so many unsavoury rumours, all the way through. Doesn't bother you ?

Why doesn't it bother you ?

Do you just vote 'team style' ? Just automatically vote for your political-team when you're not rooting for your usual sporting team ?

So you'd vote for him, and defend your team's 'winner', even if it meant privately, you agree with those still seeking answers to the enigma that is Barack Hussein Obama ? Ok. I see


Looks mysterious, doesn't he ?

Doesn't look Hawaiian, that's for sure, lol

Doesn't look Caucasian either

Doesn't look black. Tiger Woods is only one quarter black and he looks much more 'black' than Obama

So what are Obama's origins, do you know ? Is he Egyptian ? Is he jewish ? Is he an Arab ? Is he Indonesian ? Malay ? Phillipino ?

Weird, isn't it ? Man who can't be figured out at all

Guess you're a gambler at heart, huh ? You don't mind a total stranger with secretive history, controlling your own and your descendants destiny ?

Oh well, good luck to you

I would like to provide there are two citizenship classifications in this country. "Naturalized and Natural Born". Which seems to be the most overlooked issue in this whole matter. Granted the result of Obama not eligible may cause instability and possible martial law due to all the laws passed under his administration no longer in effect. But what price is it to pay to keep "The Constitution of the United States of America"? In my own thoughts Constitution first.

Naturalized: Is a citizen that has immigrated to the United states and has fulfilled all requirements to become a citizen of the "United States of America" and pledges their allegiance to the "United States of America". Also, "Naturalized is also defined further by stating that any child that has one parent that is an American Citizen while the other is not an American citizen the child becomes an American citizen by Naturalization.

You may pick through my paraphrasing of this statement as I have spent a lot of time reviewing this since it was first announced in mid 2008 during the Presidential election race. Even with the changes made in 1987 in regards to citizenship still does not make Obama natural born even though it may not be fair from his stand point.

Natural Born Citizen: Any child born from two naturalized American citizens or from two Natural Born citizens on American soil or land that has been claimed to be American soil.

The classifications are straight forward and are specific. If, you want to even reference this through per say, Supreme Court cases please review, "United States v. Wong Kim Ark" You may also find Leo Donofrio as his work on such citizenship cases even involving Supreme Court Justices that were not even legally in right to hold position. His work is slightly now being noticed.

Originally posted by Awakening4America
The classifications are straight forward and are specific.

except that you are wrong - where is that stated in the Constitution?

If, you want to even reference this through per say, Supreme Court cases please review, "United States v. Wong Kim Ark"

That is not a relevent case, has nothing too do with Obama!

So once again birthers fail, and Obama is the proper POTUS

But remember, this is not about any bit of paper that Obama produces or the fact that he was born in Hawaii

Okay...I will be merciful and tell you where to look...

United States Constitution (Article IV, Section I) generally known as the full faith and credit clause.)

....

Hawaii, like many states, now prints birth certificates upon request from computerized state records.

State records like COLBs are granted "full faith and credit" by the U.S. Constitution, Article II, Section 1. They are valid both with the US Gov. as a whole as well as recognized as wholey valid by every other state...under the US Constitution.

Barack Hussein Obama II was born in Honolulu on 04 August 1961, as demonstrated by the validated state issued COLB.

* No Links...You can look it up yourself...Given your postings, I suspect you could use the practice actually researching and discussing factual data and law....give a try and tell me if I am BSing...

The only thing to point out is Hawaiian COLBs are not going to ever be like the rest. When Hawaii was made a state there was a burden for the government to concoct a way to issue COLBs to already existing residents. So, this is why the short form is considered legal. I find it amazing that no one has researched all of this thoroughly. It is highly convenient for really anyone residing there. If anything it should be a red flag that the state of Hawaii needs to be overhauled and forced to comply with all other states in regards to COLBs. Something else to ponder on for now as hearsay, Who was the one that went to the state and signed and witnessed the birth. My chips will lay on the fact that his grandmother signed the COLB which is only found on the vault COLB.

Originally posted by Dock9
reply to post by dereks

 

Sounds as if you're running on empty

But who could blame you ?

After all, Obama's given you nothing with which to work, has he ?

Except his proper birth certificate, the fact that he was born in the Hawaii and is the properly elected POTUS

stumbling around in forums, trying to sound confident but basically despairing

That is a description of birthers! How many court cases have they lost now? 54?
have they learnt anything? nope!

