Tehran's Spiral

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Is 27th a special day?

I will mark it down on my calendar. Quite a few details you gave as well.

It's the 27th.

What do you think now?

Judging by initial news reports I am partially right and partially wrong, how right or how wrong events will yet have to bear out.

Clearly something huge is happening in Iran today!

Clearly its getting a lot of help from the West!

Clearly the day is not over.

Yet one thing remains the 27th is in fact proving to be a significant date!

I know it's simply amazing how I do it!

All you did was be wrong. Its now the 28th in Israel and Iran.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Navy Battle Ship shelling.

The U.S. doesn't have any Battleships in service.

The U.S. nor Israel will attack Iran during these protests as it doesn't take a 12 year education in foreign policy to figure out doing so is just a bad idea. It would unite them as a country. As an American, I may protest my government at a Tea Party, but if my country was attacked during the protest I would put down my picket and pick up a gun. Why would you expect anything less from any other man or woman, from any other country?

Also, why does everyone think we have a part to play in this? This is between the Iranian government and the Iranian people. Plain and simple.

In my opinion - I would assume that if (big if there) a new regime were to come to power in Iran one of the first steps they would take is trading off the nuclear program for international recognition and support. The nuclear program is the very reason Iran is broke!!

Also, lets remember that these protests consists largely of younger, educated Iranians and do not represent the views of a large part of the country.

My prediction? There will be no attack - just a slow rot from the inside.

Originally posted by crisko
Also, lets remember that these protests consists largely of younger, educated Iranians and do not represent the views of a large part of the country.

My prediction? There will be no attack - just a slow rot from the inside.

I agree...

It seems to me that the "Revolutionary guards" have forgotten what it took to get them in power. Rotting from inside is what appears to be happening. As far as the "Majority" of Iranians go. We don't know what they want. We are only seeing a tiny bit on Youtube/Twitter. These come from the larger Cities.

At this point we don't know what the more urban and rural areas are doing or know how they feel.

Time will tell.

reply to post by crisko

Also, why does everyone think we have a part to play in this? This is between the Iranian government and the Iranian people. Plain and simple.

Gee I don't know

The New Yorker's Seymour Hersh reports on how the Bush Administration has stepped up covert operations against Iran:

Late last year, Congress agreed to a request from President Bush to fund a major escalation of covert operations against Iran, according to current and former military, intelligence, and congressional sources. These operations, for which the President sought up to four hundred million dollars, were described in a Presidential Finding signed by Bush, and are designed to destabilize the country's religious leadership. The covert activities involve support of the minority Ahwazi Arab and Baluchi groups and other dissident organizations. They also include gathering intelligence about Iran's suspected nuclear-weapons program.

Clandestine operations against Iran are not new. United States Special Operations Forces have been conducting cross-border operations from southern Iraq, with Presidential authorization, since last year. These have included seizing members of Al Quds, the commando arm of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, and taking them to Iraq for interrogation, and the pursuit of "high-value targets" in the President's war on terror, who may be captured or killed. But the scale and the scope of the operations in Iran, which involve the Central Intelligence Agency and the Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC), have now been significantly expanded, according to the current and former officials. Many of these activities are not specified in the new Finding, and some congressional leaders have had serious questions about their nature.

Huffingtonpost.com

It just so happens to be a matter of public record that the United States Congress has authorized over 8 billion yes billion dollars for covert activities to destabilize the Iranian regime.

The incredible thing is people actually star such ludicrous statements and questions.

Do you really think 8 billion dollars of just the over the table funds employed to destabilize the Iranian Regime through the CIA was just a way to fritter away 8 billion dollars?

The truth is 3 hours into Iran’s election the opposition candidate was declaring fraud. How do you declare fraud in an election that has just started?

reply to post by SLAYER69


Of course it is CIA/ISI/MI5/MI6/Mossad plot..didnt you see the Jimmy Johns advertisement at the bottom of the video?

Remember its so close to your face neither you nor I can see it in plain view.

Ads by Google?
nahhhh. not GOOGLE !
vaticanboardgame.com

Wall Street Journal Free Online

Tea Party Protests




[edit on 27-12-2009 by superluminal11]

Okay, perhaps I misstated. Yes, there is funding to help with "movements" that are aligned with our interests in Iran, but this is also true with N. Korea, Burma, Venezuela, Cuba - the list goes on.

