US-Afghanistan withdrawal in 6-Months?

reply to post by SLAYER69


If Obama does withdraw, which I see as unlikely, he would OWN the defeat and I don't think the Democrats would allow that.

The feet dragging probably is an attempt by Obama to create a disaster, via military means so as to further push legislations meant to bind rights to nothing.

I think Obama wants to withdraw, but he is looking for an excuse. Obama is gambling on this working, so his approval rating will not suffer as much. Voters can see right though this one.

[edit on 5-11-2009 by Pathos]

We can stay or withdraw, neither will change the corruption and lies from both sides of the fence. The outcome remains the same. Evil continues to consume a nation as it is led by those with no conscious nor compassion. Wrong has become their right as they believe their lies and seek power at the expense of the Innocent. Same theme over and over again all throughout history. "Their conscious being seared to the point of never returning". So stay or leave, still nations in distress because the blind continue to lead them into destruction. The whole dam world is becoming socialist and dependent on leaders that care nothing for their lives.

reply to post by Pathos



Isn't it odd how things move in the world of politics and war?

During the Bush Administration; if you protested the war you were called a

Terrorist sympathizer, commie, traitor etc.

Now the same people that were doing all the name calling are placing the

responsibility on the sitting president. And now some want to "cut and run" to use the term once so popular.

I wonder if Obama had of lived up to his promises and pull out early in his

first term; how he would be viewed now?

Wars started for corruption and greed of a few all wrapped up in patriotism and retribution, and sold just like breakfast cereal, automobiles, soap and toilet paper.

God help us!!!




[edit on 5-11-2009 by whaaa]

Based on my own research I see this "ultimatum" as a bogus threat.
We are not leaving. So no one should get up any false hopes.

Why do I say this?

Well because as far as karzai is concerned, if we did leave, he would be out of there with his tail in his ass, or face being paraded around with his head on a pole. he's a US puppet. Not a beloved leader.

BUT, we need to remember what the real reason we are in Afghanistan is for. The first reason is because it's the epicenter of our agenda to build energy corridors out of the caspian and turkmen gas fields to break the current monopoly russia has over europe and also to control what goes East.

The second reason is that the drug trade has never been better.

So as long as the US can maintain a military presence in afghnistan it will continue to do so (it's not their kids dying over there and they could care less), but if by some strange luck Karzai can calm things down and the taliban can be bought off (i am doubting it) and these pipelines can be built.

I think if anything, Karzai will be replaced if he does not meet this ultimatum, but we are never leaving afghanistan. At least not in our lifetimes, unless we are physically removed somehow.

reply to post by whaaa

reply to post by gaslaugh123

If you think about this the right way, Obama is taking a big gamble on this one element. Since the Afghans have been very vocal about not wanting us there, maybe this will give him the excuse we need to leave.

Afghanistan is falling into the same historical mold as Iraq. Even though both wars were necessary at on point in time, we escalated them way too late in history.

Gulf War (Iraq War I) should have been thorough in the 90s, and the Afghanistan War between 2001 and now should have been thorough.

Both wars are being fought too late in history.

U.N. to evacuate 600 staff from Afghanistan
Move follows last week’s deadly Taliban attack at guest house in Kabul
www.msnbc.msn.com...

KABUL - The United Nations said on Thursday it would temporarily evacuate hundreds of its international staff from Afghanistan due to deteriorating security, a sharp blow for Western efforts to stabilize the country.

Spokesman Aleem Siddique said the United Nations would relocate about 600 of its roughly 1,100 international staff, with some being moved to safer sites within Afghanistan and the rest withdrawn from the country temporarily.

The move, a week after five U.N. foreign staff were killed by militants in Kabul, is a blow for U.S. president Barack Obama's counter-insurgency war strategy, which foresees an influx of civilian assistance alongside extra troops.

Obama must have sent out word that 'we are' leaving Afghanistan. Its not longer a possibility. 'We are leaving' in 6-months. UN has already started to evacuate the region. Its not a question of 'if'. Its a question of 'how fast' and 'how orderly' they can get everyone out of Afghanistan. Six months is just about right. Hopefully, we will not relive the MIA hell of Vietnam.


