Down with all religion!

reply to post by russ212


Well I am an Atheist and I have nothing against people that believe in god, I feel bad because you are relying on an afterlife. As for calling Atheism a religion, well my sir it's not, I do not "believe" in anything, I trust facts or the closest thing to it, sometimes that goes with science sometimes it doesn't.

People think that Atheists "believe" in science, what exactly is there to believe in? Evolution? I can tell by the last line in your post that you have not really studied evolution or in that matter have paid to much attention to all of the studies being done as of lately.

War with religious people? I have to laugh at this statement just because religious people are fighting with faith and we are fighting with evidence, really not much of a "fight." What happened to all being adults and having grown up conversations. For some reason religious people get so upset when you talk about anything other than they believe that they will in fact start "fighting" rather than having a rational discussion they resort to being children.

And as for the fact that Christians don't bash Science...seriously don't make me laugh. The best scientists have been killed non stop by religion. They have Galileo on house arrest for the last decades of his life. Christian's in particular burned down the closest building to a library that there was and destroyed all of our information. We had to relearn everything because it contradicted the Christians way of life.

Please don't call science unprovable as you believe a man lives in the sky and hears all your thoughts. There have been many things "proven" by science. Many of the huge scientific breakthroughs in our lifetime I bet you are surrounded by. Look around from your house, T.V. computer, internet, cell phone, land phone...etc...

I will never try and destroy your beliefs simply because they are yours. I cannot change what you think no matter what evidence I have. It is your choice to think they way you do. But please do NOT demand evidence from science when you are pleased with your FAITH in god. I always wonder why religious people need evidence for everything but god...maybe you can help me answer that question.

My entire family believes in god and good for them, I just ask for them to ask questions. There is no such thing as a stupid question and to me that is what religion tells us to do, is be satisfied with knowing nothing because it is in god's hands.

You are probably a very smart and intelligent person with the ability to continuously learn all I ask is why not question religion, why would that be so bad? The more people that do it realize what it really is and that's why atheists are growing in population.

[edit on 20-12-2009 by predator0187]

[edit on 20-12-2009 by predator0187]

Originally posted by russ212
I just want to say that atheism is as much as a religion as christianity. Atheist place their faith in science and have made war on religious people since Darwin.


THERE IS NO MORE PROOF FOR THE THEORY OF MACRO EVOLUTION THAN THERE IS OF GOD

Wrong, Very very wrong.

Having faith in Christianity is not the same thing as having faith in Science, not even close.

Science can be tested, science can be proven, science has the possibility of errors, once the error is discovered ,it can be corrected. For religious people, there is no room for error in their religions, it is written, it is right, it is the absolute truth, and anybody who disagrees is beneath you and will surely perish in eternal hell.

The classic "You can't prove god DOESN'T exist" argument is old, get a new one with some kind of support other than "You just know because you know"

And as for your claim that Atheists are the only people doing the attacking, I'd advise you to take a 7th grade History class where you will learn that anybody who denied the existence of a deity was humiliated and slaughtered. If asking questions is attacking then I suppose your right, but the day we stop asking questions is the day we've really failed as a society.

Message to ALL CHRISTIANS: If an Atheist wants to debate you, walk away. I'm not saying your incapable of an intellectual conversation, but a debate requires more evidence than blind faith, you will never win, so stop trying. Just have comfort in your own faith and be done with it, your god supposedly talks about nay-sayers in the bible does he not? Follow his instructions, it's what you were born to do after all, right?

[edit on 20-12-2009 by Perplexity]

reply to post by Perplexity

Message to ALL CHRISTIANS: If an Atheist wants to debate you, walk away. I'm not saying your incapable of an intellectual conversation, but a debate requires more evidence than blind faith, you will never win, so stop trying.

A debate in which a Christian debates an Atheist on the origin of all things is really just a debate between two people who have no friggen idea what actually happened the first instant our universe came into being.

I say, shake hands and get over it. There are too many genius Christian scientist trying to prove God created it all and too many genius Atheist scientists trying to prove the Christian scientist wrong. I wonder what these people could have done for humanity.

