Fuming Mad Christian

reply to post by prevenge

At the ABSOLUTE, Everything already is meaningless unless we personally decide apply meaning to it.
Every instance, every event...
Is completely empty and without meaning unless we decide to apply meaning to it ...

Meaning BASED on our temporary, perception of the world and reality based on the data we've accumulated.

It is all perception.

To realize the vital acuality that we are all one consciousness, and that the heart of God.....

WOW, that actually registered in my mind. You totally get it.
Spiritual awareness is the First step..

Come on it , The water is just perfect.

Originally posted by oliveoil
The unexamined life is not worth living.

You don't have to be a person of faith or believer in god to examine your life or to have a greater understanding of your inner self or what makes you tick.

You call non-believers ignorant and don't seem to see the ignorance and arrogance of your own statement.

Your need to have a reason for your existence is your own, we each make our own choices, you seem to have a need to have people choose the same path as yourself as you believe this to be the correct one, IMO a narrow view point.

I do not require spiritual guidance or a base of commandments to show me what is ethically or morally correct, I know of few if any faith based individuals who do not exercise hypocrisy.

[edit on 28-11-2009 by Koka]

I am a recent convert to the Catholic church - for years I considered myself Christian but couldn't stand churches or the hypocrisy I kept observing - --until I started applying some of those observances to myself....and started to quit judging others by anecdotal experiences or just because its group think [like - most Christians are intolerant or judgmental - that's group think] and we are habituated to tell ourselves and others those cliches - if we are honest we will admit that our experience with intolerant Christians is non-existent or extremely limited, unless we grew up in or married into a fundamentalist sect that separates it self in an extreme way[I think one of the posters had this experience]...I certainly did not grow up this way and most of my friends did not grow up this way...but we learned all the cliches and repeated them especially as social mores began to loosen and change in this country - Christians became an easy target for ridicule....group think..

Then I began a years long search for a church home and that is how I came to the Catholic church - I studied the doctrines and the history and traditions along with how it all squares with the bible - what I found was truth not dependent on the "perfection" or "perfect" behavior of its members - but truth that attempts to help people work out their sanctification and live moral and holy lives and to spread the message of the gospel to others.....Christian are humans just like everyone else - they screw up royally sometimes - are wrong headed, and stubborn sometimes - it is a struggle to live a Christ like life...read the new testament - it is a radical document ... but its worth everything to me to try, to give it my all because to do so is true freedom....so the rant about Christian's behavior is absolutely nothing new because the truths to which we are called are lofty and require effort, discipline, patience, love - in short it requires God's grace
and assistance to live an effective Christian life and a lot of our own sweat...

So don't worry OP about those that hate you or despise you or rebuke you, or criticize you - As Christ said if you are following Him truly this is to be expected...do not fear or worry, do not worry about what the guy in the pew next to you is doing right or wrong or the guy down the street - focus on your relationship to God and as Mary said to the servants at the wedding in
Cana - Do whatever He tells you - love your enemies and do good to them that hate you...there are no caveats on those instructions - no do good "if" - simply do it - period....and - no whining allowed - pray without ceasing - takes care of all the complaining....lol...thats been my experience anyway...
all the best to you in your walk with the Lord

After reading halfway through all the responses to this thread both good and
bad the same thing keeps coming up over and over again. I thought it best to stop right here.

"America is not a Christian country, and was not founded on Christian Values."

This is not true. Even my 6 year old knows who founded this nation.

They were the Puritans, and they were Christian, and they had Christian values.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by oliveoil
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

Nope.. sorry.. Not a Fact.

Ok here it is again. Who do you think landed on Plymouth Rock? The rolling Stones?

I already answered that. The pilgrims did come over but they were not the only groups of people that came. They were just one group. You are believing the false historical account that it was the pilgrims, Christians who founded this government. This is not true. If you study the lives of the founding fathers, although many had a belief in god, they did not all profess to be Christians. It seems like you didn't read or understand my explanation about natural law, and why people think this means we are a christian country.

Believe me, as a Christian, there is nothing I would like to believe more.. but the historical facts are not there to support this. The Pilgrims landed on Plymouth Rock in 1620. It was 156 years later that America was formed in 1776. Many other peoples had come to America since 1620 who were not pilgrims (Christians).

