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Only one percent of the Holocaust claims can be proven - Says Holocaust Scholar and Expert

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posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 04:44 AM
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I'm sorry but when people stop using your take on history to justify there hatred against my people maybe then i will take you seriously. Every single post i have ever seen about holocaust revision includes at least 3 statements about the jews wanting to take over the world. How in the # are we going to do that? There are only 12 million of us, and most of us don't even agree on things such as how to properly display the torah, let alone executing a global conspiracy that is somehow magically justified by the holocaust. In fact i hear more non-jews complaining about the holocaust then i do actual jews. Do you know how often we talk about the holocaust at my synagogue ? in my two years of attending i have only heard someone bring it up ONCE. But it gets better, you actually go as far as accusing us of committing genocide and then say " LOL IT'S NAWT CUZ IM ANTI SEMETEK! I HATE ALL GENOCIDE"
yet not once do i ever see you people giving the same attention to the crisis in darfur. Where the hell were you people when bodies of tutsis were clogging up the rwandan rivers? Where were you people when the armenians were being slaughtered? Where the hell are you people when it comes to north korean or mauritania?

nowhere, you people don't give a flying # about that. Somehow you all have convinced yourself that we are running the world. If we are as powerful and corrupt as you say then why isn't palestine a glass parking lot? Why isn't the USA leading full blown invasions into Egypt,syria, lebanon and iran? Why doesn't israel use neutron bombs to destroy the palestinians and other lands yet save those countries infrastructure? And where are these so called palestinian concentration camps? Where are the ovens and slave labor?

I am so goddamned sick of you people and your lies being disguised as pseudo-morally justified anti jew and israeli sentiment.




posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 04:44 AM
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Originally posted by D377MC

... evidence to refute liars.

... I guess they can stick with incompetent idiots then.

And of course, yet no answer regarding the legendary 6,000,000. I guess that's why they hire inadequate individuals in the first place - they are never meant to get involved in scholarly debate. It does make sense, although I'm sure I can build a pretty convincing case on the need for you guys to raise your game.



No one can refute your research. You've revealed the greatest hoax in history. The documents, testimonies, piles of corpses, photos - all faked.

Your scholarly endeavours are rewarded. Arbeit Macht Frei.

Suggest now checking you local Veterinary Hospital for the availability of rabies shots. It may not be too late.



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 04:52 AM
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reply to post by Regenstorm
 


Did you ever stop to think that maybe the reason israel is agressive is because they are completely surrounded by people that want them wiped off the face of the earth? Did you ever stop to think that israel is a vital strategic point in the middle east since it holds not only the holiest land in three different faiths but also.


Whatever you are right. Every single SS officer testimonial has been faked, every US and russian testimonial was faked. all of the evidence at the nuremberg trials? Faked. Himmlers Diary? 7,000 pages of jewish propaganda. The zyklon-b they found in the first two millimeters of the gas chambers. yeah i guess that was implanted by zionists as well.



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 04:55 AM
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reply to post by DeathShield
 





Why? Why does it matter if less than 6 million jews died?


That's already been answered, but you seem to have a selective mind, so lets be repetitive:



First of all, for the very reason that for decades the number of victims has been regarded as sacred. If the number of victims did not matter, there would be no reason for making it a taboo or even go so far as to protect it by laws, as it happens in several European nations. Apparently, there is more behind this figure of six million than just the sum of the individual fates of the people involved. It has become a symbol which must not be abandoned, because any justified doubts about this number would quickly lead to more undesirable questions into other aspects of the Holocaust. It is absolutely dumbfounding that, on the one hand, anyone who questions this figure of 6 million victims is made an intellectual outcast or will even suffer legal persecution, whereas, on the other hand, whenever valid arguments against this figure are raised, society and even judges will sound a retreat, claiming that precise figures are not the point and insisting on the criminal character of even a single victim. Is this figure of six million a legal yardstick or is it of no importance? It cannot be both.