Just have comfort in your own faith and be done with it, your god supposedly talks about nay-sayers in the bible does he not? Follow his instructions, it's what you were born to do after all, right?

Wow... You remind of the antithesis of the fundamental Christian. Loud and just as ignorant.

Some atheists just really get off on putting down Christianity. Most just move on and the rest become skeptic agnostics.

Originally posted by DINSTAAR
reply to post by Perplexity

 

A debate in which a Christian debates an Atheist on the origin of all things is really just a debate between two people who have no friggen idea what actually happened the first instant our universe came into being.

I say, shake hands and get over it. There are too many genius Christian scientist trying to prove God created it all and too many genius Atheist scientists trying to prove the Christian scientist wrong. I wonder what these people could have done for humanity.


Wow... You remind of the antithesis of the fundamental Christian. Loud and just as ignorant.

Some atheists just really get off on putting down Christianity. Most just move on and the rest become skeptic agnostics.

First, name 10 genius Christian scientists and I will counter with 50 genius Atheist scientists.

Second, call me loud all you want, it doesn't change the fact that my beliefs are much more rational and logic based than anyone who needs Religion.

How do you figure I'm ignorant?. I was raised Christian and my Grandfather tried to turn me into a minister for half of my life, I know more about Christianity and it's origins than 90% of it's followers do so you might wanna check what you type before you hit the reply button friend.

You remind me of the people who are afraid of being politically incorrect and just decide to stay in the middle because they are afraid of any sort of argument or conflict, no spine at all. Oh and any scientist that studies the field of evolution grasps a much greater understanding of where we came from than any bible thumping hypocrite.

reply to post by Perplexity

You remind me of the people who are afraid of being politically incorrect and just decide to stay in the middle because they are afraid of any sort of argument or conflict, no spine at all.

So you blindly believe that there is no possible way that an intelligent being created the universe on the basis that you have a spine? At least Christians believe in something because it 'loves them'. It is not logical or scientific to believe there is no God or that there is a God as we have absolutely no way of proving or disproving. We just need to be objective and keep discovering new things about our universe. Preconceived notions cloud judgment.

I am not saying one shouldn't have theories or ideas that include God or not. But just because the earth's surface looks flat from where you are standing, doesn't mean you can logically say that the earth is a flat plain. You don't even see the edges yet or the possibility that the earth could be a sphere.

As for not having a spine, go back one page and read my posts and ask me if I have a spine.

Oh and any scientist that studies the field of evolution grasps a much greater understanding of where we came from than any bible thumping hypocrite.

Atheists do not have a monopoly on intelligence. Some atheists* seem to believe this so adamantly. All it is is just a knee jerk reaction to hypocritical Christians.

*some atheists, not even most*

As for the rest of your statement.... You were raised Christian and that makes you an expert. That makes many people experts.

It is ignorant for an Atheist to criticize religion, when it has so many qualities alike with religious institutions... like blind faith.

Awww the ego...it's a wondrous thing is it not?

Religious man: I am saddened that you are mistaken. May God have mercy on your soul.
Atheist: I am sad that you are blind. You are just as ignorant as your god.

Ego of both men: I have surely shown this man the right path.

reply to post by DINSTAAR


The blind faith Christians possess in their beliefs is not, in any circumstance, comparable to the reality that is science and evolution. That is an expected response but anything you can find evidence of (evolution) does not share the same category as something as illogical as religion.

Religion plays a big part in our everyday lives, no matter what faith you have, so of course I'm going to criticize it, I will criticize it until the day I die because religion is nothing but a handicap to humanity, you may wish to stand idly while your society is raped of intellect but I prefer to actually try to find someone or something who can answer my question of "What is the point of religion and what good will ever come from it?" Saying it is ignorant for an Atheist to criticize religion is pretty much like saying it is ignorant for a Republican to criticize a Democrat, both are present in society and both have different views.

We make double standards for the religious, we drop our logical way of thinking and make exceptions, what a load of crap.

One day, Christians will be the minority, oh what a glorious day this will be.

edit; still waiting on your 10 christian genius scientists...

