NorthEast IntelNet documentary: Morality of violent punishment~

reply to post by susp3kt


Nope I meant Iraq. Saddam Hussein kept Taliban and Al CIADA well away with his torture and secret police. He did not want his secular regime taken down by religious fanatics.

The only weapons of mass destruction, namely the gas used on the Kurds was supplied by the United States.

What about the electric chair? What about cluster bombs, land mines, nuclear weapons, dense inert metal explosives, tactical high energy lasers...etc. etc.

All horrible forms of death designed for those who's ideas we have difficulties with.

Isn't this the pot calling the kettle black?

reply to post by sumgai


People forget that the Bible calls for adulterers to be stoned to death. It also calls for female members of your household to be kept out in the barn with the cattle when they are menstruating. Christians don't actually follow ALL of the Bible though. Just those portions that please them.

[edit on 11-1-2009 by groingrinder]

No, personal attacks are not happening.

It is not about you against me, and whether or not I think one thing that contests what you think.

The point, was drawn out and mentioned.

Mutilation is not an acceptable form of punishment. No, I am open minded enough to consider and often agree with those who contest such treament.

I admit, to agreeing on two cases for allowing possible harch punishment. In cases of rape and child abuse of any kind. Those sorts of people, in my opinion ought to be punished ina manner of the victims choosing.

But that is just me, and I know some one some where has an opposing stance. But, can any of you honestly say that the extreme measures taken by those in the videos, is the world we want for our childrens future?

Grand childs future? Where they have to deal with the freaking f'ed up crap that we have and our parents had to and theirs and so on etc..

When, and where do we draw the line as a people, as humans who beleive in equal rights for all. Where woman have the right to be educated, instead of wrapped head to foot in a body curtain?

Honestly, present a counter arguement for this logic? Of inhumane sickness?!

There is no excuse, for any of it no one of the people involved in Gitmo, Uzbekistan or any other known and unknown occurances of human rights violations. They have no excuse for commiting such atrocities.

So, yes I have an agenda of pushing public awareness, and I feel that the more people know as individuals the more they will know as a whole.

Call me what you will, taunt and nit pick details of irrelevence. This is not a debate, on who's morals are better. We all know it is wrong, and if you disagree, then that is your right.

Just as it is mine to disagree with yours, and Jim bob with mine and every one elses but his.

Jim bobs or yours, my opinion or the neighbors, it doesn;t make what is any thing other than what it is, exept from our own perspectives.

Being outraged by atrocities is natural but singling out one culture in a time when this same culture is under the severest of attacks, millions killed, is quite irresponsible.

Sure there is allot wrong with the Muslim world but hey, we are slaughtering them, often in the most horrendous manner. And the hatred that fuels this fire is built on just the sort of inflammatory rhetoric that we see here in the subject of this thread.

[edit on 1-11-2009 by mrwiffler]

That was messed up. To be honest, i thought that they beheaded people differently. Why wouldn't they use a bigger blade or something? I'm more shocked than anything....

reply to post by flyingfish


That was ironic!!!

I often wonder how these men can sleep.
How can anyone do this to any living thing and feel good about it?
There is hell on earth.
It is beyond me why we just don't eliminate them.

You know what...Americans should be there fighting. Terrorist should be there beheading each other and everybody should be fighting everybody..

I'm gonna close the shades, pull the covers a little further over my head and reside in my own little world for a while because this world is not making any sence anymore........

Peace

My thoughts go out to all human beings at the mercy of a butcher. No matter what thoughts you have about this sort of killing, in the end it is certain death and a dishonorable one at that. In my honest opinion no one is right to kill someone against their power and will to defend themselves.

My only true belief about those that carry out these atrocities, whether they're fighting for a cause; politically or religious.

He that lives by the sword shall die by the sword!

and one of my favourite quotes by Henry Louis Mencken, I apply to the OP for bringing this information to our attention:

“I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie. I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave. And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant.”

Thank you for posting.

Kindest regards,
E.T

reply to post by ADVISOR


Had to force myself to watch that, got to the 3rd guy to become decapitated and I just switched it off. Unbelievably sick! I hope all of these bastards who commited these disgusting & sickening crimes against humanity get what they deserve one day.

Whilst I would not wish anyone to have to watch this video, people should be at least aware that this goes on.

The victims may even be conciously aware for a short while:

Conscious after decapitation?

In the heyday of the guillotine during the French Revolution, it is said that many of the condemned were asked to blink for as long as possible after decapitation. While many reportedly did not blink at all, some complied for as long as thirty seconds. Still other observations describe much more specific reactions to stimuli following beheading. Consider the case of Languille, a convicted murderer who was guillotined in France. He was observed by Dr. Beaurieux during his execution at 5:30am on June 28th, 1905. As written in Archives d'Anthropologie Criminelle, here are the doctor's observations:

Here, then, is what I was able to note immediately after the decapitation: the eyelids and lips of the guillotined man worked in irregularly rhythmic contractions for about five or six seconds … I waited for several seconds. The spasmodic movements ceased.

