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Tehran's Spiral

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posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 08:30 PM
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Originally posted by December_Rain
Jewish laws states ALL NON-JEWS must submit too and pay tribute to the Jews... But what happens if a group of people don't want to be Humiliated? what if a group of people want their religious freedoms and not be treated as lesser than? Forced off their lands and out of their homes?They refuse and in there arrogance the Israeli's thinking they have a god given right to all we cows...err no goyem..I mean non-jew... label us enemy... Okay I know most Jews are not this way.. I'm talking about the hard liners here... So go easy on all the hate mail K


Tell your Stormfront pals to cool it with their Talmudic studies. Some of the passages quoted don't exist, some taken out of context, all written something like 2000 years ago in a very different world.

Exactly where do you think anyone practices any of these laws?

When you stop foaming at the mouth you might want to read the real events of the period you're so busy rending your garments over. 850,000 Jews were thrown out of their homes from Arab countries their families lived in for centuries. No one seems to be troubled about that. What really occurred when the British turned over the Palestinian mandate to Jews, including tens of thousands who had live there for centuries - you are obviously incapable of understanding.



[edit on 15-12-2009 by mmiichael]




posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 08:32 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Why stereotype..I am just repeating what you are saying by exchanging Jew with Islam. If you think that s stereotyping then you really got to see what you say.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 08:36 PM
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Originally posted by DaddyBare
Did you guys not read any of my post?

"...to spare the blood (of the Zimmis), to be a symbol of humiliation of the infidels and as an insult and punishment to them, and as the Shafi`ites indicate, the Jizya is offered in exchange for residing in an Islamic country." Thus Ibn Qayyim adds, "Since the entire religion belongs to God, it aims at humiliating ungodliness and its followers, and insulting them. Imposing the Jizya on the followers of ungodliness and oppressing them is required by God's religion. The Qur'anic text hints at this meaning when it says: `until they give the tribute by force with humiliation.' (Qur'an 9:29). What contradicts this is leaving the infidels to enjoy their might and practice their religion as they wish so that they would have power and authority."



Originally posted by mmiichael
Originally posted by December_Rain
Jewish laws states ALL NON-JEWS must submit too and pay tribute to the Jews... But what happens if a group of people don't want to be Humiliated? what if a group of people want their religious freedoms and not be treated as lesser than? Forced off their lands and out of their homes?They refuse and in there arrogance the Israeli's thinking they have a god given right to all we cows...err no goyem..I mean non-jew... label us enemy... Okay I know most Jews are not this way.. I'm talking about the hard liners here... So go easy on all the hate mail K


Tell your Stormfront pals to cool it with their Talmudic studies. Some of the passages quoted don't exist, some taken out of context, all written something like 2000 years ago in a very different world.

Exactly where do you think anyone practices any of these laws?

When you stop foaming at the mouth you might want to real the real events of the period you're so busing rending your garments over. 850,000 Jews were thrown out of their homes from Arab countries their families lived in for centuries. No one seems to be troubled about that. What really occurred when the British turned over the Palestinian mandate to Jews, including tens of thousands who had live there for centuries as well - you are obviously incapable of understanding.



Tell your Zionist pals to cool it with their Islamic studies. Some of the passages quoted don't exist in Quran, some taken out of context, all written something like 2000 years ago in a very different world.

Exactly where do you think anyone practices any of these laws?

When you stop foaming at the mouth you might want to real the real events of the period you're so busing rending your garments over. Millions of Palestinians were thrown out of their homes from Palestine their families lived in for centuries. No one seems to be troubled about that. What really occurred when the British turned over the Palestinian land mandate to Jews and Palestinians, including tens of thousands who had live there for centuries as well - you are obviously incapable of understanding.


Edit to add: What the funny thing is the post you replied me back to was actually written by one of your pal and I only exchanged Muslim with Jew in it. So what you were replying to me was actually a reply to DadyBare for this post www.abovetopsecret.com...
oh the irony !!!!

[edit on 15-12-2009 by December_Rain]

[edit on 15-12-2009 by December_Rain]

[edit on 15-12-2009 by December_Rain]



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by December_Rain
Tell your Zionist pals to cool it with their Islamic studies. Some of the passages quoted don't exist in Quran, some taken out of context, all written something like 2000 years ago in a very different world.

Exactly where do you think anyone practices any of these laws?



You know I don't think I ever met a real life Zionist. Only people I know of with such vast expertise on Jewish liturgical writings of the ancient past and the Zionist movement for a Jewish homeland - are on conspiracy sites.

Never quoted the Koran. A somewhat disturbing book of the 7th Century from what I've read.

But I am aware there are whole countries that still consider the Koran their Law of the Land. Unfortunate for the people living there.

Take 10 deep breaths.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 08:50 PM
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reply to post by mmiichael
 


Exactly that's what Israel do, follow their Torah law...isn't it bad? I think it is. So why did you removed DadyBare's post in your reply though? You didn't read what he wrote earlier? hahahaha



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 08:59 PM
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Originally posted by December_Rain
reply to post by mmiichael
 


Exactly that's what Israel do, follow their Torah law...isn't it bad? I think it is. So why did you removed DadyBare's post in your reply though? You didn't read what he wrote earlier? hahahaha


There's something called excessive quoting. The Rules.