Meanwhile, Obama's ok, right ?

Yes, he is the POTUS and will remain so!

Meanwhile, it's people like you who're left to fend questions about his student loan. And speaking of his student loan --- what can you tell us, if you don't mind.

You are talking about a April fools joke that birthers fell for!
www.snopes.com...

And those social security numbers attributed to Obama ... how many is it again ... 26 social security numbers, not to mention those in Ann Durham's name

Any proof at all that they were actually President Obama's? None at all, just another lie from Orly

Weird history, hasn't he ?

not at all

And so many unsavoury rumours, all the way through. Doesn't bother you ?

Why should lies made up by pathetic birthers bother anyone? Doesnt it bother you telling so many lies about Obama?

Looks mysterious, doesn't he ? Doesn't look Hawaiian, that's for sure, lol
Doesn't look Caucasian either Doesn't look black. Tiger Woods is only one quarter black and he looks much more 'black' than Obama

Now the truth finally comes out. This is not about any bit of paper, just his race. You just could not hold back on the racist coments, racists rarely can!

You don't mind a total stranger with secretive history, controlling your own and your descendants destiny ?

What makes you think he controls my or my descendants destiny? Just what are you babbling about?

[edit on 9/2/10 by dereks]

Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by Awakening4America
The classifications are straight forward and are specific.

except that you are wrong - where is that stated in the Constitution?

If, you want to even reference this through per say, Supreme Court cases please review, "United States v. Wong Kim Ark"

That is not a relevent case, has nothing too do with Obama!

So once again birthers fail, and Obama is the proper POTUS

But remember, this is not about any bit of paper that Obama produces or the fact that he was born in Hawaii

You can simply review the Immigration and Naturalization act for my paraphrasing of Naturalized and Natural Born. It is easy for you to simply comment back with simply "You're Wrong" per say with my loose description of the two classes. That is why there is a clause on POTUS to being natural born. I have been on this for about two years which it does not take per say a "Professor of Constitutional Law" to interpret since those laws are before the creation of 400 page confusing descriptions riddled with ear marks laws shown in the past two administrations.

To also enlighten you on my standpoint, I am not in favor of either party, I only believe in the "Constitution of the United States of America". So, I will research and read something before commenting. Indeed the biggest weakness among the populous never will read simply prefer to have instant gratification and rely on the words of someone else. I am always open for civil debate but you need to make some effort in your response.

Originally posted by Awakening4America
You can simply review the Immigration and Naturalization act

Obama was neither a Immigrant nor was he Naturalized, so that act does not apply to him.

That is why there is a clause on POTUS to being natural born.

Yes, and that is why Obama is the POTUS, he was naturally born!

I have been on this for about two years

Dont you think that shows obsessive behaviour? Obama was naturally born, is the proper POTUS and nothing any birther says will change that fact.

reply to post by dereks


Unfortunately, you only wish to argue but not state the fact of even using the ratified version done in 1987 of the Naturalization and Immigration act. I would highly suggest you post the act here and read it carefully. Now, when you do that keep in mind that the mother Ann was only 18 years of age at the time of Obama's birth. My point is so far, I laid it out for you. It would be desirable not to waste time with it, which you could simply go read the act and then point out where I am wrong. Unfortunately, we can bicker all night about nothing or you can civilly debate it. Showing me in exactly where I am wrong in that act. Please also keep in mind Obama does follow under this act since he only had one parent that was an American citizen so understand I am more than right as this same act follows for any baby born on American soil or abroad with only a parent that is an American citizen.

Originally posted by Awakening4America
reply to post by dereks

 

Unfortunately, you only wish to argue but not state the fact of even using the ratified version done in 1987 of the Naturalization and Immigration act. I would highly suggest you post the act here and read it carefully. Now, when you do that keep in mind that the mother Ann was only 18 years of age at the time of Obama's birth.

More old lies and disinformation.

You are refering to 8 USC 1401(c), Naturalization Act of January 29, 1795:

"a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person."

rs6.loc.gov.../llsl001.db&recNum=537

Birthers continue to jump the gun and get these laws mixed up, whether it be on purpose or over the basis of plain lazyness to actually do the research.

