Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

Originally posted by dreamseeker
I remember it because I studied it in a history class. I also did a study of it in the begginning of this swine flu. I thought the swine flu was similar to the spanish flu which was also an H1n1. I really hoped I was wrong and I still hope that.

No, what they are calling H1N1 today is not near as virulent as the 1918 Spanish Flu (also H1N1) was but this thing in the Ukraine sure does sound like the 1918 version's description, doesn't it?

[edit on 2/11/2009 by Iamonlyhuman]

Originally posted by ecoparity

Originally posted by AceWombat04
Actually, the OP posted earlier that people are being given antibiotics if they come down with this. Whether that's because it's actually pneumonic plague, because they have some other secondary cause of pneumonia (which isn't uncommon with the flu by any means,) or simply a prophylactic measure, I don't know.

They need to distribute them to everyone prior to getting sick in addition to treating the people already infected. Its standard treatment to give antibiotics to swine flu victims who display any moderate to severe respiratory symptoms also due to the high number of secondary pneumonia cases.

They're reporting a quarter million people as infected, for that to be the plague is just not possible, IMO. Maybe if they were spraying plague out of airplanes instead of aeroclaving.

OH well, we should know in a few days for sure. If most of the infected end up dying then it will most likely be a plague, the swine flu fatality rate isn't nearly as high. Untreated plague has a 100 percent death rate.

Hasn't it already surpassed the swine flu mortality rate? If it has a 100 percent mortality rate what does that mean for the world? The whole world isn't going to die rate because the plague would probably not spread very far due to the high mortality rate and how fast it kills?

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


H1N1 swine flu is the 1918 flu. Where have you been? I don't mean any offense but that's been a known fact since April.

Originally posted by ecoparity
reply to post by nikiano

 

Have you looked at this map yet? Flutracker

Thats a H1N1 tracker, not a pneumatic plague tracker.
There is no "ukrainian-'Baxter'-plague" tracker yet. Maybe someone will be so kind to build one asap, as somebody else already has suggested.

Ko3

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman

Originally posted by dreamseeker
I remember it because I studied it in a history class. I also did a study of it in the begginning of this swine flu. I thought the swine flu was similar to the spanish flu which was also an H1n1. I really hoped I was wrong and I still hope that.

No, what they are calling H1N1 today is not near as virulent as the 1918 Spanish Flu (also H1N1) was but this thing in the Ukraine sure does sound like the 1918 version's description, doesn't it?

[edit on 2/11/2009 by Iamonlyhuman]

'
SO what is happening in the Urkarine is not h1n1? I am confused.

Originally posted by ecoparity
reply to post by former_ussr

 

If you guys really believe the outbreak is pneumonic plague I'd work overtime to obtain some antibiotics and start taking them right away. That's the modern medical cure and preventative for pneumonic plague.

I'm guessing the government has not started distributing those antibiotics to the public yet for some reason. . .

Lucky You, if You can do something like that,
but still local doctors gave the strongest antibiotics to those who died, and it didnt help.

Today i got this idea, that in 1986 when Chornobyl nuclear plant explode,
we didnt hear anything for a week or more.

I have feeling they know more but dont want to say.

Any way I'm optimistic, eating a lot of onions and garlic,

Another thing that buggs me - is that my bosses in Denmark (I run their factory localy) didnt hear a thing
about situation in UKraine untill this morning.

Its either blocking of this info by MSM.
or simply its not worth to put it out.

But the outcomes of these two options could be very-very different.

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman

Originally posted by dreamseeker
I remember it because I studied it in a history class. I also did a study of it in the begginning of this swine flu. I thought the swine flu was similar to the spanish flu which was also an H1n1. I really hoped I was wrong and I still hope that.

No, what they are calling H1N1 today is not near as virulent as the 1918 Spanish Flu (also H1N1) was but this thing in the Ukraine sure does sound like the 1918 version's description, doesn't it?

[edit on 2/11/2009 by Iamonlyhuman]

The 1918 flu wasn't very deadly until the second and third outbreak waves. From a genetic standpoint its the same virus, right down to the avian flu component.

Originally posted by ecoparity
reply to post by nikiano

 

Right but the source code for the google mapping is open sourced w/ a creative commons license. You should be able to obtain it and plug in your own data to make your own version of it. I don't think it will require any coding, just script editing.

