What’s your Best EVIDENCE ‘FOR’ or ‘AGAINST’ God? Intellectual debate, please…

Originally posted by Anti-Evil
.....
so, yes I feel something of extreme importance is upon us. but I refuse
to be a slave to it. so I guess, I will see yall in the camps - until we are processed for consumption by aliens.
burp.. excuse me.

I, too, have the feeling of expectation....


Do you really think its going to be a negative thing or are you being silly here?

OT

This was supposed to be an intellectual debate and yet I see some people here who deny well established facts like evolution. Not good...

The god camp has 1 thing going for them and that is the "what happened before Big Bang" question. When you think about it, it sure as hell doesn't establish any of the book gods as real. How does A (in this case the beginning of the Universe) lead to B (something written 13,7 billion years later in a book) being true? It doesn't. The books are lies. That is a fact. None of the book gods exist. There is no great surveillance camera at the sky or a place where bad people go to when they die or something else as ridiculous. Nobody is watching..

[edit on 28-11-2009 by rhinoceros]

reply to post by rhinoceros

The books are lies. That is a fact. None of the book gods exist. There is no great surveillance camera at the sky or a place where bad people go to when they die or something else as ridiculous. Nobody is watching

Hey, fruitflies change over time. If you want to call it evolution, so be it.

This is still comes back to abiogenesis. Science has zip on that so far.

The books are lies. That is a fact. None of the book gods exist. There is no great surveillance camera at the sky or a place where bad people go to when they die or something else as ridiculous. Nobody is watching

That is your opinion, not a fact. No reasonable person would rule out the possibility of a Creator or creative force.

[edit on 28-11-2009 by dusty1]

[edit on 28-11-2009 by dusty1]

Symbiosis is evidence for a Creator.

Plants and animals work together to create a biosphere. I'm not talking one or two species but the whole thing works together.

Hey, almost like it was designed that way.

Originally posted by rhinoceros
This was supposed to be an intellectual debate and yet I see some people here who deny well established facts like evolution. Not good...

The god camp has 1 thing going for them and that is the "what happened before Big Bang" question. When you think about it, it sure as hell doesn't establish any of the book gods as real. How does A (in this case the beginning of the Universe) lead to B (something written 13,7 billion years later in a book) being true? It doesn't. The books are lies. That is a fact. None of the book gods exist. There is no great surveillance camera at the sky or a place where bad people go to when they die or something else as ridiculous. Nobody is watching..

[edit on 28-11-2009 by rhinoceros]

"god camp", good one

Well I guess I got my 'tent'..oh yeah, I must be following the Apostle Paul, he was a tent maker....


Evolution is a fact, ya right?

Book of lies, ya right?

Intellectual post above, ya right?

debate shows respect to both sides, my young friend...where did you go to school?

reply to post by OldThinker


Prophecy is the big one for me. Even in Isaiah it is said we will know God exists when He proves Himself through prophecy. It's exciting living in our time because we see things foretold long ago coming to pass in detail.

The second for me is the rational intelligibility of the universe. You do not get order from chaos but our universe is definitely very systematic. I don't see that occurring by itself.

And have you seen the Star of Bethlehem series? It goes far beyond just the Star of Bethlehem, though. It basically deals with the study of the Mazzaroth and how it is God's message to man.

Lots of stuff put together causes me to believe but the above three are the most fascinating to me.

reply to post by AshleyD


Thank you AshleyD, for stopping by...

Can the star series be seen online?

OT

OT, I have just 3 small pieces of "evidence"(if you really want to call it that).

First, the bible. Many will say that the bible isn't substantial evidence but it is Gods word and if you really want the best evidence, God's word is just that.

Secondly, the "trilemma". C.S. Lewis stated that Jesus was either Lord, liar, or lunatic. Jesus didn't fit the stereotypical bill of liar or lunatic, thus by process of elimination he becomes Lord. The life, death, and resurrection of Jesus is predicted by more than 100 unique Old Testament prophecies.

Third, existence. At the most basic level we exist as energy but we're confused on the macro level with this material existence. We are so complex and so is this place that we live. How could physical laws such as gravity and inertia have always existed or evolved? Everything is set in place as to work perfectly and demonstrate intelligence in every aspect of existence. It's not chaos, it is very well organised yet very complex.


Also, I think our 2nd law of thermodynamics is pretty good evidence to support a young earth and devolution rather than evolution. It seems as though with the exponential growth of population, increase in genetic disorders in humans, decrease in earths magnetic field and animal species extinctions, that the earth is devolving, not evolving. This is completely contradictory of anything besides creation or design.

A2D

reply to post by Agree2Disagree

A2D, I have been admiring your posts for a few months now!

Way to concisely show our skeptic friends the TRUTH

Doubt they are listening/watching/etc..after all my latest thread is over a week old....but ANYWAY, nice post!

reply to post by OldThinker


I think it is outside the realm of men to talk about god or gods as if they "know" god or the gods.

I akin it to ants making claims that they have humans all figured out. (Maybe these ants are smarter than we know? Ha.)