That is true in the case for foreign born children of american citizens. So if Obama was born off american soil to the same parents, he would be a citizen but not a natural born citizen as his mother could not pass that on. However Obama was born in Hawaii as confirmed on his short form birth certificate, as confirmed by Hawaii health department spokes person Jenice Okuba, as confirmed by Hawaii health department director Fukino, as confirmed by Congress, December 15th 2008.

Your using a law that doesnt apply to Obama as he was born on US soil. That law would apply to somebody like McCain, but he was born to military serving parents on a US base, both citizens, so he is also a natural born citizen.

My point is so far, I laid it out for you.

The only thing you've laid for us here are a bunch of outdated talking points with no relevant sources or constitutional references.

No please, continue to spew more disinformation. I have been at this for a long time now, I still have plenty of information saves me the time and debunks every birther lie, so continue on.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Food for thought since I also have documentation of this issue as well. And with all respect I would appreciate you not calling me a "Birther" my view on this issue has nothing to do with Obama on a personal scale but a Constitutional scale. I would consider the label as an insult.

Under Sec. 301 (a) of the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952

"If only one parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of your birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for at least ten years, at least five of which had to be after the age of 16. There are no conditions placed on retaining this type of citizenship. If your one U.S. citizen parent is your father and you were born outside of marriage, the same rules apply if your father legally legitimated you before your 21st birthday and you were unmarried at the time. If legitimation occurred after November 14, 1986, your father must have established paternity prior to your 18th birthday, either by acknowledgment or by court order, and must have stated in writing that he would support you financially until your 18th birthday."

Now the only difference in the ratified version in 1986 is the age of 14 became the golden rule so Ann would needed to be 19 years of age and was only 18 years of age, my apologies as I had to go through my own documents on this as it has been since 2008, I have even participated in such. I don't agree with the means of the proposed law suits as they still want to claim Obama was born outside the United States as I say he was born here on American soil but could only be naturalized under the given conditions of this law.

By the way this law also applies with ones born outside American soil such as the case of John McCain being born in Panama while his father was serving his country on a base there. The interest in this whole thing for me is Obama is not the only person that has been on this scrutiny. If you research some on Leo Donofrio, he has even challenged the eligibility of a Supreme Court Justice that had faked citizenship and was actually a Canadian citizen. So, this is not the first time this has happened, he even shows a former Vice President under the same premise as well.

And to be clear about what I am pointing out under this section that this rule applies under born on American soil as anyone born on American soil no matter from what country is given citizenship which has all to do with the Nationality act. Given the condition that His father is Kenyan and mother an American it does apply under this rule since it would be up to Ann to go through the necessary paperwork for Obama and from all accounts and records no such paperwork was ever filed. Also, Obama had the option to apply for the paperwork at the age of majority and did not as well. There is more to this than just having a baby on American soil. There is paperwork to fill out and this was simply not done. A Hawaiian COLB can be made on anyone, but under these conditions there is other paperwork that has to be filled out by requirement of law.



[edit on 9-2-2010 by Awakening4America]

Originally posted by Awakening4America
Under Sec. 301 (a) of the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952

Of course you ignored Part 1...."A person born in the United States"

That applies to Obama... So he is naturally born.

so Ann would needed to be 19 years of age and was only 18 years of age,

That is not needed as part 1 applies to Obama, so he is naturally born.

as I say he was born here on American soil but could only be naturalized under the given conditions of this law.

As he was born in the USA he does not have to be naturalized... he is already a US citizen.

Just more birther crap

reply to post by dereks


Again you are missing the point, this rule applies to Obama under the condition that both parents were not Natural Born nor Naturalized. The whole thing of not recognizing the difference of citizenship classes only shows the lack of. It would be helpful instead of picking and choosing here and there on my words, but to put it as a whole.

You method is surely classic debunking, under the method of if we cannot retort in a comment then pick and choose words from a statement to debunk. I guess, I am done for the night since yet I have only one stimulating opposition on this subject despite the "Birther" label...

It almost reminds me of the proverbial Sarah Palin thing. The statement, "I can see Russia from my home", which in reality it was Tina Fey from SNL portraying Palin said this. Are people that far gone to not even recognize reality?

Originally posted by Awakening4America
reply to post by dereks

 

Again you are missing the point, this rule applies to Obama under the condition that both parents were not Natural Born nor Naturalized.