Ah, thank you. I'll see if I can figure it out.

Originally posted by ecoparity
reply to post by Iamonlyhuman

 

H1N1 swine flu is the 1918 flu. Where have you been? I don't mean any offense but that's been a known fact since April.

if this is the case then how could we not panic? We are now dealing with 2 viruses; the H1N1 and this new urkarine plague!

www.speroforum.com...

Seoul – Seoul could raise alert level to red, the highest on its four-level-tier, because of the rapid spread of the virus across the country. An official announcement will be made tomorrow afternoon. The government urges the public to remain calm, but health officials say the trend will continue for the next two to three weeks. In the meantime, China and Muslim countries are undertaking a vaccination campaign against the swine flu ahead of Hajj, the major pilgrimage to Makkah set for 25-30 November.
South Korea’s Ministry of Health, Welfare and Family said that an average of 8,857 people was confirmed catching the flu every day last week, twice as many as the 4,420 tallied the week before.

Originally posted by ecoparity

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman

Originally posted by dreamseeker
I remember it because I studied it in a history class. I also did a study of it in the begginning of this swine flu. I thought the swine flu was similar to the spanish flu which was also an H1n1. I really hoped I was wrong and I still hope that.

No, what they are calling H1N1 today is not near as virulent as the 1918 Spanish Flu (also H1N1) was but this thing in the Ukraine sure does sound like the 1918 version's description, doesn't it?

[edit on 2/11/2009 by Iamonlyhuman]

The 1918 flu wasn't very deadly until the second and third outbreak waves. From a genetic standpoint its the same virus, right down to the avian flu component.

I remember reading about the avain compentent and that is what made it so deadly. The 1918 flu was horrible even if it had only a 2.5% mortality rate. I heard it could kill in less than a day. This terrifies me.

It's possible that the reports of pneumonic plague are true, there was an outbreak in northwest China recently. However, it CAN be controlled and treated, if both are done aggressively and early:


abcnews.go.com...

news.xinhuanet.com...

www.cbc.ca...

reply to post by dreamseeker


60 dead is not a high fatality rate by any means unless Ukraine has a population of 120 people total.

The pneumonic plague is 100 percent fatal if its not treated. Luckily modern antibiotics are effective against it. Besides the many obvious reasons I've listed why this isn't pneumonic plague in Ukraine I submit the following:

Pneumonic plague is not something you go to bed at home to recover from. With a quarter million people infected the hospitals would be overwhelmed and the devastation would be more than obvious to the people living there.

We've had reports that antibiotics were given to patients and they still died.
Also the rapid deaths (within a single day) do not match the plague, that does match with swine flu deaths.

If there is a known plague outbreak the government would be distributing antibiotics to everyone, sick or not and doing so in a big hurry. For there to be an outbreak that large is just completely impossible unless there's been a bioweapon release or all of Ukraine has returned to middle ages living in dirt hovels full of rodents.

The more I think it over the more ridiculous it gets. There is no healthcare system in the entire World that could deal with a quarter million plague victims. They would be shut down in 24 hours time and martial law would already be in effect. I know its easy to theorize from thousands of miles away but if you really look at what a plague outbreak that large would look like this just isn't it.

We are really living in really strange times. How are we ever going to recover from our recession if we are hit with some new pandemic. I hope to god it can stay contained. Too much t worry about right now!

Originally posted by dreamseeker

Originally posted by ecoparity

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman

Originally posted by dreamseeker
I remember it because I studied it in a history class. I also did a study of it in the begginning of this swine flu. I thought the swine flu was similar to the spanish flu which was also an H1n1. I really hoped I was wrong and I still hope that.

No, what they are calling H1N1 today is not near as virulent as the 1918 Spanish Flu (also H1N1) was but this thing in the Ukraine sure does sound like the 1918 version's description, doesn't it?

The 1918 flu wasn't very deadly until the second and third outbreak waves. From a genetic standpoint its the same virus, right down to the avian flu component.

I remember reading about the avain compentent and that is what made it so deadly. The 1918 flu was horrible even if it had only a 2.5% mortality rate. I heard it could kill in less than a day. This terrifies me.