I should rephrase and state that aside from normal Intel gathering activities, we are not playing a role in this.

During the riots of the early 90's, would you have gone so far to say that it was funded by other governments? I wouldn't have. What lines of similarity can be drawn here? Both were / are groups of people who were not satisfied with a decision(s) made by the government. Both groups felt / feel that they were / are not being represented.

I do not see this as the downfall of the Theocracy - I do not see that happening until the Supreme Leader passes on from this world.

Now, should these riots and the Green Movement behind them reach a critical mass, a tipping point if you would, then yes I would expect intervention from foreign powers.

Until I see information indicating otherwise, I going to view this civil unrest as temporary - as the people venting frustration. We all vent frustration from time to time, does it ever change the game? Rarely. Do we feel better after wards? Almost always.

reply to post by crisko


Laugh out loud

Do you actually understand what covert operations are?

Have you actually even read any of the Freedom of Information Act Documents pertaining to our initiatives in Iran?

Did you even read the story from the link I provided?

We are spending a fortune on ACTIVELY trying to instigate a revolution in Iran and we have DONE IT BEFORE!

I live in Miami not along De Nile. What's it like there in Egypt? Is it as hot as they say?



I forgot some people do better with videos!

[edit on 27/12/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Thread Update

Iran protests turn violent as demonstrators confront police

By Borzou Daragahi and Ramin Mostaghim December 28, 2009
Reporting from Tehran and Beirut - The months-long confrontation between Iran's budding opposition movement and a hard-line government determined to stamp it out escalated sharply over the weekend, as parts of the capital became engulfed in fiery political protest and demonstrations broke out across the country on the occasion of an important Shiite religious holiday.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Well Al Jazeera states in the report they can not verify when or where the video was taken.

However todays forecast in Iran was sunny clear skies and highs in the mid fifties.

The skies don't look to sunny in that video to me!

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

The skies don't look to sunny in that video to me!

I can't vouch for the authenticity of the video. You can rest assured that it was fairly recent. The Iranians are wearing coats and jackets. Obviously this isn't the same crowd from the spring/summer protests.


[edit on 27-12-2009 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by SLAYER69


Who says they are Iranians or in Iran that could have been filmed by a studio in Lahure Pakistan!

After all 8 billion in funding for covert activities can buy a whole lot of things.

They tell me that the women are absolutely beautiful in Lahure!

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Who says they are Iranians or in Iran that could have been filmed by a studio in Lahure Pakistan!

Oh come now...

Let's man up and admit that it is possible that the Iranians are tired of their Government. Not everything in the world is a conspiracy you know.



[edit on 27-12-2009 by SLAYER69]

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by crisko

 

Laugh out loud

Do you actually understand what covert operations are?

Have you actually even read any of the Freedom of Information Act Documents pertaining to our initiatives in Iran?

Yes, I do have a great understanding of what covert ops are.

That is not what we are doing in Iran (regarding the protests). The subject is of civil unrest in Iran. Have no doubt there are sneaky sneak operations going on in Iran regarding the Nuclear issue - but that has no bearing on this subject.

You can't mix the two, as they are not related.

[edit on 27-12-2009 by crisko]

reply to post by SLAYER69


Yes everything in the world is a conspiracy.

For instance once upon a time on ATS there was this really cool guy with a great open mind who would author some incredible threads about great games and other very cutting edge stuff.

Then some Zionists conspired to get him to join the Israeli Internet Defense Force.

Wow talk about a metamorphous!

I figured times must have gotten tough, and the guy needed a few extra dollars.

You see my friend why everything is a conspiracy is everyone has an agenda!

When it’s a shared agenda they conspire. A revolution by the way is a conspiracy. Yet the truth is that revolutions aren’t really all the word romantically conjures up. Ask the emaciated half starving people of Cuba how some revolutions go.

You see the people who lead revolutions and fund revolutions don’t always share the same agenda as the masses they exploit and extol to fight them beyond just hope and change.

Sometimes they have an entirely different agenda than what the people are led to believe who support that revolution.

The Powers that Be simply want to put the Shah’s son back on the throne and they will sooner or later. They are after all very determined men with the ability to spend any amount of money since the money comes courtesy of the increasingly impoverished U.S. Taxpayer.

