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Tehran's Spiral

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posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 11:17 AM
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Fact Iran costs me nothing. Israel costs me plenty! Fact Iranian politics costs the U.S. Treasury nothing


Fact: Youre wrong.

The only reason Iran even has this regime NOW is because in 1953 the CIA helped them over throw the DEMOCRACY they once had.

It cost you then.

It's costing you now. Not only in spy dollars that you obviously have no idea that are being spent, but in attitude and ignorance you now display.




posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 01:20 PM
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The Iranian leadership KNOWS their days are numbered due to the impending revolution within their country. Thats why they are practically BEGGING for a military strike by the US or Israel so that they can galvanize support at home and unite the people.



posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 11:51 PM
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Thread Update...



Interesting Article.
Thought I'd post it.

Power Struggle in Iran Clouds View of Nuclear Intentions

CAIRO — Until Iran’s current political crisis, Iranian experts largely agreed that the Islamic republic wanted to develop the capacity to build nuclear weapons, without actually producing them.

Now, not everyone is so sure.

The main reason for the shift in thinking is the rise of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps as the most powerful decision-making bloc in the country. But the change is also a result of the political struggle among the elite, which has upended previous assessments about Iran’s decision-making process, silenced more pragmatic voices and made it nearly impossible for anyone to support nuclear cooperation without being accused of capitulating to the West.



posted on Dec, 27 2009 @ 12:17 PM
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Thread Update



Well it pears to be heating up again. I'll post a link to a great new ATS thread. I highly recommend getting up o speed if you haven't heard or read the latest.


Riots in Iran - CNN and Al Jazeera (english) Breaking News

Riots in Iran - CNN and Al Jazeera (english) Breaking News


edition.cnn.com

Tehran, Iran (CNN) -- Fresh clashes broke out between demonstrators and security forces in Tehran on Sunday as large crowds gathered for Ashura, a major religious observance
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Dec, 27 2009 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Is 27th a special day?

I will mark it down on my calendar. Quite a few details you gave as well.



It's the 27th.

What do you think now?



posted on Dec, 27 2009 @ 12:21 PM
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DP
Ignore




[edit on 27-12-2009 by SLAYER69]



posted on Dec, 27 2009 @ 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by jam321
 


I don't normally make predictions but I will in this case.

December 27th 2009 Israel will attack Iran!



Well we have a few more hours left. It doesn't appear that Israel is doing much, more like the Iranians themselves.



posted on Dec, 27 2009 @ 12:45 PM
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Back to the drawing board and predict YET another day that Israel or the US will attack Iran.


I tell you that for the most part the people that are against Israel/US attacking Iran are the ones stressing and predicting that they will.


No disrespect meant Proto, I know you were sincere in your prediction and at least gave details as to why you felt that way.



posted on Dec, 27 2009 @ 12:51 PM
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Good thread Slayer,
I hope It doesn't turn out like Protoplasmic is saying,although its now 18:48 in the UK...

However I think he may only be off by hours/days.
There are two other items that may be relevant:

en.timeturk.com...

story.albuquerqueexpress.com...

The proverbial you know what is hovering,nanometers away from the fan it seems.



posted on Dec, 27 2009 @ 12:54 PM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Is 27th a special day?

I will mark it down on my calendar. Quite a few details you gave as well.



It's the 27th.

What do you think now?


Judging by initial news reports I am partially right and partially wrong, how right or how wrong events will yet have to bear out.

Clearly something huge is happening in Iran today!

Clearly its getting a lot of help from the West!

Clearly the day is not over.

Yet one thing remains the 27th is in fact proving to be a significant date!

I know it's simply amazing how I do it!



posted on Dec, 27 2009 @ 12:57 PM
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[opinion]

When the Iranian military turns against the present government, and I believe they will eventually, a new page will be turned in that country.

The greater the atrocities against the marchers, the sooner the Revolutionary Guard will become disenchanted. Today, reports of a number of protesters (4) killed when troops opened fire on a crown in Tehran. The government denies this. Why?

Because martyrdom is a very strong force indeed.