[edit on 21-12-2009 by Perplexity]

Originally posted by Perplexity
reply to post by DINSTAAR

 

The blind faith Christians posses in their beliefs is not, in any circumstance, comparable to the reality that is science and evolution. That is an expected response but anything you can find evidence of (evolution) does not share the same category as something as illogical as religion.

Religion plays a big part in our everyday lives, no matter what faith you have, so of course I'm going to criticize it, I will criticize it until the day I die because religion is nothing but a handicap to humanity, you may wish to stand idly while your society is raped of intellect but I prefer to actually try to find someone or something who can answer my question of "What is the point of religion and what good will ever come from it?" Saying it is ignorant for an Atheist to criticize religion is pretty much like saying it is ignorant for a Republican to criticize a Democrat, both are present in society and both have different views.

We make double standards for the religious, we drop our logical way of thinking and make exceptions, what a load of crap.

One day, Christians will be the minority, oh what a glorious day this will be.

edit; still waiting on your 10 christian genius scientists...

[edit on 21-12-2009 by Perplexity]

Why are people blind if they believe in God?

What if i say that you are blind for not believing there is a God.

I believe in God. But not from reading the Bible. But from doing some thinking on my own.
I also read science. But science even convinces me more that there must be a God. I guess its all about how you understand and comprehend what you read.

From science and math i have learned that there is no connection between 0 and 1. Zero being nothingness and 1 being existence.

I have also studied philosophy. And figured out that Nothingness and existence are very real. Just like 0 and 1.

Can you tell me what connection there is between 0 and 1 ?

Where does existence com from if nothingness is a infinite?

Existence is a finite. Existence is only now present time. Everything else is non existence.
If you understand science and what you have learned from reading it. Can you explain the connection between Non existence and existence?


NB. Is this statement correct: Existence is only infinite because it cant become non existing. What does that tell you about finite and infinite ( Existence and Non existence).

What if the dimension we Call God is Non existence. Can you disprove my believes with your knowledge of science?

No because science can only study existence. Non existence wont be seen within science. But they know it exists. And its very easy to understand if you think about time.
The past is non existing. The future is non existing. Only the NOW is existing. Everything else is Non existence.




[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

This thread can be boiled down to a short statement: For the Good of us, we must take away your right to believe in whatever you want to.

I have met both genius athiests and brilliant christians. I have also met horrible people both christian and athiest. There is a lot of negative that can be attributed to religion.(crusades) But the same can be said about whole nations. According to your logic we should be shouting down with Germans! Russians! Chinese! Americans! Aztecs! Spanish!

Truth is that everybody is guilty by association. The difference is, as an athiest you may feel it is your responsibility to hold a grudge or point to the horrendous acts of other groups of humans around you. As a christian you are asked to forgive.

I say let the past remain in the past. Stop blaming Religion(mainly Christianity) for your problems in life. As far as I can see while all those intellect atheists are looking at the stars and our DNA, It is the religious organizations that are feeding the poor and giving the homeless a warm bed for the night.

reply to post by spy66


...have you heard of Alfred Jarry? or maybe "pataphysics"...anyways perhaps you'll like this quote from Jarry....

"God is the tangential point between zero and infinity."

reply to post by Bilw85


Moral values were not created by Religion. The bible was man-made, *I Believe* these people simply put in what was considered immoral at the time, as a society evolves so does it's perception of what is right or wrong. Basic human instinct tells you what is right or wrong, not religion.

And I know plenty of Atheists who donate money and time to help people in need, in America and other countries, I am one of them.

[edit on 21-12-2009 by Perplexity]

I'm going to reply directly to the original post.

I see quite a few stars and flags for a mindless post. Your post shows that you don't fully understand all of religion. You make this huge blanket statement, and you get all these stars and flags. I don't get it.

I see too much of this stuff here. "Wow man, this guy is the coolest, rock on dude, he's anti-religion, anti-god. Let's give him a star and flag." For gods sake, a person slaps up a few misguided sentences, throws in some rebellious speech, and he becomes a star and flag king. I am on the "Deny Ignorance" site right?

While one cannot deny that there may be some oddball religions out there, you can't just stamp the label "bad" on all of them. That's like getting food poisoning from a hamburger and saying all hamburgers are bad. It's illogical.

