TEQUILAsunrise - AKA Norway Spiral - Proof it was a scientific experiment.

Originally posted by JayinAR
Out of curiosity, why does everyone rag on Phage so much?
Do you guys realize he is, in my estimation, one of the best contributors to this website?

The simple facts of the matter are that most of the time, when we are dealing with these subjects of "mysterious" things, there is a perfectly plausible and very down to Earth answer for them. He has been spot on more times than I can remember.

It sure would be a shame to lose his contributions because a bunch of douchebags on the internet ran him off.

Anyhow, like I said before, this is pretty cool information (threw that in to not be completely off topic).

Just because someone is right 90% of the time doesnt mean they are right 100% of the time. Just as it is his self proclaimed duty to look for the mundane answer (which i respect greatly as it brings a sense of balance to the issue) there are also people such as my self who like to look at the opposite spectrum of the issue. I usually like to assume most strange and unexplained phenomena have a mundane answer but in this instance i would have to argue that there is no way IN MY OPINION that this was a missile.

It is also dangerous to venerate a person to such a level where their answer is taken as gospel truth. Nobody knows everything not even Phage. Granted he is one of the most well read individuals i have ever seen on this or any other forum but that still doesnt mean he is infallible.

Again i dont know what this was but it was not a missile going off course


[edit on 15-12-2009 by TiM3LoRd]

This new theory will also be debunked today...

The reason?

We don't know what happened, the internet can't tell us and the official story isn't likely to change.

So you guys are going to keep debunking then rebunking all sorts of nonsense, while the rest of us just agree that, while odd and beautiful, this was just a failed Russian missile launch.

reply to post by CINY8


The Norway spiral images we see are perpendicular to the ground. The waves spirals by EISCAT or the similar HAARP that are shown by computer graphics seem to be horizontal to the ground. I just wanted to point that out.

Second point, a rocket burn would illuminate until it was done burning. If the rocket malfunctioned, as admitted depending upon news source, it could very well have gone over Norway, a rather embarassing malfunction IMHO.

Now there are publically listed experiments, but one has to remember the funding for these projects started with star wars back in the 80s. If there is a classified aspect it would not be published on a web site. From the Venturi show on HAARP, it sounded like the technology was developed to knock down missiles.

So far I'm still in the missile camp. I have to understand how spiraling radio waves get aurora type ions to move in a spiral fashion. I am still open to looking at evidence EISCAT might have knocked down the missile. Usually electronics are made to resist counter measures, but I suppose if you used maximum power and created an EMP locally, it might work against a missile.

If I bring back cold war thinking for a minute, I would have asked to use the Norwegian facility, I would have found a way of changing the missile's course so I could knock it down, a test in itself, and then pick up the pieces for further study.

The visual evidence indicates missile gone wild to me. But EISCAT adds the conspiracy above top secret dimension.

I have scanned this thread and like so many other INFORMATIVE THREADS it has been hijacked and the wolves are getting stuck in.

If anybody is out there that wants to talk about the OP please can we get back on subject in particular the question posed by the OP at the end of the thread. For those of you that haven't a clue what I am talking about:

Ok.. so now the question is still.. Why lie about it?

Why lie about it indeed, could this be just one cog in the machine that will drive Project Bluebeam?

Originally posted by GW8UK

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by watcher73

 

Yes.
With VHF radar (VHF). Not the heater (HEA).

Phage works for the gov. End of!

Brilliant research btw, i theorised that, that is what happened during the first thread on the spiral.
Considering the last one of these happened over russia i believe that this is %100 what happened.

COME ON! Kudos for the OP for that incredible research!

So bloody what if Phage works for the Gov? So do I!!

Working in public office doesn't mean you're a disinfo agent. Do you really believe that the Gov have every employee in their pocket?

Phage has given solid facts that the experiment didn't use the heater on that day. End of!

First of all, I think the OP has done a good job of trying to explain things and it was an interesting read. I dont mean to be labelled as a boring debunker, but there are so many faults in the maths alone, not to mention the logic behind this theory.

The tauristercus post which you base most of your information on is flawed in many ways and makes many illogical presumptions which conveniently fit in with his theory.

First things first, his flight path (which is totally wrong), goes through sweden and finland. This is not true. The rocket was launched from a submarine near Kandalaksha and passed North over Severomorsk being careful not to enter foreign airspace. This has already been proved by sightings from russian newsreports on the original thread (look it up). The reason it travelled North initially is so that it could take a sea route to its target, rather than risk a rocket failing over a populated area. From this flight path, it can be visible from Norway just as it leaves Russian Airspace.