The face relaxed, the lids half closed on the eyeballs, leaving only the white of the conjunctiva visible, exactly as in the dying whom we have occasion to see every day in the exercise of our profession, or as in those just dead.

It was then that I called in a strong, sharp voice: 'Languille!' I saw the eyelids slowly lift up, without any spasmodic contractions … Next Languille's eyes very definitely fixed themselves on mine and the pupils focused themselves … After several seconds, the eyelids closed again, slowly and evenly, and the head took on the same appearance as it had had before I called out.

[edit on 1-11-2009 by john124]

It's their country, their belief system, their law. Leave them to it.

Why should the blood of the American Soldiers be shed over THEIR country, THEIR belief system?

Why?

Because the Afghanistan war is NOT about saving lives and putting and end to the taking of heads!

It’s about money, and drugs, and about more money and more drugs, a foothold in the East, and things we’ll never even know about, but it’s not about people getting their heads lopped off...


So, Thank you for posting grizzly propaganda at it’s best, and with perfect timing.

Timing to (try and) counter articles such as: U.S. official resigns over Afghan war

My God, what happened to denying ignorance?

Anyone who believes the war in Afghanistan is all about saving lives has their head so buried in the sand it’s beyond comprehension.

This is what the war is about...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e34024683d58.jpg[/atsimg]

Try researching some facts instead of falling back on sensationalism and propaganda.

Under Taliban rule Afghanistan almost eradicated it’s poppy industry.

The question is why. Under Taliban rule, which began in the late 1990s, Afghanistan just about kicked the growing habit by 2001. After five years the Taliban is slipping back in, but poppy production has grown by leaps and bounds.

source

Poppy production has skyrocketed since the 2001 U.S. invasion.

The dilemma of Afghanistan's poppy production has long bedeviled civilian and military strategists. The crop makes up 90% of the world's opium, which is used to make heroin, and a third of the nation's gross domestic product, according to the United Nations. Opium profits fuel the insurgency, but so does destroying the poppy crops of poor farmers, says Lt. Col. John Glaze, whose 2007 report for the Army War College argued against eradication.

"We have gotten nothing out of it — nothing," he said. "It is true that some … opium crop has been destroyed, but it hasn't hurt the Taliban one iota. We're often pushing farmers into the Taliban hands."

source USA Today

Michael Ruppert wrote: “The Bush family's involvement in drug-running is an open secret, but Dick Cheney's direct link to a global drug pipeline through a US construction company is less well known.”

“Halliburton Corporation's Brown & Root is one of the major components of the Bush-Cheney Drug Empire. The success of Bush Vice-Presidential running mate Richard Cheney at leading Halliburton, Inc.

“KBR was awarded a $100 million contract in 2002 to build a new U.S. embassy in Kabul, Afghanistan, from the State Department.”

source

This is especially true for Halliburton's most famous subsidiary, heavy construction and oil giant, Brown and Root. A deeper look into history reveals that Brown and Root's past as well as the past of Dick Cheney himself, connect to the international drug trade on more than one occasion and in more than one way.

Furthermore, the relationships between key institutions, players and the Bushes themselves suggest that under a George "W" administration the Bush family and its allies may well be able, using Brown and Root as the operational interface, to control the drug trade all the way from Medellin to Moscow.

And this isn’t the first war Brown Root profited from. (Vietnam)

It is clear that everywhere there is oil there is Brown and Root. But increasingly, everywhere there is war or insurrection there is Brown and Root also. From Bosnia and Kosovo, to Chechnya, to Rwanda, to Burma, to Pakistan, to Laos, to Vietnam, to Indonesia, to Iran to Libya to Mexico to Colombia, Brown and Root's traditional operations have expanded from heavy construction to include the provision of logistical support for the U.S. military.

source

Want to hear the rest of the story?

If you’re interested in the truth and not exploitative propaganda hype and gore - take a read at the real evil here.

Read: THE BUSH-CHENEY DRUG EMPIRE

and Halliburton Watch: www.halliburtonwatch.org...

Tells you all you need to know - the TRUTH - though I’m sure even that is only half the story, the full truth not only time will tell...

peace

Let me add - IMO it’s nothing but false emotionalism and to put it frankly, that you’re lying to yourself and others if your *heart bleeds* over these videos.

You’re being SUCKERED into feeling the way you do - for exactly the reasons the person who initiated this tape wanted (not the OP).

