77 = No Hijack, Flight Deck Door Closed for Entire Flight

it never happened.

case closed on flight 77 being hijacked and crashed into the pentagon.

Pilots for 911 Truth

However, according to Flight Data provided by the NTSB, the Flight Deck Door was never opened in flight. How were the hijackers able to gain access to the cockpit, remove the pilots, and navigate the aircraft to the Pentagon if the Flight Deck Door remained closed?

more at above link.

be alert for plenty ad hom attacks in response to this information.

also from Pilots :

For easier reference, i have uploaded a csv file of the FLIGHT DECK DOOR and GMT (Time) parameters side by side.

www.megaupload.com...

[edit on 27-11-2009 by wholetruth]

I would really like to look at the newly decoded data P4911 is referring to:

PilotsFor911Truth.org) - Newly decoded data provided by an independent researcher and computer programmer from Australia exposes alarming evidence that the reported hijacking aboard American Airlines Flight 77 was impossible to have existed. A data parameter labeled "FLT DECK DOOR", cross checks with previously decoded data obtained by Pilots For 9/11 Truth from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) through the Freedom Of Information Act.

and then further on it states:

pilotsfor911truth.org... for full member list.

pilotsfor911truth.org... to join.

[1] Hijacker Timeline - pilotsfor911truth.org...

[2] Common Strategy Prior to 9/11/2001 - pilotsfor911truth.org...

[3] Right click and save target as here to download csv file with "FLT DECK DOOR" parameter.

When I went through item [3] above, it opened a document from www.warrenstutt.com that had nothing in it. Perhaps I did something wrong. Your assistance, OP, if you please?

I'm assuming the flight data recorder shows when the door was closed and even if it was closed? Don't they not close the doors sometimes? I guess that would matter. I don't know how to read that thing...would it be clear to me if I downloaded it?

I guess if it was close it would matter when it was closed. Maybe any hijacker there may have been go closed in with them is where I'm heading. I'm sure you all thought of these things and my questions sound stupid...but again I'm not seeing the data.

[edit on 27-11-2009 by ~Lucidity]

reply to post by wholetruth


Just saw this on the Loose Change Forum. Don't know the answer but I have a strong feeling it will be shot to pieces within 24 hrs.

First obvious question is :- Does the FDR record opening and shutting of flight deck door ?

I guess this would prove no hijacking took place if-

1)This information is legit.

and/or

2)That the hijacking was "not" done electronically...meaning...it was not done through an act of "Hihacking" (my word...made it up...you can use it).

Just a though or two.

Originally posted by Alfie1
reply to post by wholetruth

 

Just saw this on the Loose Change Forum. Don't know the answer but I have a strong feeling it will be shot to pieces within 24 hrs.

First obvious question is :- Does the FDR record opening and shutting of flight deck door ?

And a good question it is.. The recorded flight data (csv available through above links) shows the state of the door for every 4 seconds, and shows it's all closed. However, does this mean it's theoretically possible to open the doors for 3.9 seconds and have it never show up on the data? Or is the same 'door state' sensor that's connected to an overhead light in 757s (see pilotsfor911truth.org...) also connected to this data log in a way that an additional (non-periodic) entry is made?

Of course it's quite unlikely to open the door so quickly and close it within the time-frame of 4 seconds; still, these kind of possibilities are just enough to make it impossible to call this 'undeniable proof' . Hope we can get an answer from one of the pilots/airplane engineers.


[edit on 27-11-2009 by scraze]

Originally posted by Alfie1
reply to post by wholetruth

 

Just saw this on the Loose Change Forum. Don't know the answer but I have a strong feeling it will be shot to pieces within 24 hrs.

i have a strong feeling the token janitor from nasa will say a bunch of things the majority of your side doesn't even comprehend which your side will in turn use to attempt to get this information bogged down in debate.......

reply to post by scraze


Per the NTSB a FDR can record 18-1000 different parameters but I have seen no reference anywhere else that the cockpit door is one of them but it doesn't show that it isn't.

Flight Data Recorder
Time recorded 25 hour continuous
Number of parameters 18 - 1000+
Impact tolerance 3400Gs / 6.5 ms
Fire resistance 1100 degC / 30 min
Water pressure resistance submerged 20,000 ft
Underwater locator beacon 37.5 KHz; battery has shelf life of 6 years or more, with 30-day operation capability upon activation

www.ntsb.gov...

Originally posted by scraze
Of course it's quite unlikely to open the door so quickly and close it within the time-frame of 4 seconds; still, these kind of possibilities are just enough to make it impossible to call this 'undeniable proof' . Hope we can get an answer from one of the pilots/airplane engineers.


[edit on 27-11-2009 by scraze]

They have an overhead button to push to open the flight deck door. The button lights up when the door is open. There is a sensor on the door.

Checked with a buddy who is a commercial airlines pilot. Yes, there is a door sensor. He explained that you have to push a button above the door to open it. He stated that he was under the impression that the flight-deck door was one of the many flight conditions being recorded by the FDR.

If this data is real and accurate - this could blow the whole thing open! Nice find!