Depends on which mortality rate you quote...
en.wikipedia.org...

The global mortality rate from the 1918/1919 pandemic is not known, but it is estimated that 10% to 20% of those who were infected died. With about a third of the world population infected, this case-fatality ratio means that 3% to 6% of the entire global population died.[12] Influenza may have killed as many as 25 million in its first 25 weeks. Older estimates say it killed 40–50 million people[4] while current estimates say 50—100 million people worldwide were killed.[13] This pandemic has been described as "the greatest medical holocaust in history" and may have killed more people than the Black Death.

[edit on 2/11/2009 by Iamonlyhuman]

reply to post by apacheman


Yes and the total fatalities?

3

Resurrecting the 1918 plague to "study it" was about as smart as bringing King Kong back to New York, or resurrecting the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park. I thought real scientists were smarter than those in fiction, but apparently not.

I think one poster earlier mentioned that a lot of microbiologists have gone missing or have been killed lately....

Hmmmm....this whole scenario makes me think of a typical Ian Flemming/James Bond plot:

Dr. Evil gathers up microbiologists around the world to help him resurrect the 1918 influenza under the guise of "real research"....then succeeds in killing them off one by one, so only he knows the truth of what happened. One of the microbiologists gets as far as calling into a radio show to warn the world about what is happening in the Ukraine facility....but he gets sent to a mental facility. Two months later....the H1N1 flu and an unknown pneumonic plague erupts in the Ukraine.





[edit on 2-11-2009 by nikiano]

FYI: ~I believe~ when the first outbreaks were noted in Southern California this spring a dual regime was implemented...Antibiotics and Antivirals...as the Secondary Infections were noted even back that long ago...

reply to post by ecoparity


The UK, USA and Canda have been working on a plague vaccine for a while and Porton Down was said to have created a vaccine in 2001 while a joint agreement was signed in 2005.. source

A joint, multi-nation project arrangement between the U.S. Department of Defense (DoD), the Department of National Defence of Canada, and the Secretary of State for Defense of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland was announced today for the cooperative development of a vaccine to protect against plague. Under this agreement, the three nations will work together to develop and produce a plague vaccine that will ultimately be licensed for human use.

The defense establishments of the United States and the U.K. have each maintained active plague vaccine research and development efforts since the 1990s. Relevant plague vaccine development information has been shared among the U.S., U.K., and Canada under provisions of a memorandum of understanding between the three nations since 2000.

So along with Anti-Biotics, we do have a vaccine capable of neutralising this as a threat (but with a 10% chance of side effects)

But I do feel this is looking like a mutated H1N1 virus here, given the explosion of numbers, this is very worrying.

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman

Originally posted by dreamseeker

Originally posted by ecoparity

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman

Originally posted by dreamseeker
I remember it because I studied it in a history class. I also did a study of it in the begginning of this swine flu. I thought the swine flu was similar to the spanish flu which was also an H1n1. I really hoped I was wrong and I still hope that.

No, what they are calling H1N1 today is not near as virulent as the 1918 Spanish Flu (also H1N1) was but this thing in the Ukraine sure does sound like the 1918 version's description, doesn't it?

The 1918 flu wasn't very deadly until the second and third outbreak waves. From a genetic standpoint its the same virus, right down to the avian flu component.

I remember reading about the avain compentent and that is what made it so deadly. The 1918 flu was horrible even if it had only a 2.5% mortality rate. I heard it could kill in less than a day. This terrifies me.

Depends on which mortality rate you quote...
en.wikipedia.org...

The global mortality rate from the 1918/1919 pandemic is not known, but it is estimated that 10% to 20% of those who were infected died. With about a third of the world population infected, this case-fatality ratio means that 3% to 6% of the entire global population died.[12] Influenza may have killed as many as 25 million in its first 25 weeks. Older estimates say it killed 40–50 million people[4] while current estimates say 50—100 million people worldwide were killed.[13] This pandemic has been described as "the greatest medical holocaust in history" and may have killed more people than the Black Death.

[edit on 2/11/2009 by Iamonlyhuman]

Well if this is the case then it can't be another 1918 type pandemic. How do we live? are we expected to pay bills?" If we don't leave because so many people are dying how can people support themselves. It is so scary.