To divert you from the TRUTH and BLIND you to what the real evil is!

Stop being a bunch of SUCKERS.

No one form the West can do anything about this.

So stop your blubbering and using this as an emotional epiphany.

You really care about you fellow man? Go do something about it.

Quit crying for someone you don’t know, that reached an end you’ve no reason to even pretend to know the *whys* over (grizzly as it might be) and wake up!

IMO - next time you sit down to a full meal - cry over your own country men women and children that are going to bed hungry tonight instead of pooling tears in useless emotionalism brought on by propaganda and sensationalism.

peace

reply to post by silo13


As always Silo...

Now, were i come from we don't agree on the death penalty. Strapping somebody to a chair or table and pull a switch or inject some sh*t...

I couldn't find any footage but i hear they even fry mentaly challenged people over there....

So we are forming a fighting force overhere to free those poor people from your so called "death row"....

.......sorry about that!!

It's all relative, as i said before, i'm ignoring the propaganda and going back to bed.....

Peace

Originally posted by sumgai


THE OPPOSING VIEW:

How else are you supposed to deter people from stealing from others?

Are you saying that it's ok for your wife to sleep with another man behind your back and basically **** on your wedding vows?

I personally don't believe in capital punishment, but who are we to judge what happens in another man's country?
Doesn't the U.S. like to imprison people for getting high?

BTW, I've seen beheading videos before. I've also seen the Daniel Pearl video. But I've also seen pictures of U.S. trained Nicaraguan Death Squads dragging the bodies of women and children (including babies) through villages tied to the bumper of jeeps/SUVs by their intestines. There's also Abu Grahib (sp)?.

So Americans fighting is ok as long as we haven't done anything heinous RECENTLY?

Those are my thoughts on that. Let the personal attacks begin.

Nicaraguan Death Squads? US trained ones at that? U2U the video links to me for those. I'll have to see 'em to believe it. I have a more than passing familiarity with the area, and the Nicaraguan Wars, and that''s the first I've heard of that.

I just HAVE to see what it is that makes you think there ever were such things.

Originally posted by groingrinder
reply to post by susp3kt

 

Nope I meant Iraq. Saddam Hussein kept Taliban and Al CIADA well away with his torture and secret police. He did not want his secular regime taken down by religious fanatics.

The only weapons of mass destruction, namely the gas used on the Kurds was supplied by the United States.

Hate to bust yer bubble, but there aren't any Taliban in Iraq. They're all pinned down in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

It's called "containment".

Dear Silo13

I agree and disagree with your comments. Granted this is horrific, but so is bombing innocent civilians (mostly children) who cannot defend themselves but are caught in the middle of a war they did not choose to be apart of.

However, killing is killing and there is no right way about it. I totally disagree with Shia Law but I also totally disagree with the use of advanced weapons; tested and used in wars such as Afghanistan and Iraq.

I agree with your point that whoever created the video was wanting to get a negative (or positive, whichever way you look at it) emotional response from the viewer.

The question to everyone who feels sickened by this video is to ask yourself, is it right to go to war killing innocent people just because of one person being beheaded. Probably not but then it is your own moral judgement.

I disagree with the beheading of people as I see it as inhumane. But then what is worse? Beheading one person or maiming / killing thousands of children?

At this point I don't know the right answer only my moral opinion is that one beheaded person (for which you do not know the true crime) does not justify going to war and killing millions of children. And I would like to bring to everyone's attention; a friend I know works for a charity called WARchild, helping to protect those affected by conflict around the world. Please at least have a look at this website
WARchild

This is a highly topical subject, and I think you have to ask yourselves what is better? A few people dying for the reason and action to go to war and killing millions. Or saving millions by not going to war and helping those countries by peaceful means of education and guidance while such butcher of individuals continues.

Just my thoughts.
Kindest regards,
E.T

reply to post by eclectic.thoughts
Exactly.
We do agree.

The problem is, if it wasn’t for the true evil - IMO - those innocent children would not be dying.

And yes, I do feel for the innocent - regardless of where they are in the world, of course I do.

And I do feel for the ones being beheaded - how could I not - I’m not a monster.

But I will not let some pimped out video blind me to the truth!

The truth that the USA is NOT in Afghanistan to save lives!

From the soldiers point of view I really think they believe that God love ‘em and more power to them - the soldiers.

But DAMN the establishment and their lies and the blood that is on their hands! Not only the blood of the decapitated, and the innocent, but the blood of their own sons and daughters in the unending race for more gain, more wealth more power!

If they are in Afghanistan to save the innocent? Where were they then, or even now in the ongoing genocide in the Congo?

What about the 400,000 killed - hacked up with machetes - 2.4 million displaced... And the USA did nothing!

