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What’s your Best EVIDENCE ‘FOR’ or ‘AGAINST’ God? Intellectual debate, please…

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posted on Nov, 23 2009 @ 11:21 PM
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Originally posted by texas-pete

Correct, it is very unscientific, but a lot of theories we have built other theories on such as relativity, are held in high regard but as yet unproven. I wasn't for a minute saying that IF the universe is finite, IF the universe is oscillating THEN we in the future can disprove the laws of thermodynamics.
I am merely saying that for us to firmly pin the fate of the universe to a big crunch, with the build up of entropy being responsible, is a bit hasty.

I would like to believe in our lifetime we could once and for all settle the debates of light speed travel, black holes and finitity of the universe, but unfortunately I don't think it will happen.

Either way, what we are talking about is billions of years away, the more imminent dangers to humans are closer to home (sun and asteroids).

Lets just say this debate is best left to the scientists. You are very knowledgable for a 23 year old (I thought I was the only 23 year old who can hold an educated discussion!)

Thanks for your time


Pete


Absolutely.


I too thought that I was the only 23 year old who could hold my own in an intellectual debate at one time.

There are valid points on both sides but neither can be validated scientifically and so...."resistance is futile"

My moniker fits nicely. Agree2Disagree.




posted on Nov, 23 2009 @ 11:24 PM
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Originally posted by Agree2Disagree

My moniker fits nicely. Agree2Disagree.



Couldn't agree more. Pleasure talking with you.

Pete



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 01:22 AM
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My best argument which is both for and against it~

How isn't science a religion? The human genome has 23 paired chromosomes, 20,000-25,000 genes, and about 3 billion base pairs. Life has been on earth about 3-3.5 billion years. So in 3 billion years somehow 3 billion base pairs managed to line up in such a perfect way to allow me to type this message. That is a lot to swallow without a little faith.

There is so much we do not understand. Life is so extremely complex-let alone the universe. It is not the "god" in a normal sense. God to me is the order of the universe.

I believe in my own kind of god. I believe that there is a fundamental truth to this universe we haven't even began to understand. It is not a mythical god on a thrown. It is an order to the cosmos. The above quote points to the reality of the complexity all around us.

An order to things does not mean "the maker" is still with us, or that he cares. All that matters is that we are left with rules to follow. The whole universe has rules. We need to understand those to move forward-we need to understand the rules and then maybe we can debate god. Until we understand the universe around us and ourselves this debate is a no-winner. Of course, that assumes humans want to understand things (I believe we do). If not, then we may as well all build a rocket and jump into the sun as a sacrifice.


Just words....calm down. No harm. Peace and love.



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 03:30 AM
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Originally posted by s373r3d
My best argument which is both for and against it~

How isn't science a religion? The human genome has 23 paired chromosomes, 20,000-25,000 genes, and about 3 billion base pairs. Life has been on earth about 3-3.5 billion years. So in 3 billion years somehow 3 billion base pairs managed to line up in such a perfect way to allow me to type this message. That is a lot to swallow without a little faith.

There is so much we do not understand. Life is so extremely complex-let alone the universe. It is not the "god" in a normal sense. God to me is the order of the universe.

I believe in my own kind of god. I believe that there is a fundamental truth to this universe we haven't even began to understand. It is not a mythical god on a thrown. It is an order to the cosmos. The above quote points to the reality of the complexity all around us.

An order to things does not mean "the maker" is still with us, or that he cares. All that matters is that we are left with rules to follow. The whole universe has rules. We need to understand those to move forward-we need to understand the rules and then maybe we can debate god. Until we understand the universe around us and ourselves this debate is a no-winner. Of course, that assumes humans want to understand things (I believe we do). If not, then we may as well all build a rocket and jump into the sun as a sacrifice.


Just words....calm down. No harm. Peace and love.


You make a very valid point. there is no reason to debate the Existence of God. Maybe we all should just spend more time looking for answers instead of assuming what we know now is right and thats the end of it kind of stuff. only time will tell. Yesterday is History, tomorrow is a Mystery and today is a gift and thats way its called the present.