The protests will get bolder, the Guard less inclined toward force and, if it goes like I think it will, the tide will turn against the mullahs and the government.

What replacres it will be very interesting, but I have no idea what it might look like.

[/opinion]



posted on Dec, 27 2009 @ 12:57 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Star for making me laugh.

I give it to you that it turned out to be a significant day.

Hopefully, the Iranian people can handle their own business so we won't have to worry about such predictions.




posted on Dec, 27 2009 @ 01:03 PM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by jam321
 


I don't normally make predictions but I will in this case.

December 27th 2009 Israel will attack Iran!



Well we have a few more hours left. It doesn't appear that Israel is doing much, more like the Iranians themselves.


In all fairness Slayer the last coup de tat in Iran was carried out by the United States, using homegrown Iranians that were funded and politicized by the CIA.

These internal political movements are typically funded and propelled by outside sources.

Who the sources are this time is hard to say, one thing is for certain that if today's events add up to a sucessful coup de tat the actual intelligence agencies involved will eventually step forward to take credit when there is success just like Operation Ajax.

We also don't know to what extent yet some foreign military (possibly Israel) might be waiting for protests and unrest to bring Iran's defenses to their most stretched or breaking down point and then will hit those nuclear facilities by overt or covert means.

Something is in fact happening today in Iran that has the makings of something pretty big and it's not over and in fact it might be years until we know all the details behind it.

Either way I felt the 27th of December was going to be a very significant date in the great game who's players eyes have fallen on Iran.

More importantly though lets hope that as few people die in all this madness as humanly possible and what ever happens the Iranians are better off for it and not the worst for the wear.



[edit on 27/12/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Dec, 27 2009 @ 01:09 PM
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Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Star for making me laugh.

I give it to you that it turned out to be a significant day.

Hopefully, the Iranian people can handle their own business so we won't have to worry about such predictions.



Thanks my friend I am quite psychic you know or was that psychopathic? Words they can be so confusing.

Watch as I do more amazing clairvoyance, you are having money problems are you not? There is a woman involved isn’t there?

I know, I know it’s truly a gift!

I know you are troubled! Are you here on ATS searching for answers? I thought so.

That will be 375 Karma Coins please!



posted on Dec, 27 2009 @ 01:12 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I felt the 27th of December was going to be a very significant date


Today is very important, for sure:


Sunday marks Ashura, the observance of the death of Imam Hussein, grandson of Prophet Muhammad.

Hussein, who was killed in battle in Karbala in 680 A.D., is regarded as a martyr. The battle that led to his death is one of the events that helped create the schism between Sunnis and Shiites, the two main Muslim religious movements.

Iran is predominantly Shiite.

During Sunday's protests, some demonstrators compared Khamenei to Yazid, the caliph who killed Hussein.

Religious mourning during Ashura is characterized by people chanting, beating their breasts in penance, cutting themselves with daggers or swords and whipping themselves in synchronized moves.

www.cnn.com...


...and, even more important, there is this event:


Sunday also is a week to the day since the death of Grand Ayatollah Hussein Ali Montazeri, a key figure in the 1979 Iranian revolution. Montazeri, who went on to become one of the government's most vocal critics, died December 20.


So, yes, it is a very important date. No doubt, we'll be hearing much more as the information trickles out.



posted on Dec, 27 2009 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
In all fairness Slayer the last coup de tat in Iran was carried out by the United States, using homegrown Iranians that were funded and politicized by the CIA.




In all reality I was referring to their last homegrown Governmental overthrow in 1979 that replaced the above mentioned puppet Government.


[edit on 27-12-2009 by SLAYER69]



posted on Dec, 27 2009 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by masqua
 

Thanks for those great additions masqua. I wasn't aware that the 27th was a Holiday in Iran or the nature of it when I made my prediction.

The Powers that Be in my humble opinion love Holidays by the way. Some tend to me more auspicious and portentous than others.

Most importantly I did no take into account either that Mercury would go in Retrograde on the 26th either! Talk about a bummer. When Mercury is in Retrograde things tend to reverse course, communication becomes much more difficult and technology does not work as well!

That of course would make a high-tech airstrike potentially more problematic and risky than a low-tech coup de tat.