EDIT : I read your Wikipedia entry. It does not state that the Pilgrims were among the founders of this country nor that the pilgrims beliefs is where the founding father got their beliefs about God, nor that the founding fathers put God in the constitution because of the Pilgrims.

The constitution itself does tell of they got these ideas about God from Natural Law.

Let me tell you something about me. I have been researching this a long time an I was shocked when I first found out that many of the things the government wants us to believe about his country are false. It very hard to take at first. I would not lie to you about an issue this important. (or any issue for that matter). Please do your own hard research an don't be so quick to believe everything you read.. even my writings.. this is the only way you will uncover the truth. I know this is hard to believe in the face of what they teach in school.

A good book you may want to read is "Lies My teacher Told Me" by James W. Loewen. It will help you understand why a lot of the "facts" they teach in school are historically wrong and why.





















[edit on 28-11-2009 by JohnPhoenix]

reply to post by Koka

You don't have to be a person of faith or believer in god to examine your life or to have a great understanding of your inner self or what makes you tick.

You call non-believers ignorant and don't seem to see the ignorance and arrogance of your own statement.

Your need to have a reason for your existence is your own, we each make our own choices, you seem to have a need to have people choose the same path as yourself as you believe this to be the correct one, IMO a narrow view point.

I do not require spiritual guidance or a base of commandments to show me what is ethically or morally correct, I know of few if any faith based individuals who do not exercise hypocrisy.

God is the explanation of everything. If you leave out God you leave everything unexplainable.

Ex: science studies the constitution of matter. But science cant study these two more vital questions. By WHOME matter were made, and for WHAT were they maid.

Question,How can science use anything intelligently until it knows what it is made for?

Like Socrates said, the unexaimend life is not worth living.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


If you want to get technical,The earliest known use of the name America for this particular landmass dates from April 25, 1507....

en.wikipedia.org...

The most prevalent faiths in the Americas are as follows:

* Christianity (North America: 85 percent....

en.wikipedia.org...

I guess you are wrong.


Also don't forget Christopher Columbus in 1492. Wasn't he a Jew?

[edit on 28-11-2009 by oliveoil]

Originally posted by oliveoil
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

If you want to get technical,The earliest known use of the name America for this particular landmass dates from April 25, 1507....

en.wikipedia.org...

The most prevalent faiths in the Americas are as follows:

* Christianity (North America: 85 percent....

en.wikipedia.org...

I guess you are wrong.

[edit on 28-11-2009 by oliveoil]

This is true.. but it does not say that Christianity is where the founding fathers got their ideas about god for our country. You still have not brought any evidence to support this. I was trying to help, but if you just want to argue and not look at facts then I cannot help you learn anything.


At lease do this for your daughters sake. Read, Lies my teacher told Me. You local library will have it. Research this information for yourself. then see what they are teaching your daughter and if you believe they are correct or not.

Since you brought up Christopher Columbus. Did you know it is a matter of historical fact that he and his men almost slaughtered all the Haitian people in search for Gold. Christopher Columbus has lots of innocent blood on his hands. Research it. It's a fact. but they leave this out of most school teachings and make him look like a Hero. Do you want your daughter to know the truth or not?






[edit on 28-11-2009 by JohnPhoenix]

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


I totally agree with you on that. I don't witness to people unless it looks like they want/need help. I won't force my beliefs on anyone like so many people like to claim about us Christians. We don't ALL do that. Jesus wants us to share the news with others but He also wants them to be able to form an informed choice about it. What use would He have for mindless slaves? NONE at all.

Originally posted by oliveoil
God is the explanation of everything. If you leave out God you leave everything unexplainable.

And it suits you to have blind faith, as I said, you have a need to believe as you think life does not have a value without faith, as I pointed out, a narrow view.

Ex: science studies the constitution of matter. But science cant study these two more vital questions. By WHOME matter were made, and for WHAT were they maid.

I look forward to you answering who made your god then? Blind faith is neither an answer or a reason.

Question,How can science use anything intelligently until it knows what it is made for?