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 05:54 AM
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Originally posted by cormag

Originally posted by s373r3d
My best argument which is both for and against it~

How isn't science a religion? The human genome has 23 paired chromosomes, 20,000-25,000 genes, and about 3 billion base pairs. Life has been on earth about 3-3.5 billion years. So in 3 billion years somehow 3 billion base pairs managed to line up in such a perfect way to allow me to type this message. That is a lot to swallow without a little faith.

There is so much we do not understand. Life is so extremely complex-let alone the universe. It is not the "god" in a normal sense. God to me is the order of the universe.

I believe in my own kind of god. I believe that there is a fundamental truth to this universe we haven't even began to understand. It is not a mythical god on a thrown. It is an order to the cosmos. The above quote points to the reality of the complexity all around us.

An order to things does not mean "the maker" is still with us, or that he cares. All that matters is that we are left with rules to follow. The whole universe has rules. We need to understand those to move forward-we need to understand the rules and then maybe we can debate god. Until we understand the universe around us and ourselves this debate is a no-winner. Of course, that assumes humans want to understand things (I believe we do). If not, then we may as well all build a rocket and jump into the sun as a sacrifice.


Just words....calm down. No harm. Peace and love.


You make a very valid point. there is no reason to debate the Existence of God. Maybe we all should just spend more time looking for answers instead of assuming what we know now is right and thats the end of it kind of stuff. only time will tell. Yesterday is History, tomorrow is a Mystery and today is a gift and thats way its called the present.



Guys, thank you both for bringing the right balance to OT's thread!


My hope with this one was to/is to discuss this civily and with respect on both sides...so many times it digresses into personal attacks.

Thanks again for contributing to the quality of our threads.

OT honored to know you both (vitrtually of course :lol



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 05:56 AM
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Originally posted by texas-pete

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree

My moniker fits nicely. Agree2Disagree.



Couldn't agree more. Pleasure talking with you.

Pete



I enjoyed your dialog texas-pete and agree2disagree.

Great job!



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 06:22 AM
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Originally posted by karl 12
reply to post by OldThinker
 


There are so many gods and goddesses to choose from that it seems petty (and a little arrogant) to support just one particular team.

.....


Karl 12, thx for the post, but you didn't answer the question...did you not mean to?


OT



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 06:45 AM
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God? Nope.

Evolution? Nope.


Sorry!



[edit on 24-11-2009 by IrnBruFiend]



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 08:14 AM
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Originally posted by Muckster
Hmm... well I’m a Christian... I believe in God for many reasons... I have no scientific evidence for the existence of God... but then it wouldn’t be faith would it!

My belief in God is reinforced when I view the wonders of nature and consider its creation... You can’t chuck a stick of dynamite at a pile of rocks and then "boom" you have a house... it takes a creator to create... not a big bang!

My belief is reinforced because when I’m alone I don’t feel alone!

I went through a stage in my life when I rejected God... but something pulled me back... I never knew what that was until recently... I was lonely without God in my life!

For those of you that don’t believe... don’t judge me to hard... it may seem strange to you but for me, and millions of others, it works.

peace


Muckster, being lonely is a scary thing, for sure.

Thank you for your transparency here...

I guess CHANGED LIVES is CLEAR 'evidence' to the changed one...others, too, if they are close enough, I suspect?



OT



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 08:16 AM
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Originally posted by IrnBruFiend
God? Nope.

Evolution? Nope.


Sorry!



[edit on 24-11-2009 by IrnBruFiend]


No disrespect friend....

but that was a LAZZY post


You in a hurry maybe?


OT



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by s373r3d
......There is so much we do not understand. Life is so extremely complex-let alone the universe. It is not the "god" in a normal sense. God to me is the order of the universe......



OK, thx for the post...

Question? if God IS THE 'ORDER' in the universe, why is life so LOP-SIDED?

To me that's INTENT.

To me that's targeted purpose.

We have seen quite alot of space, certainly not ALL....and yet NO life, but on earth??


According to the Central Limit Theorem samples approximate the total, that is the mean of samples infers the mean of the whole...with that said, and order is God...logically (statistically at least) live should BE EVERYWHERE...???

Food for thought friend.


[edit on 24-11-2009 by OldThinker]



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 


Just based off our capabilities of studying the world around us, im comfortable accepting that we are a product of the universes curiosity about itself.