Nope, wrong again:

1952 The Immigration and Nationality Act of June 27, 1952, 66 Stat. 163, 235, 8 U.S. Code Section 1401 (b). (Section 301 of the Act).

"(7) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States, who prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than ten years, at least five of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years.

www.aca.ch...

No it does not apply to the president as it is specific as to refering to children born abroad. The two sub-sections are seperate as to address the different forms of citizenship. As of yet there is no constitutional reference or supreme court reference disqualifying natural born citizenship of US born citizens over the basis of both parents, as of only one being a citizen.

But yes, you continued to talk without atleast referencing sources, again. You folks do this in the hopes that nobody will correct you, otherwise you would have made the effort. You are no different from the others, so please dont try to convince anybody here.


[edit on 9-2-2010 by Southern Guardian]

Oklahoma firecracker takes on Obama eligibility
Candidate for Congress: 'If he claims he was born at Kapi'olani, I want him to show proof'

holding up two Hawaiian long-form birth certificates and a copy of President Obama's purported short-form certification of live birth – and, referencing the short form, she told the crowd, "This piece of junk is what you get when you don't have one of these!"

The woman, Miki Booth, originally from Hawaii, is running for the U.S. House of Representatives in Oklahoma's second district as an independent constitutional conservative. She had presented original long-form birth certificates belonging to her son and husband, dated 1981 and 1949.

"They are the 'vault' copies of the original ones filled out at the hospital and sent to the Hawaii State Department of Health Vital Statistics Office," Booth told WND. "It is from this office that the newspapers get their stats for births, deaths and marriages to announce in the newspapers."

Her husband, Fred, and son, Alan, were born at the Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women and Children in Honolulu, Hawaii – the same hospital declared as Obama's birthplace in a purported letter from the president.

"If he is going to claim he was born in Kapi'olani like my husband and my son, then I want him to show proof," Booth said, explaining that a certification of live birth only shows that a live baby was born – and not necessarily in Hawaii.

"What he's given us perpetuates the mystery of what he's covering up and gives us more reason to not trust him," she said.

www.wnd.com...

Booth presented this 1981 long-form Hawaiian birth certificate belonging to her son. It contains information about the doctor, birth hospital, time of delivery and other information.

Picture caption

Booth also presented this 1949 long-form Hawaiian birth certificate belonging to her husband. It contains information about the birth attendant, birth hospital, time of delivery and other information.




[edit on 112828p://bTuesday2010 by Stormdancer777]

Again you are incorrect, the first part is in regards to someone born in the United States that has Naturalized or Natural Born Parents. Per say, on your information, you completely left out that part. Constitutional Law did not fail on this, to kind of simplify this for you and Dereks, Let's say we have two Immigrants that become American citizens that reside in Dearborn, Michigan. They later decide to have a child. When that child is born it will be natural born, due to the fact both parents are American citizens. My Lineage dates back far as 1761 to a Cherokee Chief, when America became a nation my ancestors became "Naturalized" citizens of the United States of America. And all descendants that married Naturalized citizens are "Natural Born". Therefore, for "Natural Born" status you need to have both parents to be Naturalized or Natural Born, before their children can be classified as "Natural Born".

When, a visitor or Immigrant that is not an American citizen has a child on American soil, that child automatically becomes "Naturalized" as an American citizen. Here is a little picture painted for you.

Now, Stanley Ann Dunham met Barrack Hussein Obama SR. while going to college which later became impregnated by Barrack Hussein Obama SR. is not a citizen of the United States of America but a citizen of the country of Kenya. Which at the time was under the subject of British rule. (The Constitution still holds strong over tones towards British citizens and allegiance. even though it's conception if a couple of hundred years old now. Which is the main reason for the requirement of Natural Born for POTUS) Now when Barrack JR. was born since his Father was not an American citizen Barrack JR. can only be Naturalized as at the time of the act of 1952 Stanley Ann did not meet the requirements for Barrack JR. to become "Natural Born". Hence Clause does fit due to the circumstances as at the time of the act was passed was shortly after World War Two which the government felt the need to restrict Citizenship.

I am sorry you do not like the opposition, funny even McCain provided the vault certificate and I do not endorse either party they both are the same, just like wrestlers get paid to hate each other in front of an audience but behind the scenes they are sharing a beer!