I prefer the prolonged route of looking for answers based on fact rather than the fiction of others. Religion is a cop out and was born of a need for guidance and control.

Like Socrates said, the unexaimend life is not worth living.

And like I said, this does not require a god.

reply to post by realshanti

sometimes - it is a struggle to live a Christ like life

Why ?

reply to post by JohnPhoenix

This is true.. but it does not say that Christianity is where the founding fathers got their ideas about god for our country. You still have not brought any evidence to support this. I was trying to help, but if you just want to argue and not look at facts then I cannot help you learn anything.

These are the facts.

Religious Affiliation of the Signers of the
Declaration of Independence

Charles Carroll Maryland Catholic
Samuel Huntington Connecticut Congregationalist
Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregationalist
William Williams Connecticut Congregationalist
Oliver Wolcott Connecticut Congregationalist
Lyman Hall Georgia Congregationalist
Samuel Adams Massachusetts Congregationalist
John Hancock Massachusetts Congregationalist
Josiah Bartlett New Hampshire Congregationalist
William Whipple New Hampshire Congregationalist
William Ellery Rhode Island Congregationalist
John Adams Massachusetts Congregationalist; Unitarian
Robert Treat Paine Massachusetts Congregationalist; Unitarian
George Walton Georgia Episcopalian
John Penn North Carolina Episcopalian
George Ross Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Thomas Heyward Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian
Thomas Lynch Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian
Arthur Middleton South Carolina Episcopalian
Edward Rutledge South Carolina Episcopalian
Francis Lightfoot Lee Virginia Episcopalian
Richard Henry Lee Virginia Episcopalian
George Read Delaware Episcopalian
Caesar Rodney Delaware Episcopalian
Samuel Chase Maryland Episcopalian
William Paca Maryland Episcopalian
Thomas Stone Maryland Episcopalian
Elbridge Gerry Massachusetts Episcopalian
Francis Hopkinson New Jersey Episcopalian
Francis Lewis New York Episcopalian
Lewis Morris New York Episcopalian
William Hooper North Carolina Episcopalian
Robert Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian
John Morton Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Stephen Hopkins Rhode Island Episcopalian
Carter Braxton Virginia Episcopalian
Benjamin Harrison Virginia Episcopalian
Thomas Nelson Jr. Virginia Episcopalian
George Wythe Virginia Episcopalian
Thomas Jefferson Virginia Episcopalian (Deist)
Benjamin Franklin Pennsylvania Episcopalian (Deist)
Button Gwinnett Georgia Episcopalian; Congregationalist
James Wilson Pennsylvania Episcopalian; Presbyterian
Joseph Hewes North Carolina Quaker, Episcopalian
George Clymer Pennsylvania Quaker, Episcopalian
Thomas McKean Delaware Presbyterian
Matthew Thornton New Hampshire Presbyterian
Abraham Clark New Jersey Presbyterian
John Hart New Jersey Presbyterian
Richard Stockton New Jersey Presbyterian
John Witherspoon New Jersey Presbyterian
William Floyd New York Presbyterian
Philip Livingston New York Presbyterian
James Smith Pennsylvania Presbyterian
George Taylor Pennsylvania Presbyterian
Benjamin Rush Pennsylvania Presbyterian

Do you think that their religious affiliation had any thing to do with WHY they wrote this document?
Why do you think they wrote it in the first place?


[edit on 28-11-2009 by oliveoil]

reply to post by Lexxica

Jesus wants us to share the news with others but He also wants them to be able to form an informed choice about it.

In order to make an informed choice one wold normally require information, however , your belief system itself insists that information is not required merely a belief.

Her's an example of making an informed choice -

"Jesus (the one that's in the gospels but not the one that's in his tomb) was a real person that did this that and the other"

Where's the evidence for this ?

In the bibles

They do not prove anything and cannot be corroborated, therefore it is smart not to believe that until proof is presented.

There you go an informed choice made in seconds.

What use would He have for mindless slaves? NONE at all.