Either way I was hoping them as I am hoping now that nothing deadly to anyone comes of my prophecy but sadly according to reports that might already have happened.

I did feel though quite some time ago that the 27th would be a momentous day in the annals of Iran.

I am also available for weddings, bar mitzvahs, bachelor parties, bridal and baby showers, birthdays and anniversary parties! (Just kidding)



posted on Dec, 27 2009 @ 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
In all fairness Slayer the last coup de tat in Iran was carried out by the United States, using homegrown Iranians that were funded and politicized by the CIA.




In all reality I was referring to their last homegrown Governmental overthrow in 1979 that replaced the above mentioned puppet Government.


[edit on 27-12-2009 by SLAYER69]


France seemed to have played a key role in that Student Uprising, after all they had been keeping the Ayatollah Khomeini safely in exile all those years.

There is some indication though circumstantial George Bush Sr. might have been orchestrating a lot of those events as far as just when and where to return the Ayatollah to Iran and to finally give up on the Shah.

It would seem that once again through Paris that George Bush Sr., negotiated the continued detainment of the American Hostages at the Embassy there to undermine the Carter Presidency and help to propel Regan into Office and more importantly help to restore the tattered image of the Republican Party in the wake of the Watergate Scandal and the downfall of the Nixon Administration and the embarrassment with Vice President Agnew previous to that who was forced to resign from office in the wake of Federal Indictments involving alleged kickbacks and racketeering on Road Projects while previously the Governor of Maryland.

I am not sure how old you are but there was a lot going on politically both abroad and domestically at that point in time.

Iran too happened to be an incredibly important asset. If you research the CIA Freedom of Information Act files on their Online Library at CIA.org you will see that starting with Israeli independence that the CIA considered Israel to be the number one threat to the peace and prosperity of the United States.

World War II had proven that militaries could be ground to a halt with out vital oil and gasoline to keep them moving and that highlighted and illustrated the strategic importance of the Middle East as a vital supply of that especially when it came to European Operations.

The CIA feared a political backlash from openly supporting the Israeli State in the form of oil embargos and boycotts. This happened to in fact come to pass on two significant occasions and if you aren’t old enough to remember those embargos let me tell you getting gasoline only every other day, and only being allowed 5 gallons of it when the average car got 11 miles to the gallon, and having to wait in two hour lines for it was really, and truly no fun!

Operation Ajax is what ultimately turned the tide in relations between Zionist Israel and the United States. The CIA stopped working against Israel at that point and started aiding and abetting it because the Shah’s Iran was considered our ace in the hole in case of Arab Boycotts. The Shah and the Iranians are Persian Asians and not Arabs and in reality the two don’t get along. The Persians look down on the Arabs. The Iranians are predominantly Shiite, while the Arabs are predominantly Sunni and that schism to a certain extent makes them blood enemies.

In the Middle East Culture of the enemy of my enemy is my friend, Iran was very friendly especially behind the scenes when it came to Zionist Israel. At that time the Jewish minority in Iran numbered in the hundreds of thousands.

Yet the Shah’s excesses especially through the CIA independently controlled SAVAK the dreaded Secret Police of Iran were backbreaking on the Iranian people on a whole, 95% of which lived below poverty while the oligarchs enjoyed a decadent jet-set lifestyle of total affluence and wealth off of the nation’s oil wealth.

The SAVAK’S human rights violations were some of the worst ever documented in modern times and by the late 1970’s there was no way no how to keep the Shah in power.

It is likely we did install the Ayatollah as a remedy for a cooling off period to placate the Iranian people and to set the stage to eventually foster conditions that would lead to an exploitable popular style uprising to once again change regimes and to likely bring back the Shah’s son as an interim style government while the growing pains of another democracy movement will be stamped out while relaxing many of the religious restrictions and laws while still paying a greater respect to the religious infrastructure.

The Arms for Hostages debacle featuring Oliver North trading spare parts for American Military Hardware to the Iranians who still owned quite a bit of it at that time for money to fund the Nicaraguan Contras demonstrated that in fact we did and do have lines to the Iranian Theocracy and can work with it when we choose and against it when we choose.