What is your source of information on Israel following the Torah law? Last I heard they have a complex legal system based on the British Common Law model that is considered both rigorous and equitable.

Can you offer advise on what to do if I start to think a contributor has gone off the deep end?

[edit on 15-12-2009 by mmiichael]



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 09:19 PM
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Originally posted by mmiichael
There's something called excessive quoting. The Rules.

What is your source of information on Israel following the Torah law? Last I heard they have a complex legal system based on British Common Law model is considered rigorous and equitable.

Can you offer advise on what to do if I start to think a contributor has gone off the deep end?


So in other words you just completely ignore what DadyBare said coz' those were his exact words. No probs. lmao

My sources are not from some extreme private religious blog/ hate websites from which most of your friends posts stating every Islamic country follow extreme Sharia law or distorted version of Islamic law but my source is from a neutral website called wikipedia


The Torah is the most holy of the sacred writings in Judaism.[4] It is the first of three sections in the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible), the founding religious document of Judaism,[5] and is divided into five books, whose names in English are Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy, in reference to their themes (Their Hebrew names, Bere#, בראשית, Shmot שמות, Vayikra ויקרא, Bamidbar במדבר, and Dvarim דברים, are derived from the wording of their initial verses).
en.wikipedia.org...-Coggins.2C_R._J._1990_pg_1_3-0]

also from a Jewish source:

• Israel is the land promised to Abraham in the Bible
• Israel is central to the Jewish religion
• Zionism is a political movement to establish a Jewish homeland

www.jewfaq.org...

So you see Judaism is founded on Torah and is the main religion of Israel.

=================================================
P.S: Even though I (atheist) am not into religion at all to few extremist people view here force me to look into aspects of it and reply them adequately to make them realise their bigotry. If I reply to them politely like I tried in very beginning (joined ATS) they don't listen at all..so you see one has to reply in same rhetoric with facts. The day people will stop hurling false propaganda accusations against Islam I will stop posting facts in regard to Jewish religion.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 09:21 PM
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Originally posted by December_Rain
reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Why stereotype..I am just repeating what you are saying by exchanging Jew with Islam. If you think that s stereotyping then you really got to see what you say.



OK I'll bite...

Where have I "Stereotyped"




posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 09:28 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


In this thread: here

When you tried to imply distorted version of Islamic law is followed by all Islamic states to my reply to DadyBare on his portrayal of distorted version of Islam. The thing is you didn't use the word distorted and neither did I.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 09:35 PM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by December_Rain
 


Yeah but....

Jewish law is defunct. Islamic law is practiced in many countries presently.



Every major city in the United States has Rabinical Courts that practice Talmudic Law.

They handle divorces and business disputes between Jewish litigants.

That's pretty odd that you aren't aware of that.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 09:38 PM
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reply to post by December_Rain
 


What a load of total garbage.... Firstly you quote garbage from the Talmud which most rabbi's dont even bother with as they are NOT inspired, but the mad ramblings of old rabbinical teachers who put more binds on the Jewish people than Hitler!! A bit like those moronic haredi..

Yeshua (Jesus) even warned us about them!

We use the Torah!

Then you assume that israel takes these "laws" and and impliments them... Mannnnn...... That that is gross, extreme ignorance!!

Israel is ruled by secular laws based on the UK model as mmicheal said.

Now can we get back on topic????



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 10:01 PM
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Originally posted by Selahobed


Say what!! I don't assume it, the sources state it. But I agree let's get back on topic because any kind of religion talk gives me nausea feeling.


JSR

posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 10:49 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by mmiichael
 

Is there anyone the Zionists DON'T BLAME FOR THE HOLOCAUST EXCEPT THEMSELVES?


wow !!
that has got to be the craziest statement i think i have ever read on ATS.

my prediction.......iran will change governments at the hands of thier own people. america my help, but it will always be an islamic government. it always has been in some form or another. and after that one begins to get to overbearing, that one will change at the hands of thier own people. this has happened countless times in the islamic/iran history.

i think this will continue across the islamic world with or without the US, UK, or even whabbi for that matter. the islamic people IMHO, only want a way to live side by side with this international globalism without surrendering thier identity of islam. for now.....internationalism is bowling over them.

IMO these types of protest will continue across the muslim world for quite some time. and at times, some will be directed at the west in a violent way.

true that the whole israel issue is a huge flash point. but, im not sure what can be done about that now, as it stands.



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 12:03 AM
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Originally posted by December_Rain

When you tried to imply distorted version of Islamic law is followed by all Islamic states to my reply to DadyBare on his portrayal of distorted version of Islam. The thing is you didn't use the word distorted and neither did I.



"Distorted"


OK I'll bite AGAIN.

When did I imply a distorted version.
Sigh....


EDIT to add: Don't make any ASSumptions.