In response to his claims that the event took place directly over norway... The rocket was at a relatively high altitude and could be seen from Russia and North Finland as well. The problem is that there is noone there to see it. North Finland and North Russia have incredibly sparse populations who would most definately not have a video camera ready even if they were around to see it. The sun can be seen from France, does that mean the sun is directly over france? No, its just a high altitude that gives that effect. The rocket was still over russia even though it was seen in Norway.

His height/distance calculations are also very wrong, Here is what he said:

"For someone of average height standing at sea level, the distance to the horizon is approximately 5 kms.

Let's use the above calculation and rearrange it so that instead of determining the distance to the horizon, we use it instead to calculate the height.

Now, the distance from Tromso, Norway to the White Sea is approximately 800 kms. Plugging this value into the rearranged equation tells us that to be able to see the "exhaust plume" created at the White Sea from a distance of 800 kms, that the height of the plume will need to extend an incredible 40 kms into the upper atmosphere. If that wasn't bad enough, to be able to visually see that plume, it would imply that the exhaust plume had a width in excess of 10 kilometres !!"

Firstly, the rocket plume would have been way over 40kms high. That is quite normal for ICBMs. In fact an altitude of 40km is quite low for them. This bit I can perhaps agree with, but why would the plume need to be 10km wide in order for it to be visible. Thats quite a ridiculous statement. The great wall of china can be seen from space and is only a few tens of meters wide. Your calculations also presume that the rocket went straight up vertically which it doesnt. It takes a high arc towards its target which does not maintain a constant position over the horizen which means the calculations you made are invalid.

Secondly this statement is also outright false: "The images from Tromso show the "exhaust plume" clearly as extending skywards from behind a range of hills. The width and clearly visible details of the plume give all appearances of the originating cause being reasonably close by ... and not originating 800 kms away"

The plume came from over the horizen, you cannot see its origin, just a mid point in flight which is cuttoff as your field of view ends. This does not mean that it was launched from where the plume intersects the horizen, i.e. the hills you mentioned.

Continued in next post...

Again, more baseless presumptions:"If we make the reasonable assumption (based on visible structure and details of the exhaust) that in fact, the origin of the exhaust is approximately at a distance commensurate with the horizon (or perhaps just over), then the horizon calculations give us a distance from Tromso to the exhaust plume location of approximately 5 - 15 kms."

YOU CANNOT SEE THE ORIGIN OF THE PLUME! So you cannot say how far away it is. Perhaps the plume in your field of view is 5-15km away but that doesnt mean it was the launchsite. This also invalidates the rather dubious triangulation attempt, which according to random presumptions picked from thin air leads to EISCAT. An organisation, which allows open tours and publishes all of their research for use by the international scientific community. An organisation so secret and powerful that it announces its tests of mass destruction atmospheric weapons online a few days before and decides to show half of norway before writing about it in an online blog. Hmmmm. Doesnt really fit.

If you take time to look at the dozens of videos that have been posted on here of other rocket failures you will see similarities to the rather pretty version shown in norway. These spirals were even reported in 1945 when the german V rockets failed over london. They are nothing new and definately not some sort of massive secret wormhole death weapon, or whatever you think it is.

Again, I dont want to flame you, that isnt my intention but I think your research is very biased and has misled a lot of gullible people. It was a rocket launch, disappointing I know, but more logical than anything that has been explained here.

reply to post by Pryde87


I think its plausible to say that there is sufficient evidence to suggest that this was something other than a rocket/missile and indeed we need to explore every avenue in order to draw a conclusion. The OP has provided one such avenue.

Can I ask did you register today simply for this thread? forgive my impertinence but I always get suspicious when newly registered people follow the ones that have been labelled 'skeptics' 'shills' 'debunkers' by others.

Mod Note: Please Stay on Topic

[edit on Tue Dec 15 2009 by DontTreadOnMe]

I agree that there are some strange things about this case and I would like to believe it was something more but people are now throwing in so much false information, like the mentioned thread, that it is confusing people and bluring the lines between truth and lie (or innaccurate presumption). I believed at the start that this could never have been a rocket, but then once you look at the information present, the rocket case is supported by so much evidence that you honestly cant ignore it.

And I have already been a member for a while, but havent been on for ages and lost my login details, so I registered again

Just to clarify, I have nothing against the OPs post, just the info he used to justify it. I think speculating on what it could be is great and the whole point of ATS but as long as we stick to the facts at hand. Otherwise we wont get anything but fantasy fairy tales.

[edit on 15-12-2009 by Pryde87]

Not this rubbish again. It was a Russian missile test gone awry. Nothing more. No weather modification, no nothing. Just a lot of red Russian faces.