Ultimately the disastrous fall of the Iranian Embassy and the Shah’s regime led directly too the war on terror as much of our Middle East Intelligence Operations were stored in the Iranian Embassy including our list of covert operatives throughout the Middle East. Combined with Carter’s dismantlement of the CIA Black Operations Department and the forced retirement of the Agents who did Wet Work like murders and kidnappings abroad of American enemies of state and the enemies of states we were interested in propping up eventually led to the whole Middle East being blown wide open.

The underlying reality is that there is only one thing that caused us to put all our eggs in that tenuous Iranian Basket and that was our decision after Operation Ajax to stop working against Israel and to start supporting it.

In that process we did in fact trade the goodwill of most of the world’s 1.8 billion Muslims for the goodwill of about 30 million highly entrenched and influential Jews in Diaspora who had wormed their way into key infrastructure positions.

Politically it prevented us from having to ferret out and persecute and prosecute those Jews in our own Government and in the international Banking Cartels and Media that were putting extraordinary pressure on the American Government for direct support and aid through various and often unscrupulous ways.

Sadly the end result is now the West has to potentially deal with ferreting out the portion of the 1.8 billion Muslims that live within it and are part of the vital infrastructure having missed that opportunity to ferret out the much smaller number of Jews.

Strategically it was a failed move to trade the good will of the Arab world and 1.8 billion Muslims for the good will of the Israelis and the world’s 30 million Jews.

Logic dictates the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.

Today we are still trying to redraw the Middle Eastern Maps to favor Israel and simply angering more and more Muslims in that process.

Supporting such failed strategies that are obviously beyond bankrupting our treasury and embroiling the U.S. and the world in perennial and deepening wars is just stupid Slayer.

You know what they say though, stupid is as stupid does!



posted on Dec, 27 2009 @ 04:25 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


The only reason that became a debacle was becuase the left hand found out what the right hand was doing. It doesn't mean that there wasn't support for the "Arms for Hostage" Deal. You know like Ollie stated several times that he didn't think it was a bad idea.



posted on Dec, 27 2009 @ 05:03 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


It wasn't a bad idea. I have met Ollie he's quite the charachter, I like him and so do some friends of mine.

The point is that we screwed the pooch in Iran and that more than anything led to the taking of hostages in Lebanon.

The KGB only had one Russian ever kidnapped on them during the entire Lebanese Civil War. The next morning the faction's leader who had carried out the abduction awoke to find his mother, wife and children hacked to little bits and placed in see through plastic garbage bags on his front door step.

The Russian was released and they never touched another the whole war, it wasn't worth it. The payback.

Our crippled CIA could not function in such a way it had lost all it's black assets through blown covers when the Iranian Embassy Fell and the rest were gutted by Carter who was dealing with the dual foreign policy debacle of the CIA installed Shah running the most repressive regime on earth and the Marcos in the Phillipines having rigged the most recent elections there using CIA computers and software.

That directly led to us loosing Subic Naval Base and all our other bases in the Phillipines. The CIA thanks to it's desperate ploys in Iran and it's botching the job in the Phillipines became a dirty word. Congress passed laws to limit the damage it could do as a foreign policy instrument that in large part led to the open reign of Muslim fundamentalism in both Asia and the Middle East in part as a backlash against our very public misadventures in other nation's affairs.

All of which really was born from that support of Israel and as those wars heated up and we increased our involvement it has taken gasoline from being a cheap plentiful commodity that could be had for .17 cents a gallon in 1970 to often as high as 3.50 cents a gallon today making the oil companies insanely profitible and wealthy beyond belief as our whole society and infrastructure is fueled by petrol, and seemingly petrol and war.

One thing we found out in World War II Slayer was that it took a close and constant plentiful supply of oil and gas to keep a war machine going.

The sad reality has become and is the fact that the best place on earth therefore to constantly run a petrol driven war machine is in the Middle East.

It's just an ugly, ugly mess that breeds death and violence and greed for a world enslaved to oil and money and war.

Not my idea of an ideal planet.

This might be why you don't see Planet Earth Postcards at the Convenience Stores!

Just saying.



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