[edit on 5-11-2009 by Pathos]

Obama would be smart to pull out of Afghanistan ASAP, it will score huge points with his electoral base.

He could just say we need to save money for the domestic problems we have at home.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


Excellent point and one I very rarely seen brought up. Where would we be right now if all the blood and treasure of these two wars had not been flushed down the toilet? Where would the economy be? What would our world look like right now if Gore had made it to office...

To me these are points where we as a people went down the wrong path and we began paying the price for it soon after.

Sorry for the wistful wishing, it neither toil or spin.

Oh, GOD! I hope this is true!

I think Obama wants to get out, but doesn't want to leave the country in turmoil. He's positioned in a very vicarious position. Of course, he will be gutted no matter what he does at this point. But hey, we can't fix it. There comes a time when we MUST realize that and cut our losses. This "hanging on" that we've been doing ever since Bin Laden left Afghanistan is ridiculous and we need to put the resources into OUR country! If anyone hasn't noticed, we need to pay some attention to our own well-being.

whaaa - It is interesting that the same people who were accusing Democrats of wanting to "cut and run" during the previous administration are not criticizing Obama for not doing exactly that. :shk:

We also need to remember that Senator Obama campaigned on the platform that Afghanistan was THE REAL war. So that must be taken into consideration as we study this out further and discuss his intentions.

Well this isn't a new development. Here is a part of an article I posted in another thread the 14th of last month it didn't get much attention then. I've been following this for some time.

AP sources: Afghan corruption worries McChrystal

A still-secret document by Army Gen. Stanley McChrystal that requests more troops is expected to be among the topics discussed Wednesday when President Barack Obama meets with his national security team to hash out a strategy for Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Even with additional troops, McChrystal concluded that corruption still could let terrorists turn Afghanistan back into a haven, according to officials at the Pentagon and White House.

His request outlines three options for additional troops — from as many as 80,000 to as few as 10,000 — but favors a compromise of 40,000 more forces, the officials said. They described it to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss it publicly.

reply to post by SLAYER69


I started a thread because this exact same scenario is happening in Iraq. It is being suggested that some of these bombings have been able to occur because the security forces have been infiltrated by insurgents.

How in the world can WE do anything to make the country stable if you can't even trust the government, let alone the security forces???

Here's the thread:

abovetopsecret.com

But here's the links to the articles in my thread (the thread ain't exactly hopping right now, apparently it's not that big of a deal if it's happening in Iraq. The Iraq war is soooooo last season! The Afghanistan war is the new Iraq war! lol)

Largest Iraq bombing in two years may have been an inside job

Iraq blasts an 'inside job'

Thanks for bringing this forth, Slayer. It just really goes to show that these wars are running their course and we can't correct thousands of years of unrest that are the result of DEEP seeded religious and ethnic issues. S&F

Originally posted by Pathos
Obama must have sent out word that 'we are' leaving Afghanistan. Its not longer a possibility. 'We are leaving' in 6-months. UN has already started to evacuate the region. Its not a question of 'if'. Its a question of 'how fast' and 'how orderly' they can get everyone out of Afghanistan. Six months is just about right. Hopefully, we will not relive the MIA hell of Vietnam.

The US wants to defeat al-Qaida in Afghanistan

Whisper it quietly. Contrary to popular opinion, the west has won the war in Afghanistan.

We've won. It was critical, after 9/11, that we went into Afghanistan to destroy the terrorist training camps that the plotters had attended … and we've done that: there are no camps left in Afghanistan, and all of the terror plots now come out of Pakistan.

Originally posted by arcnaver
We also need to remember that Senator Obama campaigned on the platform that Afghanistan was THE REAL war.

He didn't know anything about Afghanistan then compared to what he knows now. He wasn't privy to the real situation. People need to be skeptical when someone campaigns on stuff that they can't possibly have all the information on. He probably naively thought that we could "win" in Afghanistan (whatever that means), but has since learned a whole lot that has complicated the matter beyond our imaginations.

I do think he needs to be decisive, but not prematurely. There is still info coming in, but I have a feeling once he decides, he will commit. I just hope he decides to pull out. And soon...