If historians are ostracized or even prosecuted because their findings or even the questions they set out to answer are regarded as immoral, we cannot but assume that the results of such a distorted way of writing history will be unreliable. And because our view of history has a direct effect on the policies of those who govern us, a distorted historical perspective will lead to distorted policies. It is the fundamental task and the main responsibility of any kind of science to produce reliable results and data. Principles that have been established for the field of science and technology cannot be thrown overboard when the science of history is concerned – unless we are ready to return intellectually to the dark periods of the Middle Ages. Finally, the morally justified argument that one victim is one victim too many cannot be used to prevent the examination of a crime, in particular if this crime is claimed to be unique in its moral aberration. An allegedly unique crime must, in fact, be open to the detailed analysis of what actually did happen in a way that is applicable to any crime. I will even go one step further: anyone postulating the uniqueness of a crime must also accept a uniquely deep analysis of the alleged crime, before the uniqueness can be accepted. If, however, one were to surround this allegedly unique crime with a protective shield of moral indignation, one would ipso facto commit a unique crime, namely the denial of any defense against such monstrous accusations.


There. If any of that is a bit complex for you just holler, we can take it sentence by sentence.



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 04:58 AM
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reply to post by Sharrow
 


I've seen pictures of old tattered shoes, millions of shoes, shoes piled high and laid out across an unbelievable amount of space.

Each one of those shoes bears testiment to a soul that once lived, breathe and loved............

I've seen pictures of massive piles of human skeletons, people who were starved to death (or worse), piled together like discarded garbage.

The first tactic for laying the way for this type of thing to happen again is to say, "Oh it didn't really happen, or oh it was only a few thousand not 12 million".

WAKE THE FRIG UP SHEEPLE

The holocaust did happen, it was millions of people (my ex daughter in law's mother was born in buchenwald and hidden by the women for two weeks before liberation).

The holocaust did happen and it was an atrocity not just against a race or a couple nationalities, but against our entire species.

No matter if it's one or a million or 12 million - any and all murder is wrong.

Ignore this "happening" or belittle it and you pave the way for history to repeat itself.

We must never forget and we must never let this happen again.

There is a cartoon for all you people who profess to be "God fearing, God loving" people.

There is a man with long white hair in a robe (God) holding a tablet (the commandments) and he says to the man standing before him, "What about thou shall not kill" don't you understand?

It was the shortest and most direct of all the commandments.

My "god theory" is we are all part of a whole, connected to each other like cells in a body (god being the body, us the cells).

Doing any kind of mean sh*% to anyone is doing it to yourselves.

Mankind just doesn't seem to want to grow up. he keeps repeating the same ignorant mistakes over and over and over and over again.

To stop this we must all stand together, there is so many of us vs "them" (our corrupt governments) that they couldn't shoot us all.

Together we must protest against the corruptedness.

We either hang together or die alone.

[edit on 8-1-2010 by ofhumandescent]



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 04:59 AM
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reply to post by mmiichael
 





No one can refute your research.


With your methodology that's true unfortunately.



The documents, testimonies, piles of corpses, photos - all faked.


Which ones? More drivel I guess, but don't worry, I plan to address each and every one of these points in the coming days so you can see how it's done.



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 05:04 AM
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reply to post by ofhumandescent
 





I've seen pictures of old tattered shoes, millions of shoes, shoes piled high and laid out across an unbelievable amount of space.


When they liberated the Majdanek camp, the Soviets found literally mountains of shoes which were immediately pounced on as proof of the mass murder of detainees.
What caused less of a stir was the rectification presented decades after the war by Polish historians. It had turned out, in fact, that one of the companies, which employed detainees from the Majdanek camp, had set up a shop in the camp were old shoes were repaired. The piles of shoes found by the Soviets were the stocks of this shop. The Polish historian
Czeslaw Rajca, who worked at the Majdanek Museum, states in this regard:

“It had been assumed that this [quantity of shoes] came from murdered detainees.
We know from documents that have later come to light that there was, at Majdanek, a store which received shoes from other camps.”

At first glance, a collection of objects should be taken only for what it proves: somebody has collected them. Such a collection says very little about the fate of their former owners.