Well the Tithe collectors and politicians seem to be making very good use of them.

reply to post by Koka


Religion came about because the Living God has been communicating
with people since humans were created .
He also performs miracles regularly that you cannot see.In fact , if you
met Him , you would deny Him outright , despite the fact that billions
of intelligent people can see and hear His truth .
The control freaks are the atheist/agnostics .
Remember this life is not a rehearsal , and when you die , your soul will have an interview with God . The fully lost do not enter Heaven ! good luck

reply to post by Koka

I look forward to you answering who made your god then? Blind faith is neither an answer or a reason.

God is omnipotent.

Now then, perhaps you can answer my questions. Ive answered yours.
You may be a very intelligent person, but spiritually you are lacking.

[edit on 28-11-2009 by oliveoil]

Originally posted by oliveoil
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

This is true.. but it does not say that Christianity is where the founding fathers got their ideas about god for our country. You still have not brought any evidence to support this. I was trying to help, but if you just want to argue and not look at facts then I cannot help you learn anything.

Do you think that their religious affiliation had any thing to do with WHY they wrote this document?
Why do you think they wrote it in the first place?

[edit on 28-11-2009 by oliveoil]

Yes, I am sure it influenced their decision to use natural law. It does not say this nation is based in Christianity as you claim. You don't seem to understand the difference I am making.

Let me put it this way. In your own list there are many denominations of "Chritian's " represented. If they said outright they were going to base this countries government on Christianity, there would have been conflict among them. Whose version of Christianity of we use? The Catholics? The Protestants? The Episcopalians?

they could not have that.. so as stated in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution they chose Natural Law. This is simply God given morals an values for Americans to follow. It was the best, most fair way to solve the problem that would please everyone.

Yet it did not single out a certain religion. Natural Law will cover any religion that has God as Creator, Chritian or not. This is the most fair choice for all American people.

BTW, here.. if you will look at it.. you can get a PDF copy of "Lies My teacher told Me" here: rs55.rapidshare.com...

Also, you have to remember people that Natural Law was a well known and understood form of Law at the time. It has only been in the last 100 years or so it had not been taught or widely known.





[edit on 28-11-2009 by JohnPhoenix]

Originally posted by radarloveguy
reply to post by Koka

 

Religion came about because the Living God has been communicating
with people since humans were created .
He also performs miracles regularly that you cannot see.In fact , if you
met Him , you would deny Him outright , despite the fact that billions
of intelligent people can see and hear His truth .
The control freaks are the atheist/agnostics .
Remember this life is not a rehearsal , and when you die , your soul will have an interview with God . The fully lost do not enter Heaven ! good luck

Do you have any links that provide factual provable accounts of any of the above you have stated?

Let me answer that for you, no, because it relies solely on faith, and you cannot prove anything if your answer is based on faith.

Originally posted by oliveoil
This is not true. Even my 6 year old knows who founded this nation.

They were the Puritans, and they were Christian, and they had Christian values.

en.wikipedia.org...

What is told to the people and what is truth are two different things. the people left europe to get away from the church so they could be pagans in peace.

Yep that sounds like a country full of christians, getting away from the church so they can be pagans in peace, lol.

Your country is just pagan, same as england, admit it.

"Well the Tithe collectors and politicians seem to be making very good use of them."

Giving to church programs that help the poor and needy does not make you a slave... Giving to the benni hinns of the world is another story!

Originally posted by oliveoil
reply to post by Koka

 

I look forward to you answering who made your god then? Blind faith is neither an answer or a reason.

God is omnipotent.

Now then, perhaps you can answer my questions. Ive answered yours.

You have answered nothing, and you know full well that is the case, you delude yourself with a faith based answer, this conversation will go on long after you and I have departed this mortal coil. You will never be convinced of my view point as you have chosen not to question.

I am quite happy to say that I cannot answer the whys and wherefores of how we came into existence as neither of us can give an answer to such questions, and it will be a very long time before we begin to even fathom the answers.

You can take the option that makes living your life easier or you can continue to question, I choose the later, as blind faith only gives the delusion that you have an answered question.

You may be a very intelligent person, but spiritually you are lacking.

Maybe, maybe not, it depends on whether you restrict spirituality to only those that are willing to agree with your religious based view points.

[edit on 28-11-2009 by Koka]