Because there was no gain in those areas.
No financial gain to go in and *save* the world, there.

peace and thanks for your reply

Damn - caught out by the preview button again. why does it say preview when all it does is delete what you've just spent an hour typing up?
[edit on 1-11-2009 by JohnJasper]

[edit on 1-11-2009 by JohnJasper]

reply to post by john124


Hello

Whilst I would not wish anyone to have to watch this video, people should be at least aware that this goes on.

I wholeheartedly agree with you. I cannot emphasize how important it is to know that people are continually sheltered from the realities of what is happening, and that they must educate themselves. Nothing can be said to justify this barbaric behaviour, and America is sanitized and kept from it because of the horror that it invokes.

This is their religion, their belief, that must happen to all infidels. That means *anyone* that refuses to follow their religion. That means most of us.

I do believe that if more people did watch, and knew, and understood, people who continue to speak PC about radical Islam would immediately change their minds. Knowing this is happening is a far stretch from actually seeing it take place, and the realization this is not a movie, this is real.

I chose to show my husband the Daniel Pearl video because I didn't think he "got it". I told him what it was, and he opted to view it. After I did, he sat in stunned silence for a long time. He later told me that while he "knew" in his mind that it was happening, he felt so totally different after he actually saw it with his own eyes.

Like I see it said here so often, seeing is believing.

If you choose to educate yourselves in the truth that is hidden from you in America, the click on this link. I doubt people realize there have been hundreds, if not thousands of beheadings, and there are probably more than 75 that have been taped. This site has many of them.

WARNING: There are graphic links on that page, but not the link I provided. By going there you will not see anything extreme, but their page is loaded with reality links on the left column, so choose at your own discretion. Sometimes, the truth of things is very hard to swallow.

*Link removed by poster due to possible T&C issues. I wasn't aware I couldn't post that link. Guess it is a good idea to remind ourselves of the T&C's from time to time.




[edit on 1-11-2009 by Libertygal]

War Child was founded upon a fundamental goal: to advance the cause of peace through investing hope in the lives of children caught up in the horrors of war.

Horrors of war, seeing ones sister, mother and or aunt punished under extremist Islamic law. Reasons could vary from being looked upon by a westerner, and being caught looking back. Or, going out side with out being properly garbed or even un escorted.

It is not, and I repeat not one beheading or one unknown crime commited by a suspected criminal. I was in Iraq, Diyala Province 07 1st Cav Div, 6th Squadron 9th Regiment. Personally spoke with the locals, my Arabic is passable enought hat they thought I was an interpreter.

We had noted from the locals reports of how their families, were being punished for some thing the extremists percieved as a violation of their (the extremists) interpretation of their relgious doctrine.

Seen it, been there and know first hand how those people had no ability to defend themselves from the oppresion of the extremist.

So what does that have to do witht he Afghanistan war, which financially yes is lucrative for the CIA and any one else making money off the poor indiginious peole of Afganistan. they have been since the first Afghan war, when we financed the before.

So why is it we are once again involved, because we bailed on them after the fall of the Soviet Union. We vowed to be there and we cut and ran. We left it and they blame us for the abandonment.

So, no the war is not just about the inhumane atrocities, or the largest opium crops, or about past trangressions. It is about all of the above, and other factors the public may never know.

Once again, where do we as a species, draw the line and remind ourselves and each other, what it means to be human.

That is no future for any child, or adult to live in fear of fanatical islamic zealots, murdering a family in front of them.

There is no excuse, religious especially. There have been too many wars fought over religious BS. That is no reason or excuse to turn our backs or ignore it.

If we or any one ignores the horrific, not just in Iraq, or Afghanistan consider Africa where what was it UN peace keepers watched genocide with out interceding. Child warriors forced into enslaved service. The Somalia situation, both have "warchildren", and mutilations.

It is not Afghanistan, Iraq and Somalia thrown in for good measure. There are more, and only the tip of the ice berg. Thisis far from isolated events, it is and was common place every day. People live in fear of the threats daily.

All the right reasons are being tarnished by all the wrong reasons. Corrupted motivation for personal gain, has disillusioned the actual purpose.

Those people, not their tyranical leader controlled puppet government, once upon a time asked us and our allies for help.

What they got in return, was con mans smile up front, and a knife in the back. We accepted their request, promising them that we have had their best interest at heart.





When, when will we draw the line?

Here are some verses from the Quran and their correlation to the ten commandments "Thy Shall Not Kill" ...

"You shall not kill any person - for God has made life sacred - except in the course of justice. If one is killed unjustly, then we give his heir authority to enforce justice. Thus, he shall not exceed the limits in avenging the murder, he will be helped."(17:33)

anyone who murders any person who had not committed murder or horrendous crimes, it shall be as if he murdered all the people. (5:32)