[edit on 8-1-2010 by D377MC]



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 05:17 AM
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Just adding a new figure to the topic, here's a New York Times report about 5 million Jews being murdered at Auschwitz within 10 months.
select.nytimes.com...




posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 07:55 AM
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reply to post by DeathShield
 


If you are a jew,I wouldn't dare to take God's name in vain like you did.
I am a christian believer of Yeshua.I couldn't read any more of your post
because you blasphemed God's name.



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 08:24 AM
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reply to post by mamabeth
 


Hi MamaBeth,

Can I ask you why you support Israel, as your signature says? Do you really believe it is God's will for you to do so? Do you dismiss the atrocities being perpetrated on the Palestinians...or what?

Regards,

D377MC



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 09:12 AM
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reply to post by DeathShield
 



I'm sorry but when people are accusing you of lying about one of the worst things to happen to you since Toquemata you get very sensitive about the issue.


what?
are people accusing ME of lying?
or are you just speaking in general?

and who's getting sensitive?
i'm not the one who's resorting to name-calling and baseless accusations

what i am, however, is absolutely APPALLED at the hateful attitude of so many who feel they are in the right...and therefore should have absolutely no reason to be offensive or defensive, either one - there haven't been too many insulting or derogatory remarks, or accusations, made in this thread, by the so-called 'jew-haters' and 'nazi-sympathizers.'

what's up with that?

:shk:


Do you want to know what is truly disgusting?


not really. i've already got a good idea of what constitutes "disgusting."



Why does it matter if less than 6 million jews died?


personally, that's not what bothers me
1 person is just as bad as one million or six million or 56 million...
WWII was a bad scene for everyone involved!


What really drives you?

the truth and its importance


Why are you so hellbent on proving this notion that somehow the jews are this corrupt group of people who are purposely making up a genocide?


since when have i presented that notion or the desire to prove it?
you'll have to find some sort of supporting statement if you want to pursue this tack.


If the truth really was on your side, if this was a fact as you say it is, then why in the hell did they even bother to bring it to attention?


i'm not sure who you mean by that last "they."
as far as truth - it doesn't need to be on anyone's side
TRUTH JUST IS
and to be quite honest, i don't care a bit what that truth turns out to be - i just want it to be the truth and nothing else.


Why is it that thousands of jews, US SOLDIERS, russian soldiers and THE GERMANS THEMSELVES admit that 6 million of us jews and six million non jews were destroyed?


what? is it up to 12 million now, or what?

did you not read the linked-to articles and sources that date back to the years between WWI and WWII? the early 1920's?

the idea of six million obviously comes from something more intrinsic than war-time genocide.

BUT, like i said, it's not the numbers that i really care about - when the truth comes out, the numbers will take care of themselves.

my biggest issue with all this is the DETAILS.
specifically:
* the lack of resources to feed the internees, especially at the end, when the Allies were bombing so heavily that the Red Cross could no longer fly safely over the camps to drop the desperately needed supplies to the people in the camps, which only added HUNGER to the suffering and disease
* the typhus epidemic - that no one seems to truly appreciate as far as how bad of a situation it got to be
* the use of Zyklon-B as it is INTENDED and not to kill people outright - the reason people were herded immediately to the showers is because they were CRAWLING with LICE! especially those who came from Poland!
* the impossibility of so many of the gas-chamber claims - it just isn't possible to kill people with cyanide in the setting that is claimed - anyone who would take the time to research this stuff would realize that it just does NOT make sense!


Is it because of some scary zionist plot?


you know what, dude?
you're barking up the wrong tree with ME
plots don't scare me and nor do zionists
ignorance is our biggest hurdle - and it's a blatant refusal of so many to investigate on their own - to just accept the ingrained story we've all been fed ever since the end of the war.
there is so much that is accepted as AUTHORATATIVE that literally has no actual documented source!
i myself didn't have any idea just how mistaken i was, going along with the status quo - until one day i stumbled into the whole mess, researching something else!
i had to change everything i had believed, up until then.
but it didn't hurt and now i'm glad not to be deluded by common opinion.


I got news for you, the holocaust happened and millions of innocent people from all races and faiths were destroyed.


no #!
something like 56 million people perished in the years between 1939 and 1945.
just about every family on this planet suffered tragedy and loss because of WWII...as if WWI wasn't horrific enough!
i know the word holocaust literally means something like "fire-storm"
this whole planet was a holocaust for those 6 years.
it's not just about one certain group of innocent victims NOR is it about one solitary group of unforgivable monsters lacking any sort of human feeling at all...


Yet irrational closet neo-nazis such as yourself insist that history needs to be revised.


LOOK.
you do NOT know even the first thing about me other than this thread...and i'd advise you to cease your reckless accusations of being irrational or non-straight-forward (closet) and ESPECIALLY neo-nazi...toward me, and anyone else, for that matter.

it's good practice because you never know who might be listening to you, over your shoulder, that might actually take offense at your name-calling!
i wouldn't take offense at your words even if they were true, but not everyone is able to remain dispassionate and detached from emotion, ESPECIALLY about this issue.

just saying - it might be a good time to *check-up* if you dig.



Let's say that the numbers are exaggerated only a few hundred thousand jews were killed. The mere fact that you want to rewrite history in order to make the nazis look like innocent aggressors is disgusting in itself.


have i, personally, said anything at all in this thread about it being less than 6 million Jews? like i said, the numbers aren't what concerns me.

nor do i want to *re-write* history - history is what it is - i only want it to be revealed and no longer convoluted and hidden.
it is not a weapon - it is the story of humanity and it belongs to all of us, for constructive use rather than destruction and discord.

and, btw, "innocent aggressor" is an oxymoron.


Hitler was a #ing madman, he was bat# insane without anti-semitism, he wanted to conquest the entire planet, yet people like you would have us believe that he was somehow an innocent pawn in a far greater globalist agenda.


once again, did i ever ONCE say that Hitler was *innocent* or anything else?
did you know Hitler personally?
if not, then how can you say what he was like?
why would you care?
he's doing a marvelous job as the most evil man who ever lived...he doesn't need your added villification in this thread - nor do i.

from now on, let's keep it from getting personal.
thanks.



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 09:35 AM
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Originally posted by neformore
You quoted a post where Beancounter72 said this



Keep in mind that Auschwitz and other camps in eastern europe fell within the soviet zone of occupation and therefore they had ample opportunity to fabricate evidence such as the alleged gas chamber at auschwitz.


and replied with



good point.



Indicating that you believe the Soviets perpetuated a myth, and that you agreed with Beancounter72's assessment in denying the holocaust.


you're putting words in my mouth.
i didn't say any such thing

all i said was that he made a good point, which he did - about the Soviet forces, in general.
remember that they were led by Stalin who, himself, definitely had his own agenda in regards to Berlin and Germany.
and they had to follow their leader.


So I provide you with a link to an telegram intercepted and decoded by British Intelligence in WW2
(...)
Giving the figures, and total number, in regard to Operation Reinhard


which has NOTHING to do with Stalin or the Soviet armed forces!
and actually, i have no argument whatsoever with that telegram or its contents.
it's irrelevant - and, just FYI - i don't appreciate you repeatedly calling me a holocaust-denier, alone or in cahoots with another like-minded member.
i haven't denied anything except confidence and faith in the mainstream accepted mythos, sans solid unprejudiced evidence - and that is both my GOD-given right as well as my right as an American.



i'll say to you just as i said to DeathShield:
you don't know me near well enough to be flinging accusations at me like that. it's unfounded and unprovoked and moreover, i've not behaved in such a way to you or anyone else in this thread or any other - and i won't hesitate to say so, either.

being courteous doesn't mean i have to put up with that kind of behavior!

furthermore, i'd think that, as a moderator, you'd be able to maintain more of a neutral attitude in any discussion here at ATS, regardless of subject matter.
or else excuse yourself.

i'm not impressed.


And you want to try and hide behind a secondary point about Stalin - an obvious one by the way because every allied power was gunning for Berlin.


who's hiding behind anything?
i made a statement in reply to another member's post. it was a valid statement and it did not imply what you are proposing it implied.

if you truly understand as much as you portray, then Stalin's occupation of East Berlin immediately following the fall of the third reich would not seem to you to be a *secondary point*

in fact, it became the BIG ISSUE for the whole world, for the next 44 years.


Really?


REALLY




posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 10:01 AM
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reply to post by Lesch
 


TRue, but my friend, there are too many people who just hate Israel for existing, and hence these people will try to taint the reason of why the state of Israel exists....

Jewish people lived in those lands for as long, or even longer than Muslims did, yet they don't want to even see Israel, and want it destroyed... Likewise there are many people who are not Muslim who hate the fact that Israel exists and will do everything in their power, even try to erase history and the millions of accounts from Jewish survivors to further their goal...

I have seen, and researched more than enough about the holocaust to know it existed and millions of people, including millions of Jewish people were exterminated..

Hitler blamed the Jewish people for the death of Jesus, even though Hitler was a Socialist...hence his hatred for an entire race of people, and this is th reason for him wanting to exterminate them along some others....



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 10:09 AM
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you people do not truly know, all you know how to do is divide, what a shame, and then you wonder why there is such dissent. Foolish mortals, this is not the work of nature, but a most unnatural force, why try and hide in the darkness what you can see illuminated by the light?



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 10:15 AM
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Originally posted by dww25

I beg to differ and your rationale is akin to calling the kettle black. The Israelis are stealing land and isolating the Palestinian population - they are creating illegal kibutz.


Israel gave part of Gaza back, and what happened?... the HAMAS terrorists settled closer to Israeli cities and attacked them daily....

I wonder how you would read if your neighbor kept throwing rocks, and molotov cocktails into your house, and close to your children, and they kept doing this even after you called the police and the police did nothing....

I also see you not even mentioning the attroticites committed by the Palestitian terrorists....but of course you try to claim the Palestinian terrorists "are freedom fighters".... read below...


Originally posted by dww25
Secondly, the terrorist organisations to which you refer are not necessarily perceived as that by the Palestinian population - in fact they could be considered as patriots in Palestine and the Arab world.


Really? is that why your so called "freedom fighters" hide behind civilians, use even kids for shields, and strap kids with explosives and send them towards Iaraeli positions?... phew yeah great patriots......



Originally posted by dww25
Israel was born out of terrorism post 2nd World War just ask UK forces who were subjected to terrorism in that period prior to the creation of the state. Since its formation which was sponsored by the USA to de-stabilise the Middle East and give them a surragate power broker it has been the common denominator in most Middle East conflagrations - FACT.


Israel was born from an international agreement, and before that it existed since Jewish people were an integral part of those lands for far longer than Muslims ever were...

The Palestinian terrorists, the Palestinian authority, and most of the Muslim nations in the Middle East want the total destruction of Israel.... They conquered the entire Middle East by the sword, which was not Muslim or an Arab region since there were many ethnic groups, and still are, but of course the Muslims conquered those lands by the sword, and imposed high taxes on non-Muslims, which most people couldn't pay so most people had to convert to Islam, and now the Muslim nations want to totally destroy Israel so once agian they can have the whole Middle East for them.... But the Israelis have fought them, even several Muslim nations at once, and I hope they are able to continue fighting for their nation to survive....

Israel has as much a right to exist as Palestine....but the Palestinian authorities have never agreed to any treaties that involved them accepting the Israeli nations, hence Palestine doesn't legally exist since they never agreed to any treaties....

The Israelies are surrounded, that land which they mostly BOUGHT at first was desolate, and barren, yet for decades they made Israel what it is and now the Palestinian authorities want what the Israelis made with their own sweat and blood...

LONG LIVE ISRAEL AND THE JEWISH PEOPLE LIVING THERE AND ELSEWHERE!!!!!


[edit on 8-1-2010 by ElectricUniverse]



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 10:23 AM
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Originally posted by ancient_wisdom
you people do not truly know, all you know how to do is divide, what a shame, and then you wonder why there is such dissent. Foolish mortals, this is not the work of nature, but a most unnatural force, why try and hide in the darkness what you can see illuminated by the light?


"Foolish mortals"?.... Sorry to rain on your parade but you are as mortal as every one of us... at least as long as you live in a material body that is, and that which you are now will not live eternally so stop pretending...

Do I want division?...no, I'll rather have the entire Palestinian population, the Palestinian authorities, and the entire Muslim nations agree to live in peace and allow Israel, and the Jewish people to live in peace....

I'll also rather have every NAZI realize what they are doing, and stop their stupid quests to try to dismiss, or ignore what their mentality did to cause the holocaust....but that is not going to change any time soon....

You are neither immortal, nor an awakened being, so quit pretending to be one....

[edit on 8-1-2010 by ElectricUniverse]



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 11:20 AM
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The Jewish Internet Defense Force is currently recruiting volunteers as agents to disrupt all websites and forums that criticize Israel.

Visit: www.thejidf.org

If you are interested in being an agent for The Jewish Internet Defense Force, please sign up.

You can start by hijacking this muslim thread that questions whether Zuckerberg is a Zionist or not:

www.thejidf.org...

Or by calling Obama and the administration anti-semitic for acknowledging Israel's destructive behavior:

www.thejidf.org...

Heck, if you are crying antisemitism on this thread just because the Holocaust evidence is being questioned, you already have a headstart. Sign up today!

[edit on 8-1-2010 by Glass_Eyed_Max]



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
i haven't denied anything except confidence and faith in the mainstream accepted mythos, sans solid unprejudiced evidence - and that is both my GOD-given right as well as my right as an American.


Sorry queenannie, but in one thread you have pushed the idea that Hitler may just have been a bit misunderstood, and in this one seem to be agreeing with people who call the ovens at Auschwitz a myth, and saying that you aren't seeing evidence of the holocaust even though its been presented to you.

So what are people supposed to think?

See...when I read stuff like that I exercise my god given right as an Englishman to form an opinion, and frankly from where I am sitting its one that is highly dubious of what you are writing.



furthermore, i'd think that, as a moderator, you'd be able to maintain more of a neutral attitude in any discussion here at ATS, regardless of subject matter.
or else excuse yourself.

i'm not impressed.


My being a moderator has no bearing on my opinion on this subject. I have every right to voice an opinion on it. Every moderator has opinions on one subject or another. I have not, and will not take moderator actions on this thread because i am participating as a member here.

I have no need to excuse myself from the conversation, and will not.



i made a statement in reply to another member's post. it was a valid statement and it did not imply what you are proposing it implied.


I'll take your word for that. Its all I can do.



if you truly understand as much as you portray, then Stalin's occupation of East Berlin immediately following the fall of the third reich would not seem to you to be a *secondary point*

in fact, it became the BIG ISSUE for the whole world, for the next 44 years.


The Soviet occupation of the Eastern block is irrelevant to the actions of the Nazi's before it happened and the perception of their actions, which is what this thread is about.

[edit on 8/1/10 by neformore]



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 12:33 PM
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reply to post by Glass_Eyed_Max
 


I would have joined but they refused to give me a free JIDF Coffee Mug in exchange.

What good are they if you can't get free stocking stuffers and Christmas Presents out of them!

I have to say though reading through their site, no wonder they are all so brainwashed.

Divide and conquer, divide and conquer it's the Roman way.

Hail Caesar!



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by Glass_Eyed_Max
The Jewish Internet Defense Force is currently recruiting volunteers as agents to disrupt all websites and forums that criticize Israel.

Visit: www.thejidf.org

If you are interested in being an agent for The Jewish Internet Defense Force, please sign up.

You can start by hijacking this muslim thread that questions whether Zuckerberg is a Zionist or not:

www.thejidf.org...

Or by calling Obama and the administration anti-semitic for acknowledging Israel's destructive behavior:

www.thejidf.org...

Heck, if you are crying antisemitism on this thread just because the Holocaust evidence is being questioned, you already have a headstart. Sign up today!

[edit on 8-1-2010 by Glass_Eyed_Max]



I think we already have a fair share of them on here already. You can't say anything without getting shot down in flames.




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