First of all, my conviction does not come from the other topic (very good explanation on the first page) regarding this subject on ATS (www.abovetopsecret.com...).

There´s no way it´s an outgoing missile. If it were, the spiral would be inverse, nor it would be so precise and nor it would create the black hole effect in the end.

The spiral seemed to be perfectly constant, like an experiment.

Originally posted by Cetico
First of all, my conviction does not come from the other topic (very good explanation on the first page) regarding this subject on ATS (www.abovetopsecret.com...).

There´s no way it´s an outgoing missile.

Opinion

If it were, the spiral would be inverse...

Conjecture

...nor it would be so precise...

Opinion

...and nor it would create the black hole effect in the end.

Opinion

The spiral seemed to be perfectly constant, like an experiment.

Opinion

[edit on 15-12-2009 by seethelight]

Originally posted by franspeakfree
reply to post by Pryde87

 

I think its plausible to say that there is sufficient evidence to suggest that this was something other than a rocket/missile and indeed we need to explore every avenue in order to draw a conclusion. The OP has provided one such avenue.

Can I ask did you register today simply for this thread? forgive my impertinence but I always get suspicious when newly registered people follow the ones that have been labelled 'skeptics' 'shills' 'debunkers' by others.

I've highlighted the pertinent information in your post ^^^^^

Originally posted by nik1halo
Phage has given solid facts that the experiment didn't use the heater on that day. End of!

No he hasn't... he's given evidence... the EISCAT website is conflicting with more evidence to the fact that their intention was to use the heater... No one will ever be able to say for a fact either way.

the "god" is here! creating the end times prophecies for the superstitious. lol hurry everyone, look awestruck.

This video Made me come to the conclusion (days ago) that it was in fact a failed missile test.

WATCH IT! ( its a 3dsmax simulation made by a rocket scientist) !

To bad, indeed....Yeah i'dd rather have it be aliens, or something else more spectacular..but unfortunalty reason wins against fantasy and conspiracies...

I'dd like to give Phage a thumbs up for his work in this thread

Originally posted by XyZeR
This video Made me come to the conclusion (days ago) that it was in fact a failed missile test.

WATCH IT! ( its a 3dsmax simulation made by a rocket scientist) !

To bad, indeed....Yeah i'dd rather have it be aliens, or something else more spectacular..but unfortunalty reason wins against fantasy and conspiracies...

I'dd like to give Phage a thumbs up for his work in this thread

i concur with the video. The video was well done and the explanation was right on target.

60% of the norwegian people dident even register en event this day.. so sad to be norsk. (norwegian)

Originally posted by wtfhuh
Dan, geez this was a ALL posted in the original thread ( your latest Lidar link and sounding rockets, etc, etc).

Its like im re-reading what I wrote 3 days ago.

Don't you just hate it when that happens?

wtfhuh's thread is the gold mine of information regarding this "Norway Spiral", it really annoys me when there are like 10 threads talking about the same thing. wtfhuh's thread should have been used for all information regarding the Norway Spiral.

I have noticed that approx 80% of the people in these threads have never actually read wtfhuh's thread and are too damn lazy (and have admitted it) to read over 100 pages on the Norway Spiral report.
No wonder most of you are all confused, information here...information there...information right...left...instead of all in one spot.

As they say, "Keep it simple, stupid".

All evidence suggests its a rocket, however as much as I would like to believe its a wormhole I would tend to believe that it would be an atmospheric weapon, to heat up all the clouds to bring on a drought "somewhere". More evidence suggests it evaporates clouds, more so than evidence suggesting its a damn wormhole lol.

Rocket evidence: PROVED
Cloud Evaporation: PROVED (Plasma Heater)
Wormhole: 0.00000000%
Bonus to conspiracy theorists: The governments LIED

They lied, they always do. Its either a rocket, or a weather modification tool, or both.

[edit on 15/12/2009 by the_denv]

Originally posted by XyZeR
This video Made me come to the conclusion (days ago) that it was in fact a failed missile test.

WATCH IT! ( its a 3dsmax simulation made by a rocket scientist) !

To bad, indeed....Yeah i'dd rather have it be aliens, or something else more spectacular..but unfortunalty reason wins against fantasy and conspiracies...

I'dd like to give Phage a thumbs up for his work in this thread

You're kidding right? You're going to base your opinion of something that occurred in reality off of a poor computer animation??? Really? Now, if someone had come in here, and posted a UFO thread where they claim that they saw a UFO, but the only piece of evidence they had to back their claim was a crappy piece of animation...what would you say then???

I'm just curious...