And Dereks refrain from calling me a "Birther" that is just as derogatory as using the racist "N" word! Any further remarks will be considered an insult. I rather not use the ignore option as the remark is very inflammatory.

Originally posted by Kevinquisitor
Even if it comes to pass that Obama isn't eligible, and at most he is impeached, he will only be replaced by another puppet...

Maybe we can get Ron Paul in there this time?

Yeah, that is what scares me....Joe Biden would automatically be in the cat bird's seat, and I wonder if he could handle it? I too would love to see a Ron Paul White House, and I think he could win by popular support, but not by vote, for votes are tightly controlled, you know. Personally, I think TPTB plan is Sarah Palin in the White House. Now that is scary.

Originally posted by Awakening4America
Again you are incorrect, the first part is in regards to someone born in the United States that has Naturalized or Natural Born Parents.

Nope, wrong again.

The first part makes no reference to both parents having being citizens:

1952 The Immigration and Nationality Act of June 27, 1952, 66 Stat. 163, 235, 8 U.S. Code Section 1401 (b). (Section 301 of the Act).

"Section 301. (a) The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:

"(1) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;

www.aca.ch...

It just states those born within the United states. The only time there is any mention of both parents being citizens is in regards to those children born abroad.

Again, go into the line and have a look for yourself:
www.aca.ch...

Come back and reference where it is specific for both parents as citizens born within the United states.

When, a visitor or Immigrant that is not an American citizen has a child on American soil, that child automatically becomes "Naturalized" as an American citizen.

And where is your source for this claim? What laws or where in the constitution? Source?

You claim yet again without any sources and references to back up that both parents must be citizens for natural born citizenship, but no such law can be found in the constitution or among supreme court rulings. The laws are specific. There is no law or ruling where it is specific about both parents having being citizens. No law. I had a look and unless a child is born overseas, no law exists in the case of natural born citizenship.

Awakening4America it really doesnt help for you to make these claims without referencing me the actual law. Where does it specifically say that both parents must be citizens to pass on natural born citizenship for children born within the United states? Give me the link to the law.

Constitution still holds strong over tones towards British citizens and allegiance. even though it's conception if a couple of hundred years old now.

Where is the constitution specific about being born with dual citizenship? Obama did inherity british citizenship, but then lost it at the age of 2years. Taking that in mind, where in the constitution or any of its members does it disqualify one over the basis of dual citizenship?

topics.law.cornell.edu...

See, I really dont care to take your word for it. Bring me that constitutional reference, thanks.

And Dereks refrain from calling me a "Birther"

Why? How are you any different? You come here with your talking points and you fail just like the others to reference sources.

You see, the thing that gets me about ineligibility theorists is not merely the fact they buy this garbage, its the fact they continue to yap on without referencing constitutional sources.

See I dont care about what some blog said.
I dont care much for you just say the name of the law and claim it from there.
I care about the constitution.

If you are going to make such claims over the disqualification about Obama on the basis of both his parents, or his dual citizenship at birth (that he lost eventually) I want the constitutional reference. Because this is where you folks get it wrong, especially in the courts. You dont have any direct constitutional references to back up your claims.

Prove me wrong. Im waiting for that reference.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
Oklahoma firecracker takes on Obama eligibility
Candidate for Congress: 'If he claims he was born at Kapi'olani, I want him to show proof'

holding up two Hawaiian long-form birth certificates and a copy of President Obama's purported short-form certification of live birth

Hold on, where is HER long form birth certificate? Neither her husband nor son is running, so any bit of paper for them is not relevant, but where is her long firm that she thinks is important....

Just more birther lies!

Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
Oklahoma firecracker takes on Obama eligibility
Candidate for Congress: 'If he claims he was born at Kapi'olani, I want him to show proof'

holding up two Hawaiian long-form birth certificates and a copy of President Obama's purported short-form certification of live birth

Hold on, where is HER long form birth certificate?

But HER citizenship is not a constitutional question.

Neither her husband nor son is running, so any bit of paper for them is not relevant, but where is her long firm that she thinks is important....

You're right. None of their birth certificates are relevant - especially if they're not running for office, so have no constitutional requirement to produce any documents (like obama is required to do).

Just more birther lies!

No, just more pitiful obamaphile attempts to try and save their messiah.