To the contrary a lot of good has come out of some religious organizations. Some of these organizations have given unselfishly of themselves, and they get attacked for it. Yeah, churches give food and shelter to people in need. Yes, churches give toys to kids at Christmas time. Yes, religious organizations raise money for charities. Yes, there are religions out there who are changing peoples lives for the better....

But, some people have nothing better to do than attack religion. I can't figure it out, do you hate people that try and help other people? What is your point?

I don't think religion is the problem, it's the nuts out there who create destructive religions or have a particular religion they are associated with them, and bring bad attention to that particular religion. So, now we are supposed to think that "all of religion" is bad? Do you seriously think all Catholic priests are fondling little boys? Let's get real. The media hears about it splatters it all over the TV, then suddenly you are supposed to think "all" Catholic priests are fondling children. It's a media scare tactic. And do you think all the folks in the Islamic religion are running around with bombs strapped around their waists?

Seriously. Insanity is our problem, not the fact that we have religions.

Troy

[edit on 21-12-2009 by cybertroy]

reply to post by cybertroy


Good post Troy, I like your hamburger analogy.

It seems that many advocates of religions always like to defend the fact that religious organizations give, which indeed they do, and there is nothing wrong with that. I certainly promote things of that nature and actively donate to certain organizations and give some time to help the less fortunate in my area. The problem with this is, many people do this, not just the Church. I will admit I've never witnessed an all atheist group donating things to the homeless or anything like that, but how many Atheist groups are there world wide compared to Churches? I do it for no other reason than my own personal need to help out the less fortunate, not for hidden agenda, not for recognition, not for brownie points with god. Are these Churches doing it because they feel it will benefit them in the long run? I believe they are, so in a sense, they are doing it for their own gain (in the "afterlife").

Perhaps I'm over analyzing but the gracious Church argument sounds like a double edged sword to me.

reply to post by Perplexity


While I do not doubt that there are good-hearted atheists out there that truly feel compassionate towards their fellow brethren, I just don't find them in the numbers that I do with the religious. Perhaps you can accredit that to the overwhelming number of religious individuals vrs those that are atheist....I don't know.

Also, I don't think religion has a monopoly on moral values either. Morality is a virtue of life. If we were instinctual beings, then maybe morality wouldn't be such a virtue, but alas, we're not instinctual, we're logical and reasonable beings(for the most part).

How many atheists go to prisons and inspire prisoners to turn from whatever may have got them there in the first place? I don't know many....

While there may be atheistic activists within groups like Habitat for Humanity and The Salvation Army, these organisations are still founded upon core religious beliefs and doctrines.

How many atheists helped primitive cultures understand about the evils of cannibalism? How many of the first 123 educational institutions in colonial america were, by creed, ATHEIST? (hint: all of them but 1 were "Christian"...)

In fact, just a quick google of "atheists reach out" turns up very little in terms of community out-reach and charitable work. In fact, it turns up sites like online.wsj.com... and cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com... with pictures like [atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e3bfa508cca8.jpg[/atsimg] which clearly support an ulterior agenda, something dissimilar to what the religious side of the house do. The religious reach out to the needy, the poor, the victims....the atheists reach out to those who are deemed as "brainwashed" or "misguided"....it's just not the same.

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by spy66

 

...have you heard of Alfred Jarry? or maybe "pataphysics"...anyways perhaps you'll like this quote from Jarry....

"God is the tangential point between zero and infinity."

To be honest i cant remember if i have. I have done to much reading through time

But i have thought about the quote Jerry made. Without remembering that it was from him.

And that is:
God cant be between Zero and infinity. If God was in between. God must have been created by a third unknown existence bigger then him self. That means a existence that is even closer to zero then God would be.

Zero is the only dimension that cant change. God must be Zero " Non existence".

Well its the only explanation that would fit. Since God never changes.

And it also explains how God can see everything. Because from a observation point of Zero you can see all of existence "1".

But from a observation point of 1 "Existence" we can't measure the beginning Zero. Because its all around us.

It would probably be easier to look into the future to figure out the beginning since nothingness "Non existence" is right in front of us all the time.