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


That's what bothers me about some people in government not knowing all the facts. Especially those who represent the people. They are expected to make decisions to go to war or get out of a war, yet they are told "you don't have all the info so it's not your decision to make. Just trust us".

This is so wrong on many levels, namely that reasserts the idea that we have faction of the government operating on information only it knows and the rest of us don't; therefore, they do whatever they want regardless of how we feel about it because we don't have all the facts.

Seems like "withdrawal" is a mighty popular theme as of late.

A major rift in Britain's governing party over the war in Afghanistan opened up Wednesday when a former Foreign Office minister became the first senior British politician to call for a withdrawal of British troops.

Kim Howells, a Labour Party MP who chairs a parliamentary committee overseeing intelligence and security, published his article calling for withdrawal just ahead of news that five British troops were shot dead in southern Afghanistan. Analysts say his senior position, and the access to classified information it affords him, will likely give his words resonance among the broader British public.

www.csmonitor.com...

The United Nations today temporarily pulled half its international staff out of Afghanistan and threatened that a complete and permanent withdrawal could follow.

Amid an atmosphere of increasing gloom in Afghanistan, the UN Special Representative in Kabul, Kai Eide delivered a pointed warning to the government of Hamid Karzai.

“There is a belief among some, that the international community (presence) will continue whatever happens because of the strategic importance of Afghanistan,” he told a press conference this morning. “I would like to emphasise that that’s not true.”

www.timesonline.co.uk...

This means that at the very least two of the ten key allies of the US in Afghanistan will withdraw their troops within max. 1.5 years time. Germany, the third most important provider of troops, has also talked about withdrawal, as have several other important allies.

I expect it will not take long before the West’s coalition decides to withdraw altogether and hand the country back to the Taliban – especially considering America’s unwillingness to do what’s necessary to win this war.

www.poligazette.com...

Rather than doubling down on a strategy with objectives that could be unachievable, we should announce a flexible timetable to draw down our forces from Afghanistan. A timetable would defuse the perception that we are occupying that country, and help ensure that our presence does not fuel militancy and instability in the region.

Sen. Russ Feingold, D-Wis., is a member of the Senate Foreign Relations and Intelligence Committees.

host.madison.com...

The Australian government has asked military commanders to find ways to complete their missions in Afghanistan as soon as possible. The announcement is being seen as a clear hint that Canberra may pull its 1,500 troops out of Afghanistan earlier than expected.

www.voanews.com...

Originally posted by jam321
Seems like "withdrawal" is a mighty popular theme as of late.

I can't even put into words the utter relief I will have if these wars are ended. I've dreamed of the day since the day they began. I will take a day off of work because I will be so emotional. People at work will get sick of me talking about how happy I am.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by arcnaver
We also need to remember that Senator Obama campaigned on the platform that Afghanistan was THE REAL war.

He didn't know anything about Afghanistan then compared to what he knows now. He wasn't privy to the real situation. People need to be skeptical when someone campaigns on stuff that they can't possibly have all the information on. He probably naively thought that we could "win" in Afghanistan (whatever that means), but has since learned a whole lot that has complicated the matter beyond our imaginations.

Very valid point.

I was slammed hard during and after the last election for saying that as far as "CHANGE" goes there wouldn't be too much of that in the wars. People at the time didn't want to hear that. My argument then and proof of it now is the very real actions this present administration has demonstrated in the real world.

The day of his first real briefing as the President...

He sat behind the BIG desk and a few high ranking individuals behind closed doors informed him of the real situation and there was no change.

I've seen this happen all of my adult life over the past 30+ years. I'm surprised that people were surprised.

There is no winning in afganistan...never was.

The concept was to take out terrorist cells and attempt to prop up a stable government as best possible.

Seems like neither are achievable overall. Terrorism is a tactic, not a military branch...a war on terrorism is like a war on hiding behind barns.

The country has no product (besides drugs)...therefore it is a moneypit with no redeeming value, which is sort of important if your going to support a economy.

No solution here...just a perception of a endless pseduo-war.

Incidently, its a pity soo many people on ATS here have dayjobs...never met soo many people under one roof that knows how to run the country better than have studied and made it their lifes work on how to.

Almost as many know-it-all's as new york taxidrivers.