Originally posted by wholetruth

Originally posted by scraze
Of course it's quite unlikely to open the door so quickly and close it within the time-frame of 4 seconds; still, these kind of possibilities are just enough to make it impossible to call this 'undeniable proof' . Hope we can get an answer from one of the pilots/airplane engineers.


[edit on 27-11-2009 by scraze]

They have an overhead button to push to open the flight deck door. The button lights up when the door is open. There is a sensor on the door.

That's what I linked to as well; however, it doesn't answer our question. After all, the sensor is the device that can tell us what the state of the door is, but it is not the device that logs the state of the door. So we actually need to know how the electronics are integrated; is there a central logging device that has access to all sensors? Does it poll (periodically inquire) the state of the sensors, and logs its results? Or is there a callback mechanism in such a way that a sensor can make an entry in a log itself?

These are the kind of details we need to get into. The existence of a sensor itself is but a hint in the direction of the answer.

It will be interesting to see how they spin this into a non issue considering all the other evidence that they have chosen to ignore.

Could make for an entertaining tale

hehehe

Love it, this is will help us greatly in waking people up.! S+F

Originally posted by scraze

Originally posted by wholetruth

Originally posted by scraze

That's what I linked to as well; however, it doesn't answer our question. After all, the sensor is the device that can tell us what the state of the door is, but it is not the device that logs the state of the door. So we actually need to know how the electronics are integrated; is there a central logging device that has access to all sensors? Does it poll (periodically inquire) the state of the sensors, and logs its results? Or is there a callback mechanism in such a way that a sensor can make an entry in a log itself?

These are the kind of details we need to get into. The existence of a sensor itself is but a hint in the direction of the answer.

The DFDR (digital flight data recorder sequentially polls and records the data from each sensor monitoring a parameter. The door sensor which reports the status of the door is t the bottom of the door, and is not tied to the button which opens it or the cickpit door indicator ligjht. The sensor doesn't trigger a report like some, like the engine fire sensor, do The DFDR records status as open or closed when polled. A simple 0 or 1, depending on status. If the DFDR data is correct, the cockpit door was either closed or open for less than 4 seconds, for the total duration of the flight.
For those interested in this topic, what I consider to be even more damaging to the government story is the recent ifo released by Pilots for 911 Truth that the speeds for the 2 WTC aircraft, as alleged by the government per the DFDR data for those aircraft are higher than the structure could tolerate, as shown by the case of Egyp Air 990, which exceeded its structural speed and broke apart in flight when it exceeded 425 knots equivalent airspeed (equivalent to .99 mach) at 22,000 feet. The government has reported the speeds of the WTC aircraft at 510 knots for United 175 and 430 knots for American
Boing has set the maximum operating speed at 360 knots. At 425, they fall apart, if Egyptair is a good example.

It looks like the government better get out its "Hold on boys, the stories are coming apart checklist." Even Sully can't save this crashing turkey.

Let's not get our hopes up too quickly here... How many times have we all thought something was going to be disclosed about 9/11 and it didn't happen, or it did and it was twisted so much by the government it just confused people even more.

I am all for the 9/11 truth movement, and I hope that this opens some peoples eyelids long enough for them to do some more research into what really happened on 9/11.

I still want to maybe start a website, dedicated to the 9/11 truth movement, with real facts/info on all the BS that the MSM has spewed out to everyone, and using peoples donations I would setup billboards across the US with catchy slogans and the website posted across the bottom. Start out in big cities, and go from there... I think it'd work. There's plenty of people across the nation who either fully believe 9/11 was an inside job, or are very skeptical/on the fence about everything. Maybe I can make it happen - guess I'll have to see.

I have always suspected all the flights were eventually (even if the Government had patsy hijackers) taken over electronically to hit their targets. I always thought it was suspicious that rookie pilots would be able to LOCATE the twin towers and hit them dead on.....or the Pentagon.

Hopefully this data is legit.

reply to post by wholetruth


S&F for you OP.

This is great news for the truth movement. Its very reassuring how hard working and thorough many of the people are. We just need to keep fighting, and not give up, the truth will come out eventually. This is our best chance for exposing to the masses Just how the global elite work.

I just received a warning from my anti-virus software (AVG) when I opened this thread page.

I have no other programs running, and no other web or browser pages open.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f477cdf88659.jpg[/atsimg]

The warning says:
"DANGER: AVG Search-Shield has detected active threats on this page and has blocked access for your protection.

The page you are trying to access has been identified as a known exploit, phishing, or social engineering web site
and therefore has been blocked for your safety. Without protection, such as that in the AVG Security Toolbar and AVG,
your computer is at risk of being compromised, corrupted or having your identity stolen. Please follow one of the
suggestions below to continue.

URL: sprigs-irons.net/
Name: Javascript Obfuscation (type 714)"

I'll let ATS management know too, just in case.

stay safe!
G

I am highly suspicious of this website (pilotsfor911truth.com). The so called "breakthrough" information discussed is listed on the main page, just under a "black friday special" on their DVD. "now under $10 per DVD in our 7 Pack DVD Special!". I'm not denying truth, I'm just suspect of truth that has a $70 price tag on it.

Im confused......Are we now thinking it was a plane that hit the Pentagon and not a missile or a helicopter. How does this explain where flight 77 went or is ???