Anyway, I'll make an attempt to answer this. If there is a single god, and everything came from this god, then god is basically everything you see, not some human-looking figure who can fly and knows everything. This of course assumes god cannot make something out of nothing. I don't know what god's powers are, and likely neither do any of you.

I cannot get my head around (and I don't think humans are capable of)
that no matter what god you believe in, or what belief theory you have in relation to the universe and mankind, the final question can always be ''but who or what made that? Even if you believe in Jesus Christ and God Almighty,
where did he call home?

If this is the universe:

_ UNIVERSE___

if it began by a single atom or particle or proton or whatever scientists claim
where did that little spark originate and who created it?

How could something come out of nothing?

It really does hurt the brain to delve that deep.

Originally posted by glitchinmymatrix
reply to post by OldThinker

 

I think it is outside the realm of men to talk about god or gods as if they "know" god or the gods.

I akin it to ants making claims that they have humans all figured out. (Maybe these ants are smarter than we know? Ha.)

Anyway, I'll make an attempt to answer this. If there is a single god, and everything came from this god, then god is basically everything you see, not some human-looking figure who can fly and knows everything. This of course assumes god cannot make something out of nothing. I don't know what god's powers are, and likely neither do any of you.

nice analogy...

it works tho...

the HUMAN became an ANT...and lived among them.

OT

PS: ru saying an all powerful God CAN'T clearly communicate it he/she/it wants to? come on now!

Originally posted by pmexplorer
I cannot get my head around (and I don't think humans are capable of)
that no matter what god you believe in, or what belief theory you have in relation to the universe and mankind, the final question can always be ''but who or what made that? Even if you believe in Jesus Christ and God Almighty,
where did he call home?

If this is the universe:

_ UNIVERSE___

if it began by a single atom or particle or proton or whatever scientists claim
where did that little spark originate and who created it?

How could something come out of nothing?

It really does hurt the brain to delve that deep.

your question is TIME-BOUND...

slow down and think about it...

HE is not...

[edit on 30-11-2009 by OldThinker]

reply to post by rhinoceros


rhino?

You out there?

ru hiding from OT?

As an agnostic I don't feel you can know the truth either way.

In my opinion the best evidence against the existance of the god from the Christian bible is the holocaust.

Originally posted by norman619
As an agnostic I don't feel you can know the truth either way.

In my opinion the best evidence against the existance of the god from the Christian bible is the holocaust.

why would you say a JEW would kill Jews?

OT confused?

Originally posted by OldThinker
your question is TIME-BOUND...

slow down and think about it...

HE is not...

[edit on 30-11-2009 by OldThinker]

From what I understand of Einstein's theories....

For anything that has a constant velocity of lightspeed, time stops. In other words, it exists forever (eternally).

Additionally, the total four dimensional speed of anything that exists
equals lightspeed.

Therefore I conclude that everything that exists now, has indeed existed forever.

Apparently, everything changes over time (solid, liquid, gas, light). But nothing ever ceases to exist.

With this train of thought, I can easily believe that God is eternal.

As is everything (rocks, you, me, the new Britney Spears album, etc..).

Everything is "life". "Life" is eternal. God is "life".

Everything is God manifested.

We (you, me, and the rocks) are manifestations of our own collective consciousness and we exist forever.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not schizophrenic (I think), but admittedly posting while under the influence. (P.U.I.) So, I hope it's just temporary.

Then again, I pretty much think like that when sober too.


EDIT: My point is..... NOTHING is "TIME-BOUND".

[edit on 2-12-2009 by slimpickens93]

Originally posted by OldThinker
reply to post by rhinoceros

 

rhino?

You out there?

ru hiding from OT?

What?

The Bible was written by @70 men over a period of six thousand years.
There are 300 prophecies about Jesus Christ.
The top eight of these being fulfilled by one being has the odds of 1x10 to the 17 power.
This is like taking silver dollars and covering the state of Texas two feet deep in these silver dollars. Placing a red x on one of these dollars, blindfolding someone, and they pick the one marked with a red x.

The battle in science now days is between evolutionists and intelligent design proponents.

Name one thing that you know for absolute certain about evolution.
Question asked of numerous groups of scientists. Their reply, SILENCE.

Current thought in science is that it takes more faith to continue to believe evolution than creation.

Evolution is believing that a tornado sweeps through an airplane junkyard and assembles a complete 747 jumbo jet full of passengers, runway, flight attendants, fuel and flight plan.

Creation begins immediately prior to the big bang when God said "BANG".

Which requires more faith?

Apply the law of Parsimony.



[edit on 2-12-2009 by fmcanarney]

The best evidence i came up with is the comparison from todays point of view when people say they talk to god, and back then. today, if someone stated they talked to god, they are bared from society, and considered a loon, why not the ones who wrote the bible? is there some kind of double standard im missing?

for the god part, I think god comes from within yourself, and any form of conscious matter in the universe even if we see it or not.

I also looked to the geometry, and structure of space, and how it interacts with everything else. we radiate energy, others absorb that information. its an information loop, constantly moving, never in the same position in space/time.

It all started with a thought, it broke apart into an infinite amount of pieces, and those pieces are you and I today, part of the GOD-SELF.