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 07:21 PM
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Originally posted by OldThinker

Originally posted by s373r3d
......There is so much we do not understand. Life is so extremely complex-let alone the universe. It is not the "god" in a normal sense. God to me is the order of the universe......



OK, thx for the post...

Question? if God IS THE 'ORDER' in the universe, why is life so LOP-SIDED?

To me that's INTENT.

To me that's targeted purpose.

We have seen quite alot of space, certainly not ALL....and yet NO life, but on earth??


According to the Central Limit Theorem samples approximate the total, that is the mean of samples infers the mean of the whole...with that said, and order is God...logically (statistically at least) live should BE EVERYWHERE...???

Food for thought friend.


Maybe life will be everywhere. We may just be on the beginning of the curve. It has taken time to populate the earth and become full of human life, perhaps the purpose is for the universe to be filled with humans, on habitable planets of course.

[edit on 24-11-2009 by OldThinker]


[edit on 24-11-2009 by dusty1]



posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 03:25 PM
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God is something that you can't define. It's within every human being, and thus we are all part of God. I'm not sure how many of you have read the Tao, but it basically describles what God is.

Some people say that if there is God, how come there is constant violence, destruction, greed, corruption... This makes many people lose belief in God. But if you really think about it, who is responsible for such harmful actions? People are responsible and not God. So why should he/she intervene when this was not designed by God? I think of you read Tao, it really explains many interesting things.



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by ReAlIzAtIoN
God is something that you can't define. It's within every human being, and thus we are all part of God. I'm not sure how many of you have read the Tao, but it basically describles what God is.

Some people say that if there is God, how come there is constant violence, destruction, greed, corruption... This makes many people lose belief in God. But if you really think about it, who is responsible for such harmful actions? People are responsible and not God. So why should he/she intervene when this was not designed by God? I think of you read Tao, it really explains many interesting things.




Thx for your thoughts,

Sounds like an interesting read

OT



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 06:03 PM
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Originally posted by dusty1
.......Maybe life will be everywhere. We may just be on the beginning of the curve.....



SETI would disagree...

They are the ones being PAID to find something...

AND YET NOTHING????



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 06:28 PM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 


You are assuming there is something for SETI to find. Imagine you are the first person to set foot on the North American Continent. You left your villiage months ago and assumed you would find new people. Only to realize your group is the first to find this new land. Someone has to be first, maybe we will be.



[edit on 26-11-2009 by dusty1]



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 07:26 PM
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The idea of a God cannot be proved nor disproved.
There is simply a huge lack of evidence for either.
However, our Universe is simply part of a much larger multi-verse that apparently cannot be measured by our current tools nor logic.
Therefore, seeing as how everything, and by this I mean being in general, is apparent, then a "God" must be.
The "God" in the bible, etc?
Most likely not exactly. Mankind has forever been striving to understand his world, and life as a whole, so therein we would LIKE to think not only are we special, but that our "God" is like we are, because anything outside of that box is simply an idea too "scary" to agree to.
Mankind loves to think we are top of the chain of order...that we are all powerful. With that notion, even though our God is believed to be all powerful beyond all terms of measure, he must also be like our image, otherwise it scares us.

A God there must be, rather it's simply a series of events, a human, or anything there between. Any disagreement is purely insane, seeing as how the word GOD is simply a title, NOT the creators real name.



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 07:55 PM
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As a low noticed member hopefully credit will be paid to me.

God is only of mind to us in a spiritual form. Spiritual is anything you want. (religion being different). In Philo 101 at my college we discussed that God does exist in a simplified manner. This said, I must say that my teacher was more of a greek-head than a God-head. He was more obsessed with the greeks than God and he even brought this up. Another thing is conciousness.

God=omni present/omni concious.

This single most important feature of ourselves as a concious being is that we can fallow time. A dog can't. Other forms of life can as well such as ET's. where I'm going with this is that what we have in ourselves as ourselves and our individuality makes us a piece of a gigantic concious. excuse my spelling. Is their spell check on this lol.

anywho my point won't be validated unless someone higher notices my way of thinking. Which is just a form of popularity.



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 07:58 PM
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reply to post by dusty1
 


Certainly is the universe order IS God, life would be more widespread, but it is not...would you acknowledge the point?



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