I miss my old friend. He was quite a guy.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Yes everything in the world is a conspiracy.

For instance once upon a time on ATS there was this really cool guy with a great open mind who would author some incredible threads about great games and other very cutting edge stuff.

Then some Zionists conspired to get him to join the Israeli Internet Defense Force.

Wow talk about a metamorphous!

Relax, I'm still the same lovable guy...

However. I'm not entirely convinced that little GWB plan would have this drastic of an effect. I think they have hit a nerve with the Iranian people. The Persians are not that feeble minded to be that easily influenced.

There had to have been a deeper underlying resentment that has festered and is now boiling over.



[edit on 27-12-2009 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by crisko

That is not what we are doing in Iran (regarding the protests). The subject is of civil unrest in Iran. Have no doubt there are sneaky sneak operations going on in Iran regarding the Nuclear issue - but that has no bearing on this subject.

Please state your position with the United States Government and the authority of the Office in which you make such statements or...

State the fact that is simply your humble unqualified opinion.

It is patently absurd to imagine any of us without top secret clearance and in the loop on these covert initiatives in Iran know precisely what is going on.

It is tragically flawed to pretend in absence of being on the ground in Iran and being able to speak the language and having a network of credible people within Iran to pretend one knows what is going on and who is driving what and for what agenda.

I can appreciate that your opinion is your opinion. It is however just an opinion and not one qualified on anything beyond pure wishful thinking.

The United States and the United Kingdom and Israel are spending massive dollars inside of Iran to ferment unrest.

It is clearly a laid out Presidential Initiative that was taken before Congress to get the funding that’s all a matter of public record and you can bet your bottom dollar that one of those three governments would do anything in its power to seed, fund, equip and enable ANY opposition group within Iran.

In my humble opinion after reviewing the actual available information, thanks!

Originally posted by SLAYER69
The Persians are not that feeble minded to be that easily influenced.

Feeble minded they are not, if I am correct (correct me if I am wrong), it was the Persians who authored Algebra.

Yes, we have funded, and will continue to fund dissident groups in various countries all over the world, but this has been going on for decades. The whole purpose of sanctions is to weaken and destabilize.

That said, I highly doubt we would play a hand with these unfolding events in Iran as that would work counter to the concessions we have been handing out like candy in an attempt to regain our standing in the world.

No one likes war, and not matter the side people will soon tire of those who wage it. This has been the case for the last 30 - 40 years.

The only way for Iran to be beaten is through it's people, we cannot do this with "drones, air strikes and tomahawk missiles". Our country wouldn't stand for it.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by crisko

 

That is not what we are doing in Iran (regarding the protests). The subject is of civil unrest in Iran. Have no doubt there are sneaky sneak operations going on in Iran regarding the Nuclear issue - but that has no bearing on this subject.

Please state your position with the United States Government and the authority of the Office in which you make such statements or...

State the fact that is simply your humble unqualified opinion.

Weren't you the guy who "predicted" a war with Iran on the 27th?

You are not is a position to cast stones if I may say so myself.

reply to post by SLAYER69


You have no idea what the real news out of Iran is my friend. It's not available through the mainstream media or the Iranian media.

I have friends who are ex-SAVAK and they very much are involved at this point in instigating what they can over there.

They don't paint as rosey a picture as the mainstream media does though on just how that is going.

There is a huge push on and its all out of the U.S., the U.K., and Israel I myself wouldn't stake my life on what's going on over there without spending some actual time on the ground.

In these kinds of situations if you want to know what is really happening on the ground you have to have your own eyeballs on it, or someone loyal and directly in your employ.

To do anything less is just falling into the hands of the manipulators behind the scenes without really knowing the endgame they manipulators are after.

The Mullahs aren't the end all be all but they have kept the nation stable.

Who knows what a transformation would yield.

reply to post by crisko


The guy who said it was his opinion, and the guy who also said he hoped he would be wrong!

Yes I would be that person.

State your sources or offer them as opinion because without sources that is all they are is opinion.

Opinions are welcome, debate is welcome, broad authoritarian statements are rejected out of hand.

This is all the same nonsense that got us bankrupt and mired down in Iraq and Afghanistan, and it's simply irresponsible to make authorative generalizations that are in fact contrary to our own foreign policy and programs and funded initiatives that are all part of public record and documented.