[edit on 16-12-2009 by SLAYER69]



posted on Dec, 16 2009 @ 12:46 AM
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Originally posted by JSR
my prediction.......iran will change governments at the hands of thier own people. america my help, but it will always be an islamic government. it always has been in some form or another. and after that one begins to get to overbearing, that one will change at the hands of thier own people. this has happened countless times in the islamic/iran history.

i think this will continue across the islamic world with or without the US, UK, or even whabbi for that matter. the islamic people IMHO, only want a way to live side by side with this international globalism without surrendering thier identity of islam. for now.....internationalism is bowling over them.

IMO these types of protest will continue across the muslim world for quite some time. and at times, some will be directed at the west in a violent way.


Pretty solid prediction. Maybe heartbreaking for some, no WWIII on the immediate horizon.

The Iranian airforce came out this week in support of protesters naming the Revolutionary Guard as the bad guys.

Ballsy of them and hopefully the beginning of a rising tide of opposition. Of course the airforce is painfully aware with their outdated dysfunctional planes and equipment acquired by the Guard for kickbacks from Russia, they wouldn't stand a chance in a serious confrontation.

So now there are half a dozen warring factions in the fractured Iranian leadership maze with the military separated from the religious Mullahs, the dominating Revolutionary Guard, the nouveau riche Mullahs (Rafsanjani), and Mr A as the Rev Guard point man.

Russia happily sold their junk equipment and technology to an overbilled Iran for years. But don't want an unpredictable maybe suicidal theocratic regime with nukes on their doorstep.

A quiet regime change spearheaded by the north Tehran intellectual class, students and professionals, picking up steam from the struggling working classes would be a good smack in the face for the Mullahs. Iranian women might come out in force which would be a good sign.

Expect the usual rhetoric from the 12th Imam channeling Mr A, but a whole lot more looking inward to resolve serious domestic rifts.





[edit on 16-12-2009 by mmiichael]



posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 10:33 AM
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#Iranelection

is going nuts today on Twitter for some reason.

Can't keep up with all the tweets.



posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 10:43 AM
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Call me crazy but I truly believe that Iran wants to be attacked in some fashion . I believe that one of the many reasons the Iran government is hoping to be attacked is the current trouble it faces from it's own people .

If we can look back and use history as a teacher then we may notice that in Iran's recent past they faced trouble on the home front from it's unhappy people before . However when Iran found its self attacked by Iraq the Iranian people united and discovered a new sense of national loyalty to it's country and government .

I am of the belief that the government of Iran sees any attack in the future would surly bring about the same type of effect within its people .



posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 11:02 AM
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Double post ignore.


[edit on 24-12-2009 by SLAYER69]



posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by Max_TO
Call me crazy but I truly believe that Iran wants to be attacked in some fashion . I believe that one of the many reasons the Iran government is hoping to be attacked is the current trouble it faces from it's own people .




You're a fine conspiracist.
That's thinking outside the box. Good to see someone who is tying to digest all the forms of data available from many sources.




If we can look back and use history as a teacher then we may notice that in Iran's recent past they faced trouble on the home front from it's unhappy people before . However when Iran found its self attacked by Iraq the Iranian people united and discovered a new sense of national loyalty to it's country and government .



Interesting that we may have seen evidence of this already. I don't think it achieved the results they may have been looking for.
Top Iranian commanders assassinated

Several top commanders in Iran's elite Revolutionary Guard have been killed in a suicide bombing in the volatile south-east of the country.

Iranian state media say at least 20 people have died in the attack, in the province of Sistan-Baluchistan, and dozens more injured.

The commanders were in the region for a meeting with tribal leaders.

No group has claimed responsibility for the attack, which was condemned by Iran's Parliamentary Speaker.



posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 11:13 AM
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Originally posted by Max_TO
Call me crazy but I truly believe that Iran wants to be attacked in some fashion . I believe that one of the many reasons the Iran government is hoping to be attacked is the current trouble it faces from it's own people .

If we can look back and use history as a teacher then we may notice that in Iran's recent past they faced trouble on the home front from it's unhappy people before . However when Iran found its self attacked by Iraq the Iranian people united and discovered a new sense of national loyalty to it's country and government .

I am of the belief that the government of Iran sees any attack in the future would surly bring about the same type of effect within its people .



I don't disagree and have had similar thoughts.

But keep in mind though the 80s Holy War Iran engaged in solidifed the people it destroyed the economy and annihilated a generation of young men.
Iran still suffers form that trauma of recent history.

Bu the Mullah regime has been on a collision course. Iran has secret biological weaponry and conceivably has access to nuclear warheads from black markets like Pakistan or the Soviet Union.

The Revolutionary Guard may be itching for an all-out war they think will bring support form the Muslim World in an attack on Israel and US occupied Iraq.

As we saw when Israel went into Gaza last year, the Sunni neutral powers like Saudi Arabia were not jumping in to fight Israel. So Iran has to to really think hard.

But may be they are crazed and desperate - and a little suicidal. It's not easy predicting how far religious fanatics are ready to go and if they're willing to take down tens of millions of their own people for their cause.



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