[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


To Pigeonhole any group like that isn't exactly fair, especially in a discussion where one group is 50 times larger than the other.

I'm confident if we were to do a percentile comparison of Christians who donate versus Atheists who donate we'd get a very even number. For the most part (excluding a few slaughters here and a few slaughters there) the bible promotes leading a good life and loving thy fellow man. All fine and dandy, but Atheism doesn't promote the opposite of that message either, so as far as morals go we should be considered on equal ground here.

You say you don't know of many Atheist charities, or people going out in the name of Atheism and helping people, well why would they? Throwing a label on something like that just shows a need for attention from others. THAT my friend, is the ulterior agenda. When myself and fellow Atheist friends do charity work we do it in the name of ourselves, we aren't excluding or including anybody for any reasons, throwing a label on something as gracious as charity seems like an attention seeking method rather than a genuine act of kindness in my opinion.

Edit: In the colonial America you speak of, it was almost impossible to be open about any Atheistic views one may have if they valued their reputation, or life. And I don't have a clear answer for your cannibal question, but neither do you. Also, (I'm ignorant on this next question) Is it a fact that Habitat for Humanity and Salvation Army were founded on Christian beliefs? Or just an assumption?

2nd edit: This link is just an example, I know all Christians don't think this way, but just look at how some of these people are bashing T4T, feel free to try and google me up any Atheist bashing someone doing a charitable act:

www.landoverbaptist.net...

[edit on 21-12-2009 by Perplexity]

[edit on 21-12-2009 by Perplexity]

reply to post by Wertdagf


Religion can be a force for good and a great comfort to people, spiritually and practically, usually at times of greatest need, but also can be force for great wrongdoing and what many would consider to be acts worthy of the title 'evil'. And ironically enough, at the same time!

The trick here, at least i think so, is to realise that religion may originally have been a control mechanism, a way to suppress dissidence and direct people, but it also has genuine positive benefits today. It gives people hope..a sense of purpose and belonging but like anything else it depends on what people are involved and what their agenda might be.

Saving people's souls...or controlling people's destiny? Sometimes, they may be the same thing in some people's eyes. The end justifies the means way of reasoning. Well...that doesn't always apply.

Bottom line for me is that people will believe what they believe, whether that's a result of conditioning from birth, or an adult choice, but as time and technology step along and upwards, the superstitious character of belief will change and with it, hopefully real knowledge will replace fear and reward based beliefs.

I couldn't agree more.
I wish everyone shared our views.
The world would be a much more peaceful place.
What, without all the wars and all?

reply to post by cybertroy


Yes, there are a lot of people who help people.

Thank the Lord for that.

reply to post by Perplexity


I agree that the religious do not have a monopoly on charity or morals. The labeling however, is not self-imposed. I believe whoever does the "reporting" of the charitable acts simply mentions that these groups are Christian. Like you said, you're ignorant of the fact of whether or not Habitat for Humanity and The Salvation Army were founded by Christians..and that is only because NO ONE MENTIONS IT....

But in fact, they are....

•We are a nonprofit, ecumenical Christian ministry founded on the conviction that every man, woman and child should have a decent, safe and affordable place to live. We build with people in need regardless of race or religion. We welcome volunteers and supporters from all backgrounds.
The concept that grew into Habitat for Humanity International was born at Koinonia Farm, a small, interracial, Christian community outside of Americus, Georgia. Koinonia Farm was founded in 1942 by farmer and biblical scholar Clarence Jordan.

www.habitat.org...

William Booth embarked upon his ministerial career in 1852, desiring to win the lost multitudes of England to Christ. He walked the streets of London to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ to the poor, the homeless, the hungry, and the destitute.

Booth abandoned the conventional concept of a church and a pulpit, instead taking his message to the people. His fervor led to disagreement with church leaders in London, who preferred traditional methods. As a result, he withdrew from the church and traveled throughout England, conducting evangelistic meetings. His wife, Catherine, could accurately be called a cofounder of The Salvation Army.

www.salvationarmyusa.org...


Your statement that you were ignorant of the fact these were Christian groups just goes to show that Christians don't have that ulterior motive either. They do it out of their hearts